Is it dangerous for children to know that atheism exists?

[pokerfan]

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/04/rep-monique-dav.html

Audio:
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/files/DAVIS.mp3

[NNadir]

1. We are used to this hatred. George H. W. Bush said that atheists could not be citizens.

There is very little new here.

[pokerfan]

4. I remember that

and I haven't forgotten.

The following exchange took place at the Chicago airport between Robert I. Sherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27, 1987. Sherman is a fully accredited reporter, and was present by invitation as a member of the press corps. The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce federal disaster relief for Illinois. The discussion turned to the presidential primary:

RS: "What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?"

GB: "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me."

RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

GB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

RS: "Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?"

GB: "Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists."

[Fox Mulder]

2. I'd rather have children know atheism exists instead of...

a magic man in the sky.

[drmeow]

3. Only to organized religion

and the power structure - if that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. Well, to the extremists anyway.

[Ptah]

5. This is a trick question, isn't it.

The egg.

[Connonym]

6. Funny, I always figured kids were pretty much born atheists

[Oeditpus Rex]

19. They're born nekkid, too

Y'know, I bet there's a connection there.

[DarkTirade]

25. Then why does nekkidness often lead to the rhythmic chanting of 'Oh God, Oh God..."?

:P

[Oeditpus Rex]

27. Not with BEBBEHS it doesn't!

Pev! :spank:

[DarkTirade]

36. I would hope not...

I mean, babies can't even talk yet. :P

[BeachBaby]

33. Amen. ;) n/t.

[ChoralScholar]

7. I reject any idea where we

shield people from reality, in order to change the very same reality....

[liberaltrucker]

8. It's dangerous for children to know that RELIGION exists

nt

[Lorien]

9. OMG, how absurd! I was raised atheist

and I'm glad that I was! My mom is now a born again, and since moving to Florida I've met a lot of fundie parents. I think that THEIR beliefs put kids at risk. Some of them belt their children hard enough to leave welts ("spare the rod, spoil the child"). Their sexual repression screws the kids up for life, and teaching their daughters that they are "paying for Eve's sins" sure as hell isn't healthy.

:crazy:

[IzaSparrow]

10. wow...

that was an interesting article, and the replies are great too.

[Quantess]

11. Only if they'll get beaten for talking about atheism.

Seriously, are people thinking Satan will sieze the opportunity to possess the child at the moment he/she learns some people don't believe in god?

[pokerfan]

13. I think Bertrand Russell said it best

Fear, the Foundation of Religion

Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.

What We Must Do

We want to stand upon our own feet and look fair and square at the world -- its good facts, its bad facts, its beauties, and its ugliness; see the world as it is and be not afraid of it. Conquer the world by intelligence and not merely by being slavishly subdued by the terror that comes from it. The whole conception of God is a conception derived from the ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men. When you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. It needs a fearless outlook and a free intelligence. It needs hope for the future, not looking back all the time toward a past that is dead, which we trust will be far surpassed by the future that our intelligence can create.

Electronic colophon: This electronic edition of "Why I Am Not a Christian" was first made available by Bruce MacLeod on his "Watchful Eye Russell Page." It was newly corrected (from Edwards, NY 1957) in July 1996 by John R. Lenz for the Bertrand Russell Society.

[Not_Giving_Up]

12. It's dangerous for them NOT to know

I was raised by Southern Baptist Hypocrites...We were not allowed to question what we were taught...any questioning meant that the devil was working on you, and you needed to pray more. Both of my kids are being raised to know that some people believe in a supreme being, others do not. They are free to choose when they are old enough to make that choice for themselves.

Brainwashing children IS dangerous!

[Inchworm]

14. It is dangerous to withhold ideas

no matter what ones they are.

:hi:

[RainDog]

15. I really, really despise talibornagains

really.

I mean, really.

that said, my fundie brother, who isn't rabid, but probably is, and my fundie sister, who isn't rabid but is still a fundie, are going to Israel with their spouses next month...to study the bible with other fundies. Fundies are so much more reactionary than the avg. Israeli citizen about the entire peace process that I think they are a danger to the world if they're in public office deciding issues based upon a belief that it is a good thing to bring about the end of the world so that they can go to heaven.

really makes me want to scream.

really.

I mean really.

I think I'm gonna have to start asking Europeans to green card marry me again so that I can get a job in "godless" Europe... i wish.

[Arugula Latte]

16. Jeez, my kids have known about it (maybe not with that exact label) since they were tiny.

[RainDog]

17. my kids were raised as atheists

and they are both kind, caring young men... they don't need fear to see the value in treating others with humanity... gee, neither do I!

Aren't the fundies the ones going around boinking each others' spouses and stuff (actually, my bro and sis do not fit that stereotype either.) I was even able to live with and then marry a guy and never once sleep with someone else... I guess it's amazing that I have so much self-control considering I never thought god would punish me if I made the merry in something other than missionary position...

[Lorien]

23. Yep, the fundies are doing exactly that. I'm sure there's a correlation

between their behavior and the repression and self loathing they are taught early on.

How do I know this? I'm a single atheist who has been propositioned by at least a half dozen MARRIED fundie men in the past! And of course we all see what happens to the holier than thou preachers and politicians; if they aren't dumping the mother of their children for a newer model, then they are having gay sex in a public restroom or molesting kids somewhere. I think I remember a segment on Oprah once that stated that a full 97% of child molesters were "self described devote Christians and churchgoers".

[Arugula Latte]

32. Yeah, exactly.

We teach our kids that all we have is the time on Earth. We don't need to live in fear of some hovering invisible punishing omnipotent deity. We're trying to instill in them the values of treating everyone as they'd like to be treated, helping animals whenever possible, and of being good citizens of the community and of the Earth. They've already done public service such as helping in a food bank and pulling invasive ivy from a nearby state park -- things like that.

It's the rightwing Reaganite fundies are the ones who are the ones who seem to have contempt for the poor and no scruples about stabbing each other (including spouses) in the back. Nice family values, there.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. It's more dangerous for children to be ignorant of other beliefs...

I think it's important for kids to understand as many beliefs and non-beliefs as they can cram into their heads.

[Chan790]

20. Yes.

They might get through childhood undamaged by guilt and shame for being human. Then where would we be?

[jobycom]

21. Dangerous to whom?

To the likes of Rep Davis (A Democrat? Really?), or any others who believe in crushing a child into a box they may not fit into? Why, children could grow up believing Rep Davis and others like her were small minded individuals trying to destroy freedom of thought, expression, and religion. These children may further conclude that people like Rep Davis do not belong in power, since they misuse that power to force ignorance and uninformed consent.

A child forced to believe something without alternatives may rebel against all beliefs, all calls to reason, since they know of no alternative to what they've been told. Faith requires the knowledge of a lack of belief, or it's not faith, it's just brainwashing. A child raised to understand all possibilities involving religion and the lack of it may not only be a more open-minded and thoughtful human being, no matter which path they take, but may also be more balanced in their decisions, understanding what and why they believe.

Such a child would indeed be very, very dangerous to Monique Davis, don't you think?

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. If it is, then OOOPS

Because I already told my son about it.

[Lethe]

24. smart kids will come to their own conclusions

just let em' be.

[DarkTirade]

26. Even smart people can be brainwashed.

Gotta teach the kids to think for themselves, whether they're well equipped for the task or not. :P

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. Only if you're organized religion.

:shrug:

[China_cat]

29. Here's a reason why children SHOULD know about

how harmful religion can be:

From someone I love who recently got religion

"My little girl, well she’s fourteen now has been hurting herself and threatening suicide. “She is angry with you and feels you don’t give a **** about her since you have your boys” are the exact words that were written which couldn’t be further from the truth. I love all of my children the same. Yes it seems I’m closer to the boys that live here but that’s because I am able to see them and talk to them every day. It may just be a cry for help but what if it isn’t? As her mother says this is MY issue and something I have to deal with

Actually this isn’t my issue at all because I’ve given it over to the only One who can save her which is Christ"

In other words...it's now up to god and I don't have to do a thing about it and I can feel smug that the problem is solved.

(btw, the child's mother is right. I've seen him actively ignore his daughter and her accomplishments in favor of her older brothers)

[Richard Steele]

30. If we let kids hear new ideas, pretty soon everyone will want to! nm

[PVnRT]

31. Monique Davis can go to her hell

Religious fascists, alive and well in America.

[DS1]

34. I wasn't aware that religion was a pre-existing condition

[EstimatedProphet]

35. Yes

Athiests will come and steal your babies to make nonbeliever rituals with their bones.

[Taverner]

37. No, it is my opinion RELIGION is dangerous for children

Any "authority" that can only be spoken for by the magic tea leaf readers (e.g. Preachers) is an unchecked one, and therefore dangerous.

[BarenakedLady]

38. My poor kids then.

:eyes:

[Sony65]

39. Dangerous for kids, eh?

I don't know... I'm technically a child and I feel pretty safe.

[YankeyMCC]

40. Oh lighten up atheists

it's not like atheist are the only ones who get targeted by this sort of hate speech. :sarcasm:

[kwassa]

41. This exact topic has already been around awhile in the Religion and Theology forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=168215&mesg_id=168215

Same stuff quoted.

Isn't this entirely too serious for the lounge?

[mr blur]

42. Children already know that atheism exists -

they have to be trained and conditioned to believe that supernatural stuff.