anyone else looking forward to the impending collapse of the US economy?

[datasuspect]

it will be terrible for those who are heavily credit-leveraged and accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but in other ways, it will potentially be a great equalizer. maybe more people will see that they have absolutely nothing in common with the ultra rich.

maybe they will realize that an SUV and a mcmansion doesn't necessarily make them part of the "build wealth through speculation and capital gains" class.

it will suck for people who had better access to the money/debt spigot, but once it turns off, they will realize they were closer to "us," the scary economic "other" that they worked so hard to distance themselves from.

i guess the cows are coming home to roost. or something.

if anyone wants to learn how to catch and prepare pigeons and squirrels, i will be bartering lessons for flour and honey.

[Critters2]

1. I think there are important lessons about to be learned,

but it will be a difficult way to learn 'em.

[datasuspect]

2. yep

maybe it will make people less smug.

[Mike03]

38. Your OP is very important. Maybe it would be even more

thoroughly responded to if you cross posted it on GD. Seriously, this is a crucial topic, not a subject for the lounge alone.

[TZ]

3. Sorry, being unemploeyed and uninsured last year

makes me sympathize with anyone who loses their jobs. I'm sorry, but I DO NOT take glee in the suffering of others.
If you think its only the wealthy who are being hurt by this you are in the wrong.
Besides my father is one of the "wealthy". Do you honestly think I take any pleasure in knowing that his pension is going to pieces with the stock market crashing?!
Jeezus fucking christ. Empathy anyone?

[datasuspect]

7. there's plenty of suffering to go around

what you do with it is the most important thing.

sometimes global economic crisis can be cathartic and cleansing. whereas someone losing their debt-based and speculation driven pension might see it as great calamity, another person might see it as an opportunity to learn more about themselves and possibly come out stronger. where you see suffering, i see opportunities to learn. that's why i am an eternal optimist.

empathy, sympathy notwithstanding, if there is something that can make the majority of people see commonalities between themselves, it is abject poverty.

[TZ]

9. My dad's 68 has Parkinson's

and his pension depends on how well GE (whom he worked for for 30 years). So for him "abject poverty" would not be a "learning experience for him" it would likely be a death sentence!!

[Dave_Fl_50]

42. Thank you. That's the answer he deserved.

[mondo joe]

85. How many real lives are you willing to sacrifice in pursuit of your goal?

[leeroysphitz]

4. Even if a given transaction is done through barter you are still obligated

to report that incometo the IRS with an estimated dollar value and pay your fair share.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:idaUjURD5OoJ:www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html+IRS+barter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Just so's you know... :)

[datasuspect]

8. there will be two types of people:

1. the poor

2. the poor who are in prison

the IRS? shit, they know where i am.

[leeroysphitz]

17. Yes. They do. n/t

[Yavin4]

45. The Poor In Prison Will Be Better Off

At least they'll get to eat and have some semblance of health care.

[DS1]

5. no, not really

sure, some people could use a correction, unfortunately it'll affect everyone

[datasuspect]

11. and there will be money to made

look for opportunities in the foreclosure market. buy low, sell high is the mantra of businessmen everywhere. additionally, purchasing bad debt can be lucrative too, if you can pony up the capital to start a collection agency. naturally, you have to offset potential profit with the loss of a percentage of debt in a portfolio, but it's all "money" that can be bought for pennies on the dollar.

strong family units will help many people.

[SKKY]

6. I don't see the point in wishing bad things on people...

...to "teach them a lesson". Life has a way of working itself out without me having to do that. But if we truly are on the verge of some sort of economic collapse, I have friends and family that will be hurt by that, and that does indeed suck.

[Throd]

10. No. I enjoy my lifestyle as it is, thank you.

I don't need calamity to understand how privileged I am and would not wish that upon others.

[Deja Q]

12. Same here.

On both counts.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

13. I work in the back end of the default mortgage industry...

Yeah. It's going to be a freaking blast. :eyes:
Duckie

[datasuspect]

14. collections?

or some form of liquidation related function?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

16. I coordinate the selling of property that has already been foreclosed upon.

I used to work in Loss Mitigation though, and we have the best loss mitigation department there is in the US.
Duckie

[Dave_Fl_50]

43. Would you like my house?

[Dave_Fl_50]

47. Okay, I'm heartened by most of the replies here. I'm pretty sick of the glee that so many

Democratic are showing over the mess that Bush and company has made.

Hint: the people who were on top before a collapse will still be on top after a collapse. They'll just have more power. Are you really lookig forward to the collapse of Medicare and Social Security? To more millions of people w/o health insurance?

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. It does not necessarily have to completely collapse.

They are of course determined to make it do so in order to gain power over the remains, but it does not -have- to happen.

[Fire Walk With Me]

84. Of course, impeaching them immediately will reduce their chances of killing the economy.

[Redstone]

18. We're all set. It wasn't that long ago that we were dirt-poor, so we haven't

forgotten how to do it.

Redstone

[skater314159]

32. Yeah, I grew up "poor".

Didn't realize that I was poor until I was in University... but I still have all the knowledge and skills I had then. And it's not like there will be a *total collapse*, I think people will band together and help each other out - that's what I have always experienced in times of Crisis.

I don't have any joy or schadefreude over it though... I remember my grandparent's and great-grandparent's stories of the Depression and The Turnip Winter... I don't want to have to see ANYONE go through that - not even someone who is a total asshole like *. Noone.

[Lyric]

19. I'm terrified, honestly.

We're already poor and barely scraping by, and we're doing better than any of my family members, so there's no help to fall back on there. I pray to whatever deities exist that the federal student loan program and the Food Stamp program don't get scaled back or removed; otherwise, we'd be royally fucked.

[BuelahWitch]

20. Ralph Nader, is that you?

:hide:

[datasuspect]

21. you outed me

yes, datasuspect is in fact ralph nader.

shucks.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. ready, dude.

the waiting is the hardest part.

[Karenina]

24. Waiting? The curtain rose last August!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. when the curtain closes on the final act. I am ready...

I could be readier, but I am far better prepared than most.

[redwitch]

23. No.

nt

[quadriga]

25. You can make flour from cattail root

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/duffyk43.html

Later, the male pollen head will begin to develop an abundance of yellow pollen with a talcum powder consistency that can easily be shaken off into any container. Several pounds of this can be collected in less than an hour. The traditional use of this pollen is to substitute for some the flour in pancakes to make cattail pancakes. This also works well with cornbread. Other uses of the pollen include thickeners or flour extenders for breads, cakes, etc.

[Rosemary2205]

26. i won't care - I'll be dead

as soon as the meds run out and I can't afford the next batch it'll take about a month tops and I'll be taking the old dirt nap.

[musette_sf]

27. i wouldn't say so much that i am

looking forward to it. more that i think that it is simply inevitable, and also that many good people will suffer more than they should. i see on DU so many people whose posts i've read for years, telling about how they find it harder and harder just to hold on day by day in this world.

a positive aspect that i look forward to is that maybe we will repudiate, through need and raised consciousnesses, the Simply Crap consumer culture. does anyone else here go to the mall and just feel oppressed and disgusted by the sheer volume of C*R*A*P for sale?

can we possibly be reaching a consumer exhaustion point? (and is consumerism the legacy we have passed on to developing nations?)

[SOteric]

28. Not even a little bit, no.

Stupid people deserve a comeuppance, but not at the expense of those already struggling, and certainly not at the expense of hard-working, salt-of-the-earth men and women who've got families to feed. There is no part of me that would take joy in watching my neighbours flounder even if it meant some asshole I work with would be unable to make payments on his hummer and his overpriced home.

[Raven]

30. Ah, yeah...I'd hate to see all the money I worked so hard to save

gone. Is there some reason to be happy about this? I don't think so.

[Bennyboy]

31. Not looking forward, but prepared is more like it....

When my business went in the shitter last year, I got rid of my car, credit cards. Moved to a much cheaper place. Cut way back on stuff.

IT is very hard but I am not going to be shooting myself over debt. I'll be okay and am hunkered down and am trying to start a new non profit. One that takes advantage of the cuts in education.

[BuelahWitch]

33. I'm not an "I've got mine, sucks to be you" type of person

I get no joy in seeing others suffer.

[dembotoz]

34. looking forward??? bad chose of words.

do I anticipate a mess???
Yes.

does a collapse ensure a dem victory in november?
No

[triguy46]

35. My question for anyone who is planning on heading to the country:

Can you make soap? If not you will have the choice of being dirty, or trying to either beg, borrow, barter or steal. 150 years ago the west was settled by people who had all kinds of knowledge of survival. Our knowledge today is more like what kind of wine to buy. That said, I've got a farm that is paid for, no debt, source of heat (woods), and water. But I don't know how to make soap.

[NMDemDist2]

51. ashes and oil = soap

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Lye

once you have lye, mix it with oil, olive oil, corn oil, lard, whatever you have from the farm

practice practice, but you have everything you need to make soap

[siligut]

75. Soap is easy.

One of the most useful things I discovered when I started making soap; use an old crock-pot. It is essentially rebatching from the start and you don’t have to stir and stir waiting for it to saponify. Also, lye into water, never water into lye, just a reminder.

I am not looking forward to the collapse, and to think the assholes will pay is ludicrous, the wealthy clean up during a collapse, in fact they wait for it. The stock market is a closed system, the money doesn’t just evaporate, people sell to take the money of others. It is a nasty game anymore.

When your property loses value, you may not have anything, but the fucking wealthy, well, that’s all they have and they will gladly pay you a quarter of the actual worth, so you can eat. Then they can just sit out the collapse and they own your stuff.

[struggle4progress]

36. O yeah! I figgers th'joy o'sayin "Toldjaso" gonna blunt my starvin poverty some

at least fer th'first few days

Then I'll gotta try t'learn t'prepare tasty meals from whatever grows good in m'yard: y'know any recipes fer poysin ivy?

[Mike03]

37. This question is so important, I wish you would repost it in GD.

This crisis has been so long in the works, so obvious, and so iminent, that I do find it hard to muster sympathy for some victims of this situation, but on the other hand, I do feel incredible empathy due to the corrupt methods of the lenders.

But I want to see what others think.

[Adsos Letter]

79. ...corrupt methods of lenders...

this thing is gonna spread beyond the population associated with the "corrupt methods of lenders"...that is what makes rejoicing over the fall so mean-spirited...this thing has gone, and is going, waaay beyond the mortgage meltdown.

[lost-in-nj]

39. no

and i wish you wouldn't put everyone with money in one place....
"broad brush" or what ever
you have no idea what some of us have gone through
to get to where we are....


you have no fucking idea



:shrug: :shrug:

lost

[CBHagman]

40. No, because I don't like to see communities collapse and...

...people suffer.

[Tektonik]

41. No because I'm not a sadistic fuck

[Swede]

44. Buy Citi stock is my advice.

You'll be glad you did.

[Dave_Fl_50]

48. and ExxonMobil

[Yavin4]

46. Extreme Economic Times Bring About Extreme Politics

Look at the 30s, the country could have easily slipped into extreme facism if it weren't for FDR. Bad economic times bring out the real ugly in people.

[Adsos Letter]

80. This is one of the most important posts in this thread, in my way of thinking....

America has always had its demagogues, mostly from the Right wing populist part of the spectrum but the Left is not immune to that behavior.

If we have a severe collapse, it is going to be very, very important that we weigh the solutions being offered by our government, or people seeking to draw a following.

Think Hitler in the 1930's for the most extreme example...but America has its share of Father Coughlin's, William Pelly's, and Pat Robertson's.

[Connonym]

49. That collapse isn't impending, it's already here for some of us

It's like a picnic every day. Sometimes I can barely conceal my glee at being at rock bottom. Thanks for asking.

[KG]

50. not me. i was just getting a leg up on things and now i'm scouting out bridges to live under.

[Adsos Letter]

52. No

We are comfortable, from a long life of hard working and common-sense spending...no McMansion for us, just a single storey, 3 bedroom house; no SUV for us, but a couple of nice paid-for cars. Much of our excess "discretionary spending" went to putting 2 girls through private schools and colleges, helping them get a shot at life.

And life has been good: a family who loves each other, gets along wonderfully, and has many good memories to share.

And any impending economic meltdown, while possibly quite diastrous for us, will never erase those things.

Sorry you're so bitter that others have done better than you in honest pursuits in life that you feel the need to derive some perverted sense of joy from the destruction of an economy which may bring misery to those who don't deserve it, as well as those who do.

[krispos42]

53. Good think I'll be debt-dree when my income tax check comes

Well, and with a little from that economy-boosting band-aid in May, or whatever.

The division of my company that I work for exports to Europe and we're still working 48-hour weeks! Mmmm... overtime...

[Adsos Letter]

54. That is the key, if people can manage it...

not everyone can stay debt-free, even living within the tightest of constraints; but, their are many more who could if they would take a commonsense approach to their earnings.

[krispos42]

55. Yes, it will be nice.

I'm vaguely entertaining the idea of trying to buy a little house. It's a buyer's market, so I figure I could pick up a foreclosed starter home for less than I'm paying in rent, if I'm lucky. Two bedrooms, single bath, yard. Attached garage would be nice.

But the process scares me beyond belief, I have no money saved up, and I think my credit might suck. <sigh> Worries, worries. And I rent now, and rents tend to go up when the housing market is down.

My parents would probably co-sign me. Hell, they could probably buy house outright and sell it to me!

[Skittles]

56. no

for every person who "has it coming", there are a hundred people who absolutely do not

[Adsos Letter]

82. Amen Skittles.

[WildEyedLiberal]

57. I just graduated college

I was a history major and I've taken some time off to do some traveling - which means I have no job, no career, lined up at the moment. I have no savings and no home, but I am still better off than most college graduates because I have no student loan debt. An economic collapse would render me utterly helpless, jobless, and without much hope.

So you can go to hell.

[GCP]

58. How old are you?

Do you realize how much your attitude sucks?
My husband and I have worked hard all our lives, lived pretty frugally on our income and have no debt. We own our house and cars outright and have money invested in the stock market.
We were looking forward to a nice retirement and now the future, thanks to the pukes, is not as bright as it used to be.
And you're laughing and dancing with glee at the thought of an economic collapse. Make no mistake, we'll be OK, we won't lose our house or need to move, but thousands didn't get the breaks we did, such as being born at the right time, having stable families getting a great free education courtesy of the UK, and having a happy stable marriage.
Many people in this country are living on the edge, whether from their own poor choices or shit-loads of bad luck.
I never 'worked so hard to distance myself from' anyone. I worked hard to have a nice home and be free from debt.
I feel no schadenfreude at all for desperate people. And you shame yourself by your post.

[Midlodemocrat]

59. .

:applause:

[Midlodemocrat]

60. .

:applause:

[sasquatch]

62. Are you speaking to me yet?

:shrug:

[sasquatch]

63. I feel and bitterness towards the baby boomers though

What advice do you have for me?

[CBHagman]

86. I'm a baby boomer, and here's a question plus an observation.

You mentioned, sasquatch, that you feel bitterness towards the baby boomers. What is the source or rationale for your bitterness?

Here's the observation. Online and in the media in general, including here at DU, plus in conversations, I've seen a lot of sweeping generalizations about the generations -- the Greatest Generation, the in-betweens, the boomers, Gen X, millennials/Gen Y -- and a lot of it is heavy on emotion and light on the facts. It ranges from Ed Meese still gnashing his teeth over the protests of yesteryear to my neighbor's Gen Y son griping that people receive Social Security, for which he is paying(as though no one had paid taxes to finance, say, school system he attended).

What I suspect is happening is that people are seeking scapegoats and pat answers to complex phenomena, and a lot of times pundits and reporters don't focus on the facts but rather on the framing it all as an intergenerational conflict. It's like the election coverage: there's no story if there's not a bloody fight.

As to the general topic of this thread, I'd observe:

A) Real people are hurt by real shifts in the economy. They are not laboratory rats in an experiment.

B) Be careful about where you assign blame.

C) Everyone has basically the same needs -- health care, housing, food, etc. -- and here in U.S. society, at least, we are having an open conflict about how to handle those issues over the long term. But the health care debate, for example, is not new; it's just hard to effect a change under our current system (Political clout of the insurance industry, anyone?). We are, however, seeing health care costs rise alarmingly and pension systems fall apart, and that's everyone's problem, not just a single generation's.

[sasquatch]

90. Yes but who was voting for the people that were spouting this "Supply Side" bullshit

Well it definetly wasn't my generation or most of the non-boomer generations because we didn't have the vote or the numbers to overrule the boomers. It was always the boomers that came up with Reagan, Limbaugh, Thomas Friedman, and a slew of other idealoges that were screwing us over and over around the turn. I'm sorry if I cant have any tolerance of their self-centered decadence and the consequences of it that we now face. They need to be held accountable and I won't rest until they are.

[GCP]

91. Broad brush you're using there, pal

I've been a Keynsian all my life, have never believed in supply-side, in fact Maggie Thatcher is the reason I left the UK.
I never voted for Reagan or for anybody who wasn't a leftist, for that matter.
I hate Limbaugh and all the Reich wing pukes.
So anything else you'd like to pin on me?
You probably hate the Beatles and Stones too :(

[sasquatch]

92. You moved here to get away from Thatcher?

Why?
BTW, what did Thatcher do to Welsh coal miners?

[GCP]

94. She decided to use supply-side economics

To squeeze inflation out of the economy. In doing so, she deliberately closed down many manufacturing industries and threw millions out of work. Her policies meant industries couldn't borrow money to get them through the hard times, they just went broke. The north of England suffered disproportionally, whole towns were basically thrown on the scrap heap.
She broke the miners unions, and closed down just about the whole coal mining industry.
My husband was offered a job in the corporate headquarters of his company and we came over here thinking our kids would have a better future.
Unfortunately that was the year Reagan won, can you frickin' believe it. :(

[CBHagman]

96. Demography and orthography bring down the sasquatch!

Ah, sasquatch, we've always had divided electorates, scapegoating, demagogues, and some variation of "Everything would be fine if it wasn't for those people."

Of course, the identity of those people varies from generation to generation and century to century and even from group to group, but scapegoating/demonizing isn't a particularly productive or admirable activity.

As for every generation but the baby boom possessing radiant purity and no responsibility for anything you dislike, including nasty talk show hosts and Republican presidents, think again. Do you think the baby boom is one-party voting bloc? Do you think none of us voted for McGovern and volunteered for Al Gore? And are you going to go out and hold Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, and Tim Robbins "accountable"? After all, they are boomers and, by your definition, responsible for all our ills.

Do you think that there were no demagogues in the '30s, '40s, and '50s, and no acts of injustice, censorship, or racism?

And for self-centered decadence, trust me on this: the parents who brought up the baby boom generation went through the Great Depression and the Second World War. They were not, as far as I can tell, generally helicopter parents, and while some of them might have brought up a little prince or princess, generally boomer kids were crammed into station wagons with the rest of the gang, went through work-study in college, and went to overcrowded schools (we had three shifts in mine: 7:20, 8:30, and 9:40). This is not a life style that lends itself to a lifelong practice of decadence.


Better you should study spelling and a little history!

[PeaceNikki]

61. You mention "ultra-rich"

This definition has changed beyond comprehension for most of us. I think it's important to point out the very big difference between being comfortable and being obscenely rich.

I heard an interesting stat on NPR the other day which is discussed here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/03/05/for-super-rich-growth-in-income-surpasses-growth-in-income-tax-paid/?mod=googlenews_wsj

Incomes for Super Rich Grow Faster Than Their Taxes

A new report by the IRS on America’s top 400 income-tax payers shows that the super-wealthy are gaining a larger share of the income pie, but are paying a lower share of taxes.

In 2005, you needed at least $100.3 million in AGI to make the list — more than triple the amount needed in 1995. This is roughly in keeping with the increases in the Forbes 400 list, where the wealth needed to make the 400 has more than tripled since 1992 to $1.3 billion. Of course, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the same rich people are getting richer, since the income list tends to be fluid. It just means that the fortunes being made today are much greater than those of the past.

What’s most striking however is the income and tax shares. The IRS report shows that the Fortunate 400 now control 1.15% of the nation’s income — twice the share they controlled in 1995. Over the same period, however, the average income tax paid by this same group has fallen from 30% to 18%. That’s due mainly to the Bush tax cuts.

Yet the the growth in incomes by the super-rich has far surpassed their growth in their income taxes paid, since their tax rates have fallen. Their share of total income has more than doubled since 1995; yet their share of taxes has only gone up less than 50%. Whether this is good or bad will be up to partisan pundits and economists to fight over. But one thing is certain: The report will likely provide new ammunition for both sides of the wealth wars.

[PVnRT]

64. What a crock of shit

You're right, anyone not poor must be some head-in-the-clouds rich asshole with no idea how the other half lives. Horseshit. People with your kind of scumfuck attitude make me sick.

[annonymous]

65. No, and I think anyone who likes to see others suffer is sick.

[Blue Diadem]

66. Not looking forward to it, but we'll survive

and anything that I've learned from experience and that I can contribute to others to help them survive economic hardship, will be done freely with no expectations in return.

[yardwork]

67. Those who are already vulnerable are always hurt the worst.

The Great Depression of the 1930s was not a "great equilizer." The very wealthy remained very wealthy. Those with less lost everything.

No, I'm not looking forward to economic collapse. It will bring social repression and suffering with it.

[sasquatch]

68. Thanks to the Baby Boomers I will now probably relive what my grandparents went through

x(

[Adsos Letter]

83. Yeah...everyone born in the "babyboomer" generation...

has sought to make your future miserable...and is responsible for what is happening now... :sarcasm:

[sasquatch]

89. An overwhelming majority of them have

Reagan, Bush, Clinton's triangulation, and Bush jr's bullshit have all compounded to destroy this country and my future.

[BuelahWitch]

93. For one thing, Reagan and Bush I were not Boomers

Boomers may have voted for Reagan, but by 1988 Gen-Xers had come of age too. If you're going to be blaming a generation for your problems, don't look any further than your own. There are plenty of Gen X and Y people who are conservatives. The blame is equally spread out amongst all age groups, putting the blame on one vs. the others is just silly.

[Adsos Letter]

97. ...thankyou...

[youthere]

69. Somehow watching my neighbors lose their homes...

that they've been struggling the last two years to keep doesn't bring me any joy. The thought of all the scraping that my family and I will have to do AGAIN doesn't thrill me either. We've been down that road before, and while we hardly live in the lap of luxury, we've finally gotten our heads above water where we don't have to scrimp and scrounge for every last cent. For the first time in our lives we have a little paycheck at the end of our pay cycle...though it's been shrinking lately with the rising gas prices and food costs.
I'm glad that you're looking forward to it, though. Someone should be having a good time I guess.
:sarcasm:

[SPKrazy]

70. It will be sad to see the economy collapse

and people dying from the poor decisions that our fucked up leaders made.

Nothing to look forward to.

Thinking that it will be a "great equalizer" is romanticizing disaster.

This whole thread sucks

[Zuiderelle]

71. It's a horrifyingly selfish attitude you have.

What affects the top will always, ALWAYS affect the bottom. And the bottom already has no where to go. Someone who is now able to barely get by, would lose everything. Those at the top won't feel the pain as much as those at the bottom. And those of us in the middle don't deserve to have everything taken from us simply because we struggled and planned all our lives to make a good life for our families.

[Dave_Fl_50]

74. Paris Hilton might have to cut back on buying handbags. The old and infirm

they can just do w/o medications

[no name no slogan]

72. Speaking as somebody who is debt-free and gainfully employed

no, I'm not looking forward to it :(

[LanternWaste]

73. I imagine that many of those on the Rapture Ready boards do...

I imagine that many of those on the Rapture Ready boards are gleefully rubbing their hands together in anticipation...

Me? I'm not looking forward to any type of collapse.

[On the Road]

76. Crashes are Rarely Equalizers

They tend to wipe out the poor and middle classes and the upper 1% buy up cheap assets. Happened with great frequency during the 19th century. The top 1% will have a larger share of a smaller pie. The other 99% will have a smaller share of a smaller pie.

[huskerlaw]

77. It won't equalize anything

because rich people aren't going to lose their homes or really change their lifestyles in any meaningful way.

However, the middle class will collapse. And we'll have an upper class, a "I've still got a home, for now" class, and a whole shitload of poor people.

An economic collapse isn't something to look forward to.

[Gala328]

78. Economic Collapse is Never Good

If a collapse would occur, I fear that a military dictatorship would come to power in order to quell the rioting in the streets and maintain order. That is not a future I wish to envision, friend.

[mondo joe]

81. Not at all. I don't loiok forward to people suffering. NT

[Westegg]

87. No. I earn my money ...

...and my wife (who also earns her money) and I have worked hard to have a future for our family. Nothing extravagant. Merely health care and education. I don't have an SUV or a McMansion. We have retirement plans and money invested in the stock market. We pay off our debts and credit cards 100% every month, because we made a commitment to ourselves and our family to do so.

We know exactly where we stand with regard to the "ultra rich." We have never pretended otherwise. The numbers don't lie.

We are liberals, and we vote liberal and support the causes we believe in-- human rights, gay rights, the environment, animal rights, anti-war, etc., etc.-- as best we can, through donations and through action.

You, "datasuspect," hoping and wishing that I will soon have to choose between heating oil and visits to the doctor, leave me cold.

[Lorien]

88. No, and you'd better damn well leave the squirrels and birds

on my property alone. :grr:

[x-g.o.p.er]

95. No, I'm not

I have a good job, and a couple of good prospects in my back pocket when I retire from the military, so I'll be fine.

But retirees, like my Dad, are getting smoked, especially with the rising price of gas and food. He's a proud man, but has asked to move in with me because he can no longer afford his home, and it's killing him.

We have the room and we'll gladly move him up here and take him in, but what about thousands of folks like my Dad who don't have a support network? What will happen to them?

Looking forward to an economic downturn that will adversely affect millions of Americans is kind of shitty, IMHO.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

98. I am NOT looking forward to it but, I am prepared for it.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst is my mantra. Fact is, in a lot of ways I am already in it.