I'm agonizing over this %&$@#! oil painting. Help me finish it.

[Lorien]

It's for a student competition. I generally work as an animator or draw animated characters for product lines-or I illustrate kids books. But I gotta branch out because times are really, really tough. Everyone wants oil paintings, so I'm trying to learn, but it's SLOOOOWWWW going. I know; sexy fairy. Don't laugh! My mentors (who helped me a lot so far but aren't around for the next few days) are Boris Vallejo and Julie Bell: http://www.imaginistix.com/ and Greg Manchess: http://www.manchess.com/ so you can kinda see the influence, though they each have almost 30 (in Boris' case 40) years of painting on me so I'm a rank amateur by comparison. Fantasy art is a big thing these days, so I need to learn what I can.

The leg and two flower petals are still only roughed in, the hands and left arm need adjustments-maybe the face too. The wing edges and hair aren't done. Should I get some patterns into the wings? Rough in a vague background of a few trees in the morning mist (Julie thought that might be too much). Add some foliage to the lower left corner? Any ideas?

Thanks! It sucks having all your artist buddies at the San Diego Comic Con all week when you need some feedback!


copyright 2008 Lorien

[SeattleGirl]

1. No suggestions (sorry), but I do want to say that that is a beautiful

painting!

[Lorien]

5. Thanks Seattlegirl!

I've got a good ways to go on it yet. Trying to make the wings look both slightly translucent AND iridescent is making my head hurt (along with the turpentine).

[Heidi]

8. Have you tried an odorless mineral spirit instead of turpentine?

I use Sansodor, but there are lotsa good OMCs. I kinda like the smell of turpentine, but I know the fumes are bad for me, Ginger and CMW, so I use an OMC. :hi:

[Lorien]

12. I have some, but I don't know if it changes the quality of the paint

much at all. Boris and Julie were just using turpentine and since I spent a week watching them, that was about all I felt comfortable with. I also have turpenoid, but it kind stinks too. Do the mineral spirits thin the paint as easily as turpentine does? Will it dry in the same amount of time?

[Heidi]

14. To tell you the truth, I notice no difference whatsoever since I switched to OMS.

Sansodor doesn't seem to dry any differently than turpentine, and I know that many teaching artists no longer use turpentine in their classrooms. :hi:

[Lorien]

19. Thanks for the tip!

I'll give it a try. :-)


:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

9. Can you walk away from it for a day?

Just to clear your head (in both senses of the word)?

Sometimes, that helps me when I am working on something and get stuck.

[Lorien]

11. Unfortunately not. The deadline is in just a few days

and it'll need a bit of time to dry. Otherwise, that's just what I would do!

[SeattleGirl]

16. Aw, too bad.

Still and all though, I really don't think you have much more to do, and several others have given you some good suggestions.

Good luck to you!

[Heidi]

2. This is lovely.

I wouldn't do anything else in the lower left corner unless you can think of a subtle device for guiding the movement of the work toward the upper right, in pace with the flow of the hair and the hands. Really, really beautiful! :thumbsup:

[Lorien]

3. I was thinking of showing just another bit of that vine

starting from the vine's base and arching over to the right-just going up a few inches, with a couple of leaves. Or another unopened iris tilting to the right hand side. That's a shadow area so not a lot will show up there.

[Droopy]

4. Ditto Seattlegirl and Heidi

The work is beautful although I'm no artist. I know that Heidi is however.

[Lorien]

7. Thanks Droopy

It's nice to get a few responses here. My threads in the lounge almost always drop like granite. But, I'm feeling stuck here. If I make the cut with the contest it'll be some good publicity which could bring some work. The crappy economy is killing me.

[truedelphi]

45. I have to agree with them.

And they aren't holding a gun to my head.

I like your work a lot. And have been around quite a bit of it, having had friends who worked in that genre. It doesn't look like the work of a rookie either.

And the colors are sensational.

[Lorien]

46. Thanks truedelphi. Fantasy art wasn't my first choice

I would have rather continued with children's books or wildlife art. But I can't survive on children's books: six months of work for $7,000 with numerous changes doesn't cut it. The wildlife art market is glutted and tanking. Same with Gallery art; too much competition, not enough buyers. I did a lot of research and found that during tough economic times and war fantasy has historically ALWAYS increased in popularity. Look at the Victorian era and the 1960s and 1970s as a few examples. People want to escape, and they want something that makes them feel good. I understand why Wyland and Thomas Kincaid are so popular, even though I really don't like what they do (I even did a limited edition print with Wyland once. My God, it was ugly. but it sold)! I have to try something new because the old avenues for income have almost dried up completely. Scary times, these.

[lunatica]

6. I'm new here but I have a suggestion you might like

In the second shot you show a lot of fantastic reflected light in the girl's body and neck and face. It's really good, but the hair ought to have it too. Pick up some of the cool colores from her wings and some of the warm colors like the ones on her abdomen. Give her hair dimension and sheen.

Also, your idea of a vague kind of misty background is a very good one.

I think after that it'll be finished except for a the last few tiny adjustments, if any.

[Lorien]

10. Yeah, I was planning on adding some subtle sheen to the hair

a fellow student suggested purples and blues "straight out of the tube". Some rich, dark auburns could set off the blues and lavenders that are already there, though. I might play around with it in the Cintig before I decide.

I'm glad you seconded the idea of the background. I'll also knock that around in the Cintiq first. I think that if it's subtle enough it won't complicate the composition too much.

[lunatica]

15. Even though you might put in a vague background

if you make it recognizable as a forest, or a meadow once the eye goes to it that would be best because of the level of detail in the foreground. It would keep the whole thing consistent and won't make the background look like an afterthought or fill in.

You're quite a talented artist.

[Skittles]

13. did you mean for them to look like breast implants?

just asking

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

20. I'm betting she could hold a bag of flour under them n/t

[Lorien]

21. Oh well

everyone's got a critic.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. if animation is what she is used to, most anime ladies look like that

its why i like the painting. combine romantic nature of oil paintings with the edginess of anime.

[Droopy]

18. Oh my lovely

Don't you know that you can never get too high on the blessed hellride? One more drink, a nervous breakdown and another war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1gkSjU2EPc

[Lorien]

22. ?

:shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

23. My God, your work is beautiful. No suggestions, but wow.

Absolutely gorgeous. You're very talented.

[Lorien]

37. Thanks Midlodemocrat!

:hi:

[DarkTirade]

24. I'd think about leaving the wings pattern much like it is

but adding some color depth to it. Maybe have another layer of color or two along the edge past or before the greenish blue. But instead of doing flat color, have it be a shift. Kind of like the inside to middle part of the wing, how it goes from purple to plain. Only a quicker shift, and all along the edge. That way it will kind of simultaniously draw the eye both away from the fairie and back towards it again.

I'm more than a bit impressed... I can't get a brush to do what I want no matter how hard I try. :P That was really the hardest part in my last art class.

[Lorien]

31. Oils are definitely a bitch. I find acrylics much easier

and digital is even easier that acrylics! But oils also have a depth and richness that the other two can't quite duplicate, so I've got to try to figure it out.

Yeah, I'm going to make the dark teal that's there iridescent too, but thought that I could jazz it up a little before doing that by making it look a little unusual somehow. Maybe some random patterning along the edges, almost like a sort of tattoo. I'm trying to think of ways to push the "fantasy" idea a bit more. :shrug:

[DarkTirade]

56. Yeah, I've never really tried oil.

But the only times I've made a paintbrush really work for me was when I was doing kind of a watered down acrylic wash for faded color in an art project that used mostly solid lines (done with an ultra-thin marker) with just a faint color in the background. :P I really suck at painting.

[Schema Thing]

25. Looks amazing from here

very cool, Lorien.

the leg interacting with the flower petals is brilliantly erotic.

I guess I think where the flower meets the upper leg needs something, but I couldn't say what? Maybe soften/lighten the thigh/hip crease? Darken the highlight on the upper leg a tad?

[Lorien]

33. Yeah, that area was working better before I put down a second layer of paint

I'll have to try to figure it out again. I did take a photo of the first layer, but it's not as easy as photoshop where you can just click "delete layer" lol!

[SeaLyons]

26. It's beautiful as is....

[dropkickpa]

27. Nice!

I would go in on the bottom half of the wings and do some lightening of the shades of the foliage behind (just along the wing edges) because of the closeness of the color shades between the wings and the foliage. That closeness in color makes it seem a bit muddy and the lack of contrast makes them seem a little flat. Lightening the foliage behind will let the wings *pop* a bit more, you really don't want to lose them, they're pretty!

[Lorien]

61. Thanks dropkickpa!

The photo of it is a bit dark, so I'll probably darken the wings on the bottom to get the same effect. It's been tricky making slightly translucent and iridescent wings move from light into shadow successfully!

[MilesColtrane]

28. Beautiful painting.

My input, for what it's worth:

Put some light in her hair. Right now it just looks too flat/black. Try to make it more three dimensional.
Not necessarily a lighter shade of hair, just some way of showing light reflect/glint off of it?

For some reason I want to see bright blue along the very outside edge of her wing/s. Keep the teal, but just add blue along the edge. Like maybe the same color blue as the interior of her wings, but not mixed with so much white.

[applegrove]

29. You are very talented.

[femmocrat]

30. It's gorgeous!

Doesn't need a thing, IMO.

The butterfly pattern is fine as is, but I would go a bit darker around the edges when you finish them. The bottom right of the wing is almost the same value as the background -- unless you wanted it that way to draw the eye to the figure. The hands are very elegant!

[devilgrrl]

32. What's wrong with it? Looks fine to me. Outstanding is more like it.

:crazy:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. combines romantic nature of oil paintings with the edginess of anime.

love it

[Lorien]

44. Thanks lionesspriyanka

a little edginess would be good since the contest is in ImagineFX magazine. They prefer much darker stuff though; demons, fangora, that sort of thing. I could do it but I wouldn't be terribly thrilled with painting despair and horror all day. My thoughts are dark enough as it is.

We had only a hand full of subjects to choose from; two were based on science fiction books, one was Robin Hood (I tried, but couldn't come up with much that wasn't already iconic), and the last was "plant life"; a human form either surrounded with or integrated with a plant form. Lots of Ents were being done, so I just started playing around with something kind of art nouveau. I had planned to do it in earth tones before I ended up with Boris and Julie as my instructors. I really like Arthur Rackham and Edmond Dulac, but if you've got a chance to step outside your comfort zone, why not?

[RedShoes]

36. her left arm, unless you put some hair going around it...

If you wanted some detail in the fairy wings, it might work, but I wouldn't do too much as far as a sunrise goes, etc. It might distract from the beautiful, sexy fairy.

You are insanely talented though. :hi:

[deucemagnet]

38. How about big, sad eyes and rainbows?

:P

[spinbaby]

39. I like the unicorn

Nice touch.

[spinbaby]

40. Accidental duplicate

I swear I only clicked once.

[Lorien]

42. So you two are really comparing my techniques to those ?

or are you just feeling extra snarky today?

[spinbaby]

47. Aw...

Hugs.

:hug:

You really do have a nice painting. But I like the unicorn a lot, too. Maybe I have no taste?

[deucemagnet]

48. I was trying (and apparently failing) to make a joke.

I think your artwork is amazing, that's why I thought it would be funny if I suggested some touches utterly lacking in taste on any level. Sorry if it came out wrong. :hi:

[Lorien]

41. Nice

I was looking for a bit of constructive criticism, but I should have expected as much.


Lost my animation job, commercial contracts are down, children's books pay crap, you got a few BETTER ideas for an out of work illustrator?

[deucemagnet]

49. Again, I'm sorry.

Check your PM. Your artwork is amazing, and I was just making a silly joke that you obviously didn't appreciate, so please don't take offense. I wasn't trying to be mean. Really!

[Lorien]

52. That's OK. I'm just on edge and somewhat panicked

my work dried up so quickly this year, and I don't know how I'll ever "reinvent" my career quickly enough to avoid possibly losing the house and my health insurance, or ending up like one of my colleagues: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7961956 . Illustration and animation are the only things that I'm trained for. I could have finished a psychology degree, but the seven shrinks in my family are hitting hard times too (insurance companies no longer covering mental health care). Plus-I have fibromyalgia and CFS and no SO...so I have to make it work on my own. It just seems like a lot sometimes. I have to make this work somehow. Fantasy art is one of the only growing sectors in commercial art, so if not this then I'm at a loss.

[deucemagnet]

54. Well, that's certainly enough to put anyone on edge!

Best of luck in the contest and in your new direction in your career. I'm certainly impressed! :thumbsup:

[Hawkeye-X]

59. Actually I do.

Graphics illustrator for a lot of websites.

I love the painting - I'd say not to change anything, but my painting skills are limited to a crappy boat that I painted last year copied from a photo of a beautiful boat.

I learned that I can't paint worth a damn, so I gave up and sold my kit for about $75. (I spent about $200)

Hawkeye-X

[Fox Mulder]

43. That is a great painting.

You're very talented, Lorien. I don't know if I'd change anything in it. :shrug:

[MichiganVote]

50. Like the colors but I'm having trouble with the left hand line of the body.

You seem to want to balance sort of a voluptuous body but the elongated line on the left seems too thin. Also, even though it is fantasy, the foot seems ungrounded. Is she sitting back, leaning forward, balancing on her toes or about to emit diamonds from her toes. You also have some nice light play on the face and neck but it doesn't seem to make it to the hair making the black look flat. What could happen with that?

All comments meant to be helpful. Don't shoot the messenger. :)

[Lorien]

53. Do you mean the upper arm or the ribcage area on the left side?

The shoulder/ shoulder blade area could use improvement. I didn't use a specific photo for reference and that was a mistake. I'm used to just looking at a model sheet of a character, then having a 3D picture of it in my head and drawing it from that. I thought it would work the same way here; I had a book of photos of model Laetitia Casta and thought that I could just study a few photos and do the same thing; not so easy! I'm taking some figure drawing classes, but obviously I'll need more.

She's flying out of the Iris, so she's not supposed to have any weight on that foot. I might turn it a bit so that's a little more obvious.

I still have to put the highlights in the hair, but I wanted to work out the shapes first. Probably blueish highlights.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[MichiganVote]

55. The upper arm. You're not that far off actually, Look at your negative space

around the head and arms for a guide.

Cool....been a long time since I did any art, so keep it up!

[Lorien]

57. OK, I think I see what you mean. I'll fuss with it a bit

maybe look at it in a mirror to see it more clearly. Thanks again!

:hi:

[MichiganVote]

58. My pleasure. Nice work.

[NashVegas]

51. This Is Lovely. Screw Competition

TO ALL THOSE AT MTV,

I WOULD LIKE TO START BY THANKING YOU ALL FOR THE SUPPORT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME OVER RECENT YEARS AND I AM BOTH GRATEFUL AND FLATTERED BY THE NOMINATIONS THAT I HAVE RECEIVED FOR BEST MALE ARTIST. THE AIR PLAY GIVEN TO BOTH THE KYLIE MINOGUE AND P. J. HARVEY DUETS FROM MY LATEST ALBUM MURDER BALLADS HAS NOT GONE UNNOTICED AND HAS BEEN GREATLY APPRECIATED. SO AGAIN MY SINCERE THANKS.

HAVING SAID THAT, I FEEL THAT IT'S NECESSARY FOR ME TO REQUEST THAT MY NOMINATION FOR BEST MALE ARTIST BE WITHDRAWN AND FURTHERMORE ANY AWARDS OR NOMINATIONS FOR SUCH AWARDS THAT MAY ARISE IN LATER YEARS BE PRESENTED TO THOSE WHO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE COMPETITIVE NATURE OF THESE AWARD CEREMONIES. I MYSELF, DO NOT. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OF THE OPINION THAT MY MUSIC IS UNIQUE AND INDIVIDUAL AND EXISTS BEYOND THE REALMS INHABITED BY THOSE WHO WOULD REDUCE THINGS TO MERE MEASURING. I AM IN COMPETITION WITH NO-ONE.
MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY MUSE IS A DELICATE ONE AT THE BEST OF TIMES AND I FEEL THAT IT IS MY DUTY TO PROTECT HER FROM INFLUENCES THAT MAY OFFEND HER FRAGILE NATURE.

SHE COMES TO ME WITH THE GIFT OF SONG AND IN RETURN I TREAT HER WITH THE RESPECT I FEEL SHE DESERVES - IN THIS CASE THIS MEANS NOT SUBJECTING HER TO THE INDIGNITIES OF JUDGEMENT AND COMPETITION. MY MUSE IS NOT A HORSE AND I AM IN NO HORSE RACE AND IF INDEED SHE WAS, STILL I WOULD NOT HARNESS HER TO THIS TUMBREL - THIS BLOODY CART OF SEVERED HEADS AND GLITTERING PRIZES. MY MUSE MAY SPOOK! MAY BOLT! MAY ABANDON ME COMPLETELY!
SO ONCE AGAIN, TO THE PEOPLE AT MTV, I APPRECIATE THE ZEAL AND ENERGY THAT WAS PUT BEHIND MY LAST RECORD, I TRULY DO AND SAY THANK YOU AND AGAIN I SAY THANK YOU BUT NO...NO THANK YOU.



YOURS SINCERELY, NICK CAVE 21 OCT 96.

[hippywife]

60. I used to paint

a very long time ago when I was young and had lots of time on my hands. One thing I do remember is to not overwork a piece. You can drive yourself nuts! The only thing I think that needs to be done to this to finish it is to fix the angle on her navel. The way she's standing, it shouldn't be staring straight at you.

:hi: