Paranormal Phenomena

[durutti]

What kinds of paranormal phenomena do you believe in (if any), and why (or why not)?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. What if

what is paranormal to most folks is normal to you?

[maggrwaggr]

2. with me it's not a question of belief

since I've experienced several first hand.

What most people would call "ghosts". I don't know what the hell they are, but they're something which are, by definition, super-natural (as we currently define it).

[TXvote]

16. Ghosts

oh yes, there are ghosts

[Dookus]

18. make an easy million dollars...

contact the Randi foundation

http://www.randi.org/research/

[Shanty Oilish]

93. Twin intuition, precognition and ghosts

Only because I've experienced them, and only those I've experienced.

Not for ten million would I go public with it.

[donco6]

3. Precognition

I've experienced it myself.

And I really am NOT a whacko . . . honest!

I believe there's a lot more to human existence than we know.

[carols]

10. Precognition definitely

I get "butterflies" in my stomach out of nowhere just before something bad happens. Happens every time.
Carol

[onebigbadwulf]

4. Karma,...

but I think that can be explained through science if only we had omniscient spectators.

[Skip Intro]

5. How can you rule any of it out?

I mean, who can ever say for sure that any of it or none of it exists?

I don't disbelieve in ghosts and spirits.
I don't disbelieve in other dimensions and states of being.
I don't disbeleive in ufos and extraterrestrials.

I don't think for a minute science is anywhwere near understanding the true nature of things. Science seems almost conceited to me. I think reality is too narrowly defined.

And I'm not entirely convinced that some of the people who run our government aren't from another species/planet.



I Love this kinda s**t.

[Dookus]

6. it's called skepticism...

I have no reason to believe in any of those things absent compelling evidence that they exist.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Skip Intro]

9. Its called an open mind -

I have no reason to disbelieve in those things absent compelling evidence (or logic) they don't exist.

Many ordinary things were once extraordinary.

And lack of proof doesn't define existence any more than lack of proof defines non-existence. What?

Unfamiliar zones of reality don't require your belief to exist.

[Dookus]

15. Well, you call it an open mind

others call it gullibility.

I see no reason to believe in things that have absolutely no evidence pointing to their existence.

Should I accept the possibility that there's an invisible, non-corporeal polka-dotted hippopotamus living in my attic? I can't prove it's NOT there.

But there's absolutely no reason why I should entertain the notion that it exists.

Yes, many ordinary things were once extraordinary. They were made ordinary by the application of science, reason and logic.

[Skip Intro]

20. Doesn't matter what you call it, your silly comparisons aside

There have been accounts of ghosts, for example, for centuries. I've never seen an account of "an invisible, non-corporeal polka-dotted hippopotamus living in" your attic before. That's not even logic, man, that's a a tactic to win a debate. Its an attept to dismiss things you'd like to dismiss, but quite can't.

Science, reason and logic are at the mercy of reality. What exists exists - science, reason and logic on serve to help translate what is.

[Dookus]

24. *shrug*

My point was valid - I have no reason to believe things for which there is no evidence.

Yes, ghost reports have existed for centuries. That doesn't mean there are ghosts. In fact, when investigated, nobody is able to actually show their existence.

Furthermore, nobody has come up with a reason for WHY there should be ghosts. There's no evidence of a soul separate from the body. There's no evidence such a soul, if it exists, survives corporeal death.

But if you think you can demonstrate the existence of ghosts, make a quick million dollars here.

http://www.randi.org/research/

[Skip Intro]

34. heh

Actually, there is video evidence of not only ghosts, but many paranormal phenomena.

You, of course, are entitled to your beliefs, and boundaries of which make things easier, or make you most comfortable.

Never said I could prove anything, as the thread is about belief.

And now we're going in circles.

Do you really think we know all that is, even all that makes up our immediate reality?

[Dookus]

35. I've never asserted we know all that is...

but I do believe firmly that the vast majority of what we DO know we learned through applying reason and scientific tools. Magical thinking hasn't given us anything.

[maggrwaggr]

41. ah, but it has. Faith, and imagination, is what forms the future

the human mind is supernatural in itself. You cannot explain, through western science, the actual source of the energy that runs our conscious thoughts. You can only trace it back to .... what? Consciousness is not a reflex.

Faith is what leads people to do things that reason tells them is foolish.

Imagination leads to a vision of something that doesn't yet exist, then a person's work is able to create something new.

i think we're all on DU because we have imagination, and we have faith.

To me, imagination alone is a supernatural phenomena. The ability to picture something that doesn't exist. What is that?

[Dookus]

43. There's no evidence

that faith or imagination are not the normal results of our very complex neurological system.

[maggrwaggr]

47. now you're contradicting yourself

because no one can prove scientifically to the contrary.

Nobody has been able to scientifically define consciousness, or imagination.

Nobody has been able to scientifically explain why a body weighs a few more grams less after death than before death.

Science may one day explain everything. But I doubt that human beings, with a limited amount of perception, will ever be able to really get it.

Imagine if we were all completely blind? We had no idea what it was like to see? Yet the world exists exactly like it does now?

I believe that we are lacking something similar to the ability to see. If we had the organ (and some have just a little vestigual bit of it and they are called clairvoyants or wizards or whatever) an entirely new dimension of reality would be obvious to us;.

[Dookus]

51. I don't claim

nor does any knowledgeable person, that science has as of today answered every question.

However, it has done more to answer real questions of real import than any other approach. I can't believe people even disagree with this.

If our goal is to understand the universe around us (which I feel is a worthy goal) we have no better tools than science, reason and logic. It has been, in only a few hundred years, extraordinarily successful.

[maggrwaggr]

56. who disagrees? They're two separate things!

Good god, I would love it if science could explain these things, and it may some day.

Science has given us civilization as we know it. The reason I can sit here and communicate with you, for instance. Whodda thunk it?

The two don't rule each other out. But what I find narrow minded is people who believe that science is the only truth, when in actuality, science only gives us a current interpretation, a current theory, a theory which will, by definition, be obsolte in a few years.

I prefer my truth to be more timeless than that.

I'm watching my 16 month old son learn the laws of physics right now. Occasionally he disregards them and gets his head smashed into the ground. I'd call that important.

At the same time, I wake up when he wakes up. Even when he's in another room and hasn't made a sound.

[Dookus]

58. And you would swear

that he doesn't make a sound? And you've ruled out all other possibilities - like perhaps you both are in the habit of waking at the same time. or that a household pet does something. Or a million other possibilities.

Why is the FIRST explanation a paranormal one?

[maggrwaggr]

60. yes, I would swear. n/t

[Dookus]

62. well it seems to me

you're chock-full of supernatural powers. Why not win the Randi challenge?

But back to your claim - if you're asleep, how do you know he hasn't made a noise?

[maggrwaggr]

67. cause he's in the other room, with my wife, who's awake

and she says he hasn't made a noise.

[Dookus]

71. ahh

but somebody else is awake, in the house. Isn't it possible your wife does something when your son wakes up? Why is a paranormal explanation the most likely one?

[Skip Intro]

44. circles - n/t

[Dookus]

52. magical thinking gave us circles?

[maggrwaggr]

19. I used to feel the same way, until

I experienced quite a few phenomena that can only be described as "supernatural". Perhaps some day science will get to a point where these things can be explained in some quantatative way, but for now, they're "supernatural."

The trouble with supernatural phenomena is that they can't be proven by western scientific methods, because there is no way to predict or control them, so you can't do an actual test of any kind.

They are literally beyond the scope of our comprehension. So to say they don't exist simply because our western scientific method can't measure them is, to me, extremely narrow-minded.

[arwalden]

79. Oh Brother!

[WildClarySage]

7. Since I live in a haunted house

my reality is para-normal. But things have settled down quite a bit since the ghostie and I have come to some agreements. I won't buy any more cactus plants and she won't keep borrowing my jewelry without asking.

Also, my best friend and I can read each other's minds. It's weird. Kewl, but weird.

[maggrwaggr]

21. tell me more about this jewelry being borrowed

in the haunted house in which I'm currently living we've had some extremely odd things happen involving jewelry.

[LWolf]

8. I believe in many things

without being able to define or explain them:

Karma. Whether it is immediate, over lifetimes, works one way or another, I can't tell you. But I know it is.

Intuition...is that paranormal? I'm an intensely intuitive person. Whatever you may attribute it to, I believe in it.

Precognition. I've experienced it.

other, non-physical beings. I don't care what you call'em; I believe they are there.

Energy. Whether you want to look at it from the perspective of science, spirit, or other "paranormal" phenomena, I believe in energy. I believe it is the "creator," whether you give it/him/her a personality or not. I believe it is the fundamental mover of all. And that we can tap into it, and influence it's direction with our thoughts, actions, choices, and intent.

Is any of that paranormal?

[achtung_circus]

12. Intuition

A hunch is a decision reached using information you didn't know you possessed, using thought processes you don't understand.

[LWolf]

22. That's right.

I just don't have all the info about what my brain is doing. ;-)

[achtung_circus]

11. lions and tigers and bears, oh my

I have lived in a house where I'd wake up to hear the doors opening, the radio playing, a party going on. A friend woke up to see a man standing at the foot of her bed watching her- she didn't come back.

I was grinding cattle feed about 20 years ago with a tractor PTO spinning away at 1,000 rpm. The world turned black, I felt evil come over me. I was so disturbed that I went into the house and phoned my parents, some 2,000 miles away to make sure that there was no bad news.

The next day we learned that a man on a neighbouring farm had been grinding feed when he got wrapped around a 1,000 rpm PTO and scrambled all over the yard.

When I am doing woodworking I sometimes "hear" my father, dead 10 years, talking with another man I believe to be my carpenter grandfather. They generally discuss what I'm doing.

No I'm not New Age, but...

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clark

[Beaker]

13. none.

I believe in that which is demonstrable.
the human mind/body is an extremely complex thing, capable of generating lots of feelings, thoughts, & images- but they are and remain self-contained.

[nuxvomica]

14. I am skeptical but I accept my own personal experience as evidence

I have had one remarkable experience of communication with a departed loved one that has given me reason to wonder but I can't say with any certainty whether it was genuine. Curiously, I feel a little disloyal in rejecting the experience. If it's genuine, what an insult to my grandmother to reject it! If it's not, what do I lose in believing it nonetheless?

[Dookus]

17. this is one of the biggest reasons why

people believe in non-existent things. They trust their own senses too much.

The human neurological system is incredibly complex. People often have hallucinations (visual or auditory), sleep paralysis (often confused with something paranormal), etc. etc.

Human perception is quite flawed.

[maggrwaggr]

23. you need something to go flying across the room in your house

and maybe you'll change your mind about your "perceptions"

:)

[Dookus]

25. Nope...

I would first examine the variety of non-paranormal reasons why something would move. Believe me, people HAVE investigated these reports, and nobody has yet shown the existence of ghosts.

But if you think you can demonstrate the existence of a ghost, make a quick million bucks.

http://www.randi.org/research/

[maggrwaggr]

27. you crack me up. It's obvious you simply haven't experienced

any of this yourself, or you'd know otherwise.

:)

I used to be like you, that's all I'll say ..............

[Dookus]

30. Correct

I haven't experienced them myself.

That doesn't matter. I've never been to Africa, but I believe it exists.

I've had auditory hallucinations while running a high fever, but I don't believe something outside of me was speaking to me.

I'd recommend reading Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" or Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World".

Both books do a very good job of explaining why human perception is not the most reliable tool in our toolbox.

[maggrwaggr]

36. I'm talking about actual experience as opposed to perception

For instance, my dogs heard the same person walking through the house as I did. They chased the person (who wasn't there) and barked at them.

I've seen things move across the room for no reason.

I've had things disappear inexplicably, only to reappear later in very odd places.

I've had all the windows in my house be opened at night, nobody had been there, snow all around the house, no footprints anywhere.

Doors open the same way.

These aren't things I've perceived. They aren't open to interpretation. They are events.

[Skip Intro]

37. Read "Doors of Perception" or some Terrence MacKenna

Why do you assume the way you are percieving reality right now, or have been up till right now, is the only or "right" perception?

Your reality is a perception.

[Dookus]

40. I stick to the things that have shown results...

the belief in the existence of an external reality that obeys identifiable laws seems to have served mankind pretty well.

I can't think of anything valuable that magical thinking has done for us.

[Nikia]

45. It has helped some individuals

Believe that such things are coincidence if you wish, but some people's lives have been saved due to precognition or ESP between individuals or knowing when they are being stared at. The book I read about such phenomena, The Sense of Being Stared at and Other Phenomena of the Extended Mind (or something like that) said that such things are common in mammals and may be survival instincts.
For the most part humans are not in constant physical danger and have focused on learning and logic over instinct. Such abilites may have become rarer or difficult to use since our logic and alalysis of things gets in the way.

[maggrwaggr]

54. yeah it's saved my butt before

but it's also fooled me.

Other times, it's done me no good at all.

One time I was shooting film out of a helicopter and I knew something awful was going to happen and the feeling got stronger and stronger and just as I was turning my head to say something to the pilot (like "fly higher!") we ran into a telephone line.

The line went across my feet, which were resting on the skid. The nose cone exploded. The helicopter shot straight up into the air. I thought my feet had been sheared off, because after the initial blinding pain I felt absolutely nothing below my ankles.

I realized I was probably going to die.

But I didn't. Somehow the pilot was able to continue controlling the helicopter and we made it to the ground.

The thing that saved us is that the wire snapped because we were moving so fast.

At any rate, the feeling that something bad was about to happen was overwhelming. Started small, got louder and louder until finally I had to interfere, but it didn't do any good.

My feet turned out okay. The skid took the brunt of the wire's force and was deeply gouged by the wire.

I was pretty damned lucky.

[Dookus]

55. Anecdotes...

The "sense of being stared at" has been tested and it has consistently failed. It's a trick we play on ourselves.

And I'll take antibiotics over precognition any day. Magical thinking does nothing to help us. In fact, it retards our progress.

[maggrwaggr]

59. no, narrow-mindedness is what retards our process

how do you think scientific progress is made?

If you accepted the scientific-truth-of-the-day as the truth, well, we'd be stuck at this technological level for the rest of time. We'd be living in mud huts.

Dreaming about that which doesn't yet exist is what gives us progress.

And asking "why?"

And questioning the current scientific "truth".

[Dookus]

63. I've let it pass a few times

but I'm getting sick of it. I am not narrow minded. Believing in the value of science and logic and rejecting magical thinking isn't narrow-minded.

There's nothing in science that says we can't dream or aspire or hope. It's a straw-man argument. The biggest dreamers in the world are the scientists. Real some Sagan, if you want to get an idea.

Science itself is self-questioning. That's the beauty of the process.

[RhodaGrits]

68. But you keep assuming that because we don't now...

have the ability to measure these phenomena, that they do not exist. Have you read Flatterlands? You remind of a few of the characters in the book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/073820675X/ref=pm_dp_ln_b_6/104-1989154-9906365?v=glance&s=books&n=507846&vi=reviews

[Dookus]

72. yes I'm well aware of that book

And again, you're insulting me rather than discussing.

I don't rule out the possibility of the phenomena you believe in. I claim that there is NO EVIDENCE available NOW to convince me they exist.

I'm not assuming they don't exist because we can't measure them. I assume they don't exist because the actual PHENOMENA themselves cannot be shown to exist, much less the forces behind them.

Nobody has shown the existence of telekinesis. If somebody DOES show that it exists, then we can start worrying about the actual forces behind it.

[RhodaGrits]

78. I already ordered the book you say is critical of reincarnation

before your last post. I am not opposed to discussion but you seem very rigid in your stance. I interpreted your statements to mean the phenomena were impossible if today you could not measure their existence. I have no experience or knowledge about telekinesis and no opinion one way or the other. I have had some experiences supportive of reincarnation and I was curious about the book you suggested. I was not insulting you "again" btw, if you took it as an insult... it was just once.

[Dookus]

81. rhoda

I apologize heartily. I see you didn't insult me. I mistakenly read a different post and thought YOUR post was from somebody else.

I'm sorry.

[RhodaGrits]

97. Apology accepted. n/t

[maggrwaggr]

69. well we're in agreement there

To me, science is simply an ever-evolving interpretation of the truth.

But it's not the truth. With a capital T, that is.

I am not of the "rational" temperment type. I am of the "idealist" temperment type.

Therefore I distrust thought that is 100% rational. To me 100% rational thought leads, ultimately, to Nazi medical experiments. It excludes morality. It excludes beauty. It excludes value of any kind.

That isn't to say it doesn't have value. It's vital. It's just not the whole truth

[Dookus]

73. OK...

now I'm being compared to nazi experimentation.

That's where I draw the line. You've been insulting me throughout the thread, but that's over the top. Good night.

[maggrwaggr]

74. Man, I had to laugh when I read that

I'm not comparing YOU to nazi experimentation. I'm saying that purely rational thought is amoral.

With purely rational thought, can you find a reason why nazi medical experiments are immoral? Can you give me a rational explanation as to why this is?

A rational solution for overpopulation is to kill half the people on earth. It's a rational solution, and it's immoral.

That's all I'm saying.

I'd have to add that your emotional response is hardly rational. :)

[arwalden]

77. So We Limit Ourselves By Thinking Too Much?

[nuxvomica]

29. Yet we use our senses every day with astounding success

Why wouldn't you trust the complex system that manages to get you to work unharmed most mornings?

[Dookus]

31. Read the research...

when tested, people do notoriously badly.

For example, eye-witnesses to events are absolutely ATROCIOUS at properly recalling details. Many studies have shown this. False memories can also be implanted.

I recommended elsewhere two books: "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer and "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. Both do a great job of explaining this.

[alwynsw]

26. Ghosts, haints, specters, whatever you choose to call them

We get fairly regular visits from my granny and my wife's best friend and roommate of nearly 20 years. My granny and I were very close.

Becky, the friend once scared a friend so badly that he refuses to come into the house unless we're home. He always says "Hi" to her upon entering.

[Nikia]

28. ESP

My first memorable experience with ESP was before I knew that it was not an accepted phenomemnom. My sister,1 1/2 years younger, and I had ESP together for most of our preadolescent childhood. We freaked out adults when we would purposely say the same thing at the same time unrehearsed for several minutes straight. I felt her feelings and would sometimes be upset myself if she was being punished or something even if I wasn't around.
We grew further apart and I became less open and more reasoning than most people. I did not think about ESP for a while.
I met my husband who has been tested by a parapsychology department with repeatable significantly higher than chance ESP for random stuff like cards. He ususally knows what is in my mind, especially if I directly mentally say things to him. He also says that he can feel people looking at him, including surveillance cameras.
My best friend and I seem to have an ESP connection as well. He also does strongly with his wife. His daughters have ESP together like my sister and I did.
Many people do experience this phenomemnom. Who knows it might be a natural instinct. Wolves find each other over miles and other animals demonstrate other long distance connections with their group. We might just not know how it works. Just think of how implausible cell phones would seem hundreds of years ago to people who did not know how they worked.

[maggrwaggr]

32. I can feel when I'm being looked at

I've actually had it wake me up a few times.

I've also experienced clairvoyance, but I can't make it happen. It happens at odd times, but it has saved my ass more than once.

I can also tell who's calling me on the telephone most of the time. (and I don't have caller I.d.)

[Dookus]

33. a number of people who claim this talent

have been tested and none have passed. If you can do it, contact Randi and win a million dollars.

http://www.randi.org/research/

[maggrwaggr]

38. you can't test these things. that is why they're supernatural

if you could test them, they wouldn't be in the realm of the supernatural anymore, would they?

I've experienced clairvoyance but I can't make it happen. It happens when I'm NOT trying to make it happen. It happens when I'm thinking about something else entirely.

You can't stay up late waiting for a ghost. I've lived in two haunted houses now, and in both of them, the phenomena happen when you least expect it. When it's the last thing you're expecting.

To say something doesn't exist simply because you can't measure it is silly. If you lived a hundred and fifty years ago and somebody turned on a laptop computer and showed you full color photographs on it, or a movie, it would be supernatural by the standards of the day.

I think there is an infinity of knowledge out there waiting to be discovered. We humans are only capable of perceiving a tantalizingly tiny portion of what's actually out there.

[Dookus]

42. and to turn it around...

I used to believe as you do. I sincerely did. I loved all that stuff when I was younger.

Then I started actually reading a lot on the subject and my thinking changed entirely.

And there's no logical reason why paranormal activity cannot be detected using the tools of science. If you really claim that you have the ability to tell when people are staring at you, why can't you do it under controlled settings?

[maggrwaggr]

49. but there is an absolutely logical reason

why paranormal activity cannot be detected using the tools of science.

If x-rays had never been discovered, would we be able to detect them?

What about all the non-visible parts of the electromagnetic spectrum?

By your argument, microbes didn't exist until we could see them through a microscope.

[Dookus]

53. what?

you're making MY argument!

Of course microbes exist, and have for billions of years. We didn't discover them through intuition, revelation, prayer or a Ouija Board. We discovered them using science.

We discovered x-rays BECAUSE we had the ability to detect them. Why should it be that the forces attributed to paranormal activity can't be detected? I'm not saying detected TODAY, but in theory - why should they be FOREVER undetectable?

[maggrwaggr]

64. hm, we may actually be in agreement and not realizing it

Read this book:


Hyperspace : A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the 10th Dimension by Michio Kaku

It explains how almost everything that is considered "supernatural" makes perfect sense in a world of 10 or 26 dimensions, which is what modern physics and string theory seems to be pointing to as our reality.

It's a fascinating book and will blow your mind.

This is what I'm getting at. To just blow-off "supernatural" experiences as nonsense is narrow-minded. I'd rather try to find a way to explain them.

Which is what this book gets at, although it's not the main thrust of the book

[RhodaGrits]

98. This has been one of my favorite books since it was

first published :-)

[arwalden]

80. LOL! A more accurate statement is "You can't PROVE these things"

My other favorite excuse is that the powers won't "allow" themselves to be tested or proven. The "bad vibes" from the skeptics prevent the ghosts/clairvoyant/dowser/whatever from being able to appear/predict/detect/whatever.

What a coincidence that you've been lucky enough to live in TWO haunted houses. I find that very interesting. Don't you find that interesting? I wonder if your NEXT house will be haunted too.

-- Allen

[mvd]

82. It could be

Some people seem to draw ghosts. Anyway, enough people have seen things that it's hard to make a blanket denial. That seems worse to me than someone who believes in everything.

[maggrwaggr]

85. we're talking scientific method, which means repeatability

is imperative to proving anything.

None of this stuff can be repeated by any way that we currently know about.

Yes, I think it's pretty fucking weird that I've lived in two haunted houses. Then again, I'm 42 years old, I'm an army brat, and I've lived in WAY more houses than most people.

[mvd]

86. I think he has a point when it comes to UFOs

Ghosts are attached to places, but if aliens existed in UFOs, they'd have to be superior and you'd think they wouldn't mind being seen by many. I'm open to the point that they don't want to have anything to do with us, but they would have made the effort to come. :-)

[arwalden]

87. I can fly. I just can't repeat it on demand. I can't do it when anyone...

... is watching. LOL.

Now for those who say that they can tell when someone is looking at them. This is something that can be tested. Very simply. We don't need to know HOW or WHY it works... I just want to see it demonstrated under controlled testing conditions THAT IT works.

Sample Test:

Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?
Am I staring at you now? Yes/No?

Count correct answers.
Count wrong answers.

Figure out if the correct answers are any greater than what you could expect from random chance.

Same thing with astrology. I'm tired of these "it's beyond measuring" and science can't understand it and it's beyond our brains' ability to understand it. Bullshit. I can understand RESULTS. Show me the results that astrology is any more accurate than educated guesses and random chance.

This can be done without explaining HOW or WHY it works... just show me THAT it works under controlled testing conditions. This should be simple enough.

-- Allen

[mvd]

88. I agree about astrology

Malloy had an astrologer on who predicted Dean would win the nomination. I just don't think the signs mean much. But we're really not near completely evolved yet IMO. I respectfully disagree with you overall. :hi:

[Dookus]

90. Hi Arwalden!

Here's a study that did exactly what you propose. They found no data to suggest people can sense "being stared at".

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-03/stare.html

Here's the conclusion:

Summary and Conclusions
Parapsychologists claim man's ability to know when he is being stared at has existed since the time of primitive man and served, in those days, to warn him of impending danger and attack from savage beasts. They also believe this ability still exists in modern men and women today. Skeptics deny this claim and believe it is nothing more than superstition and/or a response to subtle signals from the environment that are not strong enough to let us know exactly what caused them. For example, if we are in a very dark room and we suddenly sense the presence of another person-even though we do not see or hear him-we may know he is there because of the person's shaving lotion, movement of air currents in the room, body heat, etc. In other words if we are warned of another's presence, it is likely due to subtle physical cues in the environment that we normally do not attend to-not to any so-called "psychic" or paranormal ability!
To determine if people can tell when they are being stared at, two demonstrations were completed. In the first, forty individuals were stared at for an average time of 8.6 minutes while they were eating, reading, or watching a computer screen or television. When they finished they were asked if they were aware they were being stared at. Of the forty a total of thirty-five reported they were "totally unaware that anyone was looking at them." For the other five there is good reason to believe they also were not aware they were being viewed. In the second demonstration fifty students sat at a table in front of a one-way mirror and were observed by two experimenters, one minute at a time, five times during a twenty-minute observation period. The students' task was to try to guess when they were being stared at and report their degree of certainty. None of the fifty were able to correctly guess when they were being stared at. The mean accuracy score for the group was 1.24; the chance score for guessing was 1.25 out of a total of five guesses.

Despite the parapsychologists' contentions, unless replications of these two studies prove otherwise, it is prudent to conclude that people cannot tell when they are being stared at. If experimental purists question either the validity or the reliability of the outcome of these two demonstrations, I suggest they repeat them and see for themselves. If people somehow know they are being stared at-but only at a subthreshold level (which at the moment is unproven and only speculative), this "fact" is of theoretical value only and is far too weak, and unreliable to be of any practical use to modern man.

[RhodaGrits]

39. ghosts

I experienced the haunting of the Bernardsville NJ library (then housed in an old Revolutionary War era tavern building) one night in 1973 when I was there alone because the meeting I was leading had been cancelled due to heavy snow and there was no way to reach all the invited participants. I had no idea that I was listening to the "ghost" and wandered around trying to locate the "apt" that I was sure was upstairs and that must contain the woman I could hear speaking yet not locate. I inquired whether there were people living upstairs (no) and got an earful about the ghostly interactions over the years. There was no other explanation and I looked for others. (There were no footsteps in the snow when I walked around the building as I was leaving looking for the "apt" entrance I was sure must be there. It was a silent night with heavy, heavy snow and no one around.) I had never heard about the haunting prior to my experience. I have known other credible first hand accounts of other paranormal experiences from friends over the years and I believe there are dimensions that we cannot know with our limited perceptions.

One of my favorites is when my then 3 year old niece, on hearing her mother play a ragtime tune on the piano for the first time said, "Mommy that's too slow - don't you remember when you were little and I was big and we used to dance to that?"

[maggrwaggr]

46. check out the work of Ian Stevenson

<<In 1960, Professor Ian Stevenson, a famous psychiatrist at the University of Virginia in the U.S., published an eye-opening and award-winning paper, "Evidence on Memories of Previous Lives," in the Journal of American Psychical Research. This paper was considered a prelude to modern research on reincarnation conducted in western countries. Since that time, Professor Stevenson has devoted all of his efforts to further reincarnation research. In the following forty years, he collected more than 2600 reincarnation cases from all around the world, and published ten books and numerous research papers; of which many were considered by other researchers to be seminal works in the field of reincarnation. Though Stevenson used strictly traditional psychiatric methodology, traditional and non-traditional researchers cite his books and articles in their publications, the most commonly cited being Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation and Children who Remember Previous Lives. Professor Stevenson’s serious attitude, cautious style, and outstanding academic position won him unprecedented respect for his research on reincarnation from the whole of society.>>

His own website, from the U. of Virginia, is right here:

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/

He studies children who claim to remember previous lives. His studies are quite scientific, numerous, and irrefutible.

Here's one of his books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0275951898/qid=1077076145//ref=pd_ka_1/103-8672091-9611849?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

I also read a book about him, which I can't find at the moment (and I loaned it to a friend) that was written by someone who was 100% skeptical of Stevenson's claims when he started hanging out with Stevenson, but after a trip to the Druse Muslims of Lebanon and a trip to India, realized he was in over his head.

I'll keep trying to find it.

[Dookus]

57. One of my favorite books as a teen

was "The Reincarnation of Bridy Murphy".

It was a very detailed book showing how this woman HAD to have been reincarnated. Under hypnosis, she gave very detailed accounts of a life growing up in Ireland about 60 years before she was born.

It was later thoroughly debunked. She had an Irish nanny as a young girl - it was her nanny's stories she was relating.


I disagree that his stories are irrefutable. I'm not familiar with his specific history, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts they have ALREADY been refuted.

Otherwise, reincarnation would be a part of normal scientific thought. Scientists don't reject ideas just on principle. They reject them for lack of evidence.

A scientist who could actually prove the existence of precognition, esp, telekinesis, etc. would win a Nobel Prize and be instantly famous.

[Dookus]

61. Here's a critical examination of Stevenson, et. al.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1573920053/csicop/104-8971878-0678366

[maggrwaggr]

66. Haven't read that book, but I have read Stevenson

and if you read Stevenson's work, you will find his experiences and observations are simply overwhelming evidence that something is going on here which cannot yet be explained.

He's a thorough scientist and even he knows that the only way you could test what he's observed is to violently kill people while they're young adults, then wait around for a children to be born nearby who have their memories.

There's really no other way to test it, so that ain't gonna happen

[durutti]

48. Me, I'm skeptical over *everything*...

Both the paranormal and professional skeptics.

[maggrwaggr]

50. that's a very good and zen place to be

Buddhism says that's right where you want to be.

[mvd]

65. I believe in some

Ghosts, since there have been so many reports of them. Though I haven't experienced one yet, even in supposedly haunted places.

Psychic ability/intuition, to a limited degree. Not to the degree of predicting the lottery consistently or knowing a lot of details about everyone. Psychics like Sylvia Browne at least really believe they have super abilities, but I doubt they do.

Aliens in UFOs are very possible, but I don't believe in alien abductions.

Some people seem to have healing ability.

Throughout history, we've had to develop the technology to get answers to things.

[Nikia]

70. Some claim to have positive data

Rupert Sheldrake who wrote the Sense of Being Stared at and Other Aspects of the Extended Mind did many experiments and has positive data greater than chance for many ESP activites such as being stared at, card guessing, and telephone calls. He says that inspite of positive data, he and other scientists are dismissed because people are hostile to the possibility of such a thing. Many people do not want others inside their minds and others who do not have this ability are jealous of those who do. He claims that he and others like him are even more careful than normal scientists to use careful controls and objectivity because they know that they are under scrutiny.
I don't know what kind of evidence that skeptical institute is looking for. If you and a close sibling had a deck of cards and one "transmitted" the suit which the other one recorded the answer where neither could see each other other, nor the recorder the cards, how high of a score would they expect for proof. If some pair scored 30% on 500 cards, would that be proof or are high 90's expected?
Does the stress of a test interfere with the sense? Are cards boring and not a "real life" situation which the ability is most useful for? Are skeptics testing the subjects interfering and unconsciously or purposely intercepting the "message"?

[maggrwaggr]

75. Ian Stevenson has had the same problem with his work

His research is so off the map as far as western science is concerned that nobody knows what to do with his work.

[lazarus]

91. He can claim all he wants

But his studies are worthless, and full of errors. Sheldrake is a joke.

Isn't reality enough for people? I'm filled with a sense of wonder and awe at the world around me. Why do some people feel the need to go beyond the amazing reality we already have and assume things exist for which we have no evidence, and can have no evidence?

[Dookus]

92. well put, lazarus

I just posted this in the Meeting Room, but Skeptical Inquirer now has a great essay by Ann Druyan on-line at

http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-11/ann-druyan.html

It's beautiful, and it expresses what you said above.

[lazarus]

101. Thanks, Dookus

I got the gist of it from her late, great husband, Carl Sagan, in his book The Demon Haunted World. Still one of the best reads out there.

[MrBenchley]

102. Excellent post...

"Why do some people feel the need to go beyond the amazing reality we already have"
I think a major part of it is plain old wishful thinking and a need for attention. "Just think, I am so important that beings from another world traveled halfway across the galaxy to stick a finger up my poopchute."

[arwalden]

76. None.

Because it's all bull. Magic thinkers drive me nuts.

-- Allen

[snoochie]

83. I don't disbelieve

I've seen some strange things happen, but I don't assume that that proves anything.

However, I have to point out that scientists are indeed hostile to new ideas if they are far enough removed from what they're familiar with. There's a paleontologist (can't remember his name) who, when he put forward a new theory about raptor evolution, was widely ridiculed. Later he was shown to be correct.

Same thing with microbes. When the German man (don't remember his name either) first theorized about 'invisible' carriers of disease, he was ridiculed.

Prayer has reportedly been proven to have a measurable effect. There are things we do not understand. We cannot possibly prove or disprove these things. Until we do understand them enough to figure out how to measure or test for them, we'll remain at this impasse.

I pray, and I'm smart enough to know that I know nothing.

[qwertyMike]

84. I was pronounced 'dead' for about 10 minutes

Sorry, no white lights, tunnels and so on,

But in my life I have had Extreme paranormal experiences, noticeable to all the waking senses.

So what can I tell you?
The near-death thing was a dud.
The live-vibrant waking experiences were real.

Mostly in Celtic areas too. Cape Breton. Ireland.

[Auntie Bush]

89. Qwerty (hey,,,that's easy to type) It's late now but...

how about checking this site tomorrow and tell us more about your live-viberent waking experiences?

[Nihil]

94. "Believe" or "acknowledge"?

I've got a science degree, I use logic to solve technical problems in
my day job. I also admit that there a number of things that I simply
cannot explain at the moment. Instead of immediately claiming they
are fakes or the result of gullible people or liars, I leave it in
the "Don't know" pile until I can find enough information to determine
otherwise.

I've posted elsewhere about my experience of precognition.

I've also used my intuition with sufficient accuracy as to spook
Mrs.Nihil (and other family members) on several occasions.

The phenomena I've labelled "intuition" might be partially due to
unconscious evidence collection and collation - let's face it, I'm
good at my job because I pick up on things (physical clues) that
other people miss - but there are sometimes elements that are not so
explainable.

Be that as it may, I am happy to use these (and other) behaviours to
supplement my other methods, not to replace them, and leave them in
the "I don't know" pile. I don't discount the evidence of my ears
simply because my eyes provide evidence that does not exactly match.
Why should I discount the impressions, the hunches, the drawing of
conclusions simply because I haven't been "officially" provided with
the information that they give me?

Nihil

[Loonman]

95. Healthy Skepticism

I've even witnessed paranormal activity, myself.

I think it's foolish to dismiss stuff out of hand unless you have a very good reason to do so.

[truthspeaker]

96. none

no credible evidence

[Az]

99. Everyone who believes in telekenesis raise my right hand

Suffice to say I have no beliefs in paranormal activities. I am certainly open to seeing some evidence. But I will approach any such evidence skeptically and examine it before granting blanket approval.

[Auntie Bush]

100. I'm a believer!

I've experienced the power of universal energy so I KNOW it exists. But whether it was from God/universe or of my own making...I don't know.

I've seen and heard ghosts 2 times (in one case it was my deceased dogs)so I sort of believe in them.

I've experienced unbelievable coincidences so many times that they can't possibly just be coincidences.

I actually believe I had a visit from a deceased family member while I was awake...so wasn't a dream.

My dog has seen my deceased loved one several times. When he does he howls like a wolf. It's scary!

I have had many dreams where I believed a deceased person came to me with a message and all the messages were the same. (I love you and I am not dead!) These messages were to and from non-believers.

All these things experiences have me gone from being an atheist to a believer in about 3 years.