My Daughter has an UNKNOWN Virus

[JCMach1]

My wife (CLYRC) and I are very worried about our youngest daughter she is in the hospital. In fact, I am only at home because our oldest daughter also has to be taken care of...

Our 5 year old has come down with some very scary symptoms over the past couple of days...

It started as what looked like just an irritated rash around her lips. It had spread a little yesterday and we kept her on bed rest all day thinking that a recent exposure to the Chickenpox might be to blame.

Today, it looks like she has had acid poured on parts of her body with definite blisters and peeling skin in some areas. She is in extreme pain from it as well. She now, also, has developed a low-grade fever.

She had the vaccine and it's definitely not chicken pox or shingles.

Stuck here, I have been pouring through medical material in hopes of seeing something similar.

The only other possible piece to the puzzle is that she and a few of her friends found a dead rat about 10 days ago. She says she didn't touch it, but an older boy picked it up by the tail and buried it.

Could it be monkeypox?

If you could send some good karma our way... we need it right about now...

I am very scared, she has never been in the hospital before!

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. Oh JCMach you have them all....My thoughts go with you. Your

poor little baby. Please update us as soon as possible. I will be worrying and hoping for the best.

Hugs,Laura

[mouse7]

2. Get her to the hospital.

Don't mess around. Let the pros figure it out.

As a matter of fact, take her to the closest medical school hospital emergency room. Better interns, Better residents. Better pathology departments.

[JCMach1]

9. We are in the UAE...

that makes things worrisome as well...

We have had good basic care since we have been here, but we have not had to utilize a hospital or anything major.

[Dirty Hippie]

3. I think you should take her to the emergency room

I'm no medical expert but raised two kids. Better safe than sorry.

Good Luck.

[JCMach1]

6. Sorry I didn't clarify... she is in the Hospital

I just came home to put my 8 year old to bed.

[SaddenedDem]

4. Karma, prayers, pleadings to a higher being

Anything I can think of is coming your way!!!

Please keep us posted as you can. You are in our hearts, our thoughts and our prayers.

[madfloridian]

5. Much karma your way right now! Keep us posted.

Jerald, please stay in close touch about this. Best to Crystal as well.
Prayers going up.

[proud patriot]

7. sending positive vibes

:hug:

[Dirty Hippie]

8. Keep on researching

You need to stay proactive. Doctors do not know everything. If you suspect something, pressure the docs to test for it.

[Dirty Hippie]

10. BTW

Most teaching hospitals (and others?) have medical libraries with access to research not available to the public. I'm talking about on the web. Ask if there is a library. If so go there to do your research.

We helped our son this way.

[Columbia]

11. Hmm...

"It started as what looked like just an irritated rash around her lips. It had spread a little yesterday and we kept her on bed rest all day thinking that a recent exposure to the Chickenpox might be to blame."

This sounds like it could be an infection or allergic reaction to something she ingested. This could be a food she ate or perhaps something she touched that was diseased and then touched her mouth.

"She had the vaccine and it's definitely not chicken pox or shingles."

Vaccines are not 100% effective, it is known that there are always cases of patients becoming infected with a disease that they were previously inoculated against.

Sending prayers to your daughter and family.

[JCMach1]

12. We took her to the emergency room this morning

and the Dr. decided to treat it as severe allergic reaction and gave medication. We medicated her of course and she got progressively worse as the day wore on.

There were no known environmental factors for such an allergic reaction. Plus, she has never been allergic to ANYTHING.

She doesn't even get seasonal allergies.

We took her into the hospital late Saturday afternoon our time and they admitted her.

Even worse to finding out anything positive soon... It's NEW YEAR's Day here... :(

[Columbia]

18. I see

"Dr. decided to treat it as severe allergic reaction and gave medication. We medicated her of course and she got progressively worse as the day wore on."

It's highly probable she could have had a secondary allergic reaction to the medication. Hopefully they took her off those meds and gave her something else. Do you know what she was given?

"Plus, she has never been allergic to ANYTHING."

Allergies tend to develop as grow older so it is still a possibility.

Hope she gets well soon.

[Flaxbee]

20. Sometimes, too, vaccines can "clash" with

previously acquired immunities and cause allergic reactions/ anaphylactic shock.

Which vaccine did she have, and when? Had she been exposed to chickenpox before she got the vaccine (if that's what she received)?

[RainDog]

13. my thoughts are with you and yours

My prayers are going out to your daughter for her complete recovery soon.

I heard yesterday that there is apparently some research into the Black Death plague, and a book is coming out which talks about the plague coming from a virus, not the presumed source.

since this was spread by rats, perhaps there is a connection?

I don't remember the author, but the book is titled The Black Death and it will be published by Wiley, I think.

I'll google to see if I can find any info about it.

maybe others on this list can also think of more common remedies, in conjunction with modern medicine, which can help someone shore up her immune system, too.

anything that helps...

offhand, I think of Vit. C, coenzyme q-10, as adjuncts to medicinal treatment.

[Lizz612]

33. Plague spread by fleas on rats.

The plague usually showed up as black spots (hence black death) and those spots appeared in hairy areas of the body where the fleas took up residence.

ps. I'm just a student, I want to be a doctor but I am not yet one, my avatar is hopeful thinking.

[RainDog]

55. new research questions old assumptions

...I'm not even a student, but I had read about this earlier...

good luck with your studies, btw.

I also read that some British scientists tested some of the victims of the black plague that they disinterred and found that very few of them actually had the bubonic plague dna present.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/blackdeath_010730.html

History books have long taught the Black Death, which wiped out a quarter of Europe's population in the Middle Ages, was caused by bubonic plague, spread by infected fleas that lived on black rats. But new research in England suggests the killer was actually an Ebola-like virus transmitted directly from person to person.

The Black Death killed some 25 million Europeans in a devastating outbreak between 1347 and 1352, and then reappeared periodically for more than 300 years. Scholars had thought flea-infested rats living on ships brought the disease from China to Italy and then the rest of the continent.

But researchers Christopher Duncan and Susan Scott of the University of Liverpool say that the flea-borne bubonic plague could not have torn across Europe the way the Black Death did.

"If you look at the way it spreads, it was spreading at a rate of around 30 miles in two to three days," says Duncan. "Bubonic plague moves at a pace of around 100 yards a year."

[ott]

14. Sounds like it could be a strain of HerpesVirus....

Today, it looks like she has had acid poured on parts of her body with definite blisters and peeling skin in some areas. She is in extreme pain from it as well. She now, also, has developed a low-grade fever.

... Which chickenpox and shingles are both strains. And which, can both pop up at any time, if the immune system takes a hit or whatever, you never get rid of the virus once you've gotten it. The chicken pox vaccine does wear off too, so it is a possibility.

[seventhson]

15. Sounds like a possible chemical or radiation exposure to me.

I worked for a major nuke corp evaluating medical claims breifly.

You need to check the area where she was playing. Is it "landfilled" -- one nuke plant in New England used fill from a nuke plant to build a little league field - and there was radionucleides discovered in it.

Just one batch touched and then on the hands in dirt or waste metals, etc. might do it - from either cemicals, pesticides or nuke waste matter.

You also need to find the kids who were with her and expecially the kid who found the rat. Maybe you can have the rat tested if you can find it.

Find that kid who had the rat.

Also whatever authorities in your residential area should be cjecked in with once you know exactly where she was (you should look and see if there is unusual coloration or junk or metal drums, etc. near the site - and see what they know about it.

She was obvioulsy exposed to something - but it seems more chemical/rdiological than biological to me.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.

[seventhson]

21. PS - Strengthening her immune system is really important

the body can heal many many things, but she needs to be well-hydrated with immune boosting foods and anti-oxidents - stuff like omega threes and sixes, blueberries, garlic, minerals, aloe (externally).

Since it seems like this was absorbed through her skin or orally, she probably needs some good internally cleansing nutritional stuff - strong chicken soup. Cayenne is good but may be too spicy.

Herbs include Golden Seal, Myrrh internally and possibly well diluted tea treea oil.

I am not a doctor, but I worked with many and have a bit of experience with research on helping with radiation harm.

I do recommend blueberries mixed well with yoghurt and I like maple syrup in it.

[JCMach1]

28. She had blueberries for lunch today

:)

She is the child who has always eaten well and been above average in health.

[JCMach1]

25. No radiation... the site was pure desert until 1997

Chemicals??? distant possibility and unlikely because of the progression. From my limited knowlege, I think most exposures would manifes damage within 24 hrs. and would then be unlikely to spread.

He favorite play area is the side garden which appears to be pure desert sand with garden soil around the drip irrigation plantings.

[seventhson]

30. Could be in the water - irrigation - chemicals?

Just a thought. It is obviously best to check all the possibilities. The soil used in construction (fill) could be a problem and deserts near construction often get fill too.

What killed the rat?

[Bossy Monkey]

16. All the karma I got is on the way

In the meantime, consider researching/testing for lupus

[Thtwudbeme]

17. This sounds exactly like what a friend of mine's

child had...he was 6 at the time. The main difference was that the rash started on his cheeks-

The virus that he had was Fifth Disease.

I sent you a PM

Stephanie

[Brazosboomer]

19. Yep

http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/fifth.html

Here's some pictures and info on Fifth Disease. I thought the same thing when I read your description. I got it while teaching elementary school. Luckily, it's irritating but not serious. I broke out in sunlight for six months. Itched like the dickens!

Sending good thoughts your way.

[JCMach1]

27. A definite maybe. The pictures do look something like

some parts of the rash. However, there are also sporadic blisters (maybe 1/4 to 1/5 an inch in diameter and filled with clear fluid)...

Those seem to burst relatively quickly leaving a crusty sore.

Also, the skin is acutally peeling (like a severe sunburn) on her back.

We haven't been in the sun without cover for over a week.

[silverlib]

37. My thoughts are with you...

and I hope she is well and home soon.

[RainDog]

24. Fifth's Disease

that was my first thought, too.

My oldest child became infected with fifth's when we were living in Belgium, and the low-grade fever and mention of chicken pox sound the same.

My son had lots of small bumps, though, not open burn-like sites.

It is so difficult when your child gets sick, especially one so young, when it's hard for them to explain the way they feel.

[madmax]

22. Love, prayers and good karma

coming to you and your family. :hug:

Keep us posted.

[Lisa0825]

23. Your family will be in my thoughts....

my computer is VERY slow (so is my connection), I probably couldn't get very far trying to help search, but here is a source I used to use for medical info. I worked in a medical center, and this resource searches medical journals.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

[JohnLocke]

26. I'm so sorry...

[bicentennial_baby]

29. Is it SSSS?

Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome? It occurs primarily in children, and sounds very similar to what you are describing. I pm'd you a bunch of info.

[JCMach1]

35. After checking this out... it really could be

The good news is she is getting an IV and a broad spectrum anti-biotic already.

That should stop it if it is SSSS.

I will give everyone an update tomorrow.

[jus_the_facts]

31. Sendin' some good karma ya'lls way...

.....so sorry to hear this. :pals: :loveya:

[darkstar]

32. Along with heart felt wishes for

both a speedy recovery and peace of mind for your family, here's a shout out to the AMAZING DU braintrust and spirit of helpfulness. Inspiring!

Hope your daughter gets well very soon.

[Lizz612]

34. Good vibes to the little one!

:hug: I hope you and the doctors can figure out what it is so that she can start getting better.

[Orangepeel]

36. Much love to your family, JC

My thoughts are with you. Good luck!

[Snow]

38. Your friendly epidemiologist thinks the 5th disease is the first thing

to check - that's what popped into my mind as well. Lotta times this gets missed because it's unusual. It's a parvovirus, not much you can do except symptom support. But she'll be okay.

Plague is highly unlikely.

The allergy thing is a possibility, or some kind of toxicity given the rash starting around the mouth. Not necessarily that she ate anything she shouldn't have, but maybe she touched something and then touched her mouth without washing hands.

A final remote possibility that looks something like what you're describing is another sort-of virus, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. It's a rickettsial disease, but you said you live in a desert area, and I don't think there's Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever in such an area, since it's tick-vectored.

Go with the 5th disease....that looks like the best bet, and check the other less likely candidates, treat them too if you're unsure.

[bicentennial_baby]

41. What about SSSS?

Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome? That's what it sounds like to me. :shrug:

[Snow]

48. Yeah, sorry - thought I had included that under 'and the rest'

frankly, don't know enough about it to really say much more than what you did....

[Jack Rabbit]

39. My thoughts are with you, JC

My mark from the website of the University of Kansas

[populistmom]

40. No idea, but thoughts and prayers for your little girl.

:hug:

[meti57b]

42. I'll keep her and you and all of your family in my thoughts.

[ewagner]

43. Positive vibes coming your way!

and one of these too :hug:

[Mass_Liberal]

44. I'm very sorry

I hope that she will be fine. Good karma and vibes to you.


Hugs,

Dave

[Crewleader]

45. I am so sorry to hear this...

You all are in my prays JCMach1 & Clyrc. :hug:

[LuLu550]

46. More good thoughts and prayers coming your way

:hug:

[JCMach1]

47. It's now morning over here and I will head back to the hospital

this morning. I already talked to my wife and the rash has spread more.

Thanks for all the help and I will update everyone when I return home this evening. :(

[Snow]

50. Oh! You're living in the UAE?

Crapparino, I'd been basing my epidemiologic thoughts on an assumption of US southwest residence. Apologies. My list of strong possibles still stands, but I'll need to check to see what else might be out there.

on edit: Okay, I went to the CDC's traveler site, & there wasn't anything listed for the Mid-east that would look like what she's got and that we haven't mentioned. I think you can cross the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever all the way off the list (thankfully, I've only seen a few cases & it's nasty). Hang in there!

[SaddenedDem]

53. Kicking for today's update

Our thoughts are with you JC!

[RainDog]

54. keeping your daughter in our thoughts, JCMach1

hope you arrived at the hospital to find good news.

[northofdenali]

49. I'm adding my prayers and good karma to all the rest -

Hugs to your little one, and my thoughts with you and CLYRC :hug:

[annagull]

51. Aw, JMach, sending good karma and prayers your way

Also, reading through the posts, looks like some DUers might be able to help figure this out. Hang in there, she is going to be just fine. :grouphug:

[lpbk2713]

52. JCM? Any late word from the hospital?

I have my fingers crossed. BTW, is this a UAE hospital? Do you have confidence in them and the care they are giving your daughter?

[KeepHopeAlive]

56. Sending good karma

There is nothing worse than feeling helpless and overwhelmed while our children suffer. I hope today brings good news.

A big hug for your family. :grouphug:

[JCMach1]

57. Thanks for the good karma... I posted an update

on a new thread...

It looks like she may have stabilized.