If your meal is ruined by screaming children, do you complain to the manager?

[MonkeyFunk]

I did the other day for the first time. There's a great sushi place we love, but it's not cheap. A full meal for two of us is probably $70+. It's a very nice place.

But, strangely, this is also a place where people often bring young kids. I don't get it. I can't imagine my parents ever taking us to any place that pricey when we were kids. But they do. And too many times now, our meal has been ruined by being sat next to screaming kids.

Last weekend, we went very early, the place had plenty of seats, but they sat us next to a little girl in a high chair - maybe 18 - 20 months. She was fine for awhile. Right until our food arrived.

Then she just shrieked and screamed and, of course, her mother did absolutely nothing about it. I had two bites of sushi and asked the waitress to pack up the rest of my food. I just couldn't possibly enjoy a meal while a child shrieked not 4 feet away from me.

On the way out, I asked to speak to the manager. I explained what happened, and that it wasn't the first time - in fact we had stopped going there for about 6 months because so many meals had been ruined by children. We started going back recently, probably had 2 great meals, and then this happened. It's so frustrating!

The manager did little other than ask to be seated in a "quiet" area, but she couldn't guarantee there would be a quiet area.

Gah! It's a very large restaurant, with different rooms. How 'bout putting all the kids in one area? Or, god forbid, have management approach parents whose children are screaming and ask them to do something about it.

[PeaceNikki]

1. I just chuck flatware and salt-shakers at them in my best ninja-like fashion.

[mainegreen]

2. I would have shoved sushi up the mom's noses and ears!

And dumped the miso on her head.

:D

[Gormy Cuss]

124. I'm sitting at your table.

:D

[MonkeyFunk]

3. can't you read?

It was a SUSHI restaurant! No flatware, no salt shaker. Jeeez...

[AlCzervik]

4. wasabi, that could be a weapon.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. I remember the first time I had wasabi.

I was fairly young, and it was my first time eating sushi, so I didn't know what wasabi tasted like.

When I saw it on the plate, I assumed it was guacamole or something, so I ran the piece of sushi through it and took a bite.

I swear, half of my brain cells exploded right there.

:rofl:

[AlCzervik]

7. you never forget your first time.

:7

[Midlodemocrat]

57. LOL. My son STILL does that. Loves wasabi. Go figure.

[PeaceNikki]

5. OK, Wasabi and chop-sticks.

Jeeesh. Improvise. :eyes:

[swag]

8. Funny you mention this today. Last night, the usual low-key,

out-of-the-way, easy going, highly rated neighborhood Texas barbecue joint was infested by families with shrieking infants and toddlers. Jolting. I chalk it up to the Rose Festival and the very nice weather.

I didn't complain to the manager, though. I just had another beer, concentrated on my smoked trout, black-eyed pea salad, and collard greens, and tried not to let the oblivious solipsistic families get on my tits too much.

It can be a real aggravation, though. When good restaurants start getting too consistently populated by families (or groups) who insist on bringing their uncontrollably loud or unruly kids (or adults), those restaurants cease being good and I cease going.

Sorry, but I don't pay that much to eat in an annex of somebody's nursery with tots who are still testing out their shrieks and yells. It's pretty fucking far from cute to me. It's pretty fucking jarring and obnoxious. Get a goddamned babysitter. Your shrieking kid (who doesn't appreciate good barbecue or much of any other kind of edible food) would prefer that and so would I. Also, it's irritating to have to periphally see you grab them and stand up to do that stupid baby-rocking thing for half an hour in the front of the restaurant.

[Fran Kubelik]

35. See, now, you lost me here.

Also, it's irritating to have to periphally see you grab them and stand up to do that stupid baby-rocking thing for half an hour in the front of the restaurant.

I get the annoyance with parents who bring unruly kids to grownup restaurants. I get the frustration with parents who don't do anything when their child starts disrupting other people's dining experience. But one who actually removes the child from the scene and takes them to the front of the restaurant to quiet them down...isn't that the kind of parent who is doing the right thing?

[swag]

52. No, they were sitting up there.

There are compulisve stand-up child rockers.

I know I'm an unreasonable grouch.

[redqueen]

66. No you're not.

And even if you are, so what. It looks good on you. :)

[tigereye]

38. ooh, you lose points for that last sentence - you have to rock the babies...

see, those parents are doing the right thing.... by taking the yellers outside! :)


We parents sometimes get tired of eating take-out at home while the baby sits in the swing so we can eat...

[swag]

53. No, they were sitting up there.

There are compulsive stand-up child rockers.

I know I'm an unreasonable grouch.

[tigereye]

87. I was teasing you - sometimes you gotta rock em or they start wailing

Nah, you're a good egg. :pals:


It's just hard to be a parent sometimes and occasionally we all make a bad call on taking em out. I don't really like that these kinds of threads come down to we parents wailing "but you just don't get it!" :rofl:

[swag]

102. I'm only going to eat at hard-liquor bars and strip joints from now on.

[Monk06]

9. Yeah I say, "Hey manager, these children is way undercooked."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bucky]

82. Can't you read? It was a sushi restaurant!

[jmowreader]

131. And you're not supposed to cook Soylent Green anyway!

[Monk06]

153. Hey you can order Robata or would that be Robaba

[Pierre.Suave]

10. I can't even remember the last time

I was at a restaurant that had kids in it.

[JackBeck]

11. No, that's the least of my worries.

Especially when you ride public transportation that has children in their various states of happiness or crankiness regardless of what time of the day.

I guess it's just whatever your personal threshold is on that certain day.

[China_cat]

12. There was once an episode of the Cosby Show

where Bill took a bunch of kids to a good restaurant, supposedly as a treat. The kids were fairly well behaved but I think every parent should have to view that episode for what went on when it came time to order. (Bill ended up having to send the waiter out for burgers and fries) It is a wonderful object lesson on why eateries catering to adult palettes are not a good place to take children.

If you want them to start learning how to behave in a restaurant you can start with some lower scale places. It doesn't have to be McDonald's or any other fast food place, but Denny's, or Cracker Barrel or any of a host of other places make good training grounds.

[LisaM]

94. He sent the waiter out for burgers and fries?

Why didn't he go himself? (I know - it was a tv show). But isn't the waiter presumably responsible for multiple tables? How can he help the other customers if he's getting burgers and fries for Cosby's kids? Are they supposed to sit there and wait?

[MonkeyFunk]

96. It's friggin' Bill Cosby!

The guy's a trillionaire. Yeah, if I was his waiter, I'd run out for burgers. Fuck the cheapskates at my other tables. It's all about the Coz.

[China_cat]

105. And you expect a single adult to leave 5 or 6 kids

sitting in a restaurant by themselves?

Upscale restaurant, early hours, few patrons, enough waiters for 1 per 2 or 3 tables. Yeah, he sent the waiter (and paid him well for it)

The idea is the lesson to be learned that what adults think of as a treat for kids, is viewed as a true 'yuck' by those same kids.

[jmowreader]

136. No...

I expect the single adult to take the 5 or 6 kids to Ruby Tuesday, Applebees or one of the million other restaurants that have food children like.

I've told this story before, but I once designed a menu for a gentleman named Bobby Warren (who died in the line of duty--fatal traffic accident while taking a load of linens to the laundry plant), who had a history of running extremely high-end restaurants. This was to be his finest restaurant ever--six tables in three rooms, one waiter per table, just every amenity you could ever imagine and many I never knew existed. (He later invited me to a complimentary meal at his establishment. I am never eating in a place that nice again--it isn't all that comfortable eating in a restaurant where you're afraid to get the silverware dirty.) Anyway, we worked and worked on this menu for weeks on end...and then we got to the lower right corner of the last page, where the children's menu was. Children's menu. At a place where the least expensive entree was thirty dollars and there were several over-$100 selections. I cannot possibly imagine what would motivate anyone to take a child to a place like that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. No.

I guess I expect to be (possibly) bothered by kids, people on cellphones, groups of people with loud braying laughs, table noseblowers (gosh I hate that) etc. when I go out to eat in public. Yes it bothers the hell out of me because I have taught my kids to sit at the table and behave, but I realize that the only place I could truly be sure of enjoying a meal is in the solitude of my own home. I am sorry your dinner was ruined and that the parents were so unattentive.

[RadiationTherapy]

141. Wow. You are a veteran of this topic.

What you said is what I attempted to, albeit sarcastically and caustically. It totally did not get through to the op. I can't believe you didn't get a reply. You are absolutely correct.

[LibDemAlways]

14. Unfortunately the manager is often between a rock and

a hard place when it comes to screaming kids and inattentive parents. A manager who speaks up on your behalf is likely to piss off the offenders who might be regular customers. On the other hand, if you ask and he or she does nothing, you are going to be the pissed off one.

I think rather than expecting management to have a chat with the kid's parents, it might be more prudent to simply and straightforwardly ask to be moved with the explanation that you cannot enjoy your meal while listening to an out of control child.

I totally sympathize with you. A couple of years ago I posted a similar thread after having a meal ruined by a three-year-old who screamed nonstop for a half hour and threw plates. I was amazed by the number of people who told me I was wrong and if I didn't like listening to the screams of a cranky child, I should stay home.

[tigereye]

89. well, no one should let em thrown plates, and they should have taken the kid

home. I would never have tolerated that from my toddler. He would have been out of there so fast it made your head spin.

[LibDemAlways]

129. When my daughter was small we removed her at the first sign of

a peep and then took turns eating. I just can't see inflicting a cranky child on strangers who are paying good money for a meal out.

[LisaM]

95. I sat next to a kid on a plane who threw up on me

The parents were in the row behind us, and put the two little kids together in the row in front of them. They knew their boy was sick, too. And they let him get sick and throw up on me rather than have one of them sit with him. I, too, was amazed at the number of people here who defended the parents.

[LibDemAlways]

137. I know hindsight is 20-20 and you had no way of knowing

that kid was going to throw up on you, but it's incredibly nervy to sit small kids with a stranger in the first place. What the hell was wrong with those people? What happened to you is just terrible. I would have been so pissed at the parents the entire plane would have heard about it and it probably would have taken a couple of flight attendants to keep me from scraping the vomit off my clothes and hurling it at them.

There is just no excuse and no defense.

I've met couples who put themselves and their comfort first, and the kids are like second-class members of the household. Looks like you had the misfortune of meeting up with some of them. Hope that's the first and last time.

[AmyDeLune]

15. Yeah, it's really hard to eat'em when they're screaming like that.

...and with nothing but chopsticks, well, then it just gets messy...





:hide:



Personally, I have high child tolerance for most things, but I sympathize with you. I know there are things that are hard to deal with with children, but parents ignoring bad behaviour is a pet peeve for me too.
All you can really do is let management know why you won't be eating there any more. Sucks when it's good food though.

[Missy Vixen]

16. Depends

If it's anywhere with a kiddie menu, we suck it up and deal. We're in their territory, therefore, we're friendly and make as quick of an exit as possible. When we see parents who are attempting to teach the small fry acceptable table manners, we make a point of stopping on our way out and issuing a sincere compliment to them. (The best example we've seen was a family at the Maltby Cafe, the "hot" place in Western Washington to have breakfast. They brought crayons and coloring books for the kids so there was no squirming while waiting for the food to arrive. Afterwards, the older children were tasked with presenting the tip and the "thank you" to the server as they left. Wow. What a pleasure.)

If the place has white tablecloths, servers who introduce themselves to us, and a wine list, though, we politely ask to be reseated if there's a problem. The worst "fancy restaurant" experience we've had re: people bringing kids to an inappropriate venue is Bellevue's Daniel's Broiler. We've noticed during the last couple of visits there, though, that the "vogue" of bringing a child there has evidently worn off. Then again, maybe people don't want to pay a minimum of $30.00 for an entree little Madison Britney will throw on the floor instead of eat...

Julie

[MonkeyFunk]

27. That's the thing

if I'm at a burger place, I don't mind. This is an up-scale sushi restaurant. No "kiddie menu". I don't understand why so many parents bring the kids there.

[Missy Vixen]

72. They believe they can force everyone else in the restaurant to their will

>I don't understand why so many parents bring the kids there.<

I don't, either. What exactly is it that the child will eat? I have a hard time believing that an under-five year old has a hankering for some sushi.

Julie

[Vickers]

17. Of course not.

I simply tell my kids, "SHUT THE HELL UP."

[CreekDog]

20. have you no discretion???

God Bless You!!! :hug: :applause:

[mokawanis]

18. I know it's a drag but

it takes a village...

[asteroid2003QQ47]

19. Out of control kids should be the exception.

It takes IN control parents!
No, I'm not a control freak, it just seems that
responsible parenting has gone the way of the dodo.

[redqueen]

68. "responsible parenting has gone the way of the dodo"

By and large, this seems to be the case, yes. (Idiocracy is real!)

[tigereye]

92. nah I think it's that 10-20 % or less in some cases, who give the rest of us a

bad name.


When I was a kid, the only place we were ever taken was McDonald's (there were 5 of us) and on special occasions to the local "fancier" restaurant... ;)


:hi: RQ!

[MonkeyFunk]

103. I agree

I see plenty of well-behaved kids in restaurants, and plenty of parents who make sure their kids are well-behaved. Of course, nobody comes here and posts about how they had a meal that wasn't ruined by children.

[tigereye]

147. maybe they should!

:rofl:


I don't think I've ever had that experience. For some reason I rarely see kids running amok or out of control in restaurants, seriously. I haven't seen anything like that for years!


Maybe it's where I live, or something. I hear plenty of babies and toddlers babbling and yacking in a developmentally appropriate fashion, or crying, but then everyone says "ssssshhh" or takes em out for a walk. I work with kids so I think I have a higher tolerance for kids running around and shreiking in general though.



Anyway, I hope your next sushi dining experience is more pleasant! :hi:

[LibDemAlways]

143. I went back to substitute teaching this year after

being out of the classroom for two decades to raise my own daughter. My God, there must be very little parenting of any kind going on at all these days. Kids are generally rude, hostile, and belligerant. And I'm not talking just high schoolers or middle schoolers. Elementary school kids routinely talk back, pay no attention to directions, and just do whatever they damn well please. I had two kindergarteners get up and run out of the classroom the other day while I was reading a story to the class. By the time I made it to the door, I couldn't see where they'd gone. It was a horrible feeling. And there are no consequences.

One day in 8th grade a black kid and white kid got into a verbal tussle and the white kid came out with the "n" word. I immediately sent him out to the dean expecting not to see him again that day. He was back in five minutes. He had simply been told not to do it again. WTF? The kids get no parenting at home and no consequences for poor behavior at school. No wonder they're out of control.

[redqueen]

150. From where I am seeing things, I'm getting the same picture you are.

I wish I could agree with tigereye above... but yeah...

*sigh*

[Darth_Kitten]

23. World doesn't owe anybody else's kids sushi.

Get a freakin' sitter!!!!! :)

[terrya]

21. If it's that pricey, you bet I'd complain.

First of all, I'm going to get into "when I was a kid" mode here.

Growing up, Dad didn't make a lot of money. He was blue collar, so we didn't get to go to pricey restaurants. Nevertheless, we were expected to behave. Hell, even when we went to Bonanza, which was the kind of place we'd go for eating out. So, that's my way of prefacing my complaint about people who CLEARLY have no business being parents, if they can't fucking even control their screaming children. I've seen that time and time and time and fucking time again...kids scream. Parents just fucking sit there, like they've been lobotomized or something. It fucking infuriates me.

You and the bestest boyfriend in the world went out to a pricey restaurant for a nice meal. I don't know...you may have a glass of wine. You were expecting a nice, quiet dinner and you had to put up with a bunch of screaming brats. Damn right you should have complained...and the manager SHOULD have approached those parents and asked them to control their kids. That wasn't Chuck E. Cheese's, for fuck's sake. It was a nice ADULT restaurant. You shouldn't have to pay to put up with crap like that. And you had every right to expect NOT to pay for your dinner if the management refuses to do anything about it.

[Darth_Kitten]

24. You went to Bonanza, too? I always behaved there.

You got a sucker with your burger. :)

[terrya]

33. Oh, Bonanza and Ponderosa were big favorites of ours!

I sort of thought they were exactly the same. :-)

[Blue-Jay]

81. Hell, Terry - Where you grew up, Bonanza WAS the "fancy restaurant"!

:rofl:

I kid, I kid.... I actually grew up in the same town, only two states over. :hug:

[terrya]

133. That isn't too far from the truth, Blue-Jay!

We ARE talking about Decatur, after all. :-)

:hug:

[Callalily]

22. That's very frustrated and

quite a dilemma for the wait staff as well as the manager.

We all have a right to eat in peace, and parents have a right to bring their kids out in public (gasp). Unfortunately there are parents who can not parent, which makes everyones eating experience a nightmare.

There is no easy solution.

Btw . . . I simply adore sushi. And yes, it gets expensive at certain restaurants (the good ones) but it's well worth the price.

Good luck!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. hasn't happened to me yet. i think its because i live in younger parts of the city

[bertha katzenengel]

26. No. n/t

[flvegan]

28. What heppened to parenting?

When my brother and I were little, if we acted up, we got one warning. If you don't stop, we're leaving. That was it. And my mom made damn good on that promise. Didn't matter where we were. Church, restaurant, supermarket, etc. Yeah, I'll bet it sucked to be my parents, but you trade in shit not sucking like that when you have kids, I think.

Most of my friends were raised in somewhat the same fashion, and we've had this same talk.

At any rate, sorry your meal was ruined. To answer your question, yes I would/do. I complained to a supermarket manager about a kid throwing fruit in the produce section. I brought him over, pointed at the parent and the kid, and repeated my complaint. The mother looked at me like I had just pulled a gun on her. Damn she was angry. Like it was my fault the manager was having a talking to with her. I'll also happily turn and tell the guy in the movie theater to turn his damn phone off after it rings for the 10th time. Some people need to have their self-importance checked.

Whew. Turned that into a rant, didn't I?

[mikeytherat]

30. What happened to parenting indeed!

Recently, I went out to dinner with Mrs. Rat's sister's family, and we went to a "family friendly" Mexican chain restaurant. What I saw inside that eatery was appalling: food spilled EVERYWHERE (like a perimeter berm of beans and rice encircling each table), and kids running and screaming - it was surreal. I actually thought someone was winding us up - like a Candid Camera or punk'd sort of vibe - but it was real.

It was a real WTF? moment for me. Like you, I would have lasted about two seconds before mom and dad removed me from the premises. And while I did observe several well-behaved and obviously well-parented kids in the place, the majority behaved like ferrets after a double-espresso.

mikey_the_rat

[AngryOldDem]

54. It's because most parents think the sun rises and sets on their kids.

And the kids know it, and the know that gives them license to behave however they want. And at the risk of sounding like a crotchety old person, kids today ARE spoiled. Much more than my generation, and the one that came after. No manners, no sense of anything but the self.

I have a death stare that I can turn on a kid and make his blood turn to ice. I've done it many times. I make it clear that I don't tolerate stupidity. Not even from kids.

If I'm in a restaurant other than a family-oriented one, I am paying for the ambiance as well as the food. If a kid is spoiling that for me, then hell, yes, I'm complaining.

[Midlodemocrat]

56. Well, I think the sun rises and sets on my kids. And part of that is

teaching them to behave in public. I adore my children, but wouldn't put up with that for a New York second.

[redqueen]

69. Exactly.

I adore my kids... they are the most important people to me... but one bit of that acting out crap and they get one warning, then we leave.

[AngryOldDem]

83. But there are many parents who don't see it the same way.

Maybe they are the problem.

Either that, or they just can't be bothered. I've seen both types in public: Parents who sit and smile sweetly as their kids run riot, and those who are just totally, sweetly oblivious to the chaos around them.

[LibDemAlways]

145. Spoiled? Hell yes. The average kid in my

neighborhood has a cell phone, an iPod, a laptop, plenty of money, and a strong sense of entitlement. My 9th grader brought home a high school yearbook the other day that had 4 color pages of pictures of the cars that sit in the student parking lot - beamers, audis, porsches - cars bought for the kids by the parents.

I substitute teach these kids and am routinely subjected to verbal abuse, and completely uncalled for rude and obnoxious behavior. The other day in a high school class I wrote the assignment the teacher left on the board and the kids out and out refused to do it telling me, "That's bullshit. The teacher didn't leave that. You're making it up." It was all I could do to keep from walking out, getting in my humble car, and going home. Screw it.

[janx]

101. I raised my kids that way.

Temper tantrums meant that we went home--even from the grocery store, and even if I had just started shopping. Kids learn fast when parents do that.

[JCMach1]

29. Cue the anti-child trolls

I have had my meals spoiled many more times by obnoxious and/or drunk adult patrons than by children.

How about an obnoxious, drunken idiot section for the restaurant?

[MonkeyFunk]

32. oh, stop with that nonsense

29 posts in, I don't see any antichildren posts.

Do you have anything to say regarding the OP?

[JCMach1]

61. Not the OP, but I have seen many threads like this quickly devolve

into- a Let me tell you how much I hate kids thread...

[terrya]

34. How about children who control their parents instead of vice versa?

I've seen it time and again...kids behaving inappropriately, while their parents just sit there.

When you go out to a restaurant, and you're taking your kids, said children should behave themselves. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask, do you?

[JCMach1]

62. I can't tell you the number of times in States we have gotten the evil eye

and more from supposedly 'adult' patrons when we bring our daughters to a restaurant.

Kids are not little robot adults!

Having said that... don't go to a family, or informal restaurant and expect the four seasons either!

Because the U.S. is so child unfriendly, I am not at all shocked that some parents might eventually say FARK it and turn their kids loose.

[Missy Vixen]

74. If you read the other posters

Multiple have already noted that when we're in a "family-friendly" restaurant, we suck it up and deal.

>Having said that... don't go to a family, or informal restaurant and expect the four seasons either!<

I expect a peaceful, pleasant evening when we're at a restaurant that obviously does not cater to children. If someone else's children are screaming and running around, those parents have just decided that their convenience outweighs the evening out of everyone else in the restaurant, and their kids will get that message, too. The restaurant management will deal with the "drunken idiots" you speak of. They're afraid of getting their asses sued by parents who don't have boundaries.

Julie

[Midlodemocrat]

130. We stopped going to our favorite restaurant after Church on Sundays

because this obnoxious family, extended family, mind you just took over the whole place with their ranting, yelling, misbehaving children. Kids on those wheelie things going hog wild.

The only member of that horrid family who behaves is the baby with Down Syndrome. Pretty telling, huh?

And, this is not a cheap restaurant. It's a Japanese place we love that routinely costs us over $100 for the five of us. We don't go on Sundays anymore though.

Even the restaurant owners hate these people. It's kind of funny to see the look they get on their faces as the big old SUVs start pulling in.

:hi: Julie!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

75. Well

if you're getting "the evil eye" far too often for your tastes, perhaps you should reexamine your children's behavior. Maybe your kids are really out of line.

Now, as I said in the OP, this isn't a family or informal restaurant. It's an upscale sushi place. But I have had children fuck up meals in VERY nice restaurants. As I said above, if I'm at a burger joint, no problem. I expect kids and families. But when it's someplace nice, if you wanna bring your kids, you should make sure they can keep their asses quietly in a chair for the duration.

[JCMach1]

135. My kids are absolutely fine... the EVIL EYE is coming from the fact 'I DARE'

to bring them!

My daughters are very well-behaved and have eaten at fine restaurants all over the world.

[mikeytherat]

64. In the druken/obnoxious adult category, I saw a new one just this weekend.

Dude took the "No Smoking" sign on his table, inverted it, and used it for an ashtray. Management did nothing.

mikey_the_rat

[redqueen]

70. Errr... why would you want to start that?

At least drunks have an excuse. Parents who won't raise their own children - well... can't blame that on the booze can ya?

[datasuspect]

31. i've never really seen this happen much

and i eat at lots of restaurants.

i rarely complain to managers either.

[BarenakedLady]

36. Hahahahaha

My first thought to your title was. "I wonder if complaining to the manager would actually shut my kids up?"

It's hard to control a kid that age though. My husband hates to be embarrassed and would take the kid out if he/she got too unruly. We often ate in shifts. We didn't go out much, but there were times when I was going to go crazy if I didn't get out of the house and eat some decent food prepared by someone other than me. There were certain ages that we almost never went out. It wasn't relaxing for ANYONE. Now that they are older, they sometimes talk loudly and we try to get them to keep their voices down. I've seen some death glares from other patrons. *shrug* But more often I get fond knowing smiles from older ladies and gentlemen.

Now when I see/hear parents dealing with unruly screaming children, I remember how hard it was to be there and cut them some slack. Oh shit have I become that older lady smiling??

[MonkeyFunk]

76. But there was no effort by the mother to deal with this child

she just carried on her conversation while the child screamed. She didn't pick her up and hold her, she didn't take her outside. She just let her scream.

[BarenakedLady]

85. I understand.

That would have irked me too.

[tigereye]

37. most of us simply take our screaming children for a walk

or leave with take-out. :shrug:

That's what I used to do with mine when he was a toddler. I once had to leave a nice outdoor rest. since my son started to fuss. I should have known better, but sometimes parents just want to eat out in a nice place (or at least try), for once.



This is why we mostly went to EatnPark and other child-friendly restaurants when my son was small.

[Lyric]

43. EatnPark!

We have an EatnPark here too. It's funny; when I read your post, the first thing I said was, "She must be from Pennsylvania," 'cause PA and WV are the only places I've ever seen EatNPark restaurants at.

Baked scrod...mmmmm. And their shredded pot roast sandwiches and fried zucchini strips are Yummy too. :hi:

[miss_american_pie]

44. And they have soy milk!

:hi:

[tigereye]

93. wow, you know that hell has frozen over when the Eat n Park has soy milK

:rofl:

:hi:

[tigereye]

88. yeah I live outside PIttsburgh...

they love kids at EatnPark and do everything to amuse em, they don't mind yelling and babbling, and they give em a cookie! And, they don't mind when the toddlers empty out the sugar packet holder!


:hi:


Have you had the Rosemary chicken? They have a test kitchen here, and it's easily as good as food I've had in upscale restaurants. And their pie -exp. blackberry, can't be beat.

[BlooInBloo]

157. omg - I used to practically LIVE at the squirrel hill E&P!

[tigereye]

158. I've been in that one quite a few times...

now I go to the one in the Waterfront...

[Phillycat]

39. We mostly do take-out.

That way we can eat in the comfort and peace of our clean, neat, child-free home. :) We also don't go to the movie theater much, because we prefer to watch movies at home. We have a 60-inch screen and surround sound so the quality is just as good, anyway. :shrug: Probably we can afford to have these things because we don't have children. :D These days when I see an out-of-control child in public, I'm so darned grateful that I don't have children that it doesn't bother me. Years past, it definitely got to me, temper-wise, but not anymore.

[noel711]

40. Who would take kids to a SUSHI place? Idiots...

Kids belong in McDonald's or Friendly's, where they can run around,
scream, and trash the joint. People almost expect that when they walk in the door.

But SUSHI screams: "Adult behavior required!"
Who would feed a baby sushi anyway?
My daughter wouldn't eat fish until ... well.. maybe tuna fish.
And she won't eat it now at 25 coz she's vegan.

Not to change the subject or anything, Monkey, but
how are you feeling? Did you get to the doctor?

[Fran Kubelik]

42. Sushi restaurants are great for kids.

First, you get to expose them to a different culture, you get to try to expand their palate beyond chicken nuggets...and there is plenty on the menu that a kid could enjoy. Edamame, chicken teriyaki or yakatori, vegetable tempura, california rolls...

But I have to stress that taking a child to any restaurant takes a lot of forethought and preparation. You need to time it right so they're not over tired. You need to bring things like crayons and paper to keep them entertained. You need to make the kid the focus of your attention so they know how important is is that they behave and be quiet. And you need an exit plan in case all your other planning still doesn't do the trick.

It's good for kids to have restaurant experiences at an early age. We want kids to grow up open to new things - it will make for a better society in general. We don't want them to grow up only knowing hamburgers and a variety of fried foods. But ALL the responsibility falls on the parent to make sure that it's a positive experience for everyone.

[Midlodemocrat]

55. My youngest has been eating sushi since she could walk.

Loves it. I brought my kids to restaurants from the time they were very young. They behaved perfectly or out we'd go. Now, they have wonderful manners and enjoy all types of cuisine.

[AlCzervik]

58. same here although it was fun to go to a nice restaurant with our daughter when she

was little and see the faces of some of the people, like "Oh no, she's going to be a pain in the ass!" and she never was, she had the whole napkin on the lap thing down by the time she was 4 and started ordering for herself by the time she was 5. This is also the child who accidentally had jellyfish with me, while i died slowly she said, yeah, i'd have that again. Just a note, jellyfish and pickled ginger might look the same but ginger doesn't jiggle. words to live by.

[RadiationTherapy]

140. My daughter too has eaten sushi since a very young age.

We have never left a restaurant due to her behavior; perfect or otherwise. I suppose if she had become disruptive we would have left.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. I was all ready to go to the urgent care clinic today

but last night, the congestion started breaking up, the fever is gone, and I'm feeling MUCH better.

Thanks for asking.

[kath]

107. Uh, NO - "Kids belong in McDonald's or Friendly's, where they can run

around, scream, and trash the joint".


NO, NO, a thousand times no. This kind of behavior is for the playground or back yard, but NEVER for an indoor public place. You don't run around or scream indoors (stores, restaurants, movie theaters, etc) where it can disturb other people. There is such a thing as your "inside voice". Trash goes in the trashcan. If you're too loud or don't stay in your seat, you get taken out to the car. We raised our kids this way, and other parents are fully capable of doing the same, but are too freakin' lazy or selfish to do so.
Granted, they were allowed to be a bit louder in fast food places than in nice restaurants, and were taught that you speak ONLY in a soft whisper (if AT ALL) in movie theaters. But there needs to be a standard as to appropriate behavior in indoor public places.

I remember in a restaurant once when our girls were talking a bit too loudly I said to them: "see that man and woman sitting behind us? They came out to this restaurant so that they could talk and have a nice time. If you're being too loud, that ruins their nice evening. You need to talk in a quiet voice." I also remember pointing out that a kid running around in the aisles could be very dangerous to a waitperson carrying a large tray of food. And if we weren't SURE that a restaurant provided crayons, etc. we brought plenty of things of our own to keep the girls occupied until the food arrived.


Yeah, a lot of our early restaurant meals were interrupted by one parent being out in the car with a fussy baby or unruly preschooler. But it was well worth it, since they learned fairly quickly what appropriate behavior was. It's a parent's freakin' JOB to teach these things.

[janx]

113. I agree with you, but I didn't take them for a walk or to the car.

I took them HOME. ;-)

[NJmaverick]

41. I frequently dine with a lady friend and she is not a fan of kids

If we are being seated near small kids, she will often ask to be seated some where else. More often than not, she gets her wish. That way we enjoy a quiet meal and those dining with kids are not really bothering anyone.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. Only if it is at Olive Garden and I had to walk past 10 panhandlers to get in the door.

And the lady at the next table is breastfeeding while smoking and petting her pit bull.

[guitar man]

46. yes, quite often

I've complained about the screaming kids repeatedly at one of my favorite places to eat. Finally, he told me if I didn't like it, I could go somewhere besides Chuck E Cheese to get my pizza. :P

[Amerigo Vespucci]

47. I walked out of the Cardinal Coffee Shop in San Jose because of screaming kids

I went in there when the place was approximately 1/4 full. The waitress seated me near the front door, a couple of booths back. In the booth next to mine was a mom and her friend / sister / significant other (take your pick), and three kids who were all around the "terrible twos" age.

She's set up a mini-daycare center at the edge of her booth and the kids had obviously been fed some sugar. They were running around in circles in the aisle and making enough noise for ten kids.

The waitress was 100% into the fun and games (maybe she was a relative).

I sat there for a few minutes, looking over the menu, and thought "do I really feel like putting up with this shit today?" I could have asked to be moved to a different booth, but it would have only taken the noise level down a notch.

So when the waitress came to take my order, I calmly looked at the menu, looked at the kids, looked at her, and said "I've changed my mind. Thanks anyway" and left.

And yeah, I know this is a "you kids get off of my lawn NOW" story, but that's OK.

:evilgrin:

[Coyote_Bandit]

48. Oh hell yes

I have much less tolerance for such conduct in a pricey higher end establishment than in a place that is more likely to be considered a family restaurant.

First I will ask the parents to control their children. If that doesn't work then I will ask for the manager to come to my table. I figure the manager really needs to observe little Damien. If the parents have made no effort to control the child or if they were rude to me then I may (or may not) well include some language - just loud enough to be heard by the offenders - that is definitely not child friendly. If the manager doesn't acknowledge the problem after I leave I will contact the company that employs him to detail what transpired. I won't return unless the food, prices, service, etc. otherwise warrant it. And if the experience repeats itself I will not ever again return. A single occurrence might be an anomaly. A repeat performance is an indicator of a pattern of conduct.

Parents who offend should not be surprised to be treated rudely. Parents who place a child in an adult situation should not be surprised if the child is exposed to adult situations and adult conduct. Managers who don't acknowledge and try to resolve problems should not be surprised if someone complains to their boss.

[AngryAmish]

49. When you go to a restuarant at that price point you can't expect much

Family restuarants are just that -- family restuarants. While I expect parents to control their children, I don't go to Chuck E. Cheese expecting an intimate meal.

Also, dine later when the kids are in bed. Around here anything before 7 pm is family and elderly time it seems.

[Fran Kubelik]

50. Blah

I wish all parents would take responsibility for their kids when they take them out. I'm a parent who would never leave a kid screaming in a restaurant, high end or otherwise.

Yesterday my son and I went to a local ice cream place. He's six and very well behaved. There was another kid around his age there who was obviously doing everything she could to get her mom's attention (mom was on the cell, completely ignoring her), including swatting a dog with a stick. My kid was so horrified by this girl's behavior that he actually turned around so he couldn't see her. We decided to just leaved and eat our cones while we walked back to the car. Then we talked about why what we saw really wasn't cool, and what a kid should do if (s)he needs mom's attention.

It takes a whole lot of attention and time to raise a decent human being. I wish more people were invested in the process. I am really sorry you have to cross paths with the ones who aren't.

[redwitch]

51. You should have gone to Olive Garden.

:shrug:

[Iggo]

59. Here's the thing.

"...this is also a place where people OFTEN bring young kids."

"...TOO MANY TIMES NOW, our meal has been ruined by being sat next to screaming kids."


You knew where you were eating. You ain't got a leg to stand on.

[MonkeyFunk]

80. so now I have to presume

that upscale sushi places, where a meal costs $35+/person, is now a "family restaurant"?

[Iggo]

84. You have to assume it...

...because you've been there many times and it has proved to be true by your own observation.

[kwassa]

60. "Can't you control your child?"

I'd say that to the parent. I've done it.

[Throd]

63. My youngest child is 8 months old. I won't take her to any place classier than Denny's.

It isn't fair to other patrons and I want to enjoy my meal too.

Sometimes children just wig out and there isn't anything you can do except remove them from the room. I'm not going to drop $70.00 on a sushi meal and spend half my time in the parking lot calming a distressed baby. I am resigned to family dining at Carl's Jr. with a play area for the next two years.

[My Good Babushka]

154. I hear you, Throd.

Ours are 1 and 4 so every meal is interrupted with screaming at some point.

[redqueen]

65. Nope. I just thought hateful thoughts about the idiotic parents.

And continued on with my meal. 5 kids in my family... I'm used to screaming. :)


I did tip my waiter a 20 though for going over and trying to do the parents' job for them and calming the unruly child down. Unasked. Now that is service.

[av8rdave]

67. Some parents get so used to their loud children that it's just "white noise" to them...

what a shame they have to be rude enough to assume it's not bothering anyone else.

[El Fuego]

71. Why call the manager, it's much more fun to just smack the kids around.

Oh wait, that's just my fantasy.

[CC]

73. My SO will get up, go over to the child,

squat down so his face is level with the child and firmly tell the child he best behave because if no one else will make him/her behave then he will. Usually this scares the child quiet for a bit and the parents hear him. He thens turns to the parents, smiles and says "See it only takes a calm firm voice and direction." Usually he can get a smile out of the kid and will keep eye contact with them. If the child still doesn't behave usually the parents are afraid he will do something and leave. He actually likes kids but will not tolerate rudeness from them in a good restaurant. Now family places he says is a different story. You are warned before going in.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. "if no one else will make him/her behave then he will"

That is a dangerous thing to say, in this day and age, with witnesses around. It could be taken as verbal abuse...and, if he removed him from the restaurant (one way of dealing with it) he would be charged with kidnapping. What would your significant other do if the talking to backfired?

[CC]

115. He never touches the child

and doesn't talk mean, just quiet and firm. He would never take someone else's child out somewhere or hurt them. Hell he never hurt his own kids and god forbid he see someone else hurt a child. But they nor their parents know that but he does it kindly is the best way I can describe. And if they behave after he smiles at them and even makes funny faces at them. The kids seem to love him, the parents are embarrassed and tell the kids to behave or do what they should of been doing. I guess it is hard to type the tone and how it comes across. Our problem is usually that kids want to come home with us.:) Maybe it is because we both like kids and see them as people, so when we talk to them they give us not only respect (since we give it to them) but their trust.:shrug: He is also the one that people give their crying babies to at Little League games etc. because they snuggled up on him and fell a sleep. I can't count how many games we took our son to and some mom or dad said thank god you are here and handed him a screaming baby/toddler.

[Missy Vixen]

148. My husband has the "baby whisperer" thing, too

>He is also the one that people give their crying babies to at Little League games etc. because they snuggled up on him and fell a sleep.<

One of our neighbors has four kids. When her youngest was a newborn, she'd fall asleep every time her mother put her in my husband's arms. It was like magic! We heard a knock at the front door one afternoon a few years ago, and he answered the door to find a frazzled Mom and a crying baby. She said, "Will you please hold her for a few minutes?" The baby's dad was on a lengthy business trip, and she must have hit the wall between baby and the other three kids.

The baby fell asleep only moments after Mom handed her to DH, and we told her we'd bring her back when her nap was done. ;-) I still tease him about his many admirers...

Julie

[RadiationTherapy]

123. Yeah. Right. Good idea. He should do that as often as possible. nt

[huskerlaw]

77. You should have called the Supernanny

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

79. You must have missed MY award-winning rant...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7807575&mesg_id=7807575

Not only did we complain to the manager, but I told the people at the table exactly what I thought about them...

[RadiationTherapy]

126. I think you should always confront the parents and the restaurant management in these scenarios.

And don't hold back. REALLY get in their faces about it. YOU are correct! YOU paid a lot for your meal!

[RadiationTherapy]

86. Baaaahhaahaha. No. I am not a whiner.

And I do not discriminate based on age the people I do not complain about.

Laughing again. "Buut I paid a lot for my meeeaaaallll!" hahahaaaaaa!

[MonkeyFunk]

98. You think objecting to a screaming child

is age discrimination?

What an idiotic notion.

[RadiationTherapy]

108. I am not going to go into the OBVIOUS tit for tat.

But there are a LOT of people in a LOT of different categories that I find irritating, distrubing and infuriating. I flow with it and move on my way.

It is "age discrimination" because you are not singling out the behavior, you are singling out a specific age group that "offends" you more than other age groups who have the capacity to behave the same way.

[janx]

109. They have the capacity to,

but they've been taught not to. I didn't see this as a matter of age discrimination.

[RadiationTherapy]

111. You have not ever had to endure loud adults? Teens? nt

[janx]

112. Sure I have!

But the OP doesn't seem to be accusing all small children of such behavior.

[RadiationTherapy]

114. No, but he narrows a common behavior to a select group.

I am not attached to the term 'age discrimination' if that's the only point you have to make...

[MonkeyFunk]

117. Screaming is common behavior

for all age groups?

How absurd. Lemme guess - you let your kids scream in restaurants.

[RadiationTherapy]

122. Unacceptable noise levels and inappropriate conversations are common.

Look, I can tell you just wanted to whine and be coddled with consoling, supportive messages. I regret getting involved. In the future you should absolutely confront the parents and tell the manager. Life is much easier when you let everyone know how you feel from moment to moment. You definitely need to be more vocal about this issue.

Sorry I contradicted you to begin with.

[MonkeyFunk]

127. I have no desire to be coddled

I'm just disagreeing with your ridiculous assertions.

I never said all children do this. I even said upthread that most kids I see in restaurants behave nicely.

YOu made the asinine assertion that I was only objecting to people screaming in restaurants if they were children. You started the obnoxious behavior by mocking me in your first post, claiming that I was crying about the money that was spent. You jumped in here, acting like a prick, and you got called on it.

[RadiationTherapy]

134. I have never had a meal "ruined" by anyone but me.

Your entire op is whiny anti-social pap. My being a prick is beside the point. I think it is funny to have one's meal "ruined" by anything but bad cooking or bad service. The ironic thing is, I will have many more contented meals in my life than you will just because our expectations differ. Specifically, you are easier to disappoint.

[MonkeyFunk]

149. Well

I take it you're used to screaming children, and can enjoy a meal while one shrieks a few feet away from you.

But you shouldn't expect other people to have the same tolerance for your brats.

[RadiationTherapy]

151. How many times do I have to tell you? It is my expectations that differ, not my tolerance.

I am not "used to" screaming children, nor do I "have" any "brats". I have a daughter who is 6 and 9/12.

I will continue to flow through life; it seems you will continue to contend with it. Exhausting.

[janx]

152. The thing is...

I've raised three children, and I never, ever expected anyone to have to put up with that (except for me on occasion, since I was their mom). How can anyone who loves their children raise them to be so contemptible? :shrug:

I also have a hard time with so-called adults who "hate kids." That's an awful lot of humanity to hate, n'est-ce pas?

[janx]

118. He seems to be narrowing it down to a select group of

parents who allow their kids to behave inappropriately in a restaurant. :shrug: And if their kids grow up thinking that it's OK to behave that way in a restaurant, guess what they become? ;-)

[RadiationTherapy]

121. It's whining regardless of details, but I should not have gotten involved. I concede. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

116. Sorry

it's an idiotic notion.

I assure you if a 40 year old were screaming at the next table, I'd be just as annoyed. :eyes:

[RadiationTherapy]

119. Um. Ok. Apology accepted? You communicate weirdly.

Why not just say 'person' screaming. Why children?

Whatever. I have to take my own advice and just not give a shit about people who whine about such inane things.

Sorry I cared for a moment.

[MonkeyFunk]

128. you didn't "care"

you just wanted to jump in here insult me with your entirely nonsensical argument, and you got called on how idiotic it was. Don't act like an abused victim here - you started the nonsense.

[RadiationTherapy]

139. I did care; I laughed and everything! I called you a whiner!

All in attempts to get you to lighten up and enjoy what you have and not what you lack. I suppose I have failed as a zen teacher. I apologize.

[terrya]

138. Bullshit.

If my partner and I went to a restaurant and plopped down $70 - $80 for a meal, a nice, ADULT restaurant, you bet I'd be pissed if we had to put up with some screaming children.

I imagine the city where MonkeyFunk lives has some children friendly restaurants. Why don't parents take their families there? Not having been there, nevertheless that sushi place MonkeyFunk and his partner went to was NOT one of those places.

[RadiationTherapy]

142. Again with the expectations. I just cannot relate. I do not go to public places

for privacy or quiet. Regardless of the price.

Screaming children in my swinger's club would definitely irritate me though.

[janx]

144. I disagree that young families should have to be relegated

to McDonald's, etc., all the time. Parents need to spend more time teaching their kids how to behave in given situations. If the kids won't behave, then the parents need to take them home. As I wrote down thread, kids learn fast that way.

[LisaM]

90. My sister and I practically grew up in restaurants

But we were quiet and good. We were quiet anyway, but if you gave us drawing materials, we would entertain ourselves for hours.

I do not understand 1) why the children scream so much; and 2) why their parents don't care. I see screaming children everywhere now, including church and the grocery store. The parents are clueless. I am no stranger to childcare myself, having worked in a daycare for years, and I know that there's only a limited number of things that cause legitimate yowls in a kid - pain, being too hot, being too cold, being sick, or being hungry (or perhaps having something grabbed away by another kid). Those can all be quickly addressed by any parent who isn't too stupid to breed in the first place.

Anything else - remove the child. Not to a different part of the restaurant. Take the child OUT. I say this as someone who loves little kids and loves being around them. They don't run the show and they need to learn it early on.

[Phillycat]

97. Also add to your list, being tired.

Which I think is causing the howls a lot of the time these days. Most of these kids need a nap...and parents who are willing to inconvenience themselves to insure the kid GETS that nap.

[LisaM]

100. Didn't I put that on the list? Ooops!

Yes, I agree. Kids these days are exhausted and running on empty. Definitely belongs on the list.

[janx]

104. There are some old fashioned notions that got chucked during

the last generation. Suddenly, it wasn't hip to keep your child on a schedule, especially a sleep schedule. A very wise woman who had five children (two of whom were twins) gave me some of the best advice I ever received about 26 years ago: bed time is bed time. At around three months of age, I put my first child on a regular schedule that way. She told me that when I first put him to bed at his BED TIME, he would cry and cry. She told me to watch the clock. He might even cry for half an hour or more. But the second night I put him in bed at his BED TIME, she said, he wouldn't cry as long, and the third time I did it, she said, he would cry very little if at all.

She was right! It was really tough to do, especially that first night, but it worked with him and the two kids that followed.

Nap time works the same way, but the child usually doesn't put up as much of a fuss at nap time.

A lot of other parents I encountered (and still do) are ruled by their kids. The kids have no nap times and no bed times. It wasn't hip to have nap times and bed times.

[TK421]

91. No, I'm not sure management can do anything about that

:shrug: but I feel your pain...I've been in that situation many times, and almost lost it completely

[distantearlywarning]

99. I'm totally on the side of the OP with this one.

I am sick to death of all of the screaming children and their oblivious parents. Like others in this thread, if I behaved like that as a child, I would have been removed from the public place immediately. Apparently that's no longer the social norm these days. There are literally places I no longer go because I cannot deal with so many badly behaved kids (including the theatre - and if Hollywood wants to know why its movies no longer make any money, perhaps they should look at changing social norms about children and theatre rudeness).

Last month we went out for dinner and the hostess tried to seat us next to a screaming-child-oblivious-parents family. I took one look at that, and asked her, loud enough for the parents to hear, if we could be seated on the other side of the restaurant. She was very nice and understanding, and when she took us over to a second table, she smiled and said, "I thought that might be a problem for you!" Needless to say, we had a very pleasant dinner with only the faint sounds of screaming wafting over to our side of the restaurant. I felt sorry for the other diners over there who didn't have the guts to speak up.

[Writer]

110. Wow. Six months ago this thread would have gone in a much different direction.

[jobycom]

120. Nah, usually I just chuckle at the kids and feel sympathy for the parents.

I save my complaints for bad service or bad food or smokers when I venture out of civilization to places that allow smoking in public. Or nose blowers. Even then, I usually don't complain, I just don't go back. I have a higher tolerance for screaming kids than for disgusting adults, I guess.

I saw a manager throw a mother out of a restaurant once because her kid was screaming. I never went back there, either.

I blame bad parents, not restaurant management, for bad parenting (when it is bad parenting). Seating availability is not always easy to control. Most restaurants I've seen try to seat kids in one area and non-kid patrons in another, but restaurants don't always fill up in a convenient order to do that.

Different people have different triggers.

[LynneSin]

125. Dear Abby wrote about this just the other day

She suggests that you complain to the manager and insist on another seat within the restaurant provide of course you aren't happening to be dining at Chucky Cheese or some other kid oriented place.

[KansDem]

132. I might have tried asking to be reseated further away...

Last weekend, we went very early, the place had plenty of seats, but they sat us next to a little girl in a high chair - maybe 18 - 20 months. She was fine for awhile. Right until our food arrived.

But then, I'm a real stickler about being seated near anyone when I eat and will always ask to be seated elsewhere if the situation looks dicey...

[DarkTirade]

146. Only when it's truly, completely and utterly disruptive.

Like when the screams are painfully loud, or if the child is running around and misbehaving or throwing food or something like that.

The only time I can recall it going that far was back right before I left for college, my parents and my little sister and I went out to dinner. There was one other family in our section, and they had a little boy who was just literally running around, out of control. I don't think he was at the table for more than 30 seconds at a time the entire night. I ignored it up until a point... but when he thought it would be funny to try and hide around a corner and stick his foot out when he saw me walking that way, that was when I drew the line. Granted, I could SEE him there and I went the other way. But still. This kid was obviously incapable of acting properly, let alone safely, in public without supervision. And the parents just weren't supervising.

[Fox Mulder]

155. Absolutely.

If the manager doesn't do anything about it, then I won't eat there anymore.

[bigwillq]

156. I never have but

I guess if they annoyed me enough I would complain.

I never had issues though with yelling out, well talking loudly enough, by saying "Shut that baby up" or "go home"

Sometimes I get some stares.

[ZombieHorde]

159. No, I don't.

[Xipe Totec]

160. I educated my kids to behave in public places

I used the Olive Garden as a training ground.

[harmonicon]

161. no

I never complain at restaurants. I just don't go back. In fact, I hate eating out and think of it as a sort of punishment that's best avoided at all costs. After you'd had meals ruined before, you just shouldn't have gone back. There are lots of things about the UK that drive me crazy, but one thing that's good is that lots of restaurants, especially ones that have a bar, don't allow children in after 5 o'clock or so.