GLBT DUers & Heteros who care: please see thread

[Bertha Venation]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=113&topic_id=6884

Help me hash this out; I can't end this day feeling this way:

Has hatred become more powerful than love in the debate over our RIGHT to marry?

[NightTrain]

1. Shouting an obscenity at a couple during their wedding ceremony...

...just because they happen to belong to the same gender. Wonderful. :grr: :nuke:

[afraid_of_the_dark]

2. There's a lot of different factors involved here...

A major one is if you were raised with religious beliefs that proscribe homosexuality. Unfortunately, these individuals speak out of both sides of their mouths: treat others as you would like to be treated, but hate those who prefer mates of the same gender. I don't know about others, but growing up in a strict Christian/Catholic home didn't exactly permit positive views of GLBT's. (But thankfully, deprogramming is possible!)

Two, you have fanatics out there (generally acting on some "mission from God") who will do anything to prevent their world from becoming "sinful," like bombing abortion clinics or throwing bottles at gay couples who are trying to get married like any other American couple.

So, now we have all of these negatives, and it really puts a nice big rain cloud over something so beautiful as two people pledging their love for one another. But the thing is that the reason you see all of this hate is because it makes better news than those showing their support for these brave pioneers. You would be surprised at how many people see this as being a move in the right direction (as far as human rights are concerned), but are afraid to say anything for fear of persecution. Those who feel able to say positive things aren't causing a big ruckus, and aren't making the news. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that just because you only see the "hate" doesn't mean that "love" isn't there.

This is a very important time, similar to what the Civil Rights Movement did for the African-American community. That wasn't without all of the ugliness either, but it really turned out to be a wonderful (and much more universally accepted) thing. I hope that the civil disobedience going on in SF is the energizing force, and that the "right" to marry will truly become a "right" - not a privilege.

[Bertha Venation]

20. "hate makes better news" -- indeed

because so many people are drawn more to the repulsive than to the beautiful. That's pathetic.

"I hope that the civil disobedience going on in SF is the energizing force, and that the "right" to marry will truly become a "right" - not a privilege." -- Amen!!

[lovedems]

3. I wish I could snap my fingers and make the haters go away.

I, for one, was VERY moved when I saw the smiles and the pure happiness of those couples who were getting married and felt like their love and committment to one another was being validated. I am at a total and complete loss as to why there are people out there who wish to instill their particular brand of hatred on such a joyous occassion.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The arguments that the bigots make embarrass me. I find it more offensive that the conservatives are making me feel like my marriage vows would somehow mean less if gay and lesbian marriages were "allowed". THAT is offensive to me.

Maybe hatred always gets the leg up, but love always prevails in the end. Hatred is what starts war, love is where we find peace.

[Bertha Venation]

19. "love is where we find peace"

Hear, hear! :bounce:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

4. Absolutely horrible.

*hugs*

[Bertha Venation]

18. ty, maggie

:hug:

[Whitacre D_WI]

5. There have always been bastards in this world...

...and there always will be.

I agree with one poster in the other thread -- it's getting better. With each day, our society comes closer to affirming the lives and loves of GLBT people. No, we're not there yet, we're still a long way off (sometimes it seems like we are farther away then we are); but we are approaching where we should be.

Slavery was ended. Women got the vote. People of different races were allowed to marry. I honestly believe that we will eventually see an America where people who love people of the same sex will be truly equal in the eyes of the law (and the majority).

Until then, it's up to us to stand up for what's right.

[Bertha Venation]

17. slavery - women & the vote - anti-miscegenation laws:

Thank you for the perspective, Whitacre.

[thom1102]

6. To me, this is no different than what happened at Matt Shepard's Funeral..

A few people who have extreme views trying to make their point at the expense of someone else. In the Shepard case, it was at the expense of a family's grief, and in this case it is an attempt to "rain on their parade."

There will always be people who think that we are an abomination. We will never be able to turn the hearts and minds of everyone on this issue. Just look at the struggle of the African American community: they've been at it for centuries and bigotry and hatred towards them is still rampant. We as a community are still in the infancy of our struggle for equal rights and protections, but we have acheived so much in such a short period of time we run the risk of being disheartened when things take longer than we would like to acheive. We will have some setbacks, and the religious right will win a few rounds themselves and they may even win the marriage ammendment fight, but we have history on our side, and our cause is just, so in the end, we will win the war. Ammendments have been overturned, and as more people realize that we are their friends, family, neighbors, teachers, Police officers, politicians, co-workers, bosses, etc the more people will realize that we are just like them in every way that counts.

The journey isn't easy: they don't call movements like ours "struggles" for nothing. But one thing I know is certain, in the end, we will prevail, because we are right. And all the hatred in the world can't stand against that.

Chin up, Bertha! And keep your eye on the prize.
Yours in solidarity,
Thom

[Bertha Venation]

16. "we are right and all the hatred in the world can't stand against that"

Amen! TY, Thom.

[hlthe2b]

7. It is going to take time, my friend.....

Opinions, no matter how entrenched DO change over time. Look at the strides made in race relations (no matter how incomplete the progress).

I'm not going to patronize you by simply saying "patience," but it is true that the entire issue came to a rather sudden head. While gay rights and same sex marriage is something that perhaps should have been part of the public discourse for years, the fact is that the MA opinion brought it to a head and had people talking about an issue that many had never given much thought to in the past. The moderates in our society will bring along many of the minority who are not yet thinking for themselves, but only spewing that of a few more vocal in their circle.

Perhaps some perspective will help. While it is deplorable that idiots would spew their hatred at a wedding, these same idiots would spew hateful comments at many others in society that they feel free to attack, e.g., the morbidly obese, perhaps certain immigrants, perhaps dark skinned individuals and African Americans, assertive professional women they tag as "feminazis...." I don't kow if it helps to realize that gays and lesbians are not their only hateful focus, but, it does tend to put these idiots into some perspective.

[Bertha Venation]

15. "these same idiots"

Actually, that does help. I'm a triple threat for people like this. I'm obese, I'm gay, and I wear my hair very short. My short hair has elicited ignorant comments about how lesbians are lesbians because they wanna be men. And of course, anyone can imagine what kind of shit the obese get.

So if I keep in focus not the fact that they hate gay people but that they hate anyone who isn't just like them, that helps. A little. :)

[supernova]

8. It takes time

inch by inch, person by person, sometimes the pace of change seems not only glacial, but nonexistent. Remember, some of us used to think slavery was a good way to do business. No longer.

The person who threw the water bottle did not drown out all the well-wishers. Part of it is what you choose to remember from that day. Don't let that one person rob you of what is a good day. Otherwise, they win. The naysayers want to rob you of joy, of love, and of celebration.

Do it anyway.

The only answer to hate is love and nonviolent change. I know that sounds soporific. But it is true that the only lasting changes that have come about in our lives have come from the nonviolent end. King, Gandhi, Mandela.

Change happens, but we can't always see it.

[Bertha Venation]

13. I'll try not to let 'em rob me again, supernova

thank you

and it's not so soporific -- it's just hard to see sometimes.

[proud patriot]

9. Crispies are flocking to SF from around the country

Telling SF citizens that "God is going to send them to Hell"

We Straight Bay Area DUers should counter this somehow alongside
our Gay Lesbian and Tansgender Brothers and Sisters .

I have never understood the blind hatred .

I stand in unity with You !

Solidarity !

[Bertha Venation]

14. ty, patriot

God, if I thought I've been homesick for CA in the last 3 1/2 years, it's nothing to how I've felt since the marriages began. :cry:

[Bertha Venation]

10. thanks to everyone for the support, solidarity, hugs, etc

I know I'm not the only DUer who is feeling the current events this way. But I think I'm the only one who is using the boards as therapy -- since my own therapist is intractable. Can you believe she refused to follow me when I moved from CA to MD? :shrug:

:eyes: at self. Sometimes I feel I should just suck it up, but 13 years of therapy taught me never to hold anything in.

All of your posts have been great. Sorry I'm not replying individually. I love this place.
:loveya: :grouphug:

[fudge stripe cookays]

11. Gotta true story for ya, Bert...

My mother (71) was always raised strict Catholic and also strict racist. I grew up using words I'm ashamed of, and it wasn't until I went to college that I realized how wrong it was.

About a decade or so ago, I just told my mom I would walk out of the room anytime she used the "N" word. A little at a time, I showed her how wrong it was-- how many blacks she knew that were decent, wonderful human beings, and she had a change of heart. She hasn't used the word since.

She's always called gays "fags" or "homosexuals" with this face that looked like she was tasting something bad. But, several months ago, I got her interested in the Dean campaign, and she started meeting all types of interesting people, gay and otherwise.

When we talked on the phone last night, I mentioned the effort to send anyonymous flowers to gay couples in San Francisco, and gave her more of the background about Gavin's coolness, and told her about the happiness on these poeple's faces. She even chuckled at one point at something funny.

I had prefaced my conversation with, "I know you really can't stand gays, but...."

She floored me when she said, "You know, I've just decided that it's none of my business. I mean, who am I to tell them what they can or can't do? They sound like they're happy."

Let Love Rule, Ladies and Gentleman.

I know sometimes it gets discouraging, but if each 1 of us works on 1 other person that way, we can really start turning this tide.

Keep the faith, honey!
FSC

[Bertha Venation]

12. Cookays, THANK YOU!

:bounce: You just made my freakin' day -- and I've only been awake for half an hour. This is going to keep me up the rest of the day.

Last week southerngirlwriter called me with a similar story about her mother.

I have a friend who works in the Bush administration, is a personal friend of W's, and a fundy to boot. Not so sure how "fundy" he is anymore, though; he recently left the place we both worked and told me, "You opened my eyes" to how gay people are no different from anyone else.

One person at a time, baby, one on one. Damn right, FSC, that's the way we're gonna do it.
Thank you for making my day. :yourock:

[alwynsw]

21. Mornin', Bertha

You oughta know my position by now. If not, let's just suffice it to say that I'm hitting a double whammy here in KY. Yep. You're reading the words of the straight co-founder of the newest Pink Pistols chapter (Louisville, KY). Need I say more?

[Bertha Venation]

22. Sweetie, I've known your position

for a long time. :toast:

[alwynsw]

23. I just read my own post.

It came out kinda crappy, but thankfully, you know 'zackly what I meant. Thanks for not thinking me an ass for the way it came out. (pun intended)