I don't think I fit in at DU as well as I used to.

[otherlander]

I'm not sure what it is... maybe everyone's love for Obama has brought the website as a whole back into the fold of mainstream politics where it used to be more alternate, or maybe I've just become more radical. Anyone else feel like this?
:shrug:

[derby378]

1. I don't think it's you...

I've simultaneously become more hopeful and more cynical since the 2006 mid-terms. On Election Night, we were celebrating the Democratic takeover of the House. 24 hours later, I was saying, "Nancy Pelosi said impeachment is WHAT?!?"

I feel for you, but please hang in there.

[otherlander]

3. I post when I feel I have something relevant to say

which, here, isn't as often as it used to be. But I've gotten involved in more real-world activism, doing stuff with a Quaker group and an anarchist group, even though I am neither religious nor an anarchist. Now that I have them to discuss my ideas with, I don't feel like I have to post here as much, but I still read DU pretty much every day.

[derby378]

8. Quakers AND anarchists? Interesting mix

I am a Quaker, myself. Good on ya.

[otherlander]

21. They're not the same group.

The quakers are 10 minutes from my house. The anarchists are about an hour away. But it's something to do on Tuesdays and Sundays. Believe it or not, they're into a lot of the same things: Sustainable agriculture, stopping wars, freeskooling, GLBT rights... I wonder what would happen if the two of them could meet each other. The biggest difference between the groups seems to be age, actually. The anarchists are a lot younger.

[ThomCat]

2. I guess I'm unusual, in that I support radicals even when I don't

agree with them. I see radicals as an important part of the liberal/progressive movement. We need to pull political debates back to the left.

All the wishy-washy "moderates" that worship the center keep moving to the right as the neocons pull the debate to the right. Those "moderates" will finally be useful if our radicals succeed in pulling the center back to someplace reasonable.

Political discourse in our nation has been pulled so far to the right though, that it's going to require a lot of leftist radicals a long time to get us where we need to be.

[otherlander]

4. That's pretty cool. If more people thought like that,

maybe the left wouldn't be so damn fragmented.
:hi:

One thing I've noticed about DU is that the less serious my posts are, the more responses they get. Which is great when I have silly nonsense to post, but when I have something serious to say it gets pretty annoying.

[jobycom]

38. Yeah, the loss of serious discussion is depressing.

I remember complex discussions on economics, religion, the pros and cons of individual candidates... You used to be able to say "I think Candidate X is wrong on issue X" and have a long debate about it. Now if you do that, the first thirty-six posts will thank you for your concern, the next ninety-two will say "That's what I've come to expect from you," even though you won't recognize anyone who says that, and the penultimate twenty-two posts will call you a douchebag, until the final post locks the thread.

You can go into the topic dungeons, but they are like closed cliques with their own language, where everyone knows everyone else's opinion, so every thread turns into a predictable exchange of details.

I shouldn't say every thread. There are the occasional good discussions even through the name calling. But there is such a barrage of dreck with every thread that it's hardly worth it, sometimes. Used to be that threads had lots of angles under each post. Now they are straight vertical lines, with everyone commenting on the OP, no one reading to see if someone already made that point. It's a graffiti board more than a discussion site.

That's why I hang around the Lounge. The people are saner here.

[otherlander]

40. Yeah... and what about discussions that *aren't* about politicians?

The ones about political theory, societal perceptions, patriarchy, education, history... and not just flamewars, but crazy, week-long debates where you could actually learn something?

[quakerboy]

45. wow

Yall make me yearn for an older DU I never knew. Was it really ever like that?

[otherlander]

49. I remember an awesome debate about capitalism

that went on for at least a week. It could never happen these days because it would just be people insultingly saying "communist!" "capitalist!" and get locked within two days.

[jobycom]

50. Hehe. That's a very good question! I was wondering that as I was describing the old DU.

Was it ever really like that? Probably some of it is nostalgia and the filtering out of the bad memories. There was a lot of name-calling, all the way back to the beginning.

But yeah, there was more discussion back then. Longer threads with longer posts, and responses to each other, rather than a bunch of one-line comments on the OP. People started threads to start discussions, and if the OP seemed like a vanity post, it sunk like a stone. It took longer to sink, because there weren't as many threads starting up, though. Maybe that's the difference--there were fewer people, and fewer threads to reply to, so there was more attention on each thread.

But its more than that. There is a different attitude here.

[quakerboy]

99. I have noticed some of that even

in the relatively short time I have been observing here. But I am always skeptical of "good ol days" comments.

I don't know. I think the one liners have their place. I just wish it were one line. And then people who actually want to discuss and come to a meeting of minds could take up the slack and get down to actual consideration of whatever topic is at hand.

I dunno. I see it from both sides, at the same time. There are a handful of people who really are concern trolls, who generally have clear patterns of behavior that can be observed. At this point, most of the remaining ones are really careful to come in right at whatever "line" exists. At the same time, there are now a bunch of Troll trolls who swoop down on anything thats not the party line. I suspect that some on both sides are just agitators. Others are well meaning folk just trying to deal with their existence. What do you do about that?

[jobycom]

48. Yeah, I remember getting into some of those...

I remember one on religion where people would mention it a year later in completely unrelated threads, where at the time I wasn't even aware anyone was paying attention. I don't even remember the topic, just that we were two atheists arguing over the nature of religion, using theological, Biblical, philosophical, scientific, and every other vein of thought we could think of. I think it was on the existence of Jesus, maybe.

Hell, some of the stuff Will Pitt used to post was brilliant. Now he seems to jump over here now and then to taunt about his Patriots, and that's about it. Not Will's fault, it's just that now if he posts something thought provoking he gets dumb-ass attacks from people who have no idea what he's talking about. There was always that kind of garbage, but now it seems like that's most of it.

No one even reads the longer posts anymore.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. I know what you mean exactly.

My cynical remarks are immediately criticized by the seemingly paid campaign staffers. There is absolutely no subversive thought here anymore, plenty of personal insults, threats & shit.

[Runcible Spoon]

10. I really wouldn't doubt there are paid and volunteer campaign staffers on here./

the usual indication, to me anyway, is a January 2008 registration date, accompanied by many thousands of posts. Most of which are so rabidly pro-candidate (take your pick) they border on kool-aid drinking.

[otherlander]

26. Yeah.

[SPKrazy]

6. I think that inevitably

everything changes, the one guarantee in life, stick around and things change

you change, I change, people here change, people come and go, political climates change, life changes, everything changes

I think you fit as well as you fit today, which may not be the same as yesterday or tomorrow.

Same here. Even through the field of electrons, radio waves, etc. change happens and it effects everything.

not a bad thing

you may have become more radical

DU may not be as "underground" as it was when shrub was elected, causes are different, on and on.

:hug:

don't leave though, your voice, thoughts, feelings are important.

Lest we become a party of lockstepping freaks. We need the diversity, the radicalization of ideas, etc. I'm radical on some areas and not in other areas, that changes over time too.

One amazing thing to me is that as the country as a whole is for the most part admitting to the insanity of having GWB as pResident, there is this amnesia on behalf of the ones who elected him. I have a friend who voted for him, who runs him down like crazy now. Its like a disconnect, there is a critical mass to oust him. He's done anyway. Now the trick is to convince the same people that McLame is just B*sh 3.

[otherlander]

27. Good to hear from you, man.

I really worry that the red states will just vote against Obama because he's black, but here's hoping that he'll get in anyway:
:toast:

[SPKrazy]

102. Remember that "red states"

are not all red

but yeah, that is a worry

:hi:

[snailly]

7. I know

Something just isn't right but I don't feel able to say it out loud.

[otherlander]

28. Hey, i don't think I've ever talked to you before.

Hi!
:hi:

Have a hug!
:hug:

[Runcible Spoon]

9. oh it's not just you!

I am having a hard time mustering orgiastic glee for Obama, who is way too Chicago School and moderate for my comfort level. In the wider arena of politics, being being fiscally conservative and socially moderate is fine and dandy. However, on DU, we used to champion progressive left candidates, and these days they are derided as loons. It's just sad.

I'm glad people are getting excited about politics, but talk is cheap when it comes to politicians and unless Obama makes tangible change without selling out to the right, I'm not gonna be attending any Obamania rallies. Sigh.

[ulysses]

13. about that...

and these days they are derided as loons.

Progressives have *always* been derided as loons by some on DU.

We've lost some voices on the site and gained some. No one's taken down the flag just yet. :)

[Runcible Spoon]

14. c'mon, you KNOW it's bad :P

"Nader" is like a swear word here now!

[ulysses]

15. now?

You've been here since long enough to know that that's not a new development. :)

[Runcible Spoon]

17. no, but they used to be fringe, now it's inverted.

I would never argue percentages or proportions, but just a quick overview of the sheer number of threads started by the most vocal. It's always going to be contingent upon personal experience, but given that I was never one for posting glowing recommendations of any establishment/DLC type Dems, I certainly feel a bit more "piled on" when it comes to criticizing them. It also hasn't been until this year that the whole "if you don't support X get the fuck out, purity troll" shit started.

Yes, DU was always messy, but there was never really any sort of strong sentiment that if you didn't back the perceived status quo opinion, you would be verbally abused and told you didn't belong here, until the last 6 months.

I dunno, I haven't even touched GD-P since the European Tour threads started taking over discussions of real substance.

[ulysses]

22. oh hell, "purity troll" is just a new name for the same old shit.

I've been told my share of times that I don't belong here. I remember one post in the Early Dayse claiming that there was no such thing as a "small-d democrat". Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Here's where I'm at now - we'd be stupid to expect the world from Obama, and I intend to keep up well-placed criticism of the campaign and what I expect will be his first administration. But, having voted for Nader twice, I'll pull the lever for Obama now and keep looking for ways to effect change gradually.

[otherlander]

30. I don't really like him much

but I really want him to be president because if he loses we bomb iran and the draft gets reinstated.

[SammyWinstonJack]

88. I don't like him at all but I like mccain even less and he scares the crap out of me.

[LostinVA]

101. Yup

[Lorien]

67. I feel the same way

my politics are much closer to Kucinich's, so I don't identify with our Authoritarian/ Right candidate. I just look at it this way; with Obama things will likely stay as they are (with the corporations remaining as our overlords), with McCain things will get even worse. So I'm not terribly excited, or hopeful-though I still hold out a sliver of hope that Obama will pleasantly surprise me if he gets into office. I'm glad that people are passionate about politics again, but it's the very same sort of passion that Reagan enjoyed from his supporters.It's about personality and feeling good, not policy.

[Redstone]

120. Uh, I don't remember Obama promising you any orgasms. If that's what you

are expecting from a presidential candidate, be prepared to be dissapointed.

Redstone

[Runcible Spoon]

123. I don't expect shit. I'm just commenting on the reactions of others.

Thought that was relatively clear, guess not.

[ulysses]

11. doesn't pay to look at it like that.

Why are you worried about "fitting in" anyway? Unless something changes your mind, hold your course.

[Runcible Spoon]

12. good advice! OP, Ulysses will take you under his wing!

we all belong. represent.

[ulysses]

16. no one needs to be under my wing.

Especially when I'm attracting shit. Which I occasionally do. :)

Look - I have plenty of old friends who've been banned or just taken leave of us who probably look at me as an enormous sell-out for still being here and for supporting Obama to the extent that I do. You can't let that get to you, from either side. Be open, yes, but stand your ground. At this point, I'm taking a long view and keeping the memory sharp.

[Runcible Spoon]

18. it's a figure of speech.

I just wanted the OP to know there were visible, popular posters who were more or less aligned to his/her perspective. Sheesh.

[ulysses]

23. I know.

Not trying to pick a fight. :) I want the OP to stand on his or her own (which you do well, btw) regardless of where, or how popular (which isn't always so much) I am.

[Runcible Spoon]

24. good to know!

and with that, I'm off to put some merlot in me! g'night Ulysses! :hug:

[ulysses]

25. had mine already!

:toast: Sleep well. :)

[otherlander]

31. Well, I'm an outsider everywhere else

so it would be nice to fit in somewhere.

[ulysses]

34. well, fit your ass in here, then.

Tell someone to move over. :)

[Breeze54]

19. WTF? DU was always 'predictable", on an 'even keel'?

What were you drinking/smoking and can I have some?!

:toast:

[otherlander]

32. Water/nothing

Not predictable, but closer to my own ideas, yes, more so than it is now.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. I feel you. --

does it tickle? :hug:

[otherlander]

33. Lol

:hug:

:hi:

[Lil Missy]

29. I'm unfamiliar with your position in GDP, but Obama winning the nomination doesn't bother me a bit.

Is that what you are talking about?

My gawd, there were so many qualified Democratic candidates this time that it was so difficult to pick just one to support. But I am not a "one-issue" supporter, nor do I insist upon a "purity" test.

I've probably said too much already. And, thus why I avoid GDP with a passion. I make up my own mind and have no need to debate or argue about it.

Suffice it to say that I am supporting the Democratic nominee, even if it turns out to be my cat's asshole.

[otherlander]

36. Thanks for asking, but...

this really has very little to do with Obama. For the record, though, I find him marginally likable, just slightly better than Hillary Clinton. Voting for him, but not crazy about him.

This has more to do with the overall tone of discussion on DU. I feel that it's gotten more and more vitriolic. There are fewer and fewer threads that I feel like contributing to. When I start my own threads, they only get replies if they're silly ones. It's frustrating.

[Lil Missy]

56. That tells me you spend most of your time in GD or GD Poop.

I supported Hillary too. But Obama is the winner nominee, and that is who I support now. I happen to think he is a very deserving and qualified candidate too.

But, if the choice came down to McBush or my cats butthole, I'd vote for my cats butthole.

[otherlander]

58. Nonono i think you misunderstood

I didn't support her. In fact I find Obama slightly better than her. But I don't really like either of them.

I ignore GDP. I hang out in GD, LBN, the Lounge, and occassionally I lurk in the Asperger's group. And I really think GD used to have more interesting discussions... not about politicians, but about IDEAS.

[Lil Missy]

65. My apologies. As I review your message again, I see that I did misinterpret.

I can't really comment about the tone or experience in GD right now. I read, and even comment on occasion.

But for personal reasons, I just have no energy or willingness to fight or debate. Although, I do often learn a lot just by reading. There are a lot of cool cats in LBN and GD. But sometimes, it's hard to sort through and get past the idiots.

[TZ]

35. Ummm what happened to this being the big tent party?

This is what irritates me..I have no problem with centrists being here. I've never thought this should be a extremeist only site..One because it gives some people a distorted sense of reality..If this was an extremeist only board than it becomes little more than an echo chamber and therefore much less interesting and informative.
I'm either a) much less judgemental of others with differeing pov's or b) one of those "centrists" who make this place uncomfortable for you (though IRL I have yet to find anyone more liberal than me).

[otherlander]

37. It's not the centrism that bothers me

It's the vitriol, the focus on trivial things, the decreasing number of discussions I feel I can really be part of, and the fact that the discussions I try to start go nowhere while threads about violent video games get literally hundreds of replies.

[Lorien]

69. I think that's learned behavior from the MSM

people are lazy and fearful. They don't like to seriously discuss the big issues.

[Lorien]

68. It was never an extremist site

If you were alive during the '60s and 70's in any area other than those that were always ultra conservative, then you can remember what it was like to really be a liberal progressive. These days "left" is center, and "right" is far, far right extremist. They've shifted the ENTIRE playing field to the Right. When questioned on the issues, the majority of Americans ARE quite liberal, but the MSM brainwashes everyone into rejecting that description of themselves by making it a dirty word. I've hardly met more than a half dozen "far left" posters on DU since I started reading it at the beginning of 2002. This is a centrist board, with more Obama Republicans than far left extremists.

[w8liftinglady]

39. we all belong!Please stick around!

[otherlander]

41. I'll keep looking around

but I don't know how much I'll post. Real-life activists are nicer to talk to these days. They don't call you a troll or completley ignore you.

[w8liftinglady]

44. there are no dems in my neighborhood!keep posting!

[Connonym]

53. me too

there is a great bunch of Milwaukee area DUers, all of them simply great but in my particular suburb I'm surrounded by a bunch of red-neck conservative types. They're not gauche enough to tell you they won't vote for Obama because he's black but the reasons they give for not supporting him (i.e., Obama versus McCain, I'm not talking the primaries -- I personally wanted John Edwards) leads one to believe these people are morons or lying about their racism.

I voted my heart in the primaries but now for the general election I'm throwing 100% of my support behind Obama because even though he isn't perfect he's our guy and he's better than McCain. I do admit to being quite disappointed on how he's moved to the center more since he bagged the nomination. We NEED a radical change but I don't see that it's going to happen :'(

[w8liftinglady]

54. ...but maybe he'll attract the moderates?

[jobycom]

42. I think it's become more pop, less indie.

Used to be more serious discussion amongst people with different views. We would debate about Nader/Moore/Gore/DLC/9-11 and all of that, and all sides would have their say, usually with some intelligence and logic to back up each. Tempers still flared, and there was still name-calling, but there was more genuine debate.

Now if your opinion is different than the majority, rather than discussion you get hammered with name-calling, "thanks for your concern" bullying, and all other juvenile forms of forced compliance. The goal isn't to win a debate anymore, it's to gang up on the dissenter and force compliance.

I think that comes with success, though, or maybe failure (Bush's). Bush has pissed off so many people that we have grown, and the Internet has grown, and people who show up now aren't the serious political activists of the old days, but just people following a candidate or a cause. They aren't always as knowledgable, and are more interested in a single candidate (not just Obama) than in an ideology. It used to be that when one of ours stepped out of line, people would call them to task. Now when one of ours crosses a line, half his or her followers cross the line behind them and pretend that's where they were all along.

Oh well. The good and the bad news are the same. Our side is popular, or at least the other side isn't.

[otherlander]

46. That's all wierd and paradox-y

but yeah.

[flvegan]

43. Bell curve.

Stick around, we need you on our end.

[otherlander]

47. ^_^

But it's just the interwebs, after all.

[Connonym]

51. Another DUer said the same thing to me today

I try to stay out of GD simply because of the confrontational nature of so many posters there. I feel that I can't post about an opinion without providing links to stuff supporting my opinion. I guess that's why I like the Lounge. More casual, less vicious and we can have a discussion without having to provide foot notes. I like discussing stuff but more in a shooting the shit sort of way. I HATE to post a question about something that I'm not too familiar with and get a snide response to do some research. To me the whole point of being here is to bounce stuff off one another not to show off who has the most attitude. Finding out all my information through other venues and not being able to ask a stupid question now and again goes against what I come here for. I come here mainly to be around people with similar ideals, to learn from them, to share experiences, to socialize. I'm passionate about my beliefs but not to the point of feeling I have to slam other people who don't agree 100% with me. It's all about the community and I find that in the Lounge, on the Wisconsin page but GD is too (insert negative adjective here) for me. If that makes me a powder puff liberal, so be it.

[otherlander]

52. I am too tired to respond intelligently to this post

so here's bob dylan with a funny thing on his neck.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E06SoECIp1U

[otherlander]

55. I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY

Every time I see this thread with the flame on it I think oh no it's a fucking flamewar...and then I click on it, and it's a lot of posts, but nobody's fighting! :wow:

[newmajority]

57. If this helps any, consider the big picture.

Electing Obama ain't the end of anything, it's the beginning.

Next step is taking out the trash in our own party. Starting with what's left of the DLC (and you know they're hurting because the Hillary "inevitability train" derailed somewhere in Iowa)

That's what DU used to be about, and it will be again...... call it a gut feeling on my part.

[otherlander]

59. k

[w8liftinglady]

60. well.hell-folks...rec this

[otherlander]

61. :)

They don't have to do that.

But hey... It's a thread... and it's flaming... but it's not a flamewar!
:woohoo:

[w8liftinglady]

62. so...I'm intoxicated...love ya!

[otherlander]

64. .

:hug:

[otherlander]

63. This is... NOT ABOUT OBAMA!

You want to know what this is really about? This is about a thread I posted, like, 2 fucking months ago about the abusiveness and warped oppressive mentality of the mental health care system. And, like, one person answered. I kicked it three times and 200 something people saw it and no one else replied, not even Underground Panther who I know agrees with me. There I said it, and now you all get to laugh at me for being pathetic enough to still care about that one fucking thread, but I don't care, I'm listening to the Grateful Dead. I don't need this shit.

[w8liftinglady]

66. aw,c.mon....We are you.re friends!

a




nd.yes...i'm drunk...love ya!

[otherlander]

70. And now people say they're my freinds

but when I start calling out their little buddies they become oddly silent... their little buddies who smash children's heads against walls and scream at them and lock them in fucking cages just for crying! Just because they claim to be advocates don't make it so, I'll tell you that right now. The next person to claim to be my friend, tell me right now, are you on NAMI's side or on my side? You can't be on both! Read this and tell me you can be on both:
http://www.szasz.com/iol19.html
"Some families have learned to "turn over the furniture" before calling the police. Many police require individuals with neurobiological disorders to be imminently dangerous before treating the person against their will. If the police see furniture disturbed they will usually conclude that the person is imminently dangerous."

OMFG!

And it's tempting, yes, to stick to specific examples of illegal abuse, but what really needs to be seen is the utter lack of compassion offered to psychologically traumatized CHILDREN! Nine-year olds who were living on the streets dealing drugs for food money to avoid living with abusive foster parents, and they're punished for not fitting the role of the good American kid. And it happens to adults, too, but there's such shame and stigma surrounding mental illness that they never even talk about how they were mistreated while being "helped". I used up all my fucking eloquence on you people, and it just wasn't good enough, was it? I stated what I had witnessed- and risked forcable sedation to report back to you, stealing contraband writing impliments to record what I saw around me- and even drugged out of my fucking mind, I did it with the most eloquent words I could FIND! And did you answer? NO! So I'm through being polite and well-spoken with you, I'm angry and I'll sound angry if I want to!

[newmajority]

74. The health care system in general is fucked in this country.

Mental health, probably more than anything. And yeah, I have some experience dealing with that side of it. Also have some experience with child abuse, but I don't really feel like getting into either one of those stories. Let's just say I don't have much use for anyone who harms children. There's some scars there that even time and forgiveness don't heal.

Aw shit..... now I'm bumming myself out. :hug:

[otherlander]

75. I'm sorry you had to go through any of that.

:hug:

[newmajority]

71. Well, now I know you have to stick around.

You're a Deadhead, for Jerry's sake! We need more Deadheads around here. Drown out the haters with the music, or at least give 'em a contact high so they'll calm down. :hippie: :crazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdTQ3OPtGY

[otherlander]

72. It's not the hate that kills me....

it's the apathy.

:cry:

[w8liftinglady]

73. I'm with ya...c'mon..We need you!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

91. This is the internet.

Let it go! T'ain't healthy to care so goddamned much about one thread. :)

[harmonicon]

117. listening to the Grateful Dead is nice

This reminds me of why I do stick around. LBN, the lounge, and sometimes GD are places for me to discuss almost anything, knowing that I won't have to deal with completely insane right wing crap, or comments from folks who are ENTIRELY politically ignorant. So, we can talk about things like life, music, cars, books, and it's not so single topic specific as to become boring.

I definitely don't like that now I almost don't start posts at all, especially in GD and GDP, because I know that I'll either be derided, or start a flame war, when I just want discussion.

[Guava Jelly]

76. I think people are just excited that we have a chance to grab the big house again.

Obama wasn't my first choice and he is not the Messiah, but he is a powerful voice and an awesome Orator.
Let the people be excited(it's been a long time coming).
I think maybe I have become less Radical honestly or maybe I've just come to the understanding that there is no magic pill and there isn't a Neo who will bring balance to the Matrix.Obama isn't going to save the world but he certainly wont destroy it.
And a lot of people don't fit in here,Hell I probably don't but who cares.
I find those here that don't "fit in" to be more interesting anyways.

[otherlander]

77. Thanks for replying.

That could be it, I guess. People here just don't want to talk about things that aren't the presidential election.

Holy fucking shit I stayed up all night posting on DU. Good thing I don't have anything to do until the afternoon.

[Guava Jelly]

78. No problem

That is why I mainly hang out here. To tell you the truth I quit paying attn: to the campaign after the primaries ended.
I will hop back into it after the convention I suppose.
Have a great days sleep. :D

[Lil Missy]

80. I had a rolled up piece of newspaper ready to swat a moth that got in here last night.

I was just about ready to swat the screen when you posted bugs.

Don't scare or tempt me like that! :D

[Guava Jelly]

81. I work for a company that makes computer monitors so I have my motives

Ya know stimulate business(I don't really).:D :rofl:

[Lil Missy]

82. Do you recall that commercial several years ago that had a HUGE cockroach crawl across the screen?

It was some bug extermination company advertisement, and in the middle of the ad a HUGE cockroach crawled across the screen.

Scared ME half to fucking death, and I jumped up off the couch to find something to swat it with. Then I realized it was just in the TV and part of the ad.

It scared so many people they had to discontinue the commercial. There was some news about some poor old fellow that broke his TV trying to kill the bug, LOL! They replaced his TV. Poor old guy was scared half to death, LOL!.

[Guava Jelly]

84. I do remember that commercial

eew..And I thought the same thing when i first saw it.

[CreekDog]

79. rose colored glasses in my opinion

people forget that when Al Gore ran, he was seen as quite a moderate until the convention.

people forget that when Dean was all the rage that he was decidedly centrist governor and member of the DLC whose style was "radical".

Obama is more liberal than either Gore or Dean politically, but his style is definitely centrist.

remember, leaders do influence the pendulem. 8 years of Clinton made us more liberal overall, 8 years of Bush and the Republicans have made the country more conservative.

we need change at the top so that the daily talking points are to the left of what we are hearing now.

my two cents.

that said, DU has changed in that supporters of candidates have become much more predictable.

[WinkyDink]

83. "alternate"? It's DEMOCRATIC U., not "Outside the Mainstream U."

[LaurenG]

85. There are times when

NO ONE fits in here. Just hang in there- things change, and that's all I know "fur shur." :7

[zippy890]

86. Yeah. but as someone upthread said things change

I remember a great thread a few years ago 'Its all about the women' a feminist discussion about islamic fundamentalists treatment of women. Never see anything like that anymore.

did you know there is an Iraqi Communist Party? i found about it here several years ago;

http://www.ifcongress.com/English/index.htm

please stay, we need your voice.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

87. It's worse than you thought!

The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky

[bigwillq]

89. I feel you

I still feel like I fit in fine here.

However, as someone whose first or second or third choice wasn't Obama, I feel like there are some DUers who are so fanatical about Obama who think that if you're not 100 percent behind him you are against him.

That is entirely not the case with me. I fully intend to support Obama. He will get my vote, and maybe more (still haven't decided yet if I want to help work on the campaign in some capacity). I have accepted the fact that he will be our nominee, and I even warmed to him and his campaign in recent months.

I want to win in Nov., and right now Obama is our only hope.

However, I have not been swept off my feet by him, and I doubt I ever will. He's a decent politician with a great message, and a campaign that's done an excellent job. But I don't have the same feeling I did when Dean ran. I don't know why but I never got that "feeling" with Obama, and sometimes it's difficult to express that point without being attacked as a "hater", or someone who's not supportive of our nominee.

[alarimer]

90. It's not just you.

I feel the same. I am definitely out on the left wing, while the Democratic Party (and most of the people who ran for the nomination) are more and more centrist. I am highly skeptical of Obama, as far as progressive values go. I think I've stopped being one of those "hold your nose and vote for the D" kind of people. I am not swayed by pretty speeches anymore. I do not trust the "messianic fervor" around this guy but most likely that is just a reaction to the last 8 years of crap. I hope the American people know better than to hope for someone to save them (ultimately it is up to us, not our politicians) and that they know it is necessary to hold his feet to the fire to uphold true democratic values and not shift things to the center to win elections or avoid being accused of being soft of terrorism or whatever. Mostly I think the DLC and Bill Clinton (although there is a lot to like about him) have ruined the Democratic Party for actual progressive values and that Obama is simply following that formula, horrible though it is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

92. i think this place is stupider that usual. the anti-intellectualism, especially if

its perceived to be against obama, really gets to me

like the cnn arguments about tokenism, the satirical new yorker cover and the article in the times about obama's being popular but vague.

[applegrove]

93. Don't forget that the membership has gone up by alot. Easy to get lost

in the huge shuffle.

[datasuspect]

94. they should rename the site democraticmainstream.com

or something.

i've never found a niche here.

[stuntcat]

107. ..maybe :(

I actually heard DU mentioned on the radio the other day, no lie, someone said the site started out very radically left. I signed up here late and missed those times, all I've seen is that being very radical about anything will get someone started hating on you.

I want to be in the energy/environment room niche :D but everyone's so frickin grumpy in there, it's like they can't not fight each other sometimes.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

100. ofcourse you are nt

[SPKrazy]

104. Geez...

cut some slack man

:thumbsdown:

[Skittles]

96. um, yes

the adoration factor that currently exists on DU is pretty sickening

[NJmaverick]

98. As is this post

:puke:

[Runcible Spoon]

103. if you don't like this thread....

there are plenty of other adoration threads for you to fawn upon. You might even find rainbows and ponies!

[NJmaverick]

105. Yeah imagine going to the DEMOCRATIC Underground and seeing

postive posts about a DEMOCRAT. WTF is wrong with you?????:wtf:

[bridgit]

115. so...insatiably psychotic smack talk about "a DEMOCRAT" is all Groovy Tuesday at...

"DEMOCRATIC Underground"? Cool :smoke:

[Runcible Spoon]

119. yes, if those "democrats" are turn coats and traitors like Pelosi,

they deserve everything they get for selling us out. Having a "D" next to one's name doesn't make one a good Democrat.

[bridgit]

121. just trying to get it right, Nancy Pelosi is a turn-coat & traitor to America, check!

:thumbsup:

[Runcible Spoon]

122. yep, add Bush enabler to that list.

glad to know you're up to date now, spanky.

[bridgit]

126. Well yes dear, but shouldn't you be leading the charge w/pitchforks & torches...

to place Pelosi' head on a pike somewhere, or in stocks, spindling perhaps...dear? I love that post from a Dem activist during the whack'ah doodle primary season around here; a Dem activist that happens to as well be a DUer,

"Talk is cheap. And political talk is the cheapest."

[Runcible Spoon]

118. big ass difference between positive

and absolutely cringe-inducing worship. But hey, as I said, go do what floats your boat. Just back off those of us who choose to talk about politicians as if they were politicians. :hi:

[Redstone]

106. The fuck difference does it make if we have a Democratic candidate who is

supported by a whole lot of people?

Should DU be contrarian, just to be contrarian? And sork against a popular Democratic candidate, just because he's popular?

That would be just, well, stupid.

Redstone

[otherlander]

113. Well, it could be the reason

why people on this website have seemingly become less willing to consider radical ideas. Because they like a guy who doesn't support those ideas, and they don't want to disagree with him.

[Redstone]

114. Oh, spare me. You want to find a website where everyone conforms to your idea of

perfection? You can probably do that; it's a big Internet out there.

But if the people at THIS website don't please you, guess what: They/we aren't going to change in order to satisfy your requirements.

And that's a concept which, though it may not be comfortable for you to accept, happens to be the way the world works.

Redstone

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. blind support is stupid. support so much that you cant see satire

is even stupider. (not callin you stupid, just saying a level of adoration can strike one as stupid)

i can like bill clinton while admitting that welfare to workfare was an assy move.

[DylansDreams]

108. What do you mean?

I have been here a few days and it seems that some people are fairly bright and some are not so bright- I'm not crazy about Obama but anyone is better than what we have now or what the Republicans put forth. I'm more of a Socialist but you can't always get what you want.

[Guava Jelly]

110. Welcome to DU

:)

[DylansDreams]

111. Thank you very much.

:-)

[I Have A Dream]

112. Welcome, DylansDream!

:hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

109. Politically speaking, I'venever fit in around this place.

I've always been a little to the left of most here.

[harmonicon]

116. yep, absolutely

I haven't become more radical, but it seems like ever since the primary became a two person race, there stopped being much intelligent discussion around here, at least about politics and governance.

Part of the problem, I think, is that the Democratic party has become a catch-all for people who aren't rabid about one of the third parties, and also aren't bat shit-crazy Republicans fascists. Many high profile Democrats, based on their positions, would have likely been Republicans 20 years ago, but that party won't have any of it now. We're now the conservative party and the liberal party - it's a bit of a mess. I identify with Democrats like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, but a lot of what was on their presidential platforms which drew me to this party are ignored or even ridiculed by other Democrats, even on here.

[Wetzelbill]

124. Kucinich or die!

Yeah I hardly feel like I fit in as much anymore either.

[bridgit]

127. heh-heh, "Die, heretic scum." - Emo Philips

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said, "Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. - Emo Phillips

[asteroid2003QQ47]

125. It's Social Entropy in action.

We are all buckled in for the ride, like it or not.

-----------------------------------------------
The flame will cool tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow.... But someone must see this already today, and speak heretically today about tomorrow. Heretics are the only (bitter) remedy against the entropy of human thought.
--Yevgeny Zamyatin,
(On Literature, Revolution, Entropy, and Other Matters, 1923)