Batman.

[Writer]

I saw the Midnight opening a day or two ago. Wow. This has to be one of the best movies I have ever seen. Chris Nolan completely transcended the standard comic book hero movie. Comic books are not about the standard good versus evil motif, in my opinion, but about the human condition - and the philosophy within the movie revealed that deep need in most people to shun uncomfortable truths for comfortable lies.

Who else has seen the movie? What did you think?

[DarkTirade]

1. I'll probably catch a matinee on monday.

I'm trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible until then. :P

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. But is it REALLY better than Batman and Robin?

I think not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJWpmPGCR1c

[DS1]

3. tomorrow

I will see it

[charlie and algernon]

4. it's such a beautiful movie

I just got back from seeing it a second time and i gotta say, there are some absolutely stunning, gripping scenes. I agree with your analysis and I think the central theme of the movie is how far one is willing to go to fight for your way in life. The sides of good and evil have never been as hazy as they are in this movie. Would you kill one to save a million? Would you kill a thousand to save that million? The sides are so hazy because the corruption goes way beyond the city level, it has found it's way into their very souls.

[jobycom]

6. Not just the corruption, but the fear. SPOILERS

The fear is deep in the souls of the citizens. The Joker adds to that fear, or triggers it, but it is buried there already. The coruption of the police as much as the rampant crime has strangled the hopes of the citizens, and they each feel they are in it alone. When the Joker triggers them to kill Reese or suffer the consequences, everyone from the cops to private citizens feel their destiny is in their hands alone, and they try to kill Reese. By this point even the audience feels the despair. The Joker has killed Rachel, he has destroyed Dent, he has shown absolutely no reservations, no humanity. The extremes he goes to shock even the town of Gotham.

But the final scene on the ferries backfires on the Joker. He puts the lives of hundreds on each ferry in the hands of the hundreds on the other ferry, and ties the survival of each to willingness to commit brutal murder. It is a horrific dilemma, and even in the theater the film has been so real that the audience feels the fear and dread, and the hopelessness (at least in my theater). But those on the ferries have been pushed to the ends. They know they will die if the other ferry acts as the expect, as they themselves want to act. It becomes real. Their lives are in the hands of people like them, and in the end, they realize that their only hope of survival is not to act only for themselves, but to act for everyone, for all humanity. By showing their humanity, those on the other side do, too. They both survive because they are finally in control of their own fate, and they act the opposite of what the Joker wants.

I couldn't get over how well this film was directed. It worked because the audience felt everything. The normal action film no is reduced to a series of cliche actions and schematic plot elements that have no character. All glitz, no substance. Even smart films like Casino Royale or The Bourne Ultimatum happen in such unlikely universes that people feel only a superficial, intellectual involvement. But in Batman, at least when I saw it, everything was very real, ironically, to the audience. When Gordon was killed, in my theater you could feel the grief. There was a stillness in the audience, as people waited for him to come back--especially those who know Gordon is a regular character in the Batman ethos. You could feel that people were holding their emotions in check, and Nolan knew they would, and slid into a dark action sequence to take the tension in a different direction. When Gordon emerged to save Batman, my theater literally cheered, and you could feel the tension break. Then Rachel was killed, in unambiguous fashion, and once again it was real, and shocking.

In the leadup to the ferry dilemma, when they found the first detonator and some in the audience (me included) guessed what was about to happen, you could hear the murmurs and gasps of shock. People felt it. When the convict begged the detonator from the captain, then tossed it out the window, I heard people in the theater sob with relief.

The film was dark and depressing, and the ending showed that even the mightiest sacrifices didn't always pay off, and yet, it was hopeful. The citizens made the right decision when there was no hope they would. Dent had lost his mind, but in the end his sane legacy was reclaimed. It was reclaimed by making Batman a criminal, but even there, you felt the nobility of the sacrifice, and the hope that such people exist, and see the larger need.

Unbelievable film. I saw it last night, and I still can't come down off it. I had wanted to see several movies this weekend, and now they all seem dull and contrived, and I just want to see this one again.

So instead I'm babbling. :)

[Writer]

7. Game theory gone bad.

That's how I read the ferry scene. The Joker thought that one ferry would "give the other up," or perhaps, both would give up each other, according to Nashe's game theory. However, the stakes were too high (aka blowing up other people) for either ferry to comply with the game, so they each discarded the detonators. Game over, Joker. Not everyone thinks that killing others isn't a big deal.

[jobycom]

9. Hehe. Nash's Equilibrium. Didn't think of that.

It was kind of the opposite. For a Nash Equilibrium, both sides have to know that doing anything else will be less beneficial. But what they expected the other to do would lead to only one group surviving. Yet they each chose to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the other. So if life was the highest benefit, then both violated Nash. If the highest payoff was a clear conscience, then they reached a perfect Nash Equilibrium. Maybe the true game wasn't what to do with the detonator, but what they considered the best resolution.

[DS1]

12. I sooo wanted to yell

GO DEEBO!!!

:D

[Writer]

13. In what have I seen that actor before?

[DS1]

14. Friday, maybe

or any of these

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001474/

[jobycom]

18. That's President Deeboo to you.

[jobycom]

5. I saw it. I'm dying to talk about it unfettered by the need to avoid SPOILERS!!

Fantastic. Best movie I've seen in years. The intensity for the last hour was unbelievable. One twist and turn and shock after another, and not a single one was gratuitous--every one was earned, every one built to the climax, or climaxes. A multi-orgasmic film.

The first film to me was an allegory of the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. R'as al Ghul wanted to exterminate the entire city to destroy the criminals hiding there, as Bush did with Afghanistan and Iraq to get a few terrorists. The second film was an exploration of the chaos caused by terror, and how far one should go to protect against that terror. Questions of spying and torture, of when to break the laws and violate rights and when to obey them, were explored, but no firm answers were given. Batman brutally beats the Joker, but it results in nothing but more of the Joker's schemes. Batman creates a spy system so thorough Lucius Fox is angry about using it, yet they use it to save hundreds of lives. When they are done with the threat, the system is destroyed. Does this justify excesses of the government, or does it reveal their evils? The torture fails, but the spying works.

If I had to summarize, I'd say the conclusion is that an immediate threat justifies all means, but a general threat is not worth the compromises. But no answer is that easy.

The film is a true masterpiece, full of complexity. I can't wait to see it again.

[backscatter712]

16. If you want to talk spoilers...

http://rot13.com/

Or use whatever program you have handy, or rot13 it by hand (all the cypher is is shifting letters by 13 places - a becomes n, b becomes o, etc.)

[Radio_Lady]

8. Hello Writer, I've added a link to my KGW.com review on your thread.

Thanks for your comments. SeeU@theDU

Radio Lady Ellen Kimball in Oregon

http://www.kgw.com/lifestyle/stories/kgw_071808_lifestyle_batman_review.6aa5ebee.html

[DerekG]

10. One of the great films of modern cinema

I can't put into words what I'd just experienced. All I'll say is that every five or so years, there's a "popcorn" movie that somehow manages to transcend the trappings of its (sub)genre, and becomes Art.

Alien.

The Empire Strikes Back.

The Lord of the Rings.

And now, The Dark Knight.

Breathtaking. Just goddamn breathtaking.

[Writer]

11. I'd personally put it on a higher shelf than Lord of the Rings...

although I'm one who appreciates Peter Jackson's work.

[backscatter712]

15. BEST JOKER EVER!!!

People were worried about whether the late, great Heath Ledger would be able to deliver as the Joker.

He delivered.

Having read the comics, and having watched the animated series, I've never quite been satisfied with the way the Joker's been portrayed in movies and on TV. Too often, he loses his true edge and ends up being just a merry prankster thief. Jack Nicholson did a damned good job as the Joker, he brought a good taste of the Joker's true murderous madness.

But Heath Ledger really brought out the true nature of the Joker. Not a merry prankster, but a scary, violent, insane, psychopathic killer. Starting with the bank heist, then his "magic trick" for the Gotham mobsters' "group therapy session", then moving on to assassinations, kidnappings, blowing up hospitals, gheavat Uneirl Qrag vagb Gjb-Snpr (rot13.com if you don't mind spoilers) and escalating again and again and again, all with twitching, lip-licking, bizzare mannerisms, and this malicious psychotic glee that none of the other Jokers in the history of Batman movies have really figured out how to capture.

I wouldn't take young kids to see this one - Joker and Gjb-Snpr are truly scary.

[meegbear]

28. Fah! Cesar Romero IS the Joker!

Q.E. Motherfuckin'-D.

[elocs]

17. I have a friend who saw it at the Imax in Chicago and she said it was spectacular

and that I should see it at an Imax before I see it anywhere else.

[Symarip]

19. Personally, I think they should resurrect Danny Elfman's theme music.

I'm not sure how I feel about the film, yet. I think I might need to see it again and this time not at midnight on a Friday. I was expecting a comic book movie which this film is not. So I haven't quite digested everything I've seen. Still, it was definitely good and worth the mortgage payment it costs to get into movies these days.

[DS1]

20. DIsagree

I love the new style

[Writer]

21. SYMARIP DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!

[Symarip]

22. You can't stop me!

I'm going to edit in Elfman's theme and then distribute it as the official copy on bit torrent to piss everyone off.

[Writer]

23. NOOOOOOOOOO!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


NOOOOO - (cough cough)


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[musiclawyer]

24. Not being a naysayer totally

But I liked Batman Begins better. It had a better, well developed story-line for grown ups, with lots of action to boot. This one was was entertaining with some wonderful scenes but a tad bit too long, and very much a teen targeted movie--albeit much better made than most, and the best villain ever.

[Broken_Hero]

25. Saw it at the midnight showing Friday morning...

I thought it was, GREAT. Ledger really hit the role of the Joker, I thought he wouldn't do a great job(thought Ed Norton would be better), but I was wrong...Ledger, man...:thumbsup:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

26. Haven't seen the movie,

yet! But I do know the Batman was originally conceived as a vigilante type character, not really an alturistic person, though he has evolved over time.........

[LanternWaste]

27. Liked it for the most part...

The only real stumbling block I had in the film was that the moral "descent" of the DA seemed a bit forced-- not subtle at all.

I did like the lighting and the cinematography-- the gray palette was much more in line with how I've always imagined the world of Batman. The third act seemed a bit contrived, but overall I enjoyed myself.





The Watchmen though--- THAT'S the one I'm looking forward to. If it's only one third as good as the comic book (oops! sorry nerds-- Graphic Novel), I'll be a happy camper!