House of lies: Is fibbing to your kids ever OK?

[BridgeTheGap]

Honesty may be the best policy, but it's not always practical, experts say

On a recent shopping trip to Marshalls, Colleen Weston decided to skip the parenting advice about teaching kids life lessons at every opportunity. Instead of explaining to her son why he couldn’t have a toy that day, which surely would have triggered a tantrum, she took the easy way out: She lied.

“My son, who’s 3, started to fuss about wanting a toy, some gladiator or Transformers man I wasn't going to waste my money on,” Weston, 35, a Middletown, Conn., mother of two, recalls. “I told him, ‘That’s for 8-year-olds. The checkout clerk won't allow you

In effect, she told her tot that he’d be carded at the toy counter — and he believed it. “Weak, I know,” says Weston. “But we got out of Marshalls with only what we needed and no fit.”

No meltdown. No embarrassed, distraught mother. No problem?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25593236

[KitchenWitch]

1. I prefer the more honest approach of actually disciplining my children

Children do need to get used to "No".

[MrCoffee]

2. Colleen Weston needs a smack upside the head

And her kid is an idiot for believing her.

[Shell Beau]

3. The kid is 3.

[MrCoffee]

6. So? My kid never would have tried that when she was three

She knows better than to beg for stuff in the store.

She's four now, so she's moved on to much more sophisticated deceptions. She points out the crap in the store that she's seen on TV and says "That's advertised. I don't want that."

Her 20 month old brother is learning well, too.

It's called parenting. Teach them about that bullshit and they won't fall for it.

[Shell Beau]

8. I am just saying that most 3 year olds believe what their parents

tell them to be the truth.

[MrCoffee]

10. That I agree with...and lying to your kids is bad

[Shell Beau]

12. I agree with that. I just didn't agree with the kid being

an idiot for believing mom. Mom is an idiot, yeah.

[groovedaddy]

69. Just don't feed the beast! And you don't even have to be an ogre about it!

Kids are smart enough to figure out what behavior works and what doesn't. If whining gets them what they want, they will keep doing it. Ignore the whining and they'll try something else. Better yet, give them a way to ask that isn't so shrill and best - when they understand they can't always get what they want (but if they try sometime, they just might find, the get what...)

[Midlodemocrat]

11. She's a moran. And, that kid, if he is still pitching fits at 3 when she says no

is going to crucify her when he's a teenager.

[redqueen]

15. Perhaps...

or perhaps he'll just be spoiled.

My sister in law raised her son that way. Spoiled rotten... gets away with everything... to this day.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. I've known parents who took that route a bit too frequently

and there was hell to pay when the kids were old enough to realize that the parent was afraid to be assertive. OTOH, used rarely with a child too young to know any better, probably not so bad.

[zingaro]

5. That logic boots Santa, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny too. nt

[Courtesy Flush]

31. And Jesus! n/t

[Danger Mouse]

42. Please don't insult people of faith. Many DUer's are Christian.

[Zhade]

47. It's not an insult to believers to correctly identify Jesus as myth.

NT!

[Danger Mouse]

50. Oh yeah, putting him in the same category as the Easter Bunny isn't at all insulting.

:eyes:

[Courtesy Flush]

53. Are you insulting your children

When you teach them about the Easter Bunny? Fiction is fiction. There aren't varying degrees of truth, just because there are varying degrees of belief.

[Shell Beau]

55. The point is Christians don't believe Jesus to be a myth.

[moriah]

56. Even most non-Christians don't believe Jesus was a myth.

My dad is not Christian, and he firmly believes that Jesus existed, and that the teachings attributed to him are good ones.

I believe that too.

[Shell Beau]

57. I kinda thought that too.

I guess the poster meant His immaculate conception, etc. But still, I find it inappropriate to bring that up when there are many Christians here. Comparing teaching your child about Jesus to telling them there is a Santa Clause... Seems like someone is trying to ruffle some feathers.

[BridgeTheGap]

58. Christians who tell their kids about Jesus AREN'T LYING

about their belief. Big difference.

[Zhade]

64. Considering there ISN'T sufficient evidence that even a mortal Jesus existed...

...it's not trying to ruffle feathers. It's attempting to show that both are lies, and I don't think lying to kids is cool.

Of course, in the case of Jesus, since the parents don't accept that he's a mythical figure, it's more about them lying to themselves. I mean, they KNOW there's no Easter Bunny.

I hope.

[Shell Beau]

71. Yeah, ok.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

63. And? Their belief doesn't make him any less a myth.

NT!

[Danger Mouse]

61. Christians don't believe that Jesus is 'fiction'.

[Zhade]

62. It's a difference in degree, not kind. Both are mythical creatures.

NT!

[Shell Beau]

70. I am pretty sure there is historical evidence that Jesus existed.

[Rambis]

7. Never fight with kids

You state the way it is going to be and that is it. They can throw a fit and we remove them if they do. Once they know you are serious they don't do shit like that because they will never get their way ever. If you give in you are finished. You can choose to believe in whatever you want is what we say.

[MrCoffee]

9. Exactly

Wholehearted agreement here

:thumbsup:

[regularguy]

13. Not that I've never BSed my kids for convenience sake.

but this parent seems extremely wimpy and over the next few years is going to absolutely steamrolled if she doesn't get some backbone.

[Zuiderelle]

14. I think that's a very lazy and irresponsible way of dealing with the situation.

Children who don't learn that they can't have things, just because their parents say that they can't, will be HELL to deal with later in life. It does a MIGHTY disservice to the child and to everyone who has to deal with the child later.

The tantrums are difficult, but it's part of growing up, and part of the responsibility of parents to usher their children through life.

[pokerfan]

24. Nothing wrong with a firm 'no'

But I'm an uncle, not a parent. But I never have problems, I think partly because I never give in to begging. Begging is learned behavior and like all learned behavior it doesn't have to be rewarded every time in order to be reinforced. Give in once to begging and you've taught them that begging works. At least sometimes.

And speaking of tantrums:
http://www.youtube.com/v/pa2KvqGiIKo&hl

[BridgeTheGap]

16. I never lied to my kids about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth Fairy, etc.

These fables help to establish parents as liars and is a very poor example for children.

[raccoon]

17. Good for you. And from my own experience, I believe that in families

where there is little trust to begin with, telling kids about Santa Claus, etc., only adds up to one more lie.

[Zuiderelle]

19. I'm really conflicted about that.

I think as long as the fib is not unlike other things you tease about, like... "why, where ever did THAT come from?" pointing to some thing you got for your child, that he very well knows came from you... then that "lie" doesn't really seem like anything that will profoundly affect the child or make him consider his parents a liar. Instead I think it could be a good lesson for eventually understanding more subtle human communication, using tone of voice, winking, etc.

"Wow, I guess Santa Claus must have come here last night" using that same conspiratorial tone, isn't as bad as "Santa Claus definitely exists."

It's a hard balance, and one that most kids seem to survive when they make the transition from believing in those things to understanding that they are things that all kids believe, but that are not true. It's not as if one kid's parents are the only parents who've "lied" about those things. I certainly wouldn't have wanted my child running to kindergarten on the first day and dashing all those five-year-olds' dreams by saying "My parents told me that Santa Claus doesn't exist."

[groovedaddy]

51. We just told our kids that it was a fun game to play and part of a story

There never really asked if Santa / Easter Bunny etc. were real. I don't recall that it ever became an issue with kids they went to school with.
Something really bothers me about lying to children in this way. I think it lays down something foundational about honesty / lying. I don't think you always tell children everything either, because some "truths" are beyond their comprehension (depending on the age).

[Zhade]

48. So no gods either?

Now THAT'S good parenting. Hats off to you!

[trof]

18. I LOVE it! Can't wait to tell my daughter.

:rofl:

[jobycom]

20. I can barely raise my own kids, I'm not going to tell others how to raise theirs.

I don't lie to my kids because I hate lying, and because my kids have grown up expecting me not to lie. I've known very good parents who do try to shelter their kids by lying about little things. Sometimes they have very good reasons for doing so. It's certainly wrong to lie for selfish reasons, to make a kid like you, for instance. But as long as the parent is doing what they think is best for the kid, not themselves, then the parent should decide. Every child, every parent, every relationship is different.

Every kid will grow up with issues related to what parents do, no matter what decisions the parents make. Do what you can, do what you believe in, and let the therapists sort it out in twenty years. That's my motto. :)

[Runcible Spoon]

21. HOW is this NOT a flamewar yet?! usually Santa Claus is pretty good bait and it's here..

c'mon Lounge get on your game!

[groovedaddy]

60. A little patience is all that was required! n.t

[Runcible Spoon]

65. there we go.

that's more like it. :evilgrin:

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. This is PRECISELY what tasers were invented for. God gave them to us, people - use them!

Geez.

:eyes:

[LaraMN]

23. I just tell my kids "I'm not buying that."

Their usual response is something like "yeahhhh... I know..."
They rarely got anything at the store when they were little, so they tend to not expect anything now.

[AwakeAtLast]

29. I will say, "You don't need that."

Now 6 y/o WMUette will actually stop and think about it before she says, "I guess you're right." UNLESS it is something she reeeaallly wants, i.e., willing to cut off her left arm for. Then we negotiate. ;)

It has helped her learn to prioritize. Took awhile, but she's getting it! :hi:

[BridgeTheGap]

25. A relevant joke...

A father asked his 10-year old son if he knew about the birds and the bees.
'I don't want to know,' the child said, bursting into tears.
'Promise me you won't tell me.'
Confused, the father asked what was wrong.
The boy sobbed, 'When I was six, I got the 'There's no Easter Bunny' speech.
At seven, I got the 'There's no Tooth Fairy' speech.
When I was eight, you hit me with the 'There's no Santa' speech.
If you're going to tell me that grown-ups don't really get laid,
I'll have nothing left to live for.'
--

[Dr. Strange]

32. Hahahaha...

Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that.

[MissMillie]

26. There are such things as harmless fibs

My mother used to tell us we'd get rickets if we slept in our clothes. Of course, by the time we were in 5th grade, the jig was up.

No harm, no foul.

And if it works to avoid a fuss, no big deal.

When it came to the important stuff, my parents were straight w/ us.

Do I distrust my mom because she told me I'd get rickets if I didn't change into my jammies? Hell, no.

[groovedaddy]

28. Yeah, but how do kids distinquish between a "little white lie" or a fib

and when it's appropriate to use them? There's the rub. If it's okay AT ALL, then they are going to push the envelope.

[MissMillie]

36. I think that as a parent

the rule is as it is w/ most aspects of parenting: go w/ your gut.

I think that, for the most part, when you act out of love, you serve your children well.

[groovedaddy]

37. That's true...consistency is good too. Kids like routine. n.t

[zanne]

27. I even hate to lie to kids about Santa Claus.

When I was asked if Santa Claus was real, I replied "Most people believe in Santa Claus". I couldn't believe I got away with it.

[Connonym]

30. Depends on the lie

"Mom are we safe from the tornado?" "You betcha"

"Mom are you scared?" "Nope" or "Yup" depending on the situation

Sometimes you need to give reassurance. Maybe it's not an out an out lie. I don't really know that we'll be safe from the tornado but my kid doesn't need to worry about that. Sometimes you have to tell them everything will be okay even when you're not sure.

[groovedaddy]

34. I've had people try to convince me that omission was a form of a lie

and maybe it is under certain circumstances, i.e. when the information omitted is really needed to make a decision.
I will often ask myself, "does this person really need to know this?"

[RedShoes]

33. Tell that to Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. eom

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. It depends on the fib...

I tried to fib to BabyG last year for awhile (alright, I tried to lie)... He finally pulled me into another room for the whole truth. A lot of children are smarter than we ever give them credit for.

[madeline_con]

38. How 'bout NO!?

It works, if applied correctly. The trick is to not let the kid get into the habit of having to buy a new thing every time he leaves the house.

[rug]

39. My kids still believe their dog is out hunting rabbits.

[NewEnglandGirl]

40. I think it's okay

to not tell them something that they're too young to understand. Or something that would really hurt them and they could not handle.

In the example above I think it was wrong to lie. They need to know that they can't always have everything.

[crimsonblue]

41. lie lie and lie some more.

A little lying never hurt anybody. And it builds character.

[BridgeTheGap]

68. Besides, where would our political system be without lying? n.t

[Danger Mouse]

43. Coward's way out.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

67. Nah Dude

Its depends on the question being asked. If my daughter asks me at age 7, if I ever tried drugs. Im going to tell her no. If she asks me at 15, my answer will be much different.

[ChoralScholar]

44. I'm not sure I would have fibbed in that situation...

but we told a fib to get our son potty trained...

Some of you may remember me posting this story a few months back:

-----------------------------------------
Up until we went on vacation, ChoralKiddo was physically ready for potty training, but just didn't want to do it. He showed signs of being scared of the toilet (a loud one had scared him at some point).

We did three things:
1.)We told him they didn't allow diapers in Myrtle Beach, and he would have to wear big boy underwear and use the potty.
2.)We let him pick out his own underwear (a package of Spongebob, and a package of Transformers)
3.)We also told him there would be a Transformers bathroom at the condo, and that Optimus Prime would
keep him safe while he went potty.... (I know it's ridiculous, but you do what you gotta do!)

So, when we first got to the condo, I slipped into the bathroom and applied some decorations.....




So, result is this, we left for vacation with a 3 year old who still wore diapers, but returned from vacation with a fully well adjusted and potty trained 4 year old.

We had tried everything else, so I stand by my decision.

[av8rdave]

45. I don't think I've intentionally told my kids fibs/lies. However,

I have omitted some things from a discussion that they certainly didn't need to know.

[Zhade]

46. Parents seem to think so - Santa, Tooth Fairy, Jesus, Republicans-aren't-evil...

NT!

[Shell Beau]

72. I don't get why someone would compare Jesus and Santa Claus.

If you don't believe in Jesus, fine. Who cares? I don't. But to come on here and bash Christians (which is what you are doing by saying parents are lying to their children about Him) is so pathetic.

[Schema Thing]

49. It "surely would have triggered a tantrum", because this idiot

misses the opportunities to teach her kid not to throw tantrums just because they pass by a toy.

If you pass by toys all the time w/o buying them for your kid, your kid doesn't waste their time and lung capacity on a tantrum. Kids actually live in a very real world, and they are far more practical than adults give them credit for.

bah, humbug. People are too stupid for life.

[BridgeTheGap]

52. How to Teach Honesty to Children

While lying is generally nothing to worry about for most children, parents can and should strive to teach honesty.

In Connection Parenting (Wyatt-MacKenzie Publishing, Inc., 2005), author Pam Leo reminds us that if we want our children to be honest, we must be honest. Honesty is best taught by modeling. Always tell the truth to your children. Be aware of the different ways in which adults can lie to each other and avoid those scenarios in front of children.

http://ethics-parenting.suite101.com/article.cfm/children_and_lying

[Runcible Spoon]

66. sounds like a big pile of pop psych garbage.

kids go through different developmental stages and experiment with truth telling, lies and the various rewards and repercussions. Eventually, unless they have some mental or social issue, they learn to white lie effectively. We ALL do it. EVERY SINGLE DAY you tell a white lie. You tell your husband "I'm fine" even though his chewing is driving you up the wall. You tell your sister she looks beautiful in her hideous new dress. You learn to balance honesty with maintaining social relationships. Even when dispensing truth, you learn to filter it and balance it so it will be processed without hurt. You change your mind constantly about what a truth is.

Santa Claus is harmless unless you want to get into the whole consumer culture thing; as far as "lying" to your kids well you might as well tell them the brutal truth about everything they ask right? Billy's mommy won't let him come and play because she's having an alcoholic episode and Billy has to be there to remind her to turn the stove off. I'm sure you will just tell your kid Billy's mom is "sick" and rationalize this as a non-lie. It's still a white lie.

You don't REALLY teach your kids to be honest. You don't really have to teach things like compassion and love to children, they express it naturally and you reinforce it through your own life and your interaction with your children. But as far as brutal honesty, that's a wash since it can't possibly exist. You teach them to be socially appropriate within their immediate cultural surroundings. But I guess that wouldn't sell as many books.

[BridgeTheGap]

75. "big pile of pop psych garbage" - is that a clinical term? ;-> n.t

[LeftyMom]

54. If this kid is throwing tantrums, Mom's previous behavior has taught him that tantrums work.

If she sticks to her guns when she says no and doesn't give in, her kids won't expend the energy on futile tantrums and whining. Then she'll be able to shop in peace.

As far as various treats (snacks, small toys, etc) go, my technique is to occasionally reward the kid with one IF he's been good while I'm shopping- usually on patience-trying trips to several stores. He almost never asks for something, and when he does he takes no for an answer, with at most a little pouting. Usually if he sees something he really likes he'll ask if he can get if for christmas or his birthday, whichever is next, because he knows he won't get it today, and just likes the idea of having it (then when the holiday rolls around, his actual list is usually pretty short.)

[groovedaddy]

59. I googled "the ethics of lying to children" - interesting stuff

Try it yourself, if you're so inclined. This link is to one of the more interesting threads on the topic that I ran across:

http://usuphilosophy.com/2008/05/14/lying-to-children/

[wickerwoman]

73. How else are you going to teach your kids to be skeptics?

My grandfather lied his ass off and I'm a much better person for it.

He also encouraged us to shoplift gum and candy from check-out aisles because he didn't like the store playing mind games and turning his grandkids against him.

I'm neither a compulsive liar or shoplifter... kids are a lot more savvy than grown-ups give them credit for and they like being let in on the joke now and again.

[groovedaddy]

74. If you have children, do they trust you? Skepticism is necessary

and it comes through developing critical thinking skills. While I didn't lie to my children, they were aware enough to know that lying happened (and did it themselves at times). The worse that can happen is to deceive your self. It's a long, slippery slope if you go there!

[BridgeTheGap]

76. Self-deception is one of the more common maladies of mankind! n.t

[nuxvomica]

77. No!

When I was a kid, my parents took us for one of our frequent Sunday drives (the gas was sooo cheap back then!). I noticed all the mountains surrounding us no matter where we drove so I asked my dad what was behind those mountains. He told me there were nothing but poison tomatoes behind them. To this day I still believe that on some level. I also believe that our dog Clipper actually went to live on a farm after he bit the mailman.