Name a great complex individual in American history

[Tommy_Carcetti]

By "complex", I mean someone who hasn't been mythologized as a "great American" by the general consensus of the people. Washington, Lincoln, Martin Luther King--while these men may have been in fact complex individuals, their legends have outshone their actual person.

I'm looking for people who had both negative and positive achievements and attributes, people who are viewed in shades of gray rather than in black or white.

[Sock Puppet]

1. W.E.B. Du Bois comes to mind

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. A couple that pop up in my head

Lyndon Johnson--one of our best presidents when it came to domestic policy and civil rights, yet one of our worst presidents when it came to foriegn policy. Also, a real son-of-a-bitch but a master politician.

Robert E. Lee--General who fought for the South, yet was not considered a hard-core secessionist or a strong apologist for slavery. Was one of the greatest--if not the greatest--military minds this country ever saw. Built strong relationships amongst his lieutenant generals, was adored by his own men, and was respected by his opponents.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

16. Saw a video clip of LBJ basically twisting George Wallace in a knot.

Master persuader, LBJ was.

[sasquatch]

3. William Tecumseh Sherman and Napoleon Bonaparte

There's two enigma's right there for you.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Andrew Jackson

and LBJ

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

5. Nixon

I think the guy was a political genius, but so twisted by her personal demons that it warped his moral compass. This guy expanded the Great Society programs initiated by LBJ and created the EPA. Now some would call this political expediency, but he could have used his veto power and stone-walled for years, but he didn't.

[Parche]

6. Admiral Halsey

:woohoo: :woohoo:
:hi:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[taterguy]

7. The guy in that old Wings song "Hands Across the Water"?

I thought that was someone Paul McCartney just made up

[rockymountaindem]

18. Nope, Admiral William "Bull" Halsey was real

"When this war's over, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell".

Edit:
I would not mess around with this guy


Would you?

[taterguy]

34. The only admiral dumb enough to let aircraft carriers get within range of enemy battleships

It's a good thing he got that skin rash before Midway.

We might all be speaking Japanese now.

[azmouse]

8. Gen. John C. Fremont

Dorothea Dix

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. Macarthur. Mark Twain. Henry David Thoreau. Hemingway. Feynman. Nixon.

Larry the Cable Guy.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

10. J. Robert Oppenheimer, the atomic bomb dude.

Amazingly brilliant--a true intellectual if there ever was one. Suspected communist, womanizer, never fully on-board with the idea of nuking the hell out of Japan. Could spend days awake in a sort of intellectual frenzy--no sleep, no food, nothing but ideas. Cautioned against the proliferation of nuclear weapons after the war. Considered a "martyr" of McCarthyism and yet willingly betrayed many other suspected communists to the government after his security clearance was revoked.

Fascinating person, with many dimensions both positive and negative to him.

[terrya]

11. Henry Ford

Brought automobiles to the masses.

But a horrible anti-semite.

[taterguy]

27. That's two strikes against him :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. Who else?

Elvis Presley.

[Forkboy]

13. Just watched Fog of War last night, so I'll say Robert McNamara.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

14. Oooh yeah, McNamara's a good one.

So's Nixon or Kissinger.

[YankeyMCC]

15. John Adams

He's still presented as someone with positive and negative achievments or positions. Alien and Sedition acts, yet he's also called the 'heart of the declaration' while Jefferson was the voice.

And there's many more examples.

[NoGOPZone]

17. Barry Goldwater

[rockymountaindem]

19. John Foster Dulles

He played a key role in defeating the Axis during WWII, but his actions during the Cold War have drawn a great deal of criticism both from liberals who opposed his interventionism and conservatives who thought he risked too much.

[LeftinOH]

20. John Brown: The most misguided psychopathic murderer in US history...

..or, maybe he was just a psychopath.

[Reverend_Smitty]

24. That was the first name that popped into my head when I saw this thread

[skygazer]

21. U.S. Grant

Too often seen as a failure and a drunk, as well as a "butcher," Grant was actually an intelligent, thoughtful and complex man who was morally opposed to the Mexican War and had a great deal of compassion and political astuteness as the terms he offered at Appomattox showed.

He was devoted to his family and really about his only failing was his expectation that other people were as honest as he was. His Personal Memoirs, written when he was dying of cancer are riveting and absent the flowery prose of that time - he was a clean, precise writer. The sales of the book supported his family after his death.

Very interesting guy.

[kwassa]

22. Lyndon Johnson.

The Voting Rights Act and the Vietnam War.

[regularguy]

23. Paul Robeson

When I first read about him (I was in my twenties), I wondered why I hadn't heard of him before. A singer, actor, athlete, intellectual, political activist. A real Renaissance man (and a philly guy to boot!). If not for racism and red-baiting his name would known to all.

[Reverend_Smitty]

26. He grew up and lived in my area and yet 9 out of 10 people on the street wouldn't know who he was...

It's a shame really, he was a fascinating man

[MAGICBULLET]

25. Harriet Tubman

There must be so much more than what has been written about her. She was a leader, a soldier, a nurse, an abolitionist, an activist. Not many can compare to her because of her outstanding courage.

[LSK]

28. Mike Malloy

[ashling]

29. Lyndon Baines Johnson

[ellisonz]

30. Woodrow Wilson

[Enrique]

31. Huey Long

[Aristus]

32. William Jennings Bryan. An anti-science creationist of the kind we're battling today.

But Bryan, although a conservative Christian, was an economic and social liberal, who worked earnestly for progressive causes and sincerely advocated for the working man. That's unlike today's neo-con so-called "Christians" who build million-dollar enterprises for themselves and their personal comfort.

I think he was a great man. He truly stuck up for the downtrodden.

[nuxvomica]

37. I thought of him, too

I try to remind people that Bryan was fighting the philosophy of "social Darwinism" that was being promoted by big business interests at the time. Inherit the Wind was a great play and movie but it ignored this angle in Bryan's motivations.

[geardaddy]

33. Lucy Parsons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons

[Chan790]

35. James Monroe

Positive:
His most important speech, now referred to as the Monroe Doctrine, is pretty-much the single biggest reason the US ever began the long climb to superpower status. It stated that the US would not allow European interference in the new world, would not take sides in European conflicts, and would respond to any attempt to colonize the Americas or subvert or influence US policy in the Americas as a military attack. Because of this strongly-worded stance British and French influence in the colonies stalled to a halt, Russian desires to expand down the Pacific coast were checked, and Spanish attempts to reassert its influence in Florida, the (now) US southwest, Mexico, and Latin America ceased. All of these factors allowed the US to grow unrestrained by the unrest and conflict which plagued Europe during this era; absent it many political scientists and historians believe the US would have been subsumed or reconquered by the European superpowers to gain strategic advantages in colonization of the Americas.

One of America's greatest early diplomats, his work prevented the US from being dragged into the French Revolution and subsequent civil war.

A staunch bipartisan whose cabinet appointments from a broad political base representing both northern anti-slavery activists and southern slaveholders prevented earlier outbreak of hostilities over slavery issue. His nationalist policies curbed early attempts to secede by Southern and Western states.

Second-leading US negotiator in France of the Louisiana Purchase.

Negatives:

Reckless. We now know that Monroe knew, in his own time, that the US did not have the military force or resources to enforce the Monroe Doctrine.

Negotiated Missouri Compromise which, in effect, statutorily-sanctioned slavery in the south while banning it in the North and West.

Displayed questionable ethics, often choosing expedient or pragmatic solutions during his presidency over those he felt were morally-correct.

[GOPisEvil]

36. Andrew Carnegie?

His philanthropy is well known, but he was a virulent and violent union buster. I really despise how he left the country and left his hatchet man to do the job.

[WinkyDink]

38. Bill Clinton.

[Catsbrains]

39. Abraham Lincoln.

[barb162]

40. Alexander Hamilton