Question for African American DUers on the use of an idiom...

[usregimechange]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x4665

Any opinions on the issue would be appreciated.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. perhaps the origin of the phrase will be helpful --

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/83700.html

Origin

It might be thought that this derives from the derogatory slang use of the term spade meaning Negro - an American term originating in the 20th century. That view of it as derogatory might also be thought to be supported by this piece from John Trapp's Mellificium theologicum, or the marrow of many good authors, 1647:

"Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a niggard a niggard."

The phrase is much older than that though. Nicolas Udall, in his Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus - translated 1542, has:

"Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade."

This refers back to Plutarch's Apophthegmata, 178 BC.

The eccentric right-wing British Tory politician Sir Gerald Nabarro was fond of emphasizing his direct 'man of the people' image by saying 'I call a spade a shovel'. In fact, despite being from an immigrant family himself, Nabarro loudly supported the repatriation of Caribbean immigrants to the UK. How he referred in private to the people who would have undoubtedly have been called 'spades' in Nabarro's social circle isn't recorded.

[usregimechange]

2. I am more looking for whether African Americans would be offended by the use of the idiom

but yes, the phrase has long been used to mean nothing close to a racial slur.

[MsKandice01]

3. As a black woman, I don't find it offensive...

And in fact, most of the people I've ever heard use that term were black also.

[usregimechange]

4. Thanks for responding... Have they used the word or the phrase/idiom?

[MsKandice01]

5. The phrase

[Connonym]

6. I always thought it meant like a garden spade

in the sense one would say call a hammer a hammer (you know as opposed to calling it a nail or I don't know). It never occurred to me that there was any racial reference at all.

[libodem]

7. can flaming white liberals

jump in? I always heard it, 'Call a spade a spade and a shovel a shovel'. But I've also heard, 'blacker than the ace of spades'. Does that apply to all things black or just beings? Let me tell you a dirty little secret that will shock you. A girl I went to school with once referred to some young black airmen at the Holiday Inn, she was passing, (the guys made a comment or two) and I quote..."them jigs". I was shocked by the poor English and the term. Kinda made me sick. I didn't think people still talked that way in the '90's. Left a permanent impression on me.