Teaching Ethics question

[Fountain79]

After grading projects from one of my classes I found that one pair had essentially copied their entire project from the internet meaning they had turned in someone else's work as their own. They are going to get a 0. After discovering that I started looking at projects that I had already graded and given the grades to the students. I found out another group had done the same thing. The only thing is that I have already given this second group their grade. Do I still have grounds to fail the second group even though I had already given them a grade?

[JVS]

1. Yes.

If you can prove that it's cheating, you have grounds. Period.

The statute of limitations, if there can even be said to be one, is after the class is over.

[flvegan]

8. I'm going with JVS on this one.

Well stated.

[Chan790]

2. Yes.

Same crime, same punishment. If you decide that you can't 0 the second group, you shouldn't 0 the first group either and that's absurd.

[quip]

3. The Fountain giveth, and the Fountain taketh away.

It's never too late to give a cheater their just reward. :hi:

[petronius]

4. Yes, definitely

If you've assigned a final course grade, then many institutions make it more difficult to adjust a grade downward than upward, but in the case of later-discovered cheating than it would certainly be approved.

It's easier to change a grade down during the quarter - the students will complain, and will think you're being unfair and don't have the right to lower a grade, but that's just one of many myths students believe.

I would fail both groups, and I would re-examine all the projects with the same rigor that I applied to the two cheating groups. I would also report both groups to the appropriate authority (Judicial Affairs, or whatever your school calls it)...

[Fountain79]

5. Grades haven't been turned in yet...

I just have the grades on my grade book on my computer. They will be turned in on Tuesday.

[Godhumor]

6. Yes, you have grounds

Grades are given based on the idea that the students have done their own work. If, at any point, that base is broken then the grade may be changed.

I've had to explain this concept to a few students and parents last year in a situation very similar to yours. It's not going to be an easy confrontation, but it is necessary.

[MissMarple]

7. Is this a rhetorical question...or do you just need some moral support?

I think a hundred lashes should do quite well.

Of course, they have the same consequences. It's OK. :hug:

This is a pragmatic teacher/parent thing. Never reward cheating. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, give me patience. Blessed be, sweetheart.

[Fountain79]

9. Moral Support...

I feel kind of silly that I let the first group get away with it at first. I feel like I should have caught it the first time.

[MissMarple]

10. I think it's just a part of being human.

Mistakes happen, luckily, we can often fix them. The kids know that. Being as fair as you can is what counts. ;)

[undeterred]

11. I had the same thing happen when I was teaching

and it was 10 years ago, when there was a lot less stuff out there. Just one student. I gave her the 'link' to the essay, and failed her.

[MorningGlow]

22. Don't trouble yourself thinking that way

I taught high school (just one year!) in the early '90s, so I didn't have to worry about Internet plagiarism, but one very shy, sweet girl turned in song lyrics as original poetry. I always posted the students' poetry on one of the classroom bulletin boards, and after the kids saw it, a few came to me and told me what the girl had done. Boy, did I feel like a stooge for missing that--and I was young, too--barely older than these seniors. I should have known the music, but I didn't. Teachers can't catch everything every time--especially because we prefer to think the students are following the rules (unless we're massive cynics).

Sorry you have to go through this, Fountain. It's awful pointing fingers and failing kids, but it has to be done.

[Fountain79]

12. Thanks for the advice everyone...

I am going to my principal tomorrow and informing of this. Hopefully I am backed up.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. You can fail them, unless ...

... unless you can't.

Situational ethics: if any of the group are star athletes, they automatically pass. Woe unto the measly professor who would cause disqualification (and possible loss of alumni money).

Also, do the students know that plagiarism is a "bad thing"? Maybe they should write (or copy) a paper on the subject.

:hi:

Good luck!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

14. Institutional high moral ground?

Does your institution reside on it?
A Prof. I have the highest regard for teaches an ethics class at a morally and ethically bankrupt state university near me. I put it to him in this way, "What could one say of the ethics of one who would teach ethics at an institution like this?" He totally understood that I was not attacking him personally and his silence bespoke volumes.

Another Prof. at the same university explained Boot Camp Ethics to me, "Most profs. suffered to get where they are and by God their students are going to suffer too."

To make a point, I cheated once and then attended a faculty meeting to confess and explain why I did it. I was tired of never getting the coveted top grades the internet cut and pasters got. My papers seldom met the required number of pages as I stopped writing when had stated what was required regardless of how long it took me to do so.
The time it took to "creatively" prepare a paper the received the highest grade was miniscule in comparison to the amount of time I was used to spending! I should add that my grades were never low, just lower than the cheaters.

So, if your personal AND institutional ethics are unimpeachable, fail the cheaters but not without rewarding those who turn in quality work that is their own.

[Lady Freedom]

15. The sooner kids learn ( I hope their kids) not to do that stuff the easer College will be!

You can get kicked out for stuff like that!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

16. $tudent$ ARE the University!

In the age of declining enrollments, economics most often dictates a response to student cheating that stops just short of a blind eye. Students may be forced to re-take a course thereby contributing yet more dollars to the university.

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Human beings are so made that the ones who do the crushing feel nothing; it is the person crushed who feels what is happening. Unless one has placed oneself on the side of the oppressed, to feel with them, one cannot understand.
--Simone Weil

[Bucky]

17. Cheating is cheating

But a zero isn't punishment enough. Each must sacrifice a finger or a sibling to the state.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

18. Retroactively...

Administrators and faculty first!

[Crazy Dave]

19. To me the students were honest

They all paid me $25 with paypal for the project. Now if you find out that only a few paid and shared the work with more people, then 0's and suspensions for those dishonest MF'ers!
:rofl:

[asteroid2003QQ47]

20. Deal with the plethora of tenured, deadwood...

"teachers" treading water towards retirement in the "educational" system
first for they are the lion's share of the "cheating" problem.

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Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to produce
citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires?
--Alan Keyes

[asteroid2003QQ47]

21. "Ethics" of failing them.

Fail them and what happens next is the wealthy parents "talk" to the principal, he may or may not consult you before he jacks up the wealthy kids grades and kids whose parents are not connected are left to twist in the wind. It happens frequently in Maine and probably elsewhere too.

Actually, THAT would make a damn good lesson in the reality of "ethics."

[Chan790]

23. Dude (or ma'am) you need to deal with that negativity.

It's not healthy and we need all the democratic voters we can get come November. I understand your point, but you seem to have a serious hate-on for the educational community. Not all teachers are running out the rope towards retirement. Not all principals and superintendents are corrupt. (And no I'm not a teacher or in any way currently employed in education. I used to be a universal literacy activist...in some ways I'm a harsher critic of the education system than you.)

How about a kickass lesson in ethics: Student skips class, does sub-par work and gets poor grade. Parents throw hissy-fit at teacher who stands resolute. Parents then go to principal who backs up teacher. Parents go to superintendent who changes grade and orders teacher to get extra credit assignment. Teacher goes to school board who investigate and find no wrongdoing. Somebody calls the local news reporter who investigates and finds proof that superintendent has been doing for years. School board gets called on carpet by state department of education and attorney general. Superintendent may get fired, pending investigation he might even go to jail. This drama occurred last year in North Branford, CT. http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6782629

Somebody is always watching who is above the fray and beyond reproach. See, there are still good people in the system.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

24. Mission statement--

"Our mission is to prepare you for life after college..."

That's about the only thing they didn't lie about, I came away more bitter, cynical and disenchanted than when I went in and in Bush America that's valuable,is it not?

Three years into an education program I changed my major. Why? I love the job and the kids but as my knowledge of the politics and bureaucracy that has become a large part of the "education" system
increased, combined with my daughter's experiences (she's taught for 18 years), I bailed.
I hope I did not give the impression of tarring all teachers and administrators with the same brush as that was not my intention.
I met some fine teachers and yes, "there are still good people in the system."