"Passion" question..follow my logic...

[truebrit71]

With all of the hoopla currently being generated by Mel's melodrama and it's potential anti-semitic backlash I got to thinking about who is REALLY to blame for JC's death...Okay, now follow along...Mel's contention (and his extremist "church", and until recently the Catholic church) is that it was the Jews fault that JC got killed. After all Pontius asked "the crowd" who they would like to free and they didn't pick JC, therefore it's the Jews fault. Obviously that is flawed logic because the only reason that Pontius asked the question in the first place was to obsolve himself of the guilt of being the one that had JC put to death.

So, if we can agree on that (and I know that is HIGHLY unlikely) then where does the blame lay? Pontius was an agent of Rome, right? So doesn't the ultimate blame lay with Rome? I mean, in all of the versions I have read, and seen portrayed on the telly, there weren't any Jewish soldiers beating JC. There weren't any Jewish soldiers nailing him to the cross, and the last time I checked it wasn't a Jewish soldier that stabbed JC in the side as he was dying on the cross....

So who killed JC? The Italians!!!!!

YOU BASTARDS!!!! ;)

Squabble amongst yourselves.....

Oh, and BTW, I don't have a dog in this hunt so don't bother with any flames....

[boobooday]

1. Isn't it ironic

That Mel's "tribute" to the Prince of Peace is filled with hate, violence and gore. Hmmm.

Not a movie Jesus would go to.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. The Italians aren't the Romans, they're the Visigoths.

If anything, the English are more Roman than the Italians.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

6. No, seriously. The Italians aren't the Romans.

The Roman race dispersed. The English are in part descended from them. That's historical fact.

[Loonman]

7. No they're not, they're Germanic

The Northern English are the true Britons.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

8. They're a mongrel race. The Northern English are Norse and Celtic

(plus a lot of other things). When the Roman Empire fell, the legions and administrators left in Britain went native. King Arthur was likely a Roman Cavalry Commander. Those people were later assimilated into the Anglo-Saxons, Celts etc.

[Westegg]

11. Tarantino sez:

Clifford Worley: You're Sicilian, ha?
Coccotti: Yeah, Sicilian.
Clifford Worley: Ya know, I read a lot. Especially about things... about history. I find that shit fascinating. Here's a fact I don't know whether you know or not. Sicilians were spawned by niggers.
Coccotti: Come again?
Clifford Worley: It's a fact. See, Sicilians have black blood pumpin' through their hearts. If you don't believe me you can look it up. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago, you see, the Moors conquered Sicily. And the Moors are niggers.
Coccotti: Yes...
Clifford Worley: So you see, way back then, Sicilians were like wops from northern Italy. They all had blonde hair and blue eyes, but uh, well, then the Moors moved in there, and uh, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin' with Sicilian women that they changed the whole bloodline forever. That's why blonde hair and blue eyes became black hair and dark skin. You know, it's absolutely amazing to me to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, that Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. Now this...
Coccotti:
Clifford Worley: No, I'm quoting... history. It's written, it's a fact, it's written.
Coccotti: I love this guy.
Clifford Worley: Your ancestors are niggers. Yeah, and your great-great-great-great grandmother fucked a nigger, yeah, and she had a half nigger kid... Now, if that's a fact, tell me, am I lying? Cause you, you're part eggplant.

[cubsfan6969]

3. A different line of thought...

Jesus died for our sins. But he arose a few days later so is it really murder?

Or


Jesus died for our sins so it was inevitable that he was to be sacrificed. So why lay blame? In the immortal words of Coach Bobby Knight, if you're gonna get raped, you might as well sit back and enjoy it.:P

[Loonman]

5. Pilate was a civil servant

Just doing his job.

The Pharisees dimed Jesus out to the Romans.

[everythingsxen]

9. While I have a feeling this will be locked...

in 5...4...3...2...1..

I will reply anyway..

While it may not have been your average everyday man on the street who was responsible for it, I put the blame on Caiaphas, the high priest.

JC was a direct threat to his power. He used his masters the Romans to do his dirty work.

[Ricdude]

10. If it's blasphemy you want...

If it weren't for Judas, Jesus would still be a Jew.

I always thought it was interesting how "positively" Judas was portrayed in Jesus Christ Superstar, as he did actually have a central role in contributing to the martyrhood of Jesus, and was just as much a part of any plan of God's grand plans as Jesus was. And he get's all the cool lines.
--
Bhudda, was he where it's at, is he where you are?
Could Mohammed move a mountain or was that just PR?
Did you mean to die like that, was that a mistake, or,
Did you know your messy death would be a record-breaker?

[stopthegop]

12. NOPE...according to Gibson

during his interview with Diane Sawyer all of us are responsible for the death of Jesus..Gibson said certain Jews and Romans were the 'material agents' of His death, but the responsibility belongs to all of us...he also said he (Gibson) was first in the culpability line...
your representation if flatly inaccurate....

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. And I was very glad to hear Gibson say that

It might ahistorical, to blame us in present day, but I think Chrsitians can certainly make the claim that it was and is all of us who crucified, and still crucify, Jesus.

If we want to go purely historical, I think we have to blame NOT the Jews in toto, but the Jewish leaders/high priests. Of course the actual killing was done by Romans, but that's not material to the discussion. It's the Jewish leadership who had the problem with Jesus, and wanted him killed.

Though one could also make a claim that Judas is the one who killed Jesus, since he betrayed Jesus, but I think that even hadn't Judas done it, the soldiers could certainly have Jesus without much effort, especially since Jesus came to Jerusalem so that he COULD be killed.

[meatloaf]

13. It was God's fault.

At least if I understand it right it was.

If God is an all powerful being who knows all and sees all then he knew what was going to happen even before he set the wheel in motion.

[blondeatlast]

18. So did Jesus Christ.

Jesus knew his fate.

[Westegg]

14. Wasn't the point that Jesus HAD to die?

I'm no Biblical scholar---though I have, and continue to, read the Bible (King James version---my fave). But isn't it the case that Jesus died to redeem us? If so, well...who the fuck cares who killed him? Isn't that missing the whole point? Jews or Romans? Jews AND Romans? It was Roman territory where it all went down. The Jews in charge had power because the Roman Emperor gave it to them. And so fucking what? "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do..." Christ HIMSELF forgave the people who killed him. So why do we concern ourselves with this now? Are we smarter than Jesus?

\Will Gibson's movie inspire a rash of anti-Semitism? I'm sure it will. It doesn't take much to set off the haters of Jews. In fact, it takes nothing at all. But hatred in general is what Jesus spent his life preaching AGAINST. "Let he who is without sin..." and all that.

Man, I've met a lot of so-called Christians in my life, but I ain't met many who understood---not even a little bit---what Jesus said, and what he meant. To quote Woody Allen (a Jew), "If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up." Exactly.

[qwertyMike]

15. Right on

I don't believe that whole Bible Jesus stuff, But if he and Mary M. and those guys really did exist I wouldn't have minded travelling with them for a while.

Crucifixions were a dime a dozen those days.
See "Life of Brian"

bert

[Westegg]

17. "Always look on the bright side of life!"

[blondeatlast]

19. Exactly, and he knew it.