The real truth about Furries.

[RedXIII]

Forget everything you learned on CSI:LV and MTV.

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/390366

As in the words of green day.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

[Orrex]

1. No sex threads!

IBTL

:evilgrin:

[RedXIII]

2. *Yells*

Furry is not a fetish. Furry is not a fetish.

The CSI episode's plot was based on a film called Plushies and Furries by gay filmmaker Rick Castro, which first aired on MTV in 2002. Castro deceived many furries and convention organizers in the making of this pseudo-documentary; scenes were contrived and staged to suit Castro's view of the world, falsely portraying furry fandom as being entirely fetish-based instead of as a fandom that has attracted a few fetishists. Participants in the film have been vilified and all but ostracized from furry fandom. As far as I can determine, the only people responsible for open "furpile parties" are Castro and his associates, trying to catch some fresh meat for a sequel

http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/csi.html

[Orrex]

5. Furry *can be* a fetish

Admittedly I have known a very small sampling of self-identified Furries--perhaps half a dozen. Literally every one of them was into it for its sexual aspect.

Though I certainly don't believe that the entirety of the fan-base is made up of such fetishists, it's possible that most people's exposure to Furries is similar to mine, in which case it's hard not to draw incorrect conclusion. If, for instance, the six that I've known were CEO's of multinational companies, I might conclude that the Furry lifestyle attracts super-successful corporate types.

Hell, I was in the SCA for a number of years, and it never once occurred to me that some of my fellow knuckleheads might be into it as a sexual aspect (outside of the rather obvious corsets-n-chainmail aspect). I suppose that the Furry subculture is analogous to that.

[Deja Q]

3. Wow. Lots to learn in this thread about those damn furries things...

[RedXIII]

6. Did you SEE THE LINK?

Yes i'm shouting,because it seems that you would rather stereotype, but you should know that movies portray all Asians as Martial artists or Gangstas.

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/390366

[Deja Q]

7. Then I'm glad I didn't see the link!

If I had, then your attempting to peg me as something (other than naive) might actually have merit!

[LeftyMom]

4. Don't take this the wrong way, but nobody cares.

:shrug:

[RedXIII]

9. Another thing i like about the hobby.

A common feature that you will often see at Furry web sites are forums where Furries can post to ask for advice on personal matters. Now, can you imagine what would happen if you asked for such advice on, let's say, a NASCAR fan site? You would probably be ridiculed mercilessly and told to stop bothering them with your personal problems. They wouldn't care, whereas the concern Furries show for one another is genuine. These are good things.

[RedXIII]

10. sorry about the double post.

=^_^=

The site seems to be a little lag today.

[RedXIII]

11. edited

edited

[Tektonik]

12. I care, I love furry fetishist flamefests

The OP is definitely a furry terrorist.

[LostinVA]

36. They are amusing

[LostinVA]

37. What I find amusing is how these threads last forever, but yet

"The truth about BDSM" would be shut down in 3 seconds.

[Carnea]

8. I prefer Monty Python's Documentary from the early seventies

Monty Python - The Mouse Problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK92NYwBMts

Damn kids today get your own hobbies you lazy bastards.

[MrScorpio]

13. Get your paws off of me ...

You damn dirty furry!

[RedXIII]

14. I also believe that there is also a stereotype that

80% of the men are gay.

[Carnea]

15. Thats because someone once walked in and said sure are a lot of Bears in here,

I've met a couple of lightweight furries. kinky and very fun. The one I met with actual animal stripes tatooed on his body.... well different strokes.

[YankeyMCC]

16. Don't piss them off Erinyes can get nasty on you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furies

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RedXIII]

18. bump

bump

[Texasgal]

19. errrr..

Just what exactly are you yammering about?

[Elidor]

20. Furries catch a lot of shit in online communities

(See Second Life for Exhibit A.) Personally, I wish every day was Halloween. I know how to make some good zombie makeup with liquid latex appliances, with makeup from most women's household cosmetics supplies. Throw in some blood capsules and a disposable shirt and you're good to go. Good times.

[RedXIII]

21. Right you are,because it seems when

i go to the Non-furry areas of second life in my wolf suit,no one will talk to me but when i go to some place like Furnation Worlds or Gay Yiffy Club, then people talk. Why is that?

[Elidor]

22. You're lucky they're not killing you

Of course, most of the WWIIOLers are gone now, but there was a time when they killed furries on sight, even actively sought them out. They also whipped up a lot of hate towards them. I read whatshisname's (Linden reporter guy) history of the Jessie Wall (absolutely fascinating), and it was amazing how much visceral hatred people in SL had for furries. The furry community needs some good PR people to combat the negativity out there. I don't "get" furries, but I feel for them. I thought a lot of the SL avatars were cute. And I hate seeing any group treated badly. Except congressional republicans. Their tears are so sweet.

[RedXIII]

23. ,,

right you are because it seems after the cold war ended and everyone being equal, haters seem to have to find another reason to hate, that seemed to start since our ancestors learned to walk and started hating everyone who is different,instead of living by the golden rule, of do unto others.

[RedXIII]

40. And here is a picture of my second life Character,you may have seen it.

[otherlander]

46. Cute!

I love the ankle bracelet.
:hi:

[Blue_Tires]

35. they seem to be at home on livejournal

at least from my observation

[KitchenWitch]

24. You know, you can post essentially the same thing over and over, and still get the same responses.

[Maddy McCall]

25. I haven't been in the lounge in a long time.

WTF is a furry and WTF should I care?

[KitchenWitch]

27. Check your PMs

:D

[Maddy McCall]

28. !!!

Bwahahahahahahaha!

:spray:

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

38. Check out the "informative" threads in the GLBT forum

:eyes:

[Midlodemocrat]

54. That's what pisses me off. I don't give a royal crap about this

stuff, but when someone tries to frame it as a GLBT issue, that is what totally sucks. As if the GLBT community didn't have enough to deal with.

PelosiFan said it best on this thread. No question.

[LostinVA]

60. Exactly

And, I still think it's a fetish, not an identity. If someone does think they're a cat, well then that's a mental illness, because people are people.

[KitchenWitch]

26. We get that you are a furry.

You do not need to post it on a weekly basis.

[RedXIII]

29. IMHO,

IMHO, i believe that most of the haters are the result of American's Puritan heritage to fear and hate anything that is different.

[Midlodemocrat]

31. Nah. It's more that the haters are happy being human

and can't relate. :thumbsup:

[Carnea]

34. No it's the unnecessary legal ramifications.

Look A couple of buddies and myself were hunting on a tree stand near old McFarsens farm down the way from the two titted glen. Anywho we were on about our third case of Iron City beer and if we didn't hear an awful racket.

Turns out the local community center next to the Abigail's Way Holistic Healing Center and Womyns Way church was holding a convention of Furries.

And a couple of them decided to go out into the woods and commune with nature.

We needless to say that was quite a mess.

Now I always eat what I kill but I really should have drawn the line at some guy with an over sized squirrels tail surgically stapled to is ass.

Needless to say we had to pay some fines and there was even a threat of a grand jury and now I gotta go across the state line to hunt cause my license has been "under review" for three years.

Since then Furries have always left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Rambis]

30. Brilliant group

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. I go to furry conventions dressed in my star fleet uniform.

Oh no, wait, I was thinking of Renaissance Faires.

[Zuiderelle]

33. Aw fuck, not this crap again.

:eyes:

At least you didn't post it in GLBT this time. Frustrated that the one there was locked?

[Blue_Tires]

39. ttt

threads like this are one of the many reasons DU is my anti-drug

[WildEyedLiberal]

41. This thread really displays DU at its worst

I don't "get" furryism or have much interest in learning more about it. It's obviously their thing, and they seem to be harmless, gentle folk, so if they're not hurting anyone, I fail to see any problem with it at all.

I have absolutely NO idea what it is about furries that causes the ugly junior high bullies to come out, but boy, are they showing up in force in this thread. Seriously, why the fuck are so many of you bothered by the fact that this guy posts threads about this? Did it ever occur to any of you that he wouldn't feel so upset and persecuted - and thus feel the need to "enlighten" people about the subject so often - if he got polite responses instead of the nasty cliquish pile-on that always happens? Yes, I've read the other furry threads by this poster, including the ones in the GLBT forum, and they were every bit as shameful. These threads resemble nothing so much as a gang of "mean girls" mercilessly tormenting the weird awkward fat kid while the rest of the school watches it happen because they're too afraid to talk back to the cool kids. It's all there - the little nod-and-wink replies between the same crowd of usual suspects, complete with cutesy sarcastic smilies and completely unsubtle references to PMs and old threads just to rub their cliquishness in for good effect - like the mean girls "whispering" to each other in the hallway while staring at the object of their derision, not loud enough for their actual words to be heard, but just loud to enough to make sure that *everyone* notices them and knows that they are talking about the uncool kid. Pathetic.

So go on and have your nasty little laugh at this guy's expense. Does that make you feel like an adult? Do you feel like a kind, generous person, making fun of this obvious misfit? Do any of you have the temerity to then pretend that you're some kind of crusaders for justice and compassion when you can't even be bothered to show a little human kindness to someone who, while perhaps a little strange, obviously means no harm? Is this how people bond in the Lounge - having a nice group pile on, making sure that you each get a snicker in? If I joined in and cracked a few clever jokes about furries, might I get a pat on the back? Maybe even eventually be let in on all the fun and awesome in-jokes - maybe even someday be one of the cool kids in the PM circle?

I have been on DU for four years and I read the Lounge almost every day. I have seen the coming and going of "popular" posters, read most of the famous flamewars, and am aware, for the most part, of the personal politics. I enjoy posting here from time to time and there are many posters here whom I like and admire. But I have never gotten involved in any of the cliquishness - deny it all you want but, as with all cliques, it's blindingly obvious to everyone who isn't in the club - because I never wanted to take a side in any of this crap. I still don't. I'm not making this post because I give a damn about any of that petty bullshit, but because I am thoroughly disgusted with the pile on the OP is receiving and I know good and well that no one else will bother objecting to this junior high nonsense because they're afraid of alienating some of the Lounge's A list just to defend a hapless random poster who is a "nobody" in their eyes. I'd really like to think that this nastiness is just groupthink and peer pressure, rather than an inherent lack of kindness, but then again, I'd have hoped middle-aged adults would be thoroughly beyond such school cafeteria cruelties.

[Madrone]

44. Interesting.

I usually think of the movie "Mean Girls" when I see the usual offenders do exactly what you're referring to in your post. :thumbsup:

I don't "get" furryism either - but I DO have interest in learning about it. It's not something I'd seek out on my own, so I really appreciated this topic because I learned something I didn't know, and if I ever DO encounter someone that's into furryism I will have a little more insight and understanding. More than not getting furryism, though, I don't get the irrational outrage? offense? whatever it is that turns other people into frothing at the mouth haters. It's like watching a bunch of fundies confronted with the GLBT community. :shrug:

So again - to the OP, I really DO appreciate your post and the time and care you took to explain something I was unfamiliar with. I am a person that "likes to know" - where "know" includes everything I possibly can. I am especially interested in people, what makes them tick, what they think, and who they are. Your post taught me something and made me a better, more understanding, and more well-rounded individual. For that I thank you. :)

To WEL - Thank YOU for so eloquently stating my thoughts *exactly*, and in a far more polite and respectful manner than I probably would have. :yourock:

[LostinVA]

45. The thing I don't understand about these threads is

It's a fetish. How long do you think a thread called "The truth about BDSM" would last? Not very long.

Also, some people have an issue with this poster (and others) posting threads about it in the GLBT forum declaring it a GLBT issue.

[Madrone]

49. Well obviously some of the people involved do not feel it is a fetish.

I don't have an opinion on that either way. A thread entitled "The truth about BDSM" would last as long as the conversation could be civil, informative, and not used as an excuse to post adolescent sexual jokes and innuendo. I think that if someone were trying to explain their feelings on an emotional level and not a purely sexual level that that thread would stand. I also don't think it would draw the same amount of nastiness or ridicule.

As for the GLBT thing - because the person I responded to mentioned reading all of those threads I decided to read one too, just for reference. There was one locked thread on the main page I read. Whether or not you agree with that person they were VERY respectful and trying desperately to be understood. So you don't agree with them trying to make it part of the GLBT community - fine. I don't agree with that either. On the other hand, I DO understand what the person was saying, their emotions, how they FEEL - how it's a very real part of their identity. Can I relate to that? No. I CAN understand where they are coming from though, and I do get what they are saying. I understand the parallels, and understand why they were trying to make their attackers UNDERSTAND the correlation. If anyone SHOULD understand those feelings it IS the GLBT community. Instead they were treated like a GLBT person in a "God Hates Fags" convention. So I don't understand the hatred, nor the ridicule, nor the need to attack the person, or people like him/her. A better and more compassionate approach IMO would be to say "I can relate to the feelings you mention - to an extent. There are indeed many parallels in how our communities are treated, and because I know how difficult it to be treated like scum every day for being who I AM I am sincerely sorry for your pain. I do understand what you are saying and how you feel, but I do not agree that Furries can be by definition included in the GLBT group. Society has made us have an understanding of one another because of how we are treated and perceived, but we are not the same." - THE END. Continue to engage in discussion if you're interested in doing so - and if it makes you so angry you can't have compassion or restrain your nastiness ignore the poster or hide the thread.

It doesn't seem that difficult to me. :shrug:

BTW LostinVA - everything I wrote above is in general and not specifically directed toward you. From what I remember, you were pretty civil and didn't cross the line into nastiness.

[Carnea]

50. So about three posts then

"I don't have an opinion on that either way. A thread entitled "The truth about BDSM" would last as long as the conversation could be civil, informative, and not used as an excuse to post adolescent sexual jokes and innuendo. "

Have you seen the Reverse Cowgirl thread now that is a .....

[Madrone]

51. Yeah well ...

Pretty much. ;)

I was just thinking about the mid-90's when I was a member of a Christian chatroom entitled the Jesus Cafe. Now, I'm by NO MEANS Christian, in fact, there's no love lost between me and the fundies. And this chatroom was CHOCK FULL o' fundies. And you know what? The discourse in that chat was civil, respectful, and people really tried to understand one another's perspective. I was thinking how fucked up it is that DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND is less able to control their collective selves and be tolerant and understanding than the fucking JESUS CAFE. (disregarding anything about the REAL Jesus as we all know the fundies wouldn't KNOW JESUS if their lives depended on it)

Yes, I DID see that Cowgirl thread. LOL I was actually thinking that same thing when I read the question about the BDSM thread but didn't mention it as I'm certain it's an anomaly. :rofl:

[Dangerously Amused]

53. Thanks, Madrone. Well stated.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. "If anyone SHOULD understand those feelings it IS the GLBT community"

THANK YOU for expressing exactly what disgusted me about those threads. For a person who experiences pain, alienation, and persecution just because of who they are to turn around and do the *exact same thing* to someone else horrified me. The nasty and belittling comments directed towards RedXIII and the couple of other furries were the same sort of hateful crap I've seen directed towards GLBT people by bigots. It was extremely obvious that furries consider furrism an integral part of their identity, not just some bizarre sexual fetish. How would the GLBT posters on DU react if every thread they posted about their identity was shut down by a rabid group of haters insisting that they were just sexual fetishists? That would be disgraceful, but that's exactly what has happened in every furry thread I've seen. Anyone who bothers to read those threads with an open mind can see that the furries are just trying to be understood, but it doesn't matter how many times they insist that, for them, it is far more an identity issue than a sexual issue - the people who should understand that very struggle the most are behaving as hatefully as the people who routinely persecute them. How utterly sad.

Of course, a good number of the posters engaging in the nasty pile-ons are not GLBT, and plenty of people who tried to be compassionate and constructive were GLBT, so this isn't even about that, really. The GLBT forum just happened to be the place and the excuse for a bunch of the kool kids to bond through the shared abuse and torment of a "weirdo" whose real human concerns they made no attempt to understand.

[Zuiderelle]

59. If you care to find the threads in GLBT, you'll see that this was discussed at length.

And although anyone's ostracism or abuse could be seen as similar to GLBT issues, it isn't appropriate to claim that furry issues ARE GLBT issues. They are no more GLBT issues than feminist issues or African American issues.

I guess the OP has gotten what he sought out to get two months ago when he started this in GLBT. A lot of exposure for his identity/fetish/chosen minority-status. Congratulations for that, RedXIII. :toast:

[WildEyedLiberal]

73. Uh, I DID read the threads in GLBT.

As I very clearly stated in my post.

They only serve to reinforce my opinion that this amounts to nothing more than a cruel schoolyard pile-on. I didn't read a "discussion" in those threads; I read a bunch of people mocking RedXIII and his fellow furries, making fur suit and fetish jokes, and furiously telling him that he had "no business" bringing his "fetish" (the fact that he and others adamantly insist that furrism is not a fetish to them fell on deaf ears) into the GLBT forum. If people disagreed with the premise that furryism is or isn't a GLBT issue, then surely to Christ it is not hard for people to say that civilly without making cruel jokes and ganging up on the one or two "furries" like a pack of jackals.

I think it's disgusting that the cool kids are hiding behind the GLBT forum and GLBT rights as an excuse to be unremittingly cruel and nasty to other DUers.

[Zuiderelle]

74. I don't think people should make fun of him, but I did resent him trying to make it a GLBT issue.

I don't really know what cool kids you're referring to, and I'm certainly not one of them, that's quite clear to me. But I do not understand him bringing it to the GLBT forum. If you read his thread from 2007 in the Lounge, there weren't responses like that. Why? Because it was in the lounge, and he hadn't already posted it in GLBT. This time, there's already been a two-month thread, finally, mercifully locked, discussing this "issue" when all the time, it really belonged in here. Judging by the views on that thread in GLBT, it's clear that people were drawn to it, could be out of curiosity, but most likely pointing and laughing.

He can do whatever he wants, but I felt invaded by that issue in GLBT, and it's frustrating enough dealing with all the "Bush is evil so he must be gay" and "Mann Coulter" crap, without having to fend off this furry business.

Plenty of people did say it to him civilly that it wasn't a GLBT issue. Granted it's not entirely his fault that we became completely sick of it, when another thread was started with even more adamant and ridiculous claims that it should be in the GLBT forum. But the result is that we're sick of it.

[Dangerously Amused]

52. Thank you. Well said.

[Zuiderelle]

56. Perhaps if you understood the context. RedXIII started this in GLBT.

Then it was discussed in another thread in GLBT that became ridiculous because it was trying to associate furries with GLBT issues. Perhaps reading that thread might give you a clue as to why several of us are sick to death of this, and why I personally think the OP is not completely sincere in his reasons behind posting it.

[Midlodemocrat]

62. Yup.

But it's so much easier to claim that the OP is being bullied than it is to actually research why members of the GLBT community and supporters are sick to absolute death about this.

[Madrone]

63. LOL

I saw one locked thread in that forum on the first page. Another one was linked to in this thread. From the brouhaha you are participating in I truly expected to see multiple locked threads all over the place. I read those threads. All TWO. I expected maybe to see the "furred" being a bit assholish - because even though the RULES state you're not supposed to follow people around from place to place and continue flamewars, well, at least then I could UNDERSTAND the bitchiness and ridicule directed at the OP. Understand where it was coming from at any rate, whether or not I agree with it or find it distasteful. Hmmm. Surprise number two. People discussing "furry" from a personal standpoint were very respectful, and were actually spending more time trying to explain their feelings and why furry and GLBT draw parallels for them. One thing I DID notice was a lot of people snarking that that subject should be discussed in the LOUNGE. So isn't it interesting - here's one in the Lounge and the same people show up in it to bitch about the thread.

But it's so much easier to be nasty and "absolute sick to death" than compassionate, willing to understand, or to keep quiet if you have nothing positive, kind, or productive to say.

The "do your research" argument doesn't do much to help your position here.

[Midlodemocrat]

64. LOL.

coming from you, that's a compliment.

:boring:

[Madrone]

65. Well, it certainly wasn't meant to be an insult.

But I'm not surprised you don't recognize that.

Ah well, more fodder against me for your long memory. ;) Pretty soon you're going to have difficulty keeping track!! :o :+ :*

[Zuiderelle]

67. I think you're making way too much of this. But that's ok.

[Madrone]

69. The irony.

It's thick!

[Zuiderelle]

70. Well, ok then. Have a lovely day yourself.

[Phillycat]

66. Wow, this is an amazing post.

Very, very well-said, and spot on.

[last_texas_dem]

72. You summed up how I feel about this pretty well

and put it much better than I ever could.

[Archae]

42. I love this... (sarcasm off)

Being a "furry" myself, (actually I have a "feathersona" instead of "fursona,") I enjoy good pin-up art.

Like here, drawn by a WOMAN.
www.michelelight.com
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/michelelight/

Here's "Archae," namely me.
(An anthropomorphic archaeopteryx.)


It's just harmless fun.
Yes, there are some weirdos in the bunch, but that's in *ANY* fandom.

Look up "Sailor Bubba" if you don't believe me.

Or Kirk/Spock "slash."

So good for you, RedXIII.

And those getting their jollies dumping on us furrys, bite me.

[DarkTirade]

43. That Kirk/Spock slash pairing is such bullplop...

everybody knows who Spock was schtupping.

[BreweryYardRat]

47. Don't be a drama queen about it, 'kay?

The only people who (negatively) give a shit about furries have too much time on their hands or were exposed to one of the real crazy ones. Your signature line shows you're sane, so there's no cause for complaint on that account.

[otherlander]

48. Back when I was a lurker

I don't think this is how DU would have reacted to this thread.

What happened, guys? :shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

57. I found the thread you originally posted in GLBT about this.

Ironic that it should have been posted in the lounge in the first place instead of in GLBT two months ago. Maybe if you hadn't started such a storm trying to associate being a furry with GLBT issues, no one would be giving you such grief here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=70084&mesg_id=70084

[Zuiderelle]

71. My mistake, you actually posted about it first last summer here in the Lounge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6856256

And then in January...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7785610#7785610

THEN you posted it in GLBT, which is when people there objected.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=70084&mesg_id=70084


Thanks for posting this one in the lounge. Putting it in GLBT is likely the cause for the change in reactions to this from those responding to your other threads about it.

Peace out.

[kentauros]

58. And then there's the concept of

Otherkin, including furries (and centaurs, of course! )

[kentauros]

68. Another interesting subset to this

is how some in the furry world don't consider mermaids, satyrs and centaurs as part of them, while others are all-inclusive.

Otherkin would probably be the better term to use since it is naturally all-inclusive :)
At the same time, I would think there would be parallels to GLBT, yet, I can recall learning of those within that community being just as "exclusionary" towards other members of the other "letters". And all that's secondhand info from some of my bi friends. I also have not read those threads being referenced here, since I assume the furry community held their own just fine in the discussion :)

[Fran Kubelik]

61. So I read the info at the link.

It might be helpful if you pulled some key points from the presentation for people, since it's a lot to sit through.

The one thing I took away from it is that it's much less of a sexual thing than I had always thought. Thanks for helping to clear that up for me. My obvious follow-up question is: why then were you posting about it in the glbt forum? If being a furry means you have an appreciation for anthropomorphizing animals, and is more of a fandom thing than an identity thing, and definitely not a sexual-orientation thing (as was pointed out several times in the presentation you linked to), why were you essentially trying to make the opposite point in glbt? That's the part that confuses me.

Otherwise, yeah, the furry culture seems quite mild and non-threatening. I'm sorry that furries get hassled based on misconceptions people have. I think the main reason you're getting hassled here, though, has nothing to do with furry hate and everything to do with glbt-ers not understanding why you're trying to conflate the two issues.