Has anyone gotten up the gumption to watch the "Meet Your Meat" vid on the homepage?

[dolo amber]

I've read enough to know I probably don't want to actually *see* it. :scared:

[JVS]

1. must resist urge to copycat

[dolo amber]

4. You hush up

:D

[ronnykmarshall]

58. Eve was weak!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7655965

[PeaceNikki]

2. Unless it's p0rn, no thanks.

[dolo amber]

5. Depends on what your definition of pr0n is

x(

[Fox Mulder]

3. I watched it.

And after I watched it, I went to Amazon and ordered a couple of vegetarian cookbooks.

That video made me sick to my stomach. I knew that the stuff in that video was going on, but I never saw it, until now.

[dolo amber]

8. I've started trying really hard to only buy humanely raised meats

I'm still trying this year to get in on a local meat CSA. They get taken pretty quickly but I'm not gonna stop looking. The alternatives are just too gruesome.

[OmahaBlueDog]

24. Actually, humanely slaughtered and raised meat nets more profit.

Animals receiving bad handling on the kill floor secrete adrenaline, which causes meat quality to fall, which costs the slaughter facility money.

Don't take my word for it. Google "Temple Grandin" (who, BTW, is one of the most fascinating and inspiring individuals on the planet -- she overcame autism to become a major player in the slaughter industry and a professor at Colorado State).

[Richardo]

25. She's the one who designed the cattle pens to be curves, right?

Fascinating woman.

[OmahaBlueDog]

52. Thats her

Curves, diffuse light, no handkerchiefs hanging from posts, lead the cattle with a bag tied to a stick -- not a cattle prod. Temple is fascinating.

[drmeow]

49. Do you know off hand

what the "best" humanely raised and slaughtered meat is? I was reading this article (which, granted, is 1 1/2 years old:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3207.cfm

and it sounds like there is some disagreement/controversy.

Is Whole Foods meat as good as it sounds?

[OmahaBlueDog]

53. I don't, BUT

I do think Whole Foods generally walks the walk.

Here's why I don't feel well positioned to answer.

You can have cattle fed organic feed, but still be fed a bad diet. Some people really don't want cattle who've been to feedlots. Some people don't want cattle who have been fed corn and or soy -- only grass or hay. Some don't want antibiotics or hormones of any sort; others will accept that risk for disease free beef. OTOH, some people want beef that's been fed a diet of beer (a la Kobe, Japan). Some will tell you just to buy Kosher/free range -- until they realize that an animal isn't stunned prior to Kosher Slaughter.

Raising pork gets into another whole range of debate. Today, most swine don't see much daylight; they are bred in barns (called farrowing facilities), weaned, and then taken to feeder barns, and then go to slaughter. The pros are that they are in biosecure environments, so diseases like hog cholera and swine flu are vastly reduced, and the swine are protected from the elements. The con is that the swine live almost their entire lives in fairly small pens or cages.

I could go on and on.

While we are quick to be critical of the megacorporations, Tyson (which also owns the former IBP slaughter facilities)and Cargill generally use the most up-to-date, humane slaughter techniques. It's not because they're nice guys; it's because it's good business, and they have the money for the best equipment and top consultants. Strangely enough, companies that get stung by PETA or the Humane Society often do turn things around (usually because failing to do so will mean an end to business as they know it). An example of this is a Kosher facility in Iowa (for legal reasons, I don't want to use the name, but you can Google it)that was engaging in horrific practices (trust me, you don't want to know), got caught, and has to call in Temple Grandin to re engineer their processes. My understanding is that they've cleaned up their act. I know of another operation in Iowa that does hog slaughter. They bought a facility with a rock bottom, horrid reputation. They upgraded their kill floor, completely redid their fabrication room (the room where carcass halves become loins, ribs, hams, and picnics), and now do a large amount of processing for an organic store in the Western US.

One little known tip. On meat that arrives at the grocery store pre-packaged, there is a USDA Establishment number. You can go to the USDA website and download the list of all the establishments, and find out exactly who slaughtered your meat:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Regulations_&_Policies/Meat_Poultry_Egg_Inspection_Directory/index.asp

For example, I recently bought pork sirloin roasts from Costco under the Kirkland brand. They came from Est 3W. Est 3W is the Swift slaughter facility at Worthington, MN.

I realize this didn't answer your question. I'm sorry.

[drmeow]

55. didn't answer your question

Don't apologize - you gave me a wonderful amount of information that will be very helpful and was VERY informative. Thank you. I find that I just CAN'T give up meat - I eat mostly chicken with some occasional pork and very rarely beef but I realize all the negatives and would like to be more mindful of the meat I do eat. How do you know all of this stuff? Also, if I know where the food has come from (I have some pork tenderloin that also came for 3W, I just checked), is there a way to check if they "do good" so to speak?

When my grandmother visits, I have to buy antibiotic free beef cause she's allergic to penicillin - once she started eating antibiotic-free beef she realized that before she'd always felt a little off or bad after eating beef. A factor the the beef industry doesn't factor in and an important reason for full disclosure.

[OmahaBlueDog]

56. You can find out if they do good, BUT

Google just about any packer and you'll find some bad. For example, 3W had a recent issue with workers getting ill in the room where the pork brains are handled (this was widely reported); they all go severe flu-like symptoms, and the theory is (forgive me if you're squeamish) that airborne brain and spine particles were breathed by the workers.

I can't give up meat either. And I don't engage in arguments with those who believe it is immoral to eat animals; it is like trying to argue about abortion or whether Jesus is the savior -- ultimately it's a matter of faith and conscience.

I have not eaten Thanksgiving turkey for years because I get mildly ill. I've had several people tell me that if I get a free range, kosher turkey, I won't have this problem.

This brings me back to your question. In the meat industry, you have suppliers (the person/company running the ranch and/or feedlot) and the packer. So, for example, if you Google anti-biotic free beef, you will typically find brand names, which either represent a consortium of growers of a specific niche (antibiotic free, grass fed, Kobe style, etc.) or a store/brand name (e.g Laura's Lean Beef) of a particular entity that has contracted with suppliers. In your case, don't settle for "our suppliers pledge" (see Ben & Jerry's hormone free write up) -- you need "our product is guaranteed" or "our product is certified" not to contain antibiotics. You need to be certain that Grandma isn't spending Xmas blown up like a balloon in a hospital.

I'm trying to remember if Kosher/Halal rules forbid antibiotics. That might also be an option, but research it first.

Packers will generally be certified for 1 species (uncommonly 2); cattle, caqttle & bison, seep, swine, turkeys, chicken -- these are generally the groupings you see. A packer may pack different niches different days. Some packers exclusively pack niche beef or pork, while many others pack different types. When looking for a packer you will or won't buy from, look at their labor record (if they don't treat workers well, that says something about their business methods elsewhere) and look for ongoing patterns of reported bad (or good) handling, not just one PETA or Humane Society expose. Again, the internet is your friend. However, I caution that packers are like restaurants -- none are perfect and often perfectly fine restaurants get rung up for code violations; the same is true of meat packers.

Also a warning on Bison; you may see or hear bison horror stories. Bison are notoriously hard to handle in the pens -- which is a possible cause of some things you may hear.

Disclaimer: I am not a rancher/feedlot/swine facility owner/turkey or chicken grower, I am not involved in the meatpacking industry, I am not a PETA member, I eat meat, I did not stay in a Holiday Inn express. I do have some level of professional interaction with aspects of the meat industry which I can't write about here, and (building on that) did a fair chunk of research.

[unpossibles]

32. good for you!

there are lots of good resources out there these days if you need help.

[BarenakedLady]

6. I can't watch

I've seen enough over the years. I'm already a vegetarian. :scared:

[dolo amber]

13. I was raised veg by my mom until I was about 11

Didn't help much that I had 2 southern grannies that considered bacon "seasoning" rather than "meat", though.

[LadyoftheRabbits]

7. I watched it last night

And I'm now a vegetarian. I've been leaning that way for a while, and that just clinched it. I was sobbing. :(

[SallyMander]

12. Another good reason to hang out at Surly Girl

(if you needed more reason)... excellent veggie fare! :D :toast:

:hug:

[LadyoftheRabbits]

15. Good point!

I'd love to go there again. :D :hug:

[unpossibles]

33. I miss the Surly Girl!

every time I go back to Columbus, I try to go to as many of the restaurants I miss as I can. Lol.

The Dube even makes the list, along with North Star, Nongs, and several others.

[SallyMander]

35. OMG, we *love* NorthStar and Nongs!

There are a lot of good restaurants here!

Next time you're in town, we should meet up for a Surly Cider! :9 :toast:

[unpossibles]

41. sounds good to me!

Actually, a friend of mine is throwing a party either nest weekend or the one after. If we come up, I'll let you know and maybe we can all grab a bite.

[SallyMander]

43. Let me know!

It would be fun if we could get the other Columbusites out and about too! :D

[dolo amber]

16. I have no problem with humanely raised and slaughtered animals

but what we do in this country (or any country with an industrialized food supply) is just f'in barbaric. x(

[LadyoftheRabbits]

19. Exactly

Meat will be eaten regardless, I just really have a problem with the mass slaughter and rampant neglect of animal agony during the process. :(

[flvegan]

21. Congrats.

Hope you'll visit us in the Veg forum if you need any help making the transition to a meat free diet:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=231

[LadyoftheRabbits]

39. Thank you

I've thought of stopping there, and doubtless will pretty soon. :D

[ThomCat]

38. Yay!

:hug:

When I finally get you to NYC we can cook together. :)

[LadyoftheRabbits]

40. Yay, indeed!

I was thinking of that... it'd be awesome. :D :hug:

[Shine]

9. no, but the image is very disturbing and bothers me

:scared:

[lost-in-nj]

10. nope

I LOVE my Beef, Chicken, pork and even some game hens

sorry to anyone I have offended.....


lost

I am actually a little annoyed by it

thought we were supposed to be

liberal...


you go your way
I go mine


getting kinda annoyed

[SallyMander]

11. I'm already a vegetarian so i don't need convincing

and i'm pretty sure it would make me ill. I read "Dead Meat" years ago and i didn't sleep for quite a while... :scared: :cry:


Edit to add -- i just realized, it's been 14 years since i ate meat! :wow:

[Monk06]

14. No different than the guy who goes around with his truck with pictures of

aborted fetuses on the side.

I get it. You're a vegan.

Half of the animal world eats the
other half. Has done since the invention
of teeth.

Get over it.

[dolo amber]

17. I'm not, in fact, a vegan

Or even vegetarian. But thanks for playing.

[SallyMander]

18. Wow... that's a pretty snarky reply to an open-ended question

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

Oh, and by the way, animals have been eating other animals since long before teeth... the difference there is, the prey items are in the *wild* up until their death, rather than factory farms. Minor quibble, i know :eyes:

[Monk06]

20. It was a test kids. I just wanted to see how long it would take to get

the morally outraged, "who pissed in your Wheaties reply"

[SallyMander]

22. Congrats

I give you a B+ in posting purposefully incendiary shit on a message board.

[Monk06]

26. Thank you. I accept the honor, especially since I posted in the lounge and

not GD or the repulsive GD-Primaries and I
didn't mention BO or HRC. Bonus points for that.

[SallyMander]

28. If you had used the word "bitter"

you might have gotten into the A range :evilgrin:

[Monk06]

42. Ah, "bitter", now that's something we Canucks can relate to....

Remember Bushes "Axis of Evil" speech? That was
a coinage by David Frum who was the evil spawn of
Barbara Frum, the doyenne of Canadian interview style
CBC journalism.

She invented the 'bonding with the interviewee' style
years before Barbara Walters.

Her favorite remark at the end of a question was,
"but are you bitter?"

SCTV did a famous satire on Barbara

[SallyMander]

44. Huh! I never knew about this

Figures that the Bush administration can't even make up their own rally-the-ignorant-masses bullshit phraseology. :puke:

[Monk06]

46. Barbara is much loved up here for her cantankerous style. Unfortunately

she died in her late fifties of cancer. Meanwhile
her much less intelligent or talented son, lives
on to contaminate the presses and airwaves with
his Yale-acquired drivel.

It's best that she expired before the Axis of Evil
meme stained her reputation.

[Monk06]

48. Here is a synopsis of an episode of SCTV's satire on the Journal

which Barbara starred in for over ten years.

The Journal

Barbara tries to talk with Colonel Gadhafi, but he's busy with Ted Koppel. Barbara then has an item on the hungarian boot, from little Hungary. The boot's lack of availability in Canada is raised in Parliament by Joe Clark. Late breaking item: egg surplus in Ontario continues.


Barbara Frum – Andrea Martin; Mary Lou Findlay - Wilcox; Colonel Gadhafi – Eugene Levy, Joe Clark – Joe Flaherty; Pierre Trudeau – Martin Short.

[Juche]

29. Personally I don't mind eating meat

After watching the video, I still have no problem with eating meat. My problem is with factory farming and inhumane slaughterhouses. If you want to raise free range cattle, then bolt them in the head and kill them instantly, I'll eat it. But factory farms are very unnerving and inhumane.

[datasuspect]

59. if free range improves the flavor of the meat

then by all means, i can support that.

but dead is dead, and meat is still meat, ostentatious displays of public virtue notwithstanding.

[Juche]

60. When did basic human maturity become ostentatious

There is a difference between freerange animals and animals that are driven insane by brutal treatment. A fish that is pulled out of water and suffocates in a few minutes is different than an animal that is driven insane from abuse and lack of stimulation. If you can't see the difference between the two I don't know what to tell you other than stock up on birth control.

[OmahaBlueDog]

23. Nope! I've visited hog and cattle slaughter facilities...

.. and I've seen where dog food comes from

..and I've gotten stuck behind a truck full of pig guts on a hot summer day.

None of it stops me from eating steak.

[nomorenomore08]

27. Heh... "truck full of pig guts."

I just watched "Saw III" last night, and if the scene with the dead rotted pigs being ground up wouldn't put someone off pork, then I don't think anything would.

[OmahaBlueDog]

54. Heve you ever been to a rendering plant?

Avoid it at all costs. If you must go, eat a light enough breakfast not to be queasy, but eat as little as possible -- hurling may be in the cards.

Inedible slaughter byproduct...downer cattle.... roadkill.... it ain't pretty, but it's all fats and proteins they can do something with.

[Ellen Forradalom]

30. Not before dinner

:puke:

[flvegan]

31. I'd already seen it, but

I clicked the link to give them the DU clickthru traffic.

I believe that veg*ism is a progressive, liberal value*, and I'd like the sponsor of the ad to know that.






*that is, not to say that if one is NOT veg that he/she is NOT progressive nor liberal. (shame I have to say that, but some folks knee jerk so hard, I'm amazed they don't blow a quad)

[unpossibles]

34. (insert knee jerk reaction here)

followed by mild snark and smiley face.

[LynzM]

36. No...

The image is bothering me enough. We lean vegetarian, and when we do eat meat, we attempt to buy local, free-range, grass-fed and non-factory-farm meat. I've read some about factory farmed pigs and cows and seen enough still images, and have an active enough imagination, and I know I could never get those images out of my head. Selfish of me, I know. :(

[flvegan]

37. Not selfish at all.

Every bite counts.

:thumbsup:

[drmeow]

50. I was just going to comment

that the image that replaced the abused pig is not much better - especially if you are a vegetarian or a vegan.

[yewberry]

45. You know, I'm really grateful that you brought this up.

After the ugly kerfuffles over the past couple of days in GD, I was feeling kind of down about this topic.

Thanks for reminding me that people care, and for encouraging others to talk about their feelings and reactions. I sort of feel like I'm not allowed to do that.

[bicentennial_baby]

47. We just watched it...and...

That might be the tipping point for me. I'm not sure about Sniffa, although he was visibly shaken. Big sigh. I knew about this, but seeing it like that...

:cry:

[Richardo]

51. You said 'gumption'

and, no.


:hi:

[Arugula Latte]

57. I just can't do it...

I rerun nightmarish scenarios involving cruelty and mistreatment of animals over and over in my head at 4 am. I don't need more footage for my brain.

I stopped eating red meat when I was a teen (saw a truck full of cattle going by ... those big, dark eyes ... :cry: )

[Miss Carly]

61. I tried to watch it just now

I was ok until the cow part, gross...poor critters
Carly

[Pushed To The Left]

62. Just watched it. Some pretty disturbing stuff!

I'm as much of a carnivore as anybody else, but that stuff needs to be regulated. What I saw on that video looked like sadism and was definitely animal cruelty. I'm not a vegetarian, but I would like to see some pretty tough regulations on the industry. A lot of what was happening on that video shouldn't be legal.