The car that I want apparently sucks - what should I do?

[soleft]

had my heart set on buying a used Jetta, but I just logged onto consumer reports, and they pretty much say run far far away. They specifically say it's one of the worst, most unreliable used cars.

I don't know, I owned 2 jettas and I loved them both. One ran for 13 years even after being in 2 accidents.

I was going to look at one Sat, 2000 model, 1 previous owner, nothing on the carfax report, 84 thousand miles and a sunroof!

In the consumer forum on consumer reports everyone said it's a great car to drive but unreliable and expensive to repair.

Honda Toyota and Nissan seem to be what they recommend. But where's the Farfenugen?

[LeftyFingerPop]

1. Well...

If you have owned two of then and have had good luck, I'm not sure if I would let consumer reports sway me.

However, what model years did you own? If they were substantially older or newer than what you have personal experience with, I would do a little more research, because something may have fundamentally changed from what you are accustomed to with the vehicle.

Good luck.

[soleft]

17. I had an '87 and an '01

Which were very different designs. The used model I would get would be close to the '01 model. I wish I had never sold it but at the time I couldn't afford keeping a car in the city. Insurance was 300 bucks a month!

[RainDog]

2. just now saw your post (via your link)

I LOVE the way that jetta's drive... they are one of the few reasons I'd want to drive a five speed again. I had an mgb convertible years ago and the jetta is like a more substantial version of the way an mg rides... but hopefully w/o the reliability problems.

I drove my mg full of stuff when I left Miami... drove it more than a thousand miles and it was fine... it was just after that that it started to croak. I ended up selling it to someone who taught car repair... even tho it was vintage! oh well.

I never knew jettas were rated so badly b/c they always had a good reputation among ppl I knew. The last two cars I've had were American and I really wonder if I want to own an American car after this... I WANT to buy American, but I've had bad experiences. The mechanic I last saw told me my car (a about 6 y/o with less than 40k miles) should in NO WAY have a problem it's developing. He told me to contact the manufacturer.. I don't have much hope of any response, if I did.

as far as the best used cars - yeah, Honda and Toyota have the best reps and highest resale value. I've never bought a new car and never will, maybe by the time I need a new car a few used hybrids will start showing up.

As far as going with the jetta - maybe it depends on how much the asking price is, how far you drive during a week, whether you have access to public transport or some other transport if you need it, whether you have a mechanic you trust who can check it out before you buy and fix if it's a problem. I would talk to a mechanic about the car in relation to where you live.. how long the wait for parts, etc.

[soleft]

18. My next car will definitely be a hybrid.

I just need something to tide me over til I can afford to buy a new one. By then I hope they are standard.

[Robeson]

3. Mrs Robeson has a new Honda Fit, and loves it...

...it was also picked as Car and Driver's Best Small Car in its 2007 and 2008 10 Best lists...

[soleft]

19. They are very cute those Fit's

If I could afford a new car I'd get one.

[harmonicon]

4. huh... interesting

That's the sort of car I also wanted (I won't be buying a new - new to me, but used - car for two more years though). Poop.

I can say that my dad was looking for new cars a little over a year ago and was thinking of getting a new jetta, and wound up with a Mazda 3, which he really loves. I've driven it, and it is quite a nice car.

[soleft]

20. I actually don't like the new Jettas

Don't like the design of the body - to me it's lost its unique look.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. There was a major redesign in 1999, so...

this Jetta is nothing like the ones you had.

But, the powertrain is the same as in the new Beetle and some other stuff, so should be OK. There was a 10 year powertrain warranty that may still be in effect, too.

If you're prepared to lay out for possible wierd repairs, like body leaks and stuff, or expensive ones like out of warranty transmission replacement, go for it. If such things would break you, get something else cheaper, preferably for cash.

Face it-- any used car is a crapshoot, but a fine running Jetta may be worth the risk. Get any warranty in writing, and think about an extended warranty-- as with any 8 year old car with no maintenence records.

This talk of expensive VW repairs fascinates me. A while back Car Talk did a survey of dealerships and found Honda was the most expensive common brand. Dealer service charges were close to BMW, but a peg lower than Mercedes. My own experience with Toyota, even avoiding the dealer, is that Toyota parts are generally vastly more expensive than domestics and the cars are often more difficult (ie.- expensive) to work on than some other makes.

Maybe VWs are expensive to fix, but I doubt that much more than the other opotions.

[soleft]

21. Thanks for the info on Honda and Toyota

[ChoralScholar]

6. Well, unreliability is relative...

it depends on what you're buying -

for example - if you buy the Jetta and have problems with it, parts cost a lot more, and fewer mechanics will touch it -

contrast this with a 1/2 Ton Chevrolet pickup. While it may be unreliable as well (or maybe not), the parts will be cheap and plentiful, and any mechanic will work on it.

So... it depends on availabilty of parts and auto techs...

[soleft]

22. A friend of mine just told me she has a great VW mechanic

she can recommend. Right near where I'll be living. Thanks.

[jakefrep]

7. Screw Consumer Reports - get what you like.

I'm not sure I've ever owned a vehicle that they recommended - and I've had very little trouble with cars.

I had a VW Passat and had a generally positive experience with it.

[soleft]

23. Cool, thanks!

[FloridaJudy]

8. My sister has one and loves it.

The only problem she's had with it is having parts (hubcaps, side view mirrors, windshield blades) stolen with great regularity. But I don't think you can blame the manufacturer for that.

[soleft]

24. On my old ones I had the emblem in the front grill stolen 2x

[jobycom]

9. I used to sell luggage, and Consumer Reports led more people astray on luggage.

They clearly had some agenda, despite their claims.

I'd ignore them. In fact, I frequently make buying decisions by doing the opposite of what they suggest, on the few occassions I've run across their suggestions. And I've never been disappointed doing so.

[soleft]

25. Thanks. I guess I'll cancel my subscription post haste

[JCMach1]

10. Check people's comments online for the year you are looking at

Here is an excellent site... VW has declined over the past couple of years in quality so be VERY careful :(

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/default.aspx

or specifically: http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=2513


Yikes, don't even think about taking a Golf... I have had two people I know who have had nightmares with them recently.

[soleft]

26. Definitely not looking for a Golf.

Or even a Beetle, tho they're so cute!

[JCMach1]

40. Caveat emptor- It's not your daddy's VW these days

They have lost a pretty big market share in UAE because of their quality issues over the last 2-4yrs.

[ghostsofgiants]

11. My dad owns two Jetta TDIs and the only problem he's had that I know of...

Is stolen hubcaps.

[soleft]

27. You're the 2nd person who's mentioned stolen hubcabs.

I'm parking it in a secured lot during the day, and at night I'll be parked in a quiet farely safe community. So hopefully...

[Fenris]

12. jobycom is right about taking CR with a grain of salt.

However, VW's quality control has been dismal of late (the myriad of complaint letters you see in Car and Driver is an indicator that "fun to drive" does not always translate into "well-built and reliable") and reliability has suffered. What's hilarious about CR is that they tell you how awful the Jetta's reliability is and then in the same issue strongly recommend it as a new vehicle. Following their logic, you should own a Jetta for two or three years, take a modest depreciation hit, and then sell the car to someone who will have the car when the car starts to encounter serious reliability problems. So while they strongly recommend the 2008 model to potential new buyers, the Jettas from 1998-2007 (!) are touted as being among the least reliable vehicles on the road!

First year reliability is acceptable across the board for a new car (there are exceptions). CR's analysis covers eight years of vehicle ownership. The industry analyzes trends among drivers and their cars and typically give the average car a life span of ten years, a very conservative number. So by that standard, eight years is near the end of a car's life cycle. But cars can run well beyond the 10 year/100,000 mile mark. CR's map of eight years shows VW at the very bottom of the auto companies in terms of reliability; Toyota and Honda are at the top, of course.

My point is that reliability can be an unreliable statistic. Your mileage may very, so to speak. But you should consider what consumer analysis says (there are *other* consumer-oriented publications out there besides CR).

[soleft]

28. I hope to get 5 years and 100K out of it.

I've decided to go for '02 instead of the '00, so maybe those two years will help.

[Lady Freedom]

13. Get some...

Makes ya feel better!

[soleft]

29. Actually I'm probably going to have to cut down on the drinking

Since I'll be driving more. No more beer pong after softball.

[MissHoneychurch]

14. Normally Volkswagen is reliable

and here in Germany a lot og VW's are driving around.

Just my two cents.

[soleft]

30. I didn't realize you were in Germany

Wow, do you drive on the autobon?

[MissHoneychurch]

35. Of course

:D

But most of the time it is speed limit. Around 120 or 130 km/h. But you still can drive fast at some places. Then I go up to 160 km/h, sometimes up to 180 km/h. 200 km/h is too fast for me. I can tell I don't have the control anymore.

Born and raised German here who loves the U.S. :hi:


Edit to add: My mom drives a VW Touran and it took us without problems to the Ukraine and back.

[billyskank]

54. She's driven me down the Autobahn.

I've never seen a Punto go so fast. :o

[MissHoneychurch]

60. Hey, I didn't drive THAT fast

... at least not in the construction area

:hide:

[billyskank]

55. Your VWs are built in Germany.

The Americans' ones are built in Mexico. They may not be the same. ;)

[Godhumor]

15. The big hit VW took was the oil sludge issue from a few years ago

Essentially, newer VW models, including the Jetta, built up an incredible amount of gunk in the oil pump, and then proceeded to stop working. The repair to fix the pump cost in the mid 5 figures and for the longest time VW refused to honor it under warranty (I believe the reason given was excessive use by the driver--i.e. it was the operator's own damn fault.).

If you google vw and oil sludge, you get some interesting hits.

[soleft]

31. I just found out from my friend she sued VW over the oil pump issue

She got 2500 from them.

[flvegan]

16. Housemate has a 98, only a couple problems in the last 5 years.

Electrics seem to be the biggest problem. Namely the power windows. Otherwise, pretty solid, reliable car.

[soleft]

32. I so don't need power window.

But I think the car I'm looking at is fully loaded. So, probably has power everything.

[Runcible Spoon]

68. zactly. electronic systems go fritz, especially door locks....

but the things DO go 200k+ miles in their lifetime. I've had two, an 87' when I was just starting to drive and a 97' I got used. 97' had no discernable problems out of the ordinary except for teh factory sound system and power locks/windows went fritzy pretty quickly and after 4 or 5 attempts to fix just gave up. Now I just settle for the fact that it runs well even if i can only lock it from the passenger's side and only open two windows. Still, the little da da dee dee da da dee dee song it makes when u put the key in the ignition does something magical to me!

[Pierre.Suave]

33. I can tell you the experience two of my friends have had

The first, has a VW Beetle, the new one. Same drivetrain as the Jetta. She has had nothing but problems with hers, she will not be keeping past the warranty period.

The Second has a Jetta. he also has had nothing but problems with his, and will not be keeping it past the warranty period.

my advice, if you want it is to stay far far away from this car unless you have a very good mechanic and are willing to put his kids through college maintaining the car.

[soleft]

44. that's pretty much what I read on CR

Thanks.

[Deep13]

34. Unfortunately, that has been my experience too.

I have a 2002 Jetta wagon and it has had electrical problems with the remote control door keys, the wipers stopped working twice and I needed a $600 brake job once. It takes its own brand of coolant and uses weird 5W40 oil. Plus the radio kind of sucks. And neither the heater nor the a/c work very well. On the plus side it is a very solid car.

[soleft]

45. Solid is key since I'll be doing a lot of highway driving

I had 2 collisions in my first Jetta and no one got hurt.

[Deep13]

50. Well, it is solid.

It was the electrical and minor problems that almost left me stranded. The wipers stopped working twice due to mechanical failures both times during storms and one of those times 600 miles from home in a blizzard. Also, I had an ignition coil begin to crap out on me in the PA forest. My previous 3 cars ('86-'03) were 1977 or 8 Chev. Novas which have never had either a wiper problem or an ignition problem.

[CreekDog]

36. Never buy a VW with 80k miles on it, that's when you sell one

i like the way they drive too, had a '99.5 Golf right after the redesign midway through the model year. unfortunately started burning oil rather suddenly at around 80k miles. i traded it in at 100k as the powertrain warranty was expiring. mine was built in Germany by the way and those apparently were more reliable than the Brazil vintage --Jettas are made in Mexico I think.

by the way, the powertrain warranty is halved for the 2nd owner, so at that age and mileage, you won't have a powertrain warranty.

[soleft]

46. Now looking at an 02 instead of 00

How does that factor with powertrain?

[CreekDog]

49. i'd still be nervous

vw's are wonderful except when stuff goes wrong with them. my Golf was pretty reliable except for the oil thing. that said, it still went through a power window, 2 maf sensors, a leaking rear wiper washer (leaked inside), multiple burned out headlights (and you can't get to the one near the battery!)...

but it was a great car to drive.

i have a subaru now, not exciting, but great in snow and never a problem.

my theory on vw's is buy them under warranty or buy them real cheap and find a good independent mechanic.

:hi:

[TommyO]

58. Similar VW Jetta issues here

I had an '01 Jetta TDI, and while I loved the car, it's handling, ride, and overall feel, I went through *FOUR* MAF sensors and more headlights than you can count, and getting to that one was a bear!

[deucemagnet]

37. Have you looked at the Hyundais?

You can get a lot more bang for your buck in a Sonata than in a Jetta.

[soleft]

47. I was just on a Hyundais site. I'll have to give it another look

[kwassa]

38. Look at other auto online forums ....

I did when I was shopping for a wagon in '04, and there were very few models of wagons on the market then. Try Edmunds, and others that host comments from readers.

The Passat got extremely mixed reviews in the reliability category, though my sister has one and loves it. All VW products seemed to be uneven, which is a shame because they have really nice looking cars.

I ended up buying a Chevy Malibu Maxx because I just liked it better, and I've never regretted it. It was reviewed well but sold poorly due to lack of promotion. It beat our both Passat, and Subaru, which also has a spotty reputation.

[soleft]

61. Malibu new or used?

[kwassa]

67. bought it new, was totaled in an accident, then bought used

the second car was an 05 bought in 07 for 16,000 loaded with cool gadgets, like XM radio and remote start and DVD player. Copy of the first car in a different color.

Protected me well in an accident where someone in the far right lane driving too fast hit a pool of ice and water and proceeded to fly sideways across the freeway for several lanes at high speed. I could not avoid, airbags deployed, car totaled but I was uninjured.

[billyskank]

39. If they've got a bad rep, that just means they'll be cheap

Go for it. Get the 1.9 turbodiesel if you can find one; it'll be as efficient as all hell and yet pleasant to drive at the same time.

[JCMach1]

41. and all the money you save on fuel you can hand over to your mechanic

:(

[billyskank]

42. The thing I don't understand it

it is true VW are quite unreliable. In the customer surveys, they come near the top of the least reliable cars. (The best ones are all Japanese).

But I drive a Skoda, and the one before it was a Skoda as well. They are both very reliable, and Skoda cars always do well in the satisfaction surveys. Yet Skoda are part of the VW/Audi group. The cars are made with all the same parts. They should be the same?

[JCMach1]

43. there are some significant differences... and all of the consumer reports, even owner reviews

can only build a partial picture... If you luck out and get a good VW, you are a lucky person. However, I have had two people in the past two months I know completely have their VW Golf go out completely. One was a 2004 with basically the drivetrain shot and (of course) just out of warranty.

While Toyota has come down a bit, it's still close to the top along with Hondo, Nissan, Hyundai and a few other brands... American brands with the exception of Chrysler have come up as well... German, British, French and Italian makes are notorious for maintenance expense and issues. Audi and Volvo tend to be a bit better build. However, if you like the car, certainly you can try to find a gem. I really loved my Peugeot 307SW when I bought it, but coming up on the end of warranty I had the seriously maintenance feeling... this especially came from the crappy automatic transmission built by Porsche in the car. The dollar signs went off in my head and I got out of the car while the going was good.

80K is a lot of miles on a VW THESE days.

I now own a Hyundai Terracan... perfect for dealing with the roads, traffic, and the family here in the sandlands.

[soleft]

48. I didn't think they had the turbodiesel in US

[billyskank]

52. I'm in England. Turbodiesels are wildly popular this side of the pond.

I think it's because they're really good to drive. Sure they sound a bit rough compared to a petrol engine, but modern cars have so much soundproofing in the engine bay you can't hear that much. And they feel much faster than their horsepower suggests, because they have scads of torque from low revs.

[GOPisEvil]

53. There are TDI's here in the states.

A bunch of them, in fact.

[NoGOPZone]

51. My neighbor bought a Jetta two years ago because she liked its appearance

That's the ONLY good thing she's ever said about the car. She's already thinking about getting something else.

I'll second the Honda Fit recommendation I saw above. A coworker has one and loves it. I've not driven it, but I've been in it an was very impressed. If I was in the market for a vehicle, that's the one I'd get.

[soleft]

59. But it has a sun roof!

What do you drive?

[NoGOPZone]

63. I drive a Saturn ION

No complaints. What I like about the fit is that it's a hatchback. That can be useful

[slutticus]

56. My '05 has been nothing but great to me.

No problems whatsoever.

[soleft]

57. I like your user name

LOL!

[slutticus]

62. Thanks! BTW, is consumer reports worth it?

I've been thinking about joining.

[soleft]

65. Don't know. I just signed up to check out cars.

I was going to email all my friends and ask them if they wanted anything researched before I cancel. Anything I can research for you?

[Nickster]

64. We used to drive VW and the quality def went down in the last ohhh 7 years approx.

We'd lease a new one every year and the quality just got worse and worse. That was about the time that they started building most of the VW line in Mexico. Most of the issues are electrical for some reason. My last Jetta just turned off all the lights and electric while driving in the middle of a real dark rainy night, no lights inside or out and no windshield wipers. Then of course, it cleared up and the service dept couldn't figure out what I was complaining about, until the next time the electric just stopped, rinse lather repeat. The check engine lights go on and off for no reason, etc. Most of the repairs if off warranty are quite pricey. If you're not going for an older model, I'd stay away.

[bullwinkle428]

66. Google "VW lemons", and there will be no shortage of hits!!

Honestly, I spent LOTS of time on VW forums a few years back when I was really jonesing for a Passat. I had test driven the car...loved the "driving feel", was very impressed with the build quality, loved the overall look of the car. HOWEVER, I could not ignore all of the opinions of long-time VW owners, who had to admit all of the reliability-related issues they've dealt with over the years. I was a long-time Honda loyalist who made the "safe" decision and just went ahead with a new Accord. Six plus years and some 158,000 miles, I can't say I regret my decision as I've not had ONE problem with the car since I drove it off the lot!

Now, they're tempting me again with the idea of a 69-mpg diesel hybrid! At least it's not on the market yet. I should hurry up and buy a Prius so I don't have to face that decision!