Do you agree with this rant? (Can men and women be friends)

[Guava Jelly]

ON edit..I'll let it stand since on a second glance it isn't a very fair poll

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QkXnG-B5zZM
When Harry met Sally (Scene where Harry explains why men and women can't be friends)


(from a later scene)

Harry: Would you like to have dinner? ...Just friends.
Sally: I thought you didn't believe men and women could be friends.
Harry: When did I say that?
Sally: On the ride to New York.
Harry: No, no, no, I never said that. ...Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can. ...This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted. ...That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends.

[KitchenWitch]

1. is the poll saying do you agree with the rant or do you believe men and women can be friends?

[drmeow]

2. Oops - good point

if its "do you agree with this rant" I just voted the wrong way.

[Guava Jelly]

3. I guess I am asking if you agree with the gist of the rant

I believe that he is wrong myself.:)

[Ellen Forradalom]

4. I voted, "Yes, men and women can be friends."

I've had it work both ways. I have fine male friends. I also have a fine male friend where passions bubbled over :-)

[Guava Jelly]

6. I agree with you

I find that most of my better friends are female..A few of them are pretty freaken hot ,I must concede but I can be friends with them :)

[Deja Q]

5. Oh, I thought the scene where she says "Yes, Yes, YES!!!!!" discussed that...

:shrug:

[Guava Jelly]

8. the orgasm scene is a classic

I'll have what she's having :rofl:

[Deja Q]

12. Oh, come on, it was faked and you know it,

:rofl:

[Guava Jelly]

15. ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-bsf2x-aeE

[Deja Q]

36. I'll have what she's having.

:rofl:

[TexasBushwhacker]

37. That lady is Rob Reiner's mother LOL - n/t

[Deja Q]

38. Wow, Meg Ryan looks great for her age!

:wow:

[TexasBushwhacker]

42. The "I'll have what she's having" lady :)

[KitchenWitch]

7. I believe men and women can be friends.

I have some great true blue male friends (no they are not gay) that I would not trade for anything.

[Guava Jelly]

13. And I have Female friends who I would jump on a granade for.

:)

[billyskank]

9. In my experience that's the only thing they can be.

[Guava Jelly]

10. On the other hand

You do want your lover to also be a friend. :)

[billyskank]

11. I wouldn't know.

[Guava Jelly]

14. You are a young and attractive guy

Trust me when I say it WILL come..
Normally when you stop looking.

[Firespirit]

16. They'd damn well better be able to be friends...

I assume we're talking about heterosexuals.

But they'd better be able to be friends, because if two hetero people of opposite genders cannot, then I am looking at a hard life ahead as a bi person.

[Guava Jelly]

17. Stereotypes

That is my biggest problem with his rant.
He assumes that every relationship between an X and Y chromosome are equal.
Now the BI perspective makes this really interesting.
And sort of proves the concept wrong.
Can a human be a friend to a human with out wanting to do them?..I would guess yes.

[Firespirit]

30. Heck, the people I crush on most are straight women

Every freaking time I've been "in love," it was with a straight woman. I have no problem staying friends-only with people I "should" be attracted to! What's the parallel for Harry and Sally? I guess it would be if Harry was gay. :P

[Forkboy]

18. You and I both know the answer to that one.

:)

[Guava Jelly]

21. Yeah

We do :)

[buddhamama]

56. the bestest of friends even

:loveya:

[Forkboy]

59. Prezactly!

:D

:loveya:

[Inchworm]

19. I abstain. hehe.. the question is trixy

Yes, men and women can be friends. The problem that I've seen is that some men and some women cannot have friends that they want to "do."

Even if the latter doesn't say it out loud or even to themselves. When they are sexually attracted to a friend then it aint really a friend. The person then becomes a target. The person is always looking for a way to boink the target consciously or not.

Thats just my opinion :crazy:

:hide:

[Guava Jelly]

22. I can't argue with you

Nice angle.
:)

[TZ]

20. men and women can be friends

I've got about a 50/50 set of male/female friends.

[Guava Jelly]

23. Thank you

:)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. My dear GoPsUx...

Yes, I believe men and women can be friends...

Without wanting to have sex!

I have a lot of guy friends that I love to talk to...and going to bed with them has never been something I wanted...

And it's true for them too...

:hug:

[Guava Jelly]

25. I haven't been called "My dear" in ages..:o)

Thank you!! and I agree Calpeg. :hug:
I bet it wasn't true for many of them though. :D

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. say what?

what was/is the question O_o

[Guava Jelly]

27. If you ignore the poll

And go on what Billy Crystal said.
Do you agree with him?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. then

Yes. I agree with Harry/Billy Crystal. Relationships of the male/female variety are just as complicated/simple as the two individuals in it. There is ALWAYS potential. That does not mean to say that they can not NOT be "just friends". If this answer is in any way as convoluted as the question, then GOOD as that was my pure and simple unequivocal intention ;)

[Guava Jelly]

34. Mission accomplished

:rofl:
In their case I think they were in love from day one..They just didn't know it.

[Chan790]

28. There is no simple answer.

It cannot be answered on the generality because it has nothing to do with people in general and everything to do with the specific individuals in question.

Based on observation and life-experience, I'd say more often than not "No, they can't be." because for two people to be friends, they both have to want to be friends. As soon as one is attracted to the other and actively-desires to act upon that attraction, it is no longer possible. You can't be friends with someone who doesn't want to "just" be your friend. This leads us to two corollary points:

1.) At the uneven (i.e. non-mutual) ending of a relationship, the dumper cannot be the one to say "Let's just be friends." Well...they shouldn't be, at least. This is almost never going to go well.

2.) If your friend expresses a desire to be your lover, "I don't want to ruin our friendship." is not a good choice of positions to take (even if it's true). Clearly, they've decided to risk the friendship to pursue their desire of you. The friendship is never going to be the same again. Thus, you need to make your decision in the vacuum-absence of the possibility of preservation of what has previously existed. "I'm not attracted to you." is the better position to take if you're not attracted to them. (You may need to stress that this isn't going to change.) This allows them to decide if they want to remain your friend absent any possibility that more may come of it.

(This having been said, more than half of my friends are women.)

[Guava Jelly]

32. Could a person be friends with an ex?

I think they could.
Friendships like everything else change and evolve over time.
Oh btw...Love this line!! :applause:
"It cannot be answered on the generality because it has nothing to do with people in general and everything to do with the specific individuals in question."

[Chan790]

40. Only if the ex isn't pining for them.

I have exes I am friends with. I also have one I won't speak to any more than minimally-possible because I don't know if I'll ever be completely over her. (We broke up because she wasn't ready to settle down. She was married within 6 months.) I also have one who I tried to be friends with who wouldn't stop getting drunk and trying to kiss me.

[Cabcere]

45. I'm still really good friends with one of my exes

We broke it off because the long-distance aspect of the relationship wasn't working for us, but we still talk quite often, and I consider him a very good friend. :shrug: On the other hand, I cut off all contact with another one of my exes several years ago - we had been friends throughout middle and high school, but he ended up cheating on me and pretty much completely disrespecting me as a person, and I realized that we had both changed and the whole friendship thing wasn't going to be an option anymore. :shrug: I guess it depends on the nature of the individuals involved, as well as the nature of the relationship/friendship. :hi: Peace.

[Angel]

57. Yes, you can be friends with your ex

the love may even still be there, sometimes an ex can be your best friend but being together just didn't work out. Sucks..but it does happen.

[Forkboy]

60. that's a bunch of crap!

Ok, it isn't. :D

:loveya:

[Angel]

62. Damn Skippy it is

Ya know I have to hear your voice to keep me sane and calm lol :loveya:

[Forkboy]

64. Not with my phone connection.

It's like two cans and a string here. :)

[Angel]

67. Can still hear your voice

You really need to get a mic..use your pc for your calls ;)

[Forkboy]

70. I still have the one we had....somewhere.

I'll hunt it down eventually. :)

[Angel]

72. Hunt man hunt

the evil things you could do lol :loveya:

[Guava Jelly]

65. I guess so

;)

[Angel]

74. You guessed correctly

It also helps if the ex is truly a great person. ;)

[skygazer]

29. My best friend is a guy

The scenario in that scene involves people who are impossibly immature.

My best friend is a guy. We've been friends when neither of us was seeing anyone else and we're still best friends now that we both are married to other people. Both of our spouses understand how important our friendship is to us and in fact, they are friends of us and each other as well.

You can be friends with anyone of any gender as long as you're not a fucking idiot. :P

[Guava Jelly]

33. Thank you.

"You can be friends with anyone of any gender as long as you're not a fucking idiot"
That needs to be carved in stone!:yourock:

[TexasBushwhacker]

35. Yes and yes

I agree that our sexual preferences are hard wired into us, and that we generally are not friends with someone that we find sexually repulsive. That being said, you can DECIDE to be platonic friends with a member of the opposite sex (or the same sex, if that is your sexual preference). You just have to also decide that you aren't going to let the "sex thing" get in the way. With some people that's easier than others. I would say that you can be friends with your exes if you parted on friendly terms. If they turned out to be an asshole, why would you WANT to be friends with them?

[Guava Jelly]

39. I forgot about the 'asshole' clause.

And :applause:

[drmeow]

41. I have had plenty of friendships

with men who I didn't exactly find repulsive but I found quite definitively sexually unattractive. In fact, one of them (who I've lost touch with cause we've both moved all over the country so much) and I had a discussion about how neither of us was in any way attracted to the other, we just hit it off (he ended up being one of the best roommates I've ever had). I've also had friendships with men who I found sexually attractive. I'm not sexually attracted to women but I've had friendships with women who I consider both sexually attractive to others and sexually unattractive to others. And I'm not the only person who is that way. It may be that you can only be friends with someone you consider sexually attractive but that doesn't mean its not possible or likely.

[TexasBushwhacker]

43. There's a difference between "attractive" and "not repulsive"

Personally, the thought of sex has crossed my mind with any and all of my male friends. That's not to say that I would act on those thoughts. For one thing, a lot of them are married, and I would also say that few of them are "hot" in the traditional sense. The things that attract me to lovers are the same things that attract me to lovers.

[drmeow]

46. I have male friends where the thought

of having sex with them never crossed my mind beyond knowing the first time I saw them that I would never want to have sex with them. I wouldn't even call that knowledge that I didn't want to have sex with them was a thought I was aware of.

Assuming the premise that "sexual preferences are hard wired into us" means classify each individual we meet as based on sexual attraction into "possible mate" or "not possible mate" does not mean that only the males (in my case) who are possible mates are the ones I will interact with. Certainly we are hard wired to try to interact with all the possible mates we can; however, it is highly unlikely that we are hard wired to distinguish between male and female "not possible mates" and only interact with the female (in my case) ones. There are far to many reasons to interact with all non-enemy non-possible mates.

And for me, while the things that attract me to friends may be the things that attract me to lovers as well, the lovers HAVE to have some added spark and I've never had that spark grow from nothing as I got to know someone. The relationship had to start with an underlying "I find this person sexually attractive" even if I didn't think they were hot or I wasn't viewing them as a potential mate when I first started interacting with them - if that was never there, it was never going to be there, at least not so far in my 44 years.

[pink-o]

44. I've found that men and women can be friends far more easily if the sexual tension isn't there.

I'm not sayin' that two young, attractive, heterosexual people of opposite genders can't be friends, just that if you take one of those factors out of the mix, it's not as hard.

I have many male friends, gay and straight, but with straight men it usually works out that the single ones are a lot younger than I am, whereas the married ones are those I've met thru their wives and I'm good friends with the women too.

When I was young, I was a pretty strident feminist, but in the last 30 years I've learned a lot--and much of it thru my male friends. Guys are cool, they have skills to share, and I find the younger ones don't condescend to women like the generation before them. Guys love imparting their knowledge, and I love adding to my resume!

[tluvstigr]

47. Absolutely true!

There is always that under lying question if I wasn't with so and so...could this work? Hmmmm

[crispini]

48. I tend to think of my guy friends as "comrades" and my girl friends as "sisters"

I do believe that men and women can be friends, but I am not friends with men in the same way that I am friends with women. If that makes any sense. :p

[drmeow]

49. I would argue that the internet

has thrown a real spanner into the works of this argument. How many people have friends on-line whose sex they don't know or who have lied about their sex?

[SarahB]

50. Sure

And just because you want to sleep with someone (or they want to sleep with you) doesn't mean you have to choose to act upon it. When I was younger, everything just seemed like such a BIG deal. The older I get the more I realize, sexual tension whether acted upon or not, isn't the same as love and commitment anyway.

Besides, the best lovers usually start from friendship anyway if both parties take it there.

[Guava Jelly]

55. You are very wise SarahBelle

Wise indeed :thumbsup:

[SarahB]

75. Wise ass maybe.

:P

[Guava Jelly]

82. "Wise" and "ass" are both good things

:D And to be blessed with both attributes. :P

[RevolutionaryActs]

51. Hmmmm

I'm not sure, but to be on the safe side I'm going to put you on ignore. :rofl:

[Guava Jelly]

54. You are very wise

:rofl:... :hi:

[buddhamama]

52. Yes!;

men and women can be friends, as you well know, Buddy. :) :hi: :hug:

[Guava Jelly]

53. buddhamama!!

:woohoo:
I do well know my friend! :pals: :loveya:

[RainDog]

58. I don't agree with the rant, but I don't know how to vote on the poll

as others have mentioned... I'm a little confused about what I'd be voting for.

however, yeah, men and women can be friends but yeah, they have to decide not to look at each other as potential sexual partners. and never get drunk together when one of them has gone through a break up. :rofl:

I really like men (sort of obvious, maybe) because girls used to kick sand in my face on the playground. :)

But honestly, girls pull the sort of crap on each other that I've NEVER seen males do with/to their friends. --same sex friends are good too... I've just never gotten the sort of hostility from males that I've gotten from females.

[Guava Jelly]

68. I must admit this was a poorly designed poll

I should have made it a normal thread..
:)
Sane advice :thumbsup:

[RainDog]

71. nah.. good idea for a poll

just maybe right before it, a question by itself.

believe me, sometimes I know I type things on this site that are total.. huh? moments for others because I'll decide to delete something or I'll add something and not give it context...

I'm glad you're a guy who can be friends with women. smooooches!

[DarkTirade]

61. I voted 'other' (and not to just be difficult. This time. :P )

because it really depends on the people. Some men can't have women as just friends without wanting to bone them. Some women are the same way. Some can handle it if it's a friend who they aren't physically attracted to. And some can handle it just fine no matter what. Most of the people I know are capable of staying friends even if they have a crush on someone. Yeah, it can get awkward and in the way a bit, but it's still possible. :P

[Guava Jelly]

69. Exactly

:thumbsup:

[Karenina]

63. Every relationship between two people is different.

Sometimes we can, sometimes we can't. It depends on the individuals, their environs and is also not an either/or. Defining what friendship is can be likened to trying to grasp a greased pig. The only two who can define it are the two who maintain it.

[SPKrazy]

66. Yes, they can

and it is different than men and men being friends or women and women being friends, but they can be friends and they are. I have several women friends. I have men friends as well.

JMO

[Oeditpus Rex]

73. The rant is a male excuse

to avoid anything more than casual contact (presuming they work together or something) with a woman said male finds appealing but has no chance with.

OR, it's a rather sly way of saying, "I think you're totally hot and would love to jump you, but I can't just come out and say that, so instead I'll turn this into a Big Sociological Thing that'll make you realize how deep I am, which in turn will make you want to jump me — or, at least that's my plan."

Either way, I hate it because it feeds the Cro-Magnon notion that men have to boink every woman they find attractive lest their boy bits fall off and become ad hoc cat toys.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

78. OMG.

That was hilarious. And wonderfully true.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

:)

[dropkickpa]

76. Yep, they can

I'm bi, so I'd have no friends at all if I abided by that.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

77. I have opposite-sex friends, and I don't want to jump any of their bones.

I welcome the opportunity to chill with males--it's different from chillin' with other females, in some slight way.

:shrug:

:)

[Pushed To The Left]

79. Of course men and woman can be friends.

Many relationships can begin as friendships, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for the friendship.

[Withywindle]

80. The idea that they can't be friends is thoroughly insulting to both genders.

Most of the arguments I've seen against it boil down to some varation on this:

1) Of course no man could ever enjoy a woman's company for its own sake. If he's hanging around her, he MUST want to bone her, because otherwise why bother with uninteresting and alien female chatter?

2) Of course no woman could ever anjoy a man's company for its own sake. Men are stupid and monosyllabic and have their brains in their pants, and she MUST either enjoy sexual power over him (knowing he wants to bone her) or be immature and afraid of a REAL (read: sexual and exclusive) relationship.

3) Men and women are separate species who can never just understand and enjoy and like each other. There has to be some hanky-panky going on or else they would never ever ever choose each other's company to share jokes or go to rock shows together or play checkers or go on road trips or make signs for political rallies or have dinner or watch movies or make fun of the boss or trade tapes or go bookshopping or......

[FunkyLeprechaun]

81. Yes

In the UK it's quite natural to have male friends and not date them. My mum had some very good Irish male friends and if she saw one in the coffee shop they'd have a coffee together and chat. That's how it is in Ireland but it's different in the US.

One time someone recognised my mum chatting to her Irish male friend and told my dad she was cheating on him. My dad told that to my mum and she said, "I was having a coffee with N---! What's wrong with having a coffee with your friends?"

She was absolutely perplexed... I guess too many people watched When Harry Met Sally.

[Skittles]

83. I've pretty much only EVER had male friends n/t

[MrSlayer]

84. I agree with Chris Rock's take on it.

Men don't have women friends, we just have women we haven't fucked yet. Something is always going to happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUhwFXM6Gg&feature=related

[Iggo]

85. Yes, we absolutely can be friends.

The fictional "When Harry Met Sally" only proved that Harry and Sally couldn't be friends.