DU Academics: A question for you...need input!

[bicentennial_baby]

Ok, I'm doing a 5th year Undergrad in Economics. I was originally going to do an Independent Study in Behavioral Econ. But, this weekend, my Econometrics Prof suggested that I do the Senior Honors Thesis instead. It's a 2 semester program, resulting in a 100+ page dissertation that I will have to defend before my adviser and our Econ faculty. I will also have a "second reader", most likely within the Dept. My adviser thinks that I can do it, and that our Dept. Chair will be supportive. My adviser is willing to work with me to look at past theses and help me plan.

I'm nervous. It is a LOT of work. In the Fall, I will be taking 3 other Econ courses, and in the Spring, I plan to be taking 1 Econ course and hopefully be doing the Econ Internship, which is 16 hours a week (2 FT days).

I don't even know the ins and outs of dissertation defense, but I'm a fast study.

Advice? Would this be better for Grad school than the Ind. Study? Does the workload sound manageable?

Help!

:hi:

[DS1]

1. What's the benefit?

[bicentennial_baby]

2. Well, awesome for Grad school apps, as well as experience.

:)

[electron_blue]

3. I don't know. We don't do it this way in my field.

But... I do know that decisions from grad schools will be made long before you'll be finished with your thesis, unless you're taking a year or two off afterward. What I mean is - consider when your applications for grad school will be submitted. This is usually in Nov/Dec/Jan. All you can say then is that you're working on one, but you won't show them what you have, they won't read it, and so forth. So I don't see doing an honor's thesis as affecting a grad school in that way. However, you may very well get better letters out of your references for doing one.

Go back to your adviser and ask for more information about why you should do it.

[bicentennial_baby]

4. Good point. They feel that I should do it b/c I will

gain a lot of experience that most Econ Undergrads don't have, and that it will serve me well once I get to Grad School.

Plus, I'll graduate with Honors in Economics, which will be nice. :)

[electron_blue]

10. Experience is good!

Finding out if you really like research is good, too. I have friends who discovered they really didn't like research while in their last year of PhD program and stuck with it just to get the degree. Had they figured it out earlier, they would have found something else, more fun for them, to do. Assuming you discover that you do like research, this can help motivate you when the going's tough in grad school.

I'd say doing an honor's thesis is better than independent study, anyway. So if that's your choice, pick the thesis. The thesis implies real research - independent study often means going through many textbooks and references, but not original research.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Exactly...

I have high goals, and I think this is the correct choice, even though I am intimidated by it. Thank you so much for your advice!! :pals:

[electron_blue]

16. Oh, gosh. If you only knew the number of things I've done over the years

that I was initially incredibly intimidated by. I bet you'll do a great job at it!

[SallyMander]

5. Do you want to do research eventually?

It could be a really good gauge of where your interests lie. I did an undergrad honors thesis and it was that experience that really made me fall in love with research. I just loved the whole process -- collecting and analyzing data, writing it up for publication, etc (yup, i'm a big nerd). Before that i'd been on the fence about going to vet school. So when i fell in love with research, i took a year off, worked as a field assistant for a bunch of biology projects, and then went back to school.

Do you feel that you need to go straight from undergrad to grad school? The whole thing might be way more manageable if you take a year off in between... then you can finish and defend without having to worry about grad school apps on top of it all. And it could be a much needed break. I sometimes wish i'd taken more than 1 year off, since those field jobs were such a blast!

Not sure how relevant this all is in your field... but keep me updated! :hug:


Edit for typo :silly:

[bicentennial_baby]

6. At my age, I should go straight through, but...

hopefully the internship will yield a job, or at least connections to a job, and then yes, I will take a year off. I really should, as I will need to concentrate on the GRE and such, etc. So in that respect, doing this is probably a good idea and will be a good showing on my Grad school apps. No?

:hug:

[SallyMander]

7. Oh, it'll definitely look good on the applications

I'm not sure if your field is the same, but in biology publications are *everything*. So the fact that i'd published my undergrad thesis (even though it was in a podunk journal) was a really good asset. I'm sure you CAN do it -- it's just a matter if you want to!

[bicentennial_baby]

8. I'm just super nervous...

I have that problem where no matter what I do, I feel like I'm a fraud. But, my faculty have faith in me, and I just got a pep talk phone call from a friend who is doing the Honors Thesis in Econ, and he says that I can do it, and we'll be doing it at the same time. I just need to build up my confidence, I guess.

:loveya: You're the best!

[SallyMander]

11. I totally know what you mean!

But you have to believe the faculty members -- they know what it takes to succeed, and they know when they have a student who's good. A side benefit of doing the thesis is that it's sure to build your confidence!

That's great that you have a friend who's doing a thesis at the same time, too -- i had a "thesis buddy," and she and i would have writing dates at the coffee shop. Definitely a good motivator. :)

:hug:

[bicentennial_baby]

13. You are correct...If all of these PhDs think I can do it, then...

I should probably trust them! :rofl:

And yeah, we're now forming our official support group. He's super happy that I'm doing it too. We're already study buddies, so it will be a natural fit. He's awesome. He and Sniffa are working on setting up a poker night soon. He's doing his summer internship with Goldman Sachs. He's my best friend at school, and I look forward to being able to lean on each other.

Thank you babe :hug:

:loveya:

PS- I may call on you for advice next year!! :D

[SallyMander]

15. Any time!

:loveya:


Although probably if you go into any detail about your project, my poor lil econ-challenged head will explode! :dunce: :rofl:

(Off-topic, but I actually have a lab-mate working on "ecological economics" -- whether you can use economic arguments for conserving biodiversity. Like, a forest ecosystem might be worth a lot more for it's water filtration, carbon sequestration, and other services, than it would be if you paved it and put in a housing development. Neat stuff!)

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Ha! I'm taking Environmental Econ right now and

Natural resource/Sustainability Econ next semester! :D

[SallyMander]

21. OMG!

That's sweet!!! I'd love to learn more about that field...

:yourock:

[bicentennial_baby]

23. I have a quiz in Enviro Econ in the morning...My Prof will be my

adviser for the thesis next year! She's also my Natural Resource Econ Prof in the Fall. She was my Stats Prof last year. :D

It's really interesting. My Prof is an Econ PhD, she worked for the EPA for a bit. I heart her. It's a field I'm verrrry interested in. I'm also taking Health Economics next semester, taught by my current Econometrics Prof. So many juicy issues, decisions, decisions.

[SallyMander]

24. Bad-azzz

Your prof sounds like such an interesting person! I love to think that there are folks on the econ side of things also worried about these issues... us biologists need your expertise! :D

If we ever manage to meet up for a beer you'll have to tell me all about these courses... SUCH interesting stuff!

Oh, and good luck with your quiz! :hug:

[bicentennial_baby]

27. She's really awesome....

She carries a list of sustainably fished fish in her purse when she goes to restaurants, so she doesn't order the overfished fishies. See why I heart her?!

I did tell her about the text messaging program for that though. :rofl:

Yes! We need to hang!!

And thank you!! :hug:

[SallyMander]

30. Aww, that's great!

I'm sitting here giggling about how many variants of "fish" you just used in one sentence :rofl:

:loveya:

[bicentennial_baby]

31. I didn't know how else to phrase it! I'm tired!

:rofl:

:loveya:

[YDogg]

9. I'd say go for it.

I'd also scout out the specific requirements for grad programs you are considering to get a sense of whether the senior honors thesis would give you a boost above applicants with the minimal qualifications.

Not to suggest that this would be the case for your proposed independent study, but my perception is that some independent studies are an easy way out of something more rigorous. I completed at least one independent study in grad school and it was pretty slack even though I was committed to it; the supervising prof didn't have much time for me, so it was much less involved than even taking a decent course. Graduating with honors sounds better in the long run.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. I think so too...

As I said above, I will most likely take a year off btwn Undergrad and Grad, and I will be able to put it on my apps once it is finished . I would already be graduating with high honors in general, but graduating with honors in my department would be fantastic. I suppose that if my faculty have faith in me, I should too. :)

Thanks so much! :hi:

[RainDog]

17. I did one

sounds like much the same thing... an undergraduate thesis in my major as part of the honors program. I don't know what sort of goodies yours has as a possible reward (didn't know about my own, actually) but I won a dept. award for my thesis and a college-wide award that was a nice chunk of change for me at that time.

and it did look good for my app to grad school. don't know how much it mattered, tho.

the best thing about it for me was that my advisor had me attend one of her grad seminars. I started doing grad level research then and, even tho this was covered somewhat as an undergrad, got into one theory pov quite a bit.

In my advisor's class, I heard what grad students were talking about and I thought... I can do this. In fact, one student used to regularly crib my notes on my copies of papers and bring them up as talking points in class!

If you have profs that like what you're doing and want to mentor you, that's something to take advantage of because the perks and potential opportunities that come from this are much greater than any amt. of work you do for the thesis, if you want to go to grad school.

[bicentennial_baby]

22. My Profs seem to be nurturing as their Econ hatchling...

I think that I should heed their advice, as they seem very willing to help me along the way. They love me. I need to dig deeper and see what it'll be about.

Thank you so much for your input! :pals:

[flvegan]

18. The question is: what job/career are you looking to land?

:cue audio of: WHADDYOU WANNA DO WITH YOUR LIFE???!!!

Do NOT answer that you want to rock. Just don't.

[bicentennial_baby]

20. Frankly, I don't know right now...

I do know that I want my Grad degrees in Econ or Public Policy. I most likely want to work in gov't or non-profit, but maybe teach and publish. I'm still feeling that out.

And, I'm always rocking. Duh! :headbang:

[spindrifter]

25. If your thesis is really good, you should aim

for presenting it at a professional meeting and possibly publication. Both will showcase you for grad. school.

[bicentennial_baby]

26. That's my secondary plan!

First I need to work through the intimidation factor, and yes! That's exactly what I want to do. The Fed in Boston has a Behavioral Econ dept. and I'd love to present there. :)

Thank you!! :)

[spindrifter]

35. Si, se puede!

[Pierre.Suave]

28. I think you should do it.

and I think you will ROCK IT!!!!!!!!!!

:hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

29. Awwww! Thank you!

I'm so nervous...but, I'm gonna do it! w00t!

:pals:

[Pierre.Suave]

32. Woot Woot!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :beer: :yourock: :rofl:

[Shakespeare]

33. I'd do it, and for a few reasons.

1. It's good practice for grad school, and will give you a leg up on your peers when you get to grad school.

2. If it's good enough, you just might be able to get it published in an academic journal, which is just about the best thing you can have on a grad school app (undergrads simply don't publish, unless you DO, which will make you an academic badass).

3. Your profs have already shown an interest in helping you guide your academic career, so taking their advice is not just a smart thing to do (assuming they know best), but keeps you firmly entrenched as professors' pet, and that's a mighty good place to be (I speak from experience with that).

It's a win, win, win, win, work your ass off, win, win, win. :hi: :loveya:

[bicentennial_baby]

34. Oh thank you so much...

You are so right. I know that they want me to publish, and they are nudging me towards the Honors Thesis. I was just emailing with my Dept Chair, we're meeting on Weds morning to discuss it, as he has the final say in whether or not it happens. he was fine with the Ind. Study, so hopefully he will be fine with this.

And, if you didn't see above, my Econ bff at school is also doing it next year, so I have a support group/study buddy already. :D

:loveya:

:hug:

[Shakespeare]

36. Another thing you can do with that thesis....

...is present it at an academic conference (or two). As you get close to finishing it, ask you profs (and keep an eye out on your own) for calls for papers for relevant conferences, and submit that puppy. I ended up presenting three different papers when I was working on my MA, and was the only masters level student in my program to do so). And that's a whole other good and fun experience.

[Midlodemocrat]

38. I completely agree with this.

If your profs are willing to assist you, there is a better than average chance you will get published if not in a journal, at a paper session.

I say go for it. :loveya:

[Piltdown13]

37. I'd also say go for it.

True, it's a lot of work, but it will be well worth it, for the reasons others have already mentioned. And the defense part will probably not be nearly as scary as it sounds now -- I know mine wasn't (we also had a "public oral defense" of our equivalent of the honors thesis -- I think we called it "independent work for distinction" -- and the "public" part turned out to be the 4 readers of the thesis -- no one else showed up!). Though I look back now and laugh -- at the meeting the college held for all of us IWDers in the late fall, I asked what the defense would be like, and the guy running the meeting said, "Like defending an MA thesis." Lots of help there, buddy!

As far as the workload goes, it's always hard to speculate on what's manageable for someone else. I can tell you that I passed my undergrad honors thesis with flying colors, even though I was taking an overload both semesters (I was doing a dual degree program, and *had* to be done in 4 years due to funding) and running on the track team. I didn't sleep much the last month or so before the thing was due, but it was definitely worth it -- it really made me certain that my decision to go to grad school was the right one.

EDITED for clarity -- guess my memory is getting a little hazy now, 11 years after the fact :-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Just one word of caution here

In general, I'd say yes, but a few days ago, you posted about the heavy burdens of family concerns that you have.

Can you really handle all of this at the same time? I don't know you, so I don't know whether you're

a) A type who can bury yourself in work as a distraction from personal problems

or

b) A type who becomes unable to work when preoccupied with personal problems.

If you're a), then definitely go for it. If you're b), then think twice.

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. The most challenging, work-intensive route is generally the way to go at all times.

That's how one gets recognized and boosts one's career.

Especially if a Prof is suggesting it, you'd be foolish not to do so.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. honestly, the workload doesnt sound undoable. so that shouldnt hold you back.