having cpu overheating problems--anyone know about this?

[dorkulon]

I realize this isn't a tech forum, but I figure maybe someone here knows how to put together a PC.

Normally I can solve my own issues but this one is a doozy. I have a brand new system here, Asus pg5c-mmx/1333 motherboard, intel core 2 duo, 4gb ram (tests fine), seagate 500gb S-ATA drive, Nvidia 9800GT, 500w psu, and an old pioneer dvd rom I salvaged from an old carcass. Front and rear case fans. Fresh vista64 install, everything seems fine.

Long story short, when I run a 3D video game (City of Heroes or Call of Duty 4 so far, the computer shuts down without warning--sometimes almost instantly, sometimes in a couple of minutes. This happened the second I loaded in the first time, BEFORE I even adjusted my graphics settings to exploit the new card--I think it was at the lowest settings or possibly "performance."

I ran a mem test, no problems. I installed sp1 and updated the BIOS, no effect. I unchecked "Automatically restart" in the "Startup and Recovery" tab in System Properties, but still don't get a BSOD--the computer never restarted though, just turns off abruptly, and in fact I have to unplug and plug it back in to start it up again.

Then I ran some tests, using Orthos. The CPU test brings the temp up to 65c (at which point ASUS Probe starts flashing red) in about 40 seconds. The "stress some RAM" test produces the same result in about 30 seconds.

So far I've tried removing and re-applying heat paste twice, but I'm a newbie to this procedure. The first time, I think i didn't put enough on (pretty much scraped it all off with a business card), and the problem got worse. 2nd time, I wonder if I layed it on too thick. I also read on one site that "You may not notice any difference in temperature for a few days as the thermal paste needs to break in." Is that true? Should I wait a few days and see if it gets better? Or am I not doing the heat paste thing right? Should I use a thermal pad instead? I'm never quite sure if the heatsink is perfectly installed, one of the four pegs never seems to quite be locked down--but I am using the PC to post this, and I imagine it would hardly work at all if the heatsink wasn't flush to the cpu.

Again, I'm a novice with cpu/heatsink installation. Any advice would be appreciated.

[struggle4progress]

1. No CPU fan ?

[dorkulon]

3. No, there's a fan.

Working properly as far as I can tell. Probably should have mentioned it.

[puerco-bellies]

2. It's been a long time since I built systems but try another aftermarket heatsink.

Look for something with larger fin area and of course dual fans, and add another case fan. Even in the old days those cpu's generate tons of heat. I used to overclock mine. :evilgrin:

[dorkulon]

4. UPDATE

I reseated the heatsink/fan again, this time it seems to be a bit better--now it takes two to three minutes or more for the Orthos tests to hit 65c, and even then it just hovers around 64/65. But the problem persists. Also, the last time I reproduced the problem, the cpu temp monitor had it at 48c, not nearly hot enough to trigger a shut down. I am leaning now toward the theory that the power supply is not enough. I went to the Asus website and found a little doohickey called the Recommended Power Supply Wattage Calculator, and it tells me I need a minimum of 550 watts. I found that if I removed one of the 2gb ram sticks from the doohickey, it settled back to 500 watts, but in real life, it didn't pan out--still, I'm sure it's not perfectly accurate.

And this, from the same page, rang a bell: "Please ensure to use power supply unit capable of outputting over the calculated recommended wattage to prevent system instability, random reset, unexpected shutdown, or similar problems caused due to insufficient power."

So I'm thinking I need a 600w or more psu. But I also figure I ought to buy a better cpu cooling solution, since I'm pretty sure the point of those tests is that you're not supposed to overheat at all. Ugh.

OTOH, maybe I should just give in and take it to a shop and have someone who knows what the hell they're doing to figure it out.

[mainegreen]

7. My first thought was power supply on reading your post.

If you have less than 600w that could *easily* be your problem. I had a problem identical to yours. Turned out, that gaming created heat, and the heat caused the fans to come on, and the fans drew enough power to push me over the line.

[Betty88]

5. a few things to try

I would get an aftermarket heatsink for the CPU, you don't have to spend a lot on it. Use only a tiny bit of paste. Also for a few dollars more try a fan for the ram. I built a computer a few months back, it BSODed so much I wanted to trash it but once I put a $20 fan on the ram all the problems vanished. The PSU might be an issue, if you have an old video card, something that eats less power, put that in and see if it makes a difference.

take a look at these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835704001

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200034

[dorkulon]

8. Thanks for those links.

Pretty cheap stuff too! My old graphics card is AGP, so it won't fit, but I'm pretty sure now it's the PSU that's causing the sudden power off. Looks like I'll have to put another $80 or so into this beast. Not a total disaster I guess.

[ghostsofgiants]

10. I'll second Betty88's suggestion.

I've got a bigass 120mm heatpipe cooler plus 120mm fan on my processor, keeps it nice and cool. :7 A fan on the RAM can only help as well.

[dorkulon]

11. I do plan to follow those suggestions.

I meant to say I'll buy those fans AND a new psu. And then if it still does it, I'll take the whole thing and throw it in a wood-chipper!

[DS1]

6. I just built two similar systems

first I just have to ask - WHY would you scrape the heat compound off the oem fan? :spank:


My suggestion, or advice on that chipset, is that it takes a surprising amount of force to really get the heatsink and fan seated. Just be sure you're pushing the main fan down, then apply more pressure with your fingers to each corner the same way you tighten lug nuts. Don't forget to clean off the chip surface and the fan the next time to you apply heat compound. Only apply it to the chip or the heatsink. I thin layer is all you need, a common guideline is that you should just barely be able to see the writing on the chip surface under the compound. Try making a cardboard stencil mask, seating the chip, the applying a line of compound on one end, then with a very smooth and clean plastic card like a credit card wipe from one end to the other and leave it.

[dorkulon]

9. I've been amazed how much conflicting advice there is on thermal paste application out there.

I didn't mean to scrape it off, but was trying to follow instructions to leave a thin coating, just a little too thin I guess. Actually the last (and so far best) method I used was just to squirt a single line of paste perpendicular to the print on the cpu, and then just stick the heatsink on, relying on the pressure to spread the paste. This seems to have worked pretty well.

You're right about how tough it is to get the heatsink seated. It seems like no matter how hard I push, there's always one pin I can't get to "click" down in a satisfying way. Part of the problem is that the motherboard starts to bow as I push harder, and I am afraid to break it. Kind of annoying, really--I wouldn't have minded just screwing the darn thing in. It seems like they made this harder in an attempt to make it "simple."

[DS1]

12. The method I listed came with a third party heatsink

and it had the cardboard chip cutout. I figured if that's their way of making something idiot proof...

Agreed on the pressure, disconcerting.

I didn't bother with an aftermarket heatsink this time. I figured that Intel wouldn't be selling heatsinks incapable of running the chip in an operational state.

Any luck?

[CabalPowered]

13. A couple things

How big are the case fans and the heatsink fan? What's the rated cfm? What kind of a heat sink?

Secondly, did you use a removal and purifier compound before reapplying?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010

Also, use this..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

And follow the factory instructions on placement and volume..

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.html

Also ASUS probe is notoriously inaccurate. You want to check bios and core temp..

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

[dorkulon]

14. Thanks for that.

According to coretemp, at 100% load on both processors, core#0 doesn't exceed 65c, and core#1 doesn't exceed 60c.

So, while I probably will buy a better CPU cooler, I am settled on the PSU being the problem. On another forum, some suggested that while my wattage may be fine, 500w PSUs don't have enough amperage to handle the 9800gt. I don't know what that means, really, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation. Does anyone have a suggestion for a solid PSU? I'm guessing 600w will be enough, but I might go hog wild and buy a 750w just to avoid this recurring.

EDIT: I used isopropyl alcohol and q-tips to clean the cpu & heatsink before reapplying paste. I will buy the arctic stuff along with a new fan/sink.

[CabalPowered]

15. No problem

Those temps seem really high to me. I have a dual core and mine doesn't top 42c under full load. I idle around 32c. Does your vid card exhaust out a pci slot or into the case? I would highly recommend changing out your case fans. You want to look for the panaflo brand.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=panaflo&x=0&y=0

If it is the PS, you would see below rated voltages in the bios. IMO 500 watts should be sufficient to run your rig. But if you still find this to be the problem, I'd recommend Sparkle. Newegg doesn't carry their 700-750 but I'm pretty sure they make one in that range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000058&Description=sparkle&bop=And&Order=PRICED

For heat sinks, I've been pretty happy with scythe over the years. You can buy additional clips to attach another fan to the opposite end of the factory fan.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000574&Description=skythe&name=CPU%20Fans%20%26%20Heatsinks

[billyskank]

16. 65C is not worrisome for a Core 2 Duo cpu

First thing, I'd download CoreTemp:

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

Now, one word of warning: what CoreTemp actually measures is the difference between the cores' temperatures and the thermal shutoff temp. The program tries to turn this into an absolute temperature, but it isn't guaranteed to be accurate.

However, what it will tell you is how far away your CPU is from its shutoff temperature, which is what you really want to know.

If your CPU really is running too hot, best thing might be to replace the CPU cooler. For a Core 2 Duo I can't think of anything better to recommend than an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro. It's cheap and excellent at cooling a dual core CPU:

http://www.arctic-cooling.com/cpu2.php?idx=79

[dorkulon]

17. Thanks

I've figured out that while it may be running a little hot, it doesn't seem to be enough to be the problem. I think it's the PSU probably.

[dorkulon]

18. UPDATE 2

Well i used CoreTemp and it has the cpus maxing out at 65/61, and they are currently at 44/38. Not ideal, but I don't think it's an immediate concern (Shut-down temp is 100c, I think).

Using EVGA Precision I found that the 9800gt is at 71c, which doesn't look too bad.

I also remembered that the cooler is a (low-end) after market purchase, a Masscool 8W501B1M3G

At this point, I don't think heat is the problem. Neither the cpu nor the gfx card even have enough time to heat up before the shut-down, come to think of it.

So I'm going to go ahead and buy a new psu, a Corsair TX650W 650-Watt.

Seems like it'll do the trick. I'll update when it's installed, either to announce my success or to write my suicide note.