Social Security - do I have a right to get it?

[Raven]

There is a good deal of talk about this on GD, but I wanted to see what the Lounge Lizards thought about it.

I have been paying into Social Security for 30 years. I have worked all my life, raised a kid, put him through school, paid my taxes.

I get a letter from the Social Security Administration every year now telling me how much I can expect to receive when I reach age 62 or age 66.

In planning my life going forward, I have relied on the Government's representation that this money would be coming to me.

I believe that I have a right to collect Social Security benefits or, at the very least, if the Government abolishes the program, I should get my money back with interest.

What do you think?

[Insider]

1. i sure hope you get it

it will be a helluva situation if you/we don't.

[Raven]

2. That's a very good (and practical) point!

I was going on the fairness argument but the practical, real world ramifications of people my age not getting it are enormous. I think the government might actually end up spending more if they cut the program.

[mdmc]

3. If your forty I wouldn't count on it

but if your fifty, your in like flint!

I'm 33, and I realize that my Mom and Dad and their friends are going to bankrupt the system before I get my money back.

Growing up, all my Social Studies teachers told us that we would never see our SS money. I've always thought of SS paycheck deductions as a tax.

You should get your money back, I just don't have it to give you.

[Insider]

4. like so many corporations/military/etc

will they offer some small 'buyout'? i'll take 15k NOW to invest on my own. don't drink, don't smoke. that's a good deal for them, right? (i'm 41, and life expectancy is...80ish?)

[SoCalDem]

5. If not YOU, whom??

SS is and always WAS an inter-generational promise..It's not OUR fault that we did our share..OUR money paid for YOUR grandparent's social security.. If not for their social security, YOU might have had to make do with less. Children end up supporting their parents in the end...one way or another..

Our government HAS the money..they just don;t want to use it for the purpose that it was deducted every paycheck.. The box on MY checks always said FICA...not government slush fund..

The pitting of generations against each other, is just another ploy that is used to bring out the greedy nature of people.. Turn away from it..Stand up and demand that the CEO's start getting LESS freebies..

Our country has its priorities exactly BACKWARDS.. People first..THEN the rest of the "stuff"..

Don't worry, though.. with healthcare getting harder and harder to come by, lots of us will die before we even try to collect, so "your" money may be safe after all.. just don't hold your breath, because Uncle Sam has sticky fingers:(

[greatauntoftriplets]

7. Extremely well put, SoCalDem.

And don't you think there will be hell to pay if we don't get it?

[mdmc]

27. SoCalDem points out that the SS system works, and I agree

we have to be willing to give the GOP hell when they try to take our benefits away from us.

[Raven]

13. BRAVO!

Perfectly put. :-)

[papau]

8. Not true - the system can go forever as pay as you go - but if you cut

all taxes, you will destroy SS - as you also destroy the Federal Gov.

The SSA site has the trustees report with the actuaries projections - there is no problem

The trust Fund assets are gov IOU's that can be paid off via FIT tax increases (right now the SS Fund gets these bonds as pretend payment for the excess payroll tax that is collected over and above the need for cash to pay benefits). The excess payroll tax today pays for the cut in the taxes for the rich - so an increase later to repay the money seems reasonable.

If the gov actually pays off the bonds - the system is solid to 2043 on the sort-ta bad projection, and good forever on the reasonable economic growth projection. Indeed until Bush changed the answering machine at Social Security, you were told while on hold that the system was safe to 2043.

The WORST that will happen is retirement age is raised from the current Reagan passed age 67 to age 70.

The best that could happen is that the wage cap is removed, and the rich pay for the calm society that occurs because of SS's existence - rather than the rich all saying that they do not get enough of a return of their money (like I get a return on the contracts given the rich owned corporations by gov and paid for with my taxes).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Thanks for weighing in

I was just getting ready to stick this thread in your mailbox :D It really is wonderful having you around when these issues arise.

[papau]

21. Thanks - It makes 40 years as an actuary not a total waste! :-)

:-)

:toast:

[Raven]

9. Your Mom and Dad aren't the ones bankrupting the system...

the Government has done it for them. Social Security was meant to be a trust fund. The money that has gone in was to be invested thereby earning money. It was supposedly set up to take into consideration the retirement of the baby boom generation. My money has gone to support my parents' generation's retirement. Your money would go to support your parents' generation and so on. The Government has robbed Peter to pay Paul and the people proposing to cut SS (like Greenspan et.al.) don't need it anyway!

[Bridget Burke]

10. Don't blame the other generations.

Blame the ones who've made insane tax breaks for the richest & for corporations. The ones who start wars so their friends can make profits.

Most teachers are pretty good, but you can't believe EVERYTHING they tell you.

[BiggJawn]

29. Hey, don't blame us...

mdmc, your post smacks of "Hey, you old fuckers, hurry up and DIE so we can have your JOBS!"

It ain't your Mom and Dad and people like me who are killing the system, it's Bush and his rich friends.

You believe it's old people living "too long" that are killing SS, you believe a RW LIE.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Three years ago you would have

There was a study that completely debunked the CATO study. Now it is indeed a crap shoot but your odds of getting it at full value being over 50 are still good because ALL of the current laws are being aimed at post 1960 birth dates.

What they WILL do is lower the amount one can earn while on SS in order to tax retirees at higher amounts and of course they have already in essence lowered your medicare benefit.

In your case, I would make note of any and all health issues that crop up as time goes by because colletively they can qualify you for SS at a lower age based on MEDICAL SS disability...arthritis, hypertension, and any of a number of issues associated with health changes in post menopausal women can help you to qualify earlier..before the deluge.

[Raven]

11. Jesus! I never thought of that!

I have always thought that I'd wait my turn until age 66. I'm 58 so if I took it earlier at 62 for instance or for a medical conditions, couldn't they cut it anyway?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. It might be cut by a small amount but not much

I am not certain about a voluntary lower age, but MEDICAL disability to my knowledge is not cut...it kicks in at age 50 that if one is limited to light work and has certain disorders they are eligible..in your case since you have a post grad degree, it would be harder. The less educated you are, the less likely you are to find gainful employment with a physical disability...however...if your disease was an upper extremity disease such as carpal tunnel you would most likely qualify since it's hard to work with no hands.

That's why you should indeed look into whether that cold extremities thing is a circulatory disorder...the sooner you document it and the onset of symptoms..the better ;-)

[Raven]

20. Goodness! You have a good memory

about me! :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. No worries

I'm not building a dossier :D I memorized the tomato pie recipe too...I have a bit of a photographic memory..although it IS aging.

[Marlie]

15. Small business owner

My husband and I have owned our own small business for the past
thirty years. On average, we have always employed approximately
ten people. Because we own our own business, we have had to double
each of our FICA contributions for ourselves, so actually we have
paid double all these years. Plus, as you know, we had to match
each employee's contribution. Add it up people, we have paid so
much into this fund and the thought of these monies being given to
the very rich in their tax cuts rather than what this money was
contributed for is appalling. It makes me crazy. Social security is
not an entitlement program, we paid for it.

The blatant greed that has overtaken a country ruled by the wealthy
is sickening. We need to fight hard to get back to being a country
that cares for it's children, the sick and elderly and the middle
class, who have made our country was it is or should I say was?

[Raven]

22. There are more of us than there are of them!

I too had a small business and I know exactly what your mean!

[Stoker]

12. Don't count on it, bud...

It's been known for years that SS is going broke. You might be close enough to retirement that you might get some SS payments, but my guess is most people won't. Most people won't get nearly as much money OUT of SS as you put into it. As soon as people figure that out, they are going to start looking real hard at that Social Security tax they pay every week and wonder, "Gee, if I'm paying this money for my retirement, why aren't I going to actually get this money when I retire?" Answer: You are paying for other people's retirement, not your own.

Best bet? Save, save, save. Save for your own retirement. Don't count on SS. There's just not enough money in the program for everyone. They are going to start trimming the benefits and raising the collection age to compensate for it. My guess is SS will collapse within my lifetime. When people figure out that they've paid for 50 years and aren't getting squat back, there's going to be a revolution of some kind.

Stoker

[NicoleM]

19. Revolution?

Not likely. How old are you? I'm 28, and I'm pretty sure that most people my age are expecting that we're paying into a system we're going to get little to nothing out of. I don't think many people are going to be shocked if/when it happens.

[Stoker]

37. Yup - revolution...

I'm 33. Nonetheless, the day people sign up for SS and get nothing, there will be hell to pay.

Stoker

[papau]

25. "Don't count on SS" began with Reagan when he started the theft of payroll

tax to give to the rich via lower FIT taxes.

Prior to Reagan the mix-match between claims checks out and payroll tax in was keep at a level that equated mathematically with 3 to 6 months benefits. So the Trust fund was small. Reagan screamed that a small trust fund meant SS was close to bankrupt - while the truth was that a large Trust fund meant the rich had been allowed to steal a lot of money!

So in the 80's Reagan raised the payroll tax and set in motion the increase to age 67 that is in the law for "normal retirement (replacing age 65).

and for 23 years we have heard "Don't count on SS" as the GOP tried to get permission to raise payroll taxes and steal more for the rich.

The latest twist is Bush - "you are in control in a market economy"- just more bullshit to cover stealing from the poor and middle class to give to the rich.

[Raven]

31. "Papou" or "Papau" was the name we always called my Dad.

It means "grandfather" in Greek, doesn't it?

[papau]

32. Yes - and to most US Greeks it is also used for great grandfather

but there are really words in Greek for Great Grandfather!

How are Papou and YaYa?

[Raven]

33. Yaya is going strong at age 90...

Papou passed away three years ago. We are Irish but my older brother was stationed in Greece when he had his kids and they started the names.

[papau]

34. That's Great - 90 years is a number few achieve!

My Great great Aunt in Kalamatra is/was a bright red head as are/were her kids - hmmmmmm

There may have been some Irish vistors to Greece before your Brother!

[Raven]

35. Yup. We washed up on alot of shores!

:-)

[skippysmom]

17. You certainly do

I think we're all entitled to get it. We all participate in the system.

SS is an incredibly popular program and has been extremely effective at reducing povery among the elderly. Gutting it would be ludicrous.

[buckeye1]

18. You don't understand it.

The Republicans want to destroy it. They are well on their way. The government owes almost $2 trillion to the SS. Republicans have stolen it.

[Raven]

23. How many Republicans do you think there are who

are counting on SS? A good many is my bet.

[mdmc]

24. The SS system works

But it has some powerful enemies.
I beilieve in SS and I want to see the system work, for you and all of us to get what we paid in to it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. Yes

It is part of the social contract we have in this nation. You put in your dues to build this country up, in turn the country pays you back later.

[Deja Q]

30. Yes!!

Otherwise they're as much thieves as the corporations who they readily lick.

People need to stand up and fight for what is right. The "Good Times" episode "The Dinner Party" actually goes into the right of having social security and how they made cuts at the time (if you got an income, they took SS away from ya... okay, despite the heavy comedy they had to put in to balance the seriousness of the issue, it's an eye-opener. And the problem seems to be worse today.)

It's sad that Norman Lear's creations are undated where they made the bravest comments. :cry:

[MaineDem]

36. Yes, you have a right...and so do I

My husband is closer to getting it than I am - he'll be 60 this summer. I agree with you; we get the statement from the SSA and we've been counting on him receiving the payments for a long time now. The ramifications of SS going belly-up are scarier than I'd like to imagine. All these older folks without the means to survive. That's downright horrifying!

If "they" do anything to cut out the Social Security benefit there will be an outcry from the greying Americans that this nation has never seen before! I guarantee it.