Tips for Getting Women as "The Nice Guy"?

[liberalpragmatist]

I'm 22 years old and have had fairly poor luck with women thus far. Simply put, I rarely go on a date or hook up with a girl and have never had even a semi-serious relationship.

I've been told by girls that, although I'm lightly built, I'm "cute," with an attractive face. And girls tell me that they really like me -- as a friend. I actually make friends with girls rather easily, but therein lies part of the problem. I'm terrible at attracting girls when I first meet them. And those girls I do get to know better think of me as a close friend but not anything more.

The problem, many have told me, is that I just come off too easily as "the nice guy." I don't flirt -- at all. I feel myself pretty incapable of it actually. Though I joke around and am friendly with girls, I'm told I joke around in a very nonsexual, non-assertive way.

So any tips? I'd be inclined to say I should just be patient. But I'm 22 years old and everyone -- including friends of mine who are far dorkier -- have done much better for themselves in terms of finding someone. I'm not looking to get married or anything, although I'd like a girlfriend. But even just being able to meet girls, date, have some fun would be nice. And since I'm moving soon and graduating, I figure I might as well pick up tips now. How should I present myself in a way that's comfortable? How do I flirt and give off more of a vibe when typical flirting is completely unlike my personality?

[flvegan]

1. Go vegan. Total niche market.

Not a lot of vegan dudes out there yet. Good percentage of vegan chicks (at least that I know) wouldn't date a guy that eats meat. The ratio is killer.

Plus "big hearted liberal bunny hugger" can be attractive to chicks that do eat meat.

So, there you go.

I may or may not be kidding.

LeftyMom, don't read this. :P

[LeftyMom]

14. Okay, I won't read it.

:P

[RadiationTherapy]

21. Before I went veg the first time, a woman I wanted to date said she wouldn't date meat eaters.

She said she could smell that they ate meat. I can vouch for large variations in body odor based on dietary choices.

[BlueJazz]

22. Well....I can tell you this: When I was in a Band, I had all the women I wanted... Unfortunately...

..I was "one of the Bad Boys"..or in other words ..A selfish Prick.

I looked at myself one day and knew that it was all an act...I'm actually a pretty warm
individual....so I decided to just be myself.

I don't draw the Women as much) anymore but my self-respect has increased dramatically

In other words..Just be yourself and the right person will come along.

PS..It's rough doing an "Act" all the time anyway. :)

[JanMichael]

53. You totally nailed the ratio concept!

Seriously. Most comments on this thread ignore the numbers game...You however added very sage advice!

[flvegan]

69. Finance/economics major here.

Numbers is my life 'n stuff.

[zonkers]

63. Brilliant.

[Ellen Forradalom]

66. Women: to attract guys, become a geek

Whenver I go to a conference, it's 400 men to 6 women. Queen for a Day!

[flvegan]

68. You calling vegans "geeks"?

Cuz if so, those are fighting wor...alright, maybe terribly accurate for some of us.

[Boojatta]

102. Isn't the implication that vegans are reverse geeks?

I presume that gender imbalance doesn't in itself imply geekiness.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Get some coaching from a platonic female friend

When I was your age, I found that some of the "nice" guys missed the most obvious signals of interest. Years later, I found out from a mutual friend that someone I had a desperate crush on also had a desperate crush on me and was afraid to do anything about it.

If you're really nice, there is probably someone pining for you and cursing your cluelessness.

[liberalpragmatist]

5. See...

... all of them are just like "you need to flirt more." But then when I try to get specifics, they're just like "uh. um... I don't know."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

Ask them how to tell if a woman likes you

I actually witnessed such a coaching session once. Ask them how THEY act if they like a guy.

Also, get some hints on how to act on a date. I knew a "nice guy" who lost out on a potentially good relationship because at the end of the date, the woman of his dreams hinted that she was going to attend an orchestra concert he was in the following weekend, and he just said, "Oh." She never showed up at the concert. (Ladies, are you surprised?)

I told him, "That was your cue to suggest going out afterwards, you idiot."

"But I didn't have any specific ideas at that moment," he stammered.

"You don't need any specific ideas," I told him. "You just have to act as if you'd be happy rather than embarrassed if she met you after the concert. You should have said, 'Come and find me after the concert.'"

[Schema Thing]

106. "nice guys" always read that as "plastic female friend".

:evilgrin:

[TZ]

3. uh oh. been a while since we've had a "nice guy" thread

:popcorn:

Seriously though..Just be yourself. Don't try to fit an image. That NEVER works.

[Radical Activist]

59. Don't these always get ugly?

From the bitter "nice" guys to the women who are just OUTRAGED that anyone would state the obvious. ugh

[DS1]

4. You need a hint of danger

like a pair of legs poking around the back side of the house

[MilesColtrane]

83. A pair of legs poking around the back side of the house...

...sounds more like a hint of Dorothy to me.

"Ooooooooooh, we're off to see the wizard...!"

[Guava Jelly]

6. Nice guys only finish last for so long.

Your story sounds a lot like mine.
My best friends are female.
Just be yourself and try to remember that any woman who doesn't like you for you isn't worth your time.
Be patient,something will happen when you least expect it..Always does.

[liberalpragmatist]

10. I know

But that's also the problem -- everyone has always told me to just be patient, something will happen. Friends, family members, even teachers (in HS). They told me that in High School. Then when I went to college, people just assumed I would find someone. And freshman and sophomore years, my best friends all told me they'd be shocked if nothing happened for me by senior year. And lo and behold, I'm graduating in 3 weeks and nothing has happened. Zip.

So I'm not very confident about my prospects in the future.

And even if I do end up finding someone, I worry it won't be for a very long time. I suppose if I only finally seriously date around the time people get married -- like, when I'm in my late 20s or early 30s -- that's not the end of the world, but I'd be bummed for having missed out on having fun when I'm young and in my 20s.

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. "I'd be bummed for having missed out on having fun when I'm young and in my 20s."???

Dude, I hope you aren't pinning all your hopes of "having fun" on finding a woman to date. You don't sound like you are, at least not in the OP, but in this post, you sound like it.

You gotta have fun and be fun first, all on your own, before you can find fun with someone else.

[NuttyFluffers]

73. ooh, i love that last line: you gotta have fun and be fun first...

so true!

however i think this is a case of timidity over lack of personality. he's quite capable of attracting and sustaining female friendships, which require definitely more between the ears than casual male drinking buds. he sounds like he got conversation to keep 'em interested, he just hasn't turned up his antenna broadcasting that he's out on the market. advertising: if no one knows, then no one cares.

ah sales... is there nothing that you cannot sully with disillusion. :7

[Danger Mouse]

7. Just be assertive.

[nomorenomore08]

8. That's assuming one has something to assert...

:eyes:

But seriously, shit like that is always easier on paper than IRL. I wish I could help this guy, but I'm in a similar, if not worse, position myself.

[Danger Mouse]

9. well, i've been there. you'd be surprised how many 'friends' are interested in more than friendship.

if you just get the stones to make a move.
also, i'm a creative/sensitive type...that can go a long way. just don't set yourself up as 'the friend' if you want more than friendship...because then expecting from her something isn't there when you've painted yourself into that corner is just selfish.

[SteppingRazor]

13. That is the spot-on best advice.

You meet a girl, you like her, and you say, "We should hang out some time. Let's grab a steak/see a show/whatever floats your boat."

You would be amazed how many dates you get when you actually, you know, ASK PEOPLE OUT. (Seriesly! It works! :) )


On edit: And don't gimme that "what if she says no" crap. Who cares if she says no? The sea is filled with fish.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. Yes, a male friend of said that in high school, he decided that

he was tired of not having a girlfriend, so he made a list of the girls he liked and called them one by one, asking them if they'd like to go to a movie that weekend.

By the time he got to the fourth girl, he had a date. I don't know if that turned into a relationship, but he said that the first invitation was the hardest.

[NuttyFluffers]

74. did you know that's just how i jumped into my sales job?

rejection is part of life, expect it at some point. but sheer numbers gives you the advantage of getting at least some success.

so just grab the numbers and call down the list.

afraid of what to say? write out a script ahead of time (no, i'm not kidding).

keep asking the question, usually by the 5th request you'll get a definitive answer -- often a yes because a definitive no would have appeared long before.

give the "customer" a choice of two positive choices to give a sense of control, but not leave them hanging as a hard sales tactic. remember comfortable silences, not awkward ones. "wanna go on a date friday? there's matinee and there's a 7pm show, which would you prefer?"

roughly sales occur every 1/3-1/5th time on average even from the worst sales tactics, you just need to keep asking.

10% of the populace always says no, 10% of the populace always says yes; these people are crazy. pay attention on winning over the 80% in between. shoot for 60-80% success ratio.

gawd i feel sad and dirty now... humans are too easy to reduce to abstractions in any discipline.

[YDogg]

45. It can be a challenge putting yourself in a position to interact with others your age ...

... after school, but certainly there are some opportunities in a town/city of some size. Key might be getting involved with something you actually like, rather than just something designed to meet women. No magic solutions, and perhaps these are things you have thought of many times ...

bicycle club
book club
political campaign
church group
local history club
local geocaching or hiking club
invite new friends over for a pot-luck supper / housewarming
volunteer to build props for or take tickets at local theatre group performance
join library or art gallery friends group
swim
grad school in a women-dominated discipline
model for catalogs
let friends know about a new hobby or special talent (I'll bet David Blaine gets lots of dates)

More ideas?
http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/datingtips/30127/3-keys-to-meeting-women

[IronLionZion]

86. The best response to "what if she says no" is "OMG, WHAT IF SHE SAYS YES!!!!" nt

[SOteric]

11. Change the dynamic.

Yes. I do realise how vague that sounds. Let me try to refine it for you. When you interact with another person the interaction can be considered a dynamic in which you provide some stimulus and response and the other person(s) provide some stimulus/response.

If you don't like the response, you need to alter the stimulus.

If women tend to perceive you as safe and nonthreatening in a sexual way they will not likely want to alter that perception without considerable tweaking of the stimulus.

And no, I'm not telling you to be an asshole. Just change your image. Change what you project. Get some styling tips and change your haircut/clothes to be less 'boy next door.' Don't be available every time a woman needs a buddy to dish or cry with. Develop some outside interests, take some classes, volunteer your time with a political campaign. Do some things that change the way you think of yourself. That's how you alter the dynamic of how you interact with women.

[Guava Jelly]

12. This is great advice

:applause:

[Dora]

16. This woman agrees with this advice.

Be happy with who you are, examine what you do, change what you don't like, be happy with who you are, etc.

Do NOT try to develop a threatening air in order to attract women. If you develop a menacing or threatening air/attitude as a means to attracting women, you will inevitably attract women who need the "bad" guy to fix/heal/change/convert or to create relationship chaos/drama in order to feel fulfilled.

[The Inquisitive]

15. I have just the thing!

The Product will do wonders for you I imagine hehe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVcyNANK5cY

[zanne]

77. I thought I'd hate that, but it was so cute!

I highly recommend it!

[RadiationTherapy]

17. Travel. Learn guitar. Make history.

"Nice guys" are boring and boring is never going to get you anywhere; I use quotes, because, obviously, one can be interesting AND nice. The most important thing, I think, you can do to increase your attractiveness is to live a life worth talking about. Find your passion, be irresponsible, look at life with gratitude and unending curiousity. LEt that curiousity lead your conversations; ask lots of open ended questions.

Eventually, just the telling of the stories of your awesome adventures will do the flirting for you.

Also, and in caps: ART IS SEXY. Express yourself.

[BreweryYardRat]

95. Easier said than done.

How the hell am I supposed to travel with absolutely no money? College student. Gas is expensive. Plane tickets are expensive, and you can't drive over the Atlantic. Hostels are cheap, but there's no privacy, and you'd have to practically sleep on top of your stuff to deter theft.

I can't even find a damned job at the moment, and you suggest I travel?!

I do have some degree of writing talent, but I'd need publication before I could claim anything there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

97. So don't travel: Read, join campus activities

When you're looking for love, don't go by physical appearance alone (which a lot of young guys do).

Instead, go for someone you're emotionally and intellectually in tune with. If you develop that kind of love, based on common values and interests, then the person BECOMES physically attractive to you.

[BreweryYardRat]

99. I don't go by physical appearance alone.

Less judgment, please.

[IronLionZion]

108. Just because it isn't easy, doesn't mean many people haven't already done it.

People with less money than you have traveled. There are jobs that involve travel. travel isn't the only way to get interesting. the point is to live life and get some experiences and stories worth telling. try doing some cool stuff wherever you are. Find something you can do. There are tons of free stuff out there and people who know about doing the best they can with what they have.

[montanto]

100. Art is sexy in a lot of ways

there are lots or hot chicks at art openings and you need to learn about this stuff so you can talk, but it can be as easy as " what do you think of that?"

[Blue_Tires]

18. good luck

i'm 31 and my success rate has only trended downward...

[pitohui]

19. shall i be honest?

being a nice guy never stopped anyone from getting a date, and if someone tells you that they aren't dating you because you're "cute" and "a nice guy," that's a signal that you have some other problem that they don't feel like addressing

nice guys get dates with no problems, who wants to be with the asshole flirt who is hitting on everyone in the room when she can have the nice guy all to herself?

i don't know what the problem is, i can only tell that it's something girls don't feel comfortable talking to you about

your dorky friends are not getting girls by "flirting," by definition, a dork can't flirt, he's a dork, and yet these dorks are getting the girls, that should tell you something

have you had a recent dental exam, is there any way that you can get an honest make-over or evaluation of your looks, is there any way to figure out where you're going wrong that is something other people don't feel comfortable telling you?

it isn't flirting, lots of guys don't flirt, and lots of girls won't even go out with a guy who flirts, playas are not really all that attractive if you want someone who is into YOU

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. This is definitely a possibility

I've known some self-styled "nice guys" who were really irritating without knowing it.

[Schema Thing]

25. first do a gut check to see if you're truly nice.

I find that a lot of men, er, boys, think they are nice because they aren't getting the girls and they aren't serial killers or rapist. Girls tell them they are nice, because a) they've been fairly nice to them, but maybe for the wrong reasons, and b) the girl wants to say something positive as she is letting them down.

Are you just as nice to men as your are to women? That's a good gut check. True "nice" is gender neutral.

If you are not, are you at least honest enough with yourself to know exactly why you are nicer to women? True "nice" doesn't come w/o some self-honesty. It's not not-nice to just-want-to-get-laid, but it's not nice to be an actor w/o letting anyone, including yourself in on the script.







Edit: oops, put this reply in the wrong place.

[liberalpragmatist]

27. I've been told I'm good-looking

And I generally take care to dress well. I'm not obnoxious or annoying, as best I can tell. Nor do girls seem to have a problem being friends with me.

What my friends (who are girls) have told me is that I just don't come off as interested; I seem like a nice guy who's interested in being friends but not really any more. To be honest, although they all deny it, several have hinted that people think I'm gay or asexual.

[pitohui]

46. keep in mind that some girls are actually physically attracted to gay guys

i really don't think it's the gay thing

i said a bit more in a PM, but in case you don't see it, to
make it short and sweet, there are girls interested in almost every kind of guy -- slim, gay, arty, exotic, virgin, you name it, there is a girl (several girls) into it

you might just be "running bad" and pretty soon you will be "running good" and wondering how to fight off all the girls into slim, cute, exotic etc. guys

when you press people in person for a "reason" then they have to come up with a "reason," doesn't mean the "reason" is valid

be yourself, dress well, be nice, the older you get, the girls who want bad attitudes will find plenty of alcoholics and crackheads to keep them busy and, trust me, you don't want that kind of drama anyway

don't fix what ain't broken

if the worst thing anyone can say about you is that you're too nice, you don't have a problem, you just need to let time work its magic

[Radical Activist]

60. heh

"who wants to be with the asshole flirt who is hitting on everyone in the room when she can have the nice guy all to herself?"

You'd be surprised.

[DarkTirade]

20. Obviously I'm not gonna recommend you try to somehow switch into asshole mode...

while that may get girls, it won't lead to any kind of happiness for anybody involved in the long run. :P

What you need is to just relax. Have fun. Don't be afraid to tease people, guys and girls. Teasing is an integral part of flirting, and many don't realize that. Obviously there's no need to go over-the-top and go to asshole territory, but a little fun ribbing is a good way to show both confidence and the ability to get close to someone.

On the other hand, if you're trying to flirt with someone who I'm interested in, forget what I just said. :P

[trof]

24. Get some cool shades and a Harley.

Dress all in black.
Learn to cook.
Especially grilling.
But also learn to make a killer Caesar Salad from scratch.
And a pasta dish.
Extra points for pesto. From scratch.
Take up juggling.
Become a fighter pilot.
(OK, that's a bit more difficult.)
Wear an eye patch.
Get a tattoo.
Wear Grey Flannel aftershave.
(Works for me.)
Part your hair on the other side, or straight down the middle.
Or shave your head.
Get one ear pierced and wear a small gold earring.
Wear a big watch with a metal link band.
With a bezel and some little dials on the face.
Oh, and wear it with the watch on the INSIDE of your wrist.
Good luck.
;-)

[CJCRANE]

28. Damn!

I wish I'd been given this kind of advice when I was liberalpragmatist's age!

I could've been a juggling fighter pilot by now!

[trof]

29. Juggling fighter pilot is a guaranteed chick magnet.

Honest.

[YDogg]

40. Heh. I wore Grey Flannel when I lived in Alabama.

That brings back memories. :-)

[datasuspect]

26. i get more women by not even trying

but i got it like that.

[XemaSab]

31. Two things:

Be a nice guy, but don't be desperate or a sucker. Both of those are HUGH turnoffs.

Also, pay women compliments. If you see a girl you're interested in, say "Your hair looks nice today, you should wear it like that more often" or something of that ilk. If she acts self-deprecating, tease her about it. Say "But I like it sorta tousled." If you do this, she will know you are flirting with her, and respond accordingly. :P

[Jamastiene]

32. I don't know the answer, but if you find out, please

share with me whatever you did. I'm horrible at getting women to like me too. Oh, I'm "nice and all" but not their cup of tea. God, I suck. I cannot give any advice.

I can only beg of you that you share if you figure anything out. We "nice" people should form a support group and share small joys when we figure out how to find any joys in life. *sigh* Back to my school work.

[Amaya]

33. Self confidence (not cocky)

Be sure of yourself - women love that ;)

[DarkTirade]

47. I think there has to be a little bit of cocky there or else it doesn't work.

Just not enough to be annoying. :P

[Jade Fox]

34. Women your age....

sometimes have pretty bad taste and judgment about men. Many of them are still working off their adolescent fantasies of what is attractive, man-wise.

My best advice is be patient, and keep on trying. :thumbsup:

[Radical Activist]

64. Something else I wish someone had told me when I was younger.

Although I'm amazed at the women in their late 20's who still pass me up to date a perpetually unemployed drug addicted loser because he has a hot tattoo and plays in a shitty garage band etc.

[IronLionZion]

107. And THAT'S why I always love older women!

I'm 25, my girlfriend is 31. I love the mature attitude and emotional stability.

Her sisters call her a cradle robber. :eyes: Her friends call me her boy toy. ;)
My mom is pretty sure she's taking advantage of me somehow. :eyes:

Either way, it's working out nicely. :evilgrin:

[Darth_Kitten]

35. Guys like you will do better in the long run......

I've seen too many women hook up with absolute jerks and they are so overrated. ;)

Just be patient.....you have loads of time. You are still quite young.

[RetroLounge]

36. Open a bookstore.

Seriously.

:hi:

RL

[5LeavesLeft]

37. "Nice Guy" is not what's wrong with you

it's what's right with you. I am a "nice guy",i.e, "You're a really nice guy and any girl would be lucky to have you as a boyfriend, but I'm not interested in you in that way". I got that line from really gorgeous women that I dated just because they were really gorgeous. Then I grew up a bit and realized that I was looking to date these women as a validation of myself. Sort of a "He must be pretty cool cuz look at the girl he's with" sorta thing. But while on a date with one of these gorgeous women she actually said "I saw these shoes that were so ugly I had to buy them because I felt sorry them". That pretty much ended that date. I reassessed my choice in women. I started to talk to girls that I wanted to talk to, that didn't fit the conventional definition of beauty(I got a thing for smart chicks with glasses!). And man, did things change after that. I was talking to girls that actually wanted what I had to offer, not some airhead looking for the BBD. This was a huge confidence boost, so I could then talk to even more girls. You can always use more confidence, but don't set yourself up for a defeat with a girl that you're really not all that interested in in the first place.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Exactamente

Go after the women who are in your league in terms of interests, emotional wavelength, intelligence, and values.

[raccoon]

82. Good for you!

"I got that line from really gorgeous women that I dated just because they were really gorgeous. "

I think a lot of the time, that's what this "Women don't want nice guy" stuff is really about. The guy only wants some woman who's drop-dead gorgeous.

[lukasahero]

89. Wow - every guy who complains of the 'nice guy' syndrome should read your post

It never ceases to amaze me that so many 'nice guys' are available when I know so many 'nice girls' who can't buy a date but the dingbat airheads looking for money and excitement have guys lined up around the corner.

Thank you for considering there might be a flaw in your own perspective. You're a gentleman and a scholar. :)

[5LeavesLeft]

92. Thanks, but don't tell anybody

It would spoil my bad-boy reputation!

[PVnRT]

38. Whip your dick out at every opportunity

ESPECIALLY if they tell you they've never seen a Trouser Snake.

No time to post any more, I need to check in with the parole officer.

[YDogg]

39. I LOLd.

[DarkTirade]

48. ... I think that's the best advice I've heard in a long time.

[Ava]

41. there are a lot of "nice girls" out there too

perhaps you are looking for a relationship in the wrong pond ;)

[JTG of the PRB]

42. My friend, I know your boat very well.

Everything you said I could basically say about myself. If I had any advice worth giving, I'd give it to you. All I can say is that you should follow the advice of some of the other people are giving here. The Loungers are a very wise and learned people, and they are glad to share their wisdom with you.

I wish you luck, friend!

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. Wait until they grow up and realize that they really do want men like you, and not assholes.

Give them another 5 years and one or two abusive, empty marriages to realize that the asshole jocks really aren't the dreamboat perfect trophy husbands they thought they would be.

I had to wait until I was in my 30s to find a woman mature enough to handle a guy who treats her like a human being and not just a semen receptacle.

[NewJeffCT]

49. Some advice from a guy who was "the nice guy" 19 years ago...

I'm 41 now and still a pretty nice guy, though most on DU would probably disagree.

I'll bore you with a little background first:

But, I never dated in high school and only had a handful of dates in college, and one very short-term girlfriend my senior year in college. In fact, through most of my 20s, I didn't date much at all.

Bang, I met my now ex-wife and was just overwhelmed with a very intense relationship. Unfortunately, the intensity died within a few weeks of saying, "I do" and our marriage quickly ended. I knew the divorce was coming months before she actually filed. I don't think either one of us were really ready for marriage - she was too young and immature, and I had never really been in that kind of relationship before.

But, as soon as she filed for divorce, it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders and I was dating like crazy within a week or two and I'd be dating 5-10 women a week. Oddly enough, I met a lot of very attractive & intelligent women from online, or through other women online.

I think you probably give off the vibe that you're looking for a serious relationship - the weight that may have been on my shoulders before. Even if you say you're not looking for a serious relationship, a lot of times you may be projecting that image to women.

It may sound a bit cold, but stop caring about meeting women, dating women, flirting with them and being nice to them. A lot of women don't want to date a 22 year old guy who acts like the weight of the world is on his shoulders. It's kind of a downer to somebody that is 20-22 years old and only wants to have fun... just be yourself, have fun and make some jokes. Lighten up and the dating will eventually take care of itself.

[fortyfeetunder]

50. Moving to a new location =new beginning

You have literally got a clean slate. New beginning!!!

Here is a golden opportunity to further develop some hobbies.

Or, even better yet, get involved in a campaign.

And yes you can be a nice guy. They make the best spouses :)

[Generic Brad]

51. You may be aiming for the wrong thing

Are you looking for "a" woman or "the" woman? There is a significant difference.

[JanMichael]

52. It's a numbers game. Ask out 2 and you'll likely get zero.

Ask out (or arrange to meet with friends) 5 and you might still get (a date not a "home-run") zero or one.

Ask out, or hit up on the "interweb", 20 and you might get (again I'm talking about a date not scoring) 2.

This is something that people hate to hear but sadly is a simple fact. It's a numbers game. Proximity and contact are some very basic necessities. No contact no chance for anything, ever.

Also just be confidant and funny. Listen more than talk and pay attention. Lastly always, unless told not to, always, always, always, make a move (a simple peck or kiss not whip it out). Even a dorky move with a kiss on the cheek is better than nothing. Should "something" (like a relationship) be the intended outcome of course. However if the response is flat back off immediately.

This (of course) sounds piggish and sexist but you're 22 and would probably benefit from some opposite sex company. They in fact may benefit from your company too! Most people like to have a social life regardless of their sex. So try not to see from just one side.

EDIT: That "niche" idea up thread is a great idea! Find groups with similar interests and everything should be fine.

[Richard Steele]

54. You're on the right track- PATIENCE.

You think everyone you know has "done much better
for themselves in terms of finding someone"?
HA! :rofl:

Wait five years and look back- you'll have a very
different impression of most of those relationships!
Plenty of those "did better" folks will be wishing
it had never happened.

Be yourself. Work to build the life you want, and
to do the things you enjoy. Along the way, you'll
meet nice ladies who enjoy those things as much
as you do.

The one piece of actual "advice" I give to every
guy in your position is this: you need a "hangout".
Find some casual, friendly place with food and go there
often enough to be considered a "regular".

The benefits of the "hangout" are many, and it's power
is not to be underestimated. If you'd like to learn more,
PM me.

[Fox Mulder]

55. I feel your pain.

I'm that way myself...except I'm 26.

It gets harder as you get older. Get more assertive while you're still young. Don't be like me and keep being "the nice guy". It'll get you nowhere.

[Chan790]

56. I think you've asked the wrong question.

That question is: "Why am I not getting dates?", it's not "How do I get dates if I'm a nice guy?"

I'm terrible at attracting girls when I first meet them. And those girls I do get to know better think of me as a close friend but not anything more.

Think it'd be fair to say you lack confidence? That is how you're coming across if the excerpted sentiment is true. It doesn't really matter how cute or nice you are; confidence is sexy and it says "I have something to offer you." Lack of confidence says "Even I don't think I deserve to be taken seriously as a potential romantic interest." Who is going to disagree with you if that's the message you're sending out? Note I said confidence, NOT cockiness. Nobody likes cockiness, cocky is a sign of insecurity. I'm going to blow your mind here: some portion of those women you've gotten to know better were at some time attracted to you. People don't stick around to get to know people they don't find interesting; interesting is attractive. So why are they no longer attracted to you? Well...maybe you've become plain and ordinary. Maybe they've picked up on your lack of confidence. Maybe they got tired of throwing really obvious "I'm attracted to you" signals that you missed. Any and all of those are unattractive.

It has nothing to do with being "nice" or a "bad boy", frankly I know many many guys (and I am one) and almost 100% of them fall somewhere in the gray area very close to the middle of the nice/bad continuum. Almost nobody in the world is evil, to wit: "bad"; most people think they are pretty good, in fact. Almost nobody is saintly, to wit: "nice"; there are a lot of people who act nice for alterior motives, that's anything but nice.

I want you to do two simple things for me:

1.)Tomorrow, introduce yourself to 20 new people, not potential dates or women...people. Nothing difficult..."Hi, I'm Chan (except you're not me so use your own name.)" When you see these people around say "Hello" or "Nice to see you" or wave or small talk or whatever, just engage them in some way. Note their reactions, some will be more engaged by you than others. Pick out the people who are interested by you who you would like to get to know better or spend time with; ask them if they'd like to (do something which you have a mutual interest in. Show that you've been listening.). Maybe they'll say no...you've still just worked on your self-confidence. That was easy, wasn't it. If you keep doing this, you become popular...popular people get more out of life. It's like HS, everybody knows "that guy" so he's someone worth knowing. Eventually you win...and so does some lucky gal. Never let it reach that comfortable "friends" thing. Keep it fresh and be honest about your intentions. This will make you a good guy. You want to be a good guy: direct, honest, confident, happy, passionate, doesn't play games. You'll find something else happens too...you become fulfilled by life and don't care if you're single. When you stop caring, you'll succeed because you'll stop pushing the issue.

2.) Set a shopping day with two(or more...but not one) female friends you trust. Ask them their opinions a lot. They may not be able to tell you what is not attracting them to you, but they can tell you that haircut would look good on you or this shirt brings out your eyes. Maybe they know exactly what is wrong with you and don't want to hurt your feelings...this provides them with an opportunity to correct some issues without having to criticize you. Even if you get nothing else out of it...everybody feels more confident and sexy in a new stylish look.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. That is GREAT advice!

:thumbsup:

[Javaman]

96. Works like a charm.

once I got out of my shell and had more self confidence, I had to fight them off...well, not fight them off, but politely tell them to leave me alone. lol

[IronLionZion]

61. Nothing wrong with finishing last a few times. A gentleman would let the lady finish first.

Seriously, if you're coming off as a friend, then they'll think you want to be friends. Don't pretend to be a friend. Ask the girl out on a date.

And read this
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

[flvegan]

67. Flag on the play/yellow card for IronLionZion.

There's more innuendo here than in a bad '80's movie.

I like it, and I laugh at it, but still...yellow card.

[IronLionZion]

70. It was a post and run because my girlfriend wanted to cuddle out on the balcony

I'm glad you liked it you vegan bastard from Florida! I can last a good long time. Why would women want to be with a guy who finishes too soon? :evilgrin:

anyway, to the OP: Oh yes, I have a girlfriend and it wasn't until I was 24 that I found her. I was a pretty shy lonely virgin all through high school and college too. I went on my first date when I was 23. It's OK. Sure it feels like the most important thing right now is to "have fun with a girl" but you're not missing out on anything. There's plenty of time for fun once you find someone special. Many of the people who had too much "fun" early on often develop emotional insecurities and regrets later on but still others learn from the experience and get confident. You have to do something to get confident in doing it better. But if you want something you should know that nobody gives it to you. You have to ask for it and take it.

No matter how much you want to support equal rights for women, at some point you have to be a man and lead so she can follow. Men ask, women answer. Men make the move, women decide whether to accept. We can argue all day over who has more power: the initiator or the decider. Sure, it's sexist. Deal with it.

Be an interesting, confident, and friendly person.

Gain the confidence to ask women out.

Learn about her body language. Don't focus too much on yourself, there is another person that deserves your attention.

Find out what she likes and plan interesting dates.

Once going out, be confident in going in for a kiss at the right time.

Same thing for sex. Now I have mixed feelings on planning and talking about sex vs. spontaneity, but you should know that I have had much more success by simply going for it slowly without saying a word and judging her reactions to make sure she's OK with each progressive step.

This is good, but it's targeted towards Indian men who want American women. Anyone can learn from it though:
http://datinganindian.blogspot.com/2005/07/indian-guys-white-girls-and-more.html

Making a move for sex
http://www.solveyourproblem.com/ask_dr_neder/making_the_first_move_dating.shtml

Another great how-to site with fun videos is videojug.com. Lot's of useful info.

[IronLionZion]

71. --------------Despite the post headings, there is great stuff in my two posts above----------------

in my opinion anyway. My advice is free and worth every penny! :silly:

[Lorien]

62. Two things; 1.) be genuinly interested in what she's saying,

really listen, and respond. If she says something that you disagree with, let her know; not in a rude, obnoxious, republican kind of way, more of a "yes, I do understand your position which seems to be_____ (confirms that you've been listening) but don't you think that____ (state your position)". Women, just like men, want to know that their thoughts and opinions are heard and valued, AND they don't want to be bored. When you just nod your head and agree, it's boring as hell (lots of me-and women-do this early on in a relationship). If you agree, add something to the dialog there, too.

2). Learn to flirt. Seriously. I've been completely seduced by a couple of men who used pretty much the same method. After they had known me a while an gotten comfortable with me, they started telling me things about myself that turned them on. No, not "you've got a great rack" or anything like that. Features that are less obvious that showed that they were really noticing the little things that set me apart; my delicate fingers, long slender neck, the graceful way I lower myself into a chair...that sort of thing (yeah, I've got a "great rack" too, but by not mentioning that early on they didn't look as base as other men). Later they started telling me how I made them feel when they were with me-both emotionally AND physically. And the way these men looked at me....to borrow a line from a movie; like I was a dish of ice cream, and they were the spoon. Flirting doesn't take clever lines, it takes observation, class and fearlessness. That can be a bit of a balancing act, but once you get it down I hope that you'll only put it to use with the ones that are worth both love AND friendship together!

[Connonym]

75. I think this is really good advice

if you find someone attractive give them your full attention, notice things about them, tell them if they have beautiful eyes or that you like their sense of humor or whatever. Needless to say, I'm not saying lie to them but look for the things that you find special about them and try to flirt a little bit. Not hokey winking kind of flirting but looking directly into her eyes flirting, touching her elbow when you walk next to her, focus on her and make her feel like she has your 100% attention. But most of all, I think that you need to try to relax about it because you don't want to send out a desperate vibe. Also ask yourself honestly if maybe you really are looking at the wrong types of women, be open to the idea of flirting with someone you think maybe isn't exactly your type physically. But the best thing that Lorien stated in her post is observation, class and fearlessness. You have to be willing to put yourself on the line and LET the girl know you are interested. I personally think a lot of it is in the eye contact.

Good luck : )

[Lorien]

84. Good points. Being genuine is absolutely essential because most

of us can see through bullshit pretty easily. If you're attracted to someone, determine what attracted you to them and tell them about that. Touching her elbow and the small of her back (if you are walking beside her) while speaking to her signals you interest as well-as Connonym said; let her know that you are interested! A former coworker of mine told me recently that a guy I had worked with for years had a huge crush on me, and I honestly thought that he had nothing but disdain for me because he never even hinted that he was interested.

I think the key to not sending out the desperate vibe is to do your best to feel like you'll be just fine and wonderful with or without a significant other. If you show that you are obviously comfortable with yourself and enjoy life both with others and alone, then it's hard not to be drawn to that.

[Radical Activist]

65. Don't let their poor dating decisions change how you view yourself.

Don't be afraid to stop being friends with a woman you have feelings for if its causing you to feel bad about yourself.

Doing those things may help with your confidence, which is what many women find attractive. Assertiveness implies confidence so be more assertive without getting pushy. Unfortunately many young women have trouble seeing the difference between confidence and arrogance. Don't worry about them and the disappointment they will experience. Just ask out someone else.
There's better advice on this thread but that's my two cents.

[NuttyFluffers]

72. no risky, no frisky

put yourself out there and have fun. people will either turn you down with a smile (or if you're too aggressive, with a frown) or banter back. if things seem promising you'll know -- if not, send stronger signals and put yourself out more. keep repeating until success or failure.

have fun! :D

[Anarcho-Socialist]

76. Flirting

While sexual flirting is corny. Focus on flirting that is sensual and intellectual.

[JoDog]

78. You sound like a male version of myself

As odd as that sounds. I'm terrible at flirting, and even worse at telling when someone else is flirting with me. Nothing really happened for me dating wise in college either. To be blunt, I was a virgin when I got my degree. I don't like "bad boys". I will not continue dating someone once it becomes clear that they are not going to treat me with respect.

But, I am a little older (31), so maybe I can offer a little perspective. Things did start happening for me after college. While I am far from a wild woman, I have had a few good relationships. The fact of the matter is, everybody (male and female) in their early twenties has often unrealistic notions of what they are looking for in mates. You may just be a little ahead of your time, for what sparse comfort that gives.

You say "typical flirting" is not your style. Well, how about going for something that is more your style? Are you a member of a church or temple? They may have a social committee you could join and get involved with. Speed dating? Online social networks?

Do you have any interest in history? If so, you many want to check out the Society for Creative Anachronism (www.sca.org). It's a group of medieval/Ren re-inactors. I recommend it to you because modern flirting is simply not in style there--it's more the courtly flirting of days gone by. The boorish behavior that passes as flirting these days just doesn't fly. Nice guys finish first--and get laid--in our organization. And events are a great way to meet people, and you automatically have a similar interest to help you start a conversation.

Or, take one of your interests and see if there are any local groups for it. Even if they tend to be heavy on the males, well, those fellows have sisters, cousins, etc. Meeting people leads to meeting more people, which may lead to you meeting someone special.

[distantearlywarning]

91. Hey, I'm a SCAdian too!

What Kingdom are you in?

(And I completely agree about the flirting thing. In the SCA you can learn how to do it in a safer environment than in the "real world", and you can get laid doing it once you know how...)

[JoDog]

93. I'm a citizen of Northshield

by treaty. Technically, I live in Midrealm (Northern Illinois). But when Northshield went kingdom, the shire I play with was firmly in that territory (Southern Wisconsin), so I went with them.

NS is a pretty laid-back kingdom full of fun people--not to mention some of the most butt-kicking fighters around (although I'm more of an Arts and Science gal).


Yours in the dream,
JoDog
Lady Edda Eiriksdottir

[distantearlywarning]

94. I'm in AEthelmearc.

Rapier is my primary activity, but I also do Elizabethan costuming and C&I.

[JCMach1]

79. Go somewhere where there are not people LIKE YOU

to search for someone...

That could mean geography, different lifestyles, race, sub-culture, whatever...

If women are considering you too nice, you are going for the wrong demographic.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

80. As a former single "nice guy" myself, let me reiterate someone else: BE ASSERTIVE.

They can't like you as a friend if you NEVER LET THEM KNOW YOU AS ONLY A FRIEND. I can't stress how important it is to have that dynamic working in your favor. Get to know someone while dating - don't try doing it the other way around. Once you're labeled a friend - or more appropriately "safe" - you will never break out of that.

When you meet someone cute, ask them on a date, and as clear as possible about your intentions.

[bullwinkle428]

81. These threads come up every month, and I always end up posting

the same thing, in an attempt to provide advice - please read Dr. Robert Glover's "No More Mr. Nice Guy"!!!

www.nomoremrniceguy.com

This is NOT "how to be an asshole" - this is all about being who you are, expressing in no uncertain terms what you want and don't want, and simply not apologizing for your own needs and desires! I've read through the book at least three times now, and can honestly tell you I'm starting to change my attitude on my entire outlook on life, and I'm in my 40s! Who says you can't teach and old dog new tricks?

[IronLionZion]

85. Don't ever be "one of the girls". What straight girl would want to date one of the girls?

Having too many female friends is a problem. Try not to be the only guy in a group of girls ever. You think you're a pimp while others think you're gay but either way it's not the best way to get girls.

Don't be her friend. Let her be your friend. Think about the difference.

Don't always seek her approval. Let her seek your approval sometimes.

Don't always tag along with her, let her tag along with you for the things YOU want to do.

Don't agree with everything, have your own opinions.

Have a spine of your own. Note that this is different from having a stick up your ass. Don't mold yourself to fit others.

Here's a useful site that has helped a lot. The dude is about 26 and shares his thoughts on how he progressed from a lonely insecure geek in college to being more social and dating and whatever else.
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/

Also be careful about who you take advice from. DUers tend to be decent liberal individuals but other groups might just be a bunch of weirdos. Try to stay away from Ross Jeffries, "fast seduction", "pick up artist" and similar bullshit because they might leave you even worse off.

[ismnotwasm]

87. Ha! I'll bet you

There is more than one young woman who has a crush on you, and YOU don't know it.

One way to flirt is flirt with everybody, or every female in your case. Practice on older women. Flirting is a blast, and it's innocent. It can be as banal as comments about the weathers or news, or pets, to noticing what someone is wearing. "That color looks really good on you" Never sustain flirtation the first time, keep it light. If a young woman is wearing a light perfume that you appreciate,you can make some generalized comment without singling her out. If you stop and think, common courtesy is one of the most valuable flirting tools I know. Alway practice courtesy. Never mind that bad boy shit if you can't carry it off. Trust me, it wears out after a while. Keep your personal standards high, and never sell yourself short.

Anyway, I work with a nice young man, what he does is just live an interesting life. He active in sports like snowboarding, hiking rock-climbing. He made some contacts and just went to South America to learn Spanish on the cheap. He doesn't do this to "meet" anyone, he just is in a social place where it happens. He's done with college for now, so he has more time.

He's cute, and slightly build, sounds like you.

[guitar man]

88. all you need to know

is revealed in this song ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxuFWnul7II

[begin_within]

90. Church

best meat market ever

[La Lioness Priyanka]

98. i have found that mr. nice guys always chases ms.hotgirl and then complains bitterly

because ms. hotgirl wants mr.hotguy.

[kwassa]

101. well, sometimes .....

though I've heard ms. hotgirl complain that men are too intimidated to chase her at all.

On his old show Chris Rock was talking over this with a very attractive female guest. He was talking about being in school, being in a class of 30, 15 girls and 15 guys, and said that the reality is that all 15 girls wanted the same 2 guys, and the rest were out of luck. That's life, at least at that age.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

103. i'm just saying i have met some really nice men in my time, but the whiney self labelled

mr. nice guys have never been one of those nice men that i know.

[Chan790]

104. Everybody deserves somebody they find hot.

Though complaining bitterly has never worked as a turn-on, nor achieved anything for anyone.

[HEyHEY]

105. Yeah, ditch the nice guy thing - especially at your age

HEyHEY's rules for male-whoring are as follows.

1 - Assume every girl will leave you, this keeps you from getting attatched.
2 - Don't lie. Seriously, it's not worth lying to someone who may care for you
3 - Don't lead anybody on - it's just not fair.
4 - NEVER pay attention to the girl you are interested in.
5 - Lose that fear of being considered a "creep" if you make a move - you'll NEVER make a move if you worry about that.
6 - Let it bounce if you get shot down. It's not worth worrying about.
7 - Let HERE make contact for the first week or two.

That's about it.

[crimsonblue]

109. you can always push emotions deep down inside you

so that they don't betray you are tug at your heart. Focus on your own life and be satisfied with yourself.. the best time to meet someone is when you do not need someone else.