Well, I just got fucked by Apple Computer.

[Rabrrrrrr]

Fucking useless asshole company - now they're forcing new software on people who update previous software.

I just updated iTunes, and now I find that Safari has been loaded - without my permission - on my computer.

And I'm not the only one who thinks this unethical.

http://www.informationweek.com/software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206905256

Fuck Apple.

[DS1]

1. iTunes blows, Safari is a piece of shit

[GoneOffShore]

42. Could you explain why you think that?

[Tektonik]

2. Usually when Apple's software updater pops up, you have an option

The other day the Apple software updater asked me if I wanted to download Safari 3.1, and I clicked no. :shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. I didn't even bother to look what it was - it just "Apple software update"

and I assumed it was iTunes or Quicktime or something, so I clicked it.

Come to find out, I was wrong about it being an iTunes update - it must have been purely to load Safari on my computer, and not actually update anything.

That's even a worse kind of bullshit.

[mondo joe]

8. Odd. My software update is running right now, and it's showing me 4 items for

installation, one of which is Safari.

[Pierre.Suave]

15. I think Rabrrrrr

has a PC.

I am a mac user, but have heard that iTunes and Safari are not as good on a PC as they are on a mac.

Personally, I have no problems with them.

[REP]

23. Ah. User error. Death to Apple!

I've got my pitchfork ready.

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. Partly user error, yes - but morely, sleazy business practices

After Apple established a pattern over the past years of never installing new software, why should I all of a sudden need to really read the fine print when it says "updates" to make sure there isn't something there that's absolutely new?

A company interrupting my computer time, without my permission, to offer me brand new software is barbaric - it's like a salesman who comes to one's door but doesn't knock, because he somehow got a key, so he just comes in and when you protest he says, "You had a chance to change your lock, but you didn't".

[yewberry]

4. I got that Software Update message yesterday, too.

I was able to decline the Safari download, though--I always read what the updates are before I accept them because there's so much I won't use. (iPhone? No thanks.) I wondered if there was something in that update I might need, though, because it listed some kind of java updates with the Safari dl.

Can you remove the stuff you don't want?

[huskerlaw]

5. Oh come ON

I'm downloading that update as we speak and it CLEARLY says that it's updating Safari.

Don't blame Apple for your inability to read.

[DS1]

6. Don't blame Apple for your inability to read.

That's what I suspect happened. It's common for software installers to prompt you with the option (always selected for you) to install other software.

That being said,

iTunes blows, Safari is a piece of shit!

[huskerlaw]

9. Safari is a piece of shit

I'll give you that. Which is why I use Firefox.

I like iTunes though. :shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. It's a sneaky, crappy way to do business - never before has Apple installed new software

And they update stuff pretty regularly, so I become accustomed to clicking the "apple" windows, since they've ALWAYS actually been updates, as they say.

Why should I expect that all of a sudden they'd open a window that says "Update" but which is actually "please let us install brand new software on your computer that you didn't ask for or even solicit to us that you needed or wanted or had even thought that maybe, someday, you might wish to have".

It's Big Brother Apple deciding what's best for us. It's the way they've run the business since they started.

[huskerlaw]

19. How can they update Safari if you don't have it?

That's just silly. If you were to, say, "update" Windows Media Player, but you didn't actually HAVE WMP, it would automatically download the most current version. This is the same concept. If you say you want an update, Apple is assuming you want the program that you're updating.

Bottom line: READ. Apple updates often include the option of updating things you don't have or don't need. It's not rocket science. Don't blame Apple for your inability to uncheck a box.

[sir_captain]

22. Bullshit

Microsoft had to pay billions of dollars in fines for installing IE in Windows XP in Europe and now the various Windows flavors over there come without it installed. They recently pulled their search feature from their start menu because Google complained that it was anti-competitive.

Apple is installing new software on Windows machines in the guise of an "update." They have never before done that on the Windows platform, and if they were Microsoft, they'd be getting hold hell for it.

[huskerlaw]

25. How is Apple installing software on a Windows machine??

The OP said it was an Apple update. That would be on an Apple computer. :wtf:

And no, it's not the same thing that Microsoft got in trouble for. Microsoft got in trouble because it was bundling software on PC's. Apple doesn't have the same problem because the computers are APPLE computers. See the difference? Apple software on Apple computers vs. Microsoft software on Sony computers, on Dell computers, etc.

How is this difficult to understand?

[sir_captain]

27. You are mistaken

This is obviously not a problem on Apple computers on which Safari is already installed.

The OP was referencing the fact that if Windows users have iTunes or Quicktime installed, the utility which automatically updates that program is now "upgrading" the *Windows* computer with Safari whether or not Safari was there to begin with, which in the vast majority of cases, it was not.

How is this difficult to understand?

[Rabrrrrrr]

39. No, it was a Windows machine. Apple makes a lot of stuff that works on Windows machines.

[RoyGBiv]

34. That is the problem ...

The industry meaning of "update" is either to patch a current version or overwrite the old version with the new of software *already installed on your system*. In some cases, new software is installed when the software being updated depends on it.

The updater says, "Select the items you want to update, then click install," which, by common practice, implies Safari is already installed.

Yes, it would be nice if everyone would read this stuff, and I for one do. But I'm not typical.

Mozilla CEO John Lilly puts it this way:

The problem here is that it lists Safari for getting an update — and has the “Install” box checked by default — even if you haven’t ever installed Safari on your PC.

That’s a problem because of the dynamic I described above — by and large, all software makers are trying to get users to trust us on updates, and so the likely behavior here is for users to just click “Install 2 items,” which means that they’ve now installed a completely new piece of software, quite possibly completely unintentionally. Apple has made it incredibly easy — the default, even — for users to install ride along software that they didn’t ask for, and maybe didn’t want. This is wrong, and borders on malware distribution practices.

It’s wrong because it undermines the trust that we’re all trying to build with users. Because it means that an update isn’t just an update, but is maybe something more. Because it ultimately undermines the safety of users on the web by eroding that relationship. It’s a bad practice and should stop.

John's Blog

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. That's my whole fucking point - they "updated" something that I didn't even have!

Snuck it in under my radar through trickery.

[sir_captain]

21. Are you downloading it on a Windows PC

which does not have Safari installed and hence has no need to be "updated"?

This is essentially no different from spyware/malware.

And in any case, why do you feel the need to be so insulting. The OP didn't insult you in any way. Your personal attack was way out of line.

[huskerlaw]

26. It wasn't a personal attack

if the OP had read before he clicked "ok" on the download, his problem never would have happened. That's not a personal attack, that's just truth.

[sir_captain]

28. You're playing semantic games

what you said was insulting, particularly since you don't seem to understand his point.

[pokerfan]

7. I will never understand why Apple is considered counter culture

and progressive and the PC platform dreary, dull and conformist. Apple has always been extremely Big Brother-ish and insular. IBM created a platform that they opened up to third party development, for better and worse. Apple and Jobs would never relinquish control like that.

[siligut]

10. You are not the only one. That is unethical shit.

I believe that the prompt to download Safari sort of slides by, I believe that is intentional, but as others have said, there is no law against being sneaky.

[tigereye]

11. the only problem I have had is that Safari shuts down unexpectedly -

sometimes.


I send the little message to Apple telling them this happened, and I would assume that they try to fix it.

Otherwise I love my MacBook. It has been a delight to use. They have lovely design features. I never see those awful Microsoft error boxes!



that being said, my software- writing husband thinks Steve Jobs is waaaay out there.

[ghostsofgiants]

13. Is it just me or are Apple trying to follow in the footsteps of Real?

iTunes is such a bloated piece of ballsack.

[Lorien]

14. Are you on a PC?

I love iTunes, but I've heard that it doesn't work as well on a PC. Not a fan of Safari, though-I use Firefox instead.

[Shine]

16. I agree that seems unethical.

:thumbsdown:

in other Apple-related news, yesterday I just spent $40 on a special adaptor charger for my iPod touch that will enable it to be charged from a regular electric outlet.

Seemed a bit pricey to me, but they've got us by the collective short hairs. :eyes:

[MilesColtrane]

17. Wow, you're really all up in Steve Job's house.

But, will this outrage extend to selling your iPod and getting rid of your Apple software?

[JTG of the PRB]

18. Did you at least get to cuddle afterwards?

:hide:

[PeaceNikki]

20. Here's a good list of iTunes alternatives.

http://ipodmanagers.blogspot.com/

I've used "YamiPod" listed there with very good results: http://www.yamipod.com/main/modules/home/

I no longer own an iPod, but HATED iTunes when I did. Now that I have a Zune, that bloated resource-heavy POS is nowhere near my new PC.

[deucemagnet]

29. THANK YOU!

[PeaceNikki]

30. Yay!!

You're welcome.

[Parche]

24. Did You Save The Core?

:hi:

[LTR]

31. I've always been pissed at the way they force Quicktime on people

Not only do they currently bundle it with iTunes, they add themselves to the startup menu without prompting, ala Real Player.

With Safari, which is a pretty good browser BTW, they claim that it will be an opt-in, but in reality, they are force-installing it with iTunes upgrades. I had already installed it last week, and I do like it, though I wish there were plug-ins for the Windows version.

Apple does a good job with their computers, iPods and some other things. But people are afraid to call them on some of their sleazy tactics.

And all their software is ridiculously bloated. Does QT really need to be 75Mb?

[ozu]

41. agreed

I'm sort of tied to iTunes at the moment since I have an iPhone, but nothing pisses me off more than having to download Quicktime every goddamn time there's an update to it.

I don't use Quicktime. I have codecs that can handle reading the files without having to install an 80MB piece of shitty software that likes to clutter up my task bar and startup menu.

Hate hate hate Quicktime.

[quadriga]

32. Did they buy you breakfast?

Or did you just roll over and they were gone?

[SPKrazy]

33. Did you get a hug and a kiss too?

otherwise delete Safari

I've not gotten that when I update itunes but I haven't in a while

[begin_within]

35. You can turn off the Software Updates. You can also delete Safari and install Firefox.

I used Safari for years and I still use it, but I have been using Firefox more and more lately. Why don't you just go ahead and delete Safari off your Mac and install Firefox, which you can download from:

http://en.www.mozilla.com/en/firefox/

However, don't delete Safari until after you have installed and run Firefox, because Firefox will automatically read all of your Safari bookmarks and you won't have to do anything to get them into Firefox- all your bookmarks will appear in Firefox. Once you have done that, then delete Safari.

Mozilla also makes Thunderbird, an excellent e-mail client. Firefox and Thunderbird are free and are quality programs.

To turn off the automatic Software Updates, click on the apple icon at the upper left of the screen, and from the menu choose "System Preferences..." and when the System Preferences screen appears, click on the Software Update icon, which is under the "System" section. Where it says "Check for Updates" there is a box that is checked. Click on that box to uncheck it. Then from the "System Preferences" menu choose "Quit System Preferences" or just type Command-Q. Then it won't automatically download and install anything for you. You will have to manually go to Apple's web site for new system software, or VersionTracker.com for other software. If you uncheck that box, it should not automatically download anything to your computer without your permission.

[Fox Mulder]

36. Yeah, those assholes just tried having me install Safari.

I declined.

[datasuspect]

38. hope they had some lube.

[PVnRT]

43. Man, the Apple fanboys get pissed when you dare say Apple is not holy

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Amazing, isn't it?

It really is like a cult.

I don't know any Windows fans who feel they've been personally threatened or their lives destroyed if someone criticizes Windows.

But the Apple cultists sure take everything personally, no matter how minor.

In all truthfulness, I find it creepy.

[otherlander]

45. That's kinky.