No funeral or other ritual?

[yasmina27]

My husband has made it clear that when he kicks he wants no viewing, no funeral of any kind.

He doesn't believe in any kind of afterlife whatsoever. I understand and respect that belief.

However, I have explicitly told him that viewings and services are for the living, not the person who died. If he died tomorrow, I would want 2 days of viewing (he has a large family, plus many friends and co-workers), followed by a non-religious ceremony of celebration of his life.

Do I go on agreeing with his wishes for now, and do what I want when applicable, or just do what he wants? It's not like I'm wishing anything on him - sorry to sound so gruesome. But he has some health issues that he refuses to get medical attention for, and, like it or not, it's probable that this is a situation I'll have to deal with sooner rather than later.

I have to be pragmatic and work this through in my own mind before I have to face it in reality.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. It might depend on his sense of humor...

You might consider telling him that after he's gone, you're going to party in his honor...

I agree that this sort of thing is for the living.

:shrug:

[yasmina27]

4. I've told him

that we could have a blow-out heathen party at his family's farm. He's OK with that. When one of his best friends died a few years ago, his wife held a kegger at a local fire hall after all the rigamarole (sp?).

[rug]

2. If he believes death is the end he shouldn't care one way or the other.

[yasmina27]

6. I've said that to him too.

[Haole Girl]

3. I have threatened to come back as a ghost and haunt my husband if he has a funeral...

and he knows I mean it.

I believe in honoring the wishes of deceased loved ones. But that's just me.

[yasmina27]

7. Yeah, he's said that too

but since I believe in the afterlife, I told him I would welcome his visits!

[undeterred]

5. I think you have to do what you can to persuade him

that this is something that you need. It is a very important part of the grieving and healing process, especially for those closest to the person who dies. If he wants no part in it, then you might have to stop talking about it with him for now.

My father had never expressed any wishes and he was an atheist. Everyone in my family has different beliefs. It was sort of understood that there would be a funeral and a service, but obvious that the fundamentalists in the family couldn't plan that. So, being a liberal Christian- I talked to my minister and told him enough about my father to give an appropriate eulogy for my father and service for the living. It wasn't something my father would have or could have planned, but I don't think he would have objected to it either.

I was so glad that I had a minister I knew could bury him with "ceremony" but without religion. If you don't know of someone like that, ask around when the time comes.

[dawgmom]

8. My BFF's family is like that

When her father and her brother died, they had nothing at all -- not even a memorial service. My observation was that it made the loss even more painful for them. The three or four days that you spend after the death hearing stories from friends, family are important, and an important part of the beginning -- and I mean the VERY beginning -- of coming to grips with the finality of it all. I'm like your husband, I don't want a funeral or a viewing, but a memorial service would be OK with me. It's for the living, after all.

Keep working on him to at least allow for a memorial service. If he disagrees, then I think his wishes should be respected -- but it sucks.

[fizzgig]

9. short answer: dead is dead

if he doesn't care, then do what feels best for you.

you are correct that any services are for the living. i would not want anything to prohibit anyone's mourning or grief. the mourners will do it on their own, so why not let them do it with those they love?

[arcadian]

10. Sometimes dead is better

[Forkboy]

33. heh

[yasmina27]

12. I agree

and as I said earlier, think that funerals are for the living and for living to cope with the loss.

Frankly, I don't think the dead give a shit. They're just glad to be "home".

[curse of greyface]

11. If he hasn't codified his wishes in a legal doc he is screwed.

In other words have the service you feel is appropriate.

[yasmina27]

13. What kind of ramifications could there be?

He doesn't have a will, just my name on all the insurance documents. Obviously, he can't change that after the fact.

[curse of greyface]

17. None...

unless you believe in horror movies. (This is a common plot starter)

[skygazer]

14. If he doesn't believe in an afterlife, he won't know if you do it or not

:evilgrin:

[davsand]

15. I used to joke that I wanted to be the bar for my final party.

It wasn't completely a joke, either. I figured they could set the cups, liquor, and mixers on top of the closed casket and then put the keg there at the head. Everybody was supposed to get absolutely drunk and tell stories. When the party was done, open up the casket, put all the empties in there and then cremate my dead ass.

Everybody gets one last party on me, and I keep stuff out of the landfill.

I also instructed my husband to fly low over the RNC convention and throw out my ashes when they all looked up. I figured I have been a pain their ass all my life I may as well go out as a cinder in their eyes.


Having said all that, I will tell you that I was a a funeral service just today for my aunt. It was a traditional Christian service and the minister spent the entire time talking about my aunt, "A Minister's Wife." He admitted he'd never met her, and that all he knew was she was a Christian lady. Pissed me off if you want the truth because she had a mind of her own and should have been granted an identity of her own in death--ya know?

If your husband feels he doesn't want a service of any kind, maybe he's got a point. Maybe he'd be ok with a big old drunken wake where everybody gets to tell stories. At least it'd be about him.


Laura

[Critters2]

21. I never understand why people get angry with clergy in these situations.

I mean, if she were a really active church member and that pastor didn't say much about the individual's qualities, that would be one thing. But, if the family hires a pastor who doesn't know the deceased, well, it's only fair that the pastor admit he didn't know. After all, he didn't. I always wonder why the family even bothers hiring a pastor in the first place. But to hire a pastor who never knew the deceased and then bitch because he didn't know the deceased, well, that's beyond rude.

[davsand]

30. That family gave him NOTHING to work with and THAT is what pissed me off.

You'll notice, my comment was about the lack of identity she was given in her own funeral service. I don't blame the minister, but I DO think this is a classic case of a funeral service that was done without much recognition of the person it was supposed to be honoring/celebrating.

It is not the minister's fault that he didn't know her--my aunt and uncle have not lived in this community for several years--it is a problem with that family that the ONLY thing they celebrated about that woman was WHO she had been married to.

We faced a similar situation when my Dad died--in that he was not part of any congregation for several years before he died. When we talked to the minister we told him about Dad and WHO he was. We told him about the sense of humor that ran thru EVERYTHING that Dad did. We told him about the kindness that was present in all my father's actions. We told him about the huge love of family and community that my dad had--along with providing any number of examples. Those were the things we wanted to celebrate about my dad--not just who he was married to--ya know?

I'll grant you, that minister yesterday was not exactly the most gifted orator I have ever heard, but his material was lousy due to the family's failing to give him anything of substance.

I'm sorry if you took my comments to be directed any other way, because that was not my intent.


Laura

[LeftyMom]

16. Viewings are creepy. Who wants their last memory of somebody to be a waxy corpse?

Maybe you can compromise on some sort of memorial event he finds suitable. Maybe a memorial dinner, or something like a wake, or a remembrance someplace outdoors that he liked.

I would not go against his wishes though- seems odd to celebrate a person's memory in a way they specifically objected to.

[vard28]

19. Delete dupe

oops

[vard28]

20. My grandmother used to say

"If they didn't send me flowers or visit me when I was ALIVE, they don't need to bother sending them or coming around when I'm DEAD!" Our family isn't big on the viewing, traditional funeral home activities. More than once I have gotten a bit pissy and replied, "No they DON'T look great, they look DEAD!" to someone after they've said the obligatory, "Oh my... didn't so-and-so look great?" Mind you I've tried to say this only when I can do it tactfully, and not directly to someone who would have their feelings hurt.

Everyone in our family has made their wishes clear ahead of time and so far, it has worked well.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. My relatives do old-fashioned Midwestern funerals, and that means

viewing the corpse. I've been to perhaps a dozen such funerals. The most recent one was my stepfather's, and I actually saw him within the hour after he died, lying in the nursing home bed, not to mention at the wake.

Honestly, it does NOT affect how I remember the deceased when I'm recalling events from their lives. I don't remember them as a waxy corpse unless I focus in on the funeral. Otherwise, I recall my stepfather's good nature, generosity, and incredible musical talent, or my grandmother's remarkable combination of contradictory character traits.

[Dangerously Amused]

18. I think The Golden Rule applies.

[Generic Brad]

22. Visitations and viewings are for the living

Once he's gone it's up to you to find the way that you will help you get through it. For you, it may be a visitation. For me, it would be making a pilgrimage to where we first met. I's different for everyone and there is no one right way.

[Joey Liberal]

23. I also want no funeral

Cremate me and spread my ashes someplace that I enjoyed. Play some kick ass classic rock n roll while doing it. That's it.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

24. Personally I think you should respect his wishes

It is my strong belief that you should respect the wishes of the dead even if they have no say in what you ultimately do

That having been said, you can tell him now that viewings and services can quite often bring closure and comfort to those whom he has left behind. When my mother passed away, I know that her funeral and the mourning rituals leading up to her funeral were a great source of comfort and closure for me and probably helped me come to terms with her departure from this world much more than if we had done nothing following her passing. When my dad's best friend passed away and his widow opted not to have a funeral service, I know that my Dad felt very sad about not having the chance to pay his last respects to his friend

[emilyg]

25. I believe in respecting wishes.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. Humor him and say you won't do anything.

Then when he kicks the bucket, do what you want.

I mean, if he believes there is nothing after life, it's not like he'd know or care, right?

[eyesroll]

27. In your shoes, I might have a memorial but I'd skip the viewing.

Celebrate his life--as you and others have said, those things are for the living.

However, think of a viewing in terms of bodily integrity. Yes, he'll be dead, but it's still his body. A two-day viewing seems somehow invasive of his privacy.

Think about it...we have the right, as living people, to decide whether others will use our body parts in organ transplants after we die. (Our next of kin makes the ultimate decision, but that little sticker on our drivers license carries great weight.) Our wishes regarding whether we'll be buried or cremated are usually honored, especially if we've pre-planned our funerals and paid for the cemetery plots or urns. Why should this be different?

[Truthiness Inspector]

28. Respect his wishes

Is this that hard? Do you want YOUR wishes respected?

I don't want a viewing either, and anyone who would cross that would be no friend.

Respect the wishes of the deceased person, after all, it was THAT PERSONS's life, not anybody else's.

[Iggo]

29. Atheist here. Non-believer in afterlife.

You can show your husband this if you want.

Dude. When we're gone, we're gone. It's dumb to try to control people from beyond the grave when we know there is no beyond the grave. What the living do after we're gone is none of our damn business, and you know it.

Or if you really wanna scare him, tell him you're flipping a coin to see whether to give his body to the cannibals or the necrophiliacs. ("Call it, Honey. Heads or tails?")

[datasuspect]

31. do like i did and donate the cadaver to a medical school

[NNadir]

32. He'll be dead and won't have any power in the matter. I want to be cut up into tissue

slides or dissected at a Medical School, or maybe end up as one of those skeletons hanging in a high school science classroom.

Failing that, I have always favored excarnation, but I think it's illegal.

But it will be my wife's choice, not mine. She has already said "No way!" Her idea is that I end up as air pollution. Sigh...

I have always found in life that it is the spouse who grieves the most, and thus I think whatever the spouse wants should be respected. My wife should do what she wants.

[billyskank]

34. I think you're right and that funerals are about the living left behind

Whether you believe in life after death or not, I fail to see either way that what happens to the dead body can affect the deceased in any way.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. if you don't respect his wishes when he is dead --

why bother respecting him now?

[Iggo]

37. And then there's that.

Of course, the way I read it he's not respecting her wishes either. Know'm say'n?

Anyway, it's their business, and I'm now out of it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. well....maybe

but HIS death and HIS life TRUMPS all her wishes don't you think? When it comes to her life and her death don't you think she will want her wishes to be honored?

I don't get this....there is marriage and there is compromise but, there is ONENESS and UNIQUE-NESS in all living things...right?

meh...no wonder I can't get the hang of relationships, marriage and dating and all that jazz. Some things are just not UP for discussion. This would be one of them for me. Of course, I dare anyone to find my body when I die :)

honesty and respect for one another are the first thing to go.

Playing games quickly takes it place.

but, you are right. in the end it is their business.....I appreciate the fact that she set it up for discussion. I know how it feels to lay your heart out here.

[jobycom]

36. Tell him you are having a memorial for him, body or not.

And that he won't be around to decide, so you and his family will make the decision. Since he doesn't believe in an afterlife, ask him why he cares or why he thinks it has anything to do with him.

Don't be mean, I'm just saying I'd do what I felt right and I wouldn't lie to him about it. Also, logic is always fun to use, even if no one listens to it. If he doesn't believe in an afterlife--I don't either--ask why he cares what happens after he dies.

Just an observation, but he needs counceling. He doesn't want treatment for possible fatal illnesses, and he doesn't want any memorial when he's gone. That seems like two possibilities to me. One, he is so afraid of death that he can't face it, so he pretends he doesn't care about funerals and doesn't get possible fatal diagnoses because then he would have to face his own mortality, or two, he feels so insecure and insignificant that he wants to die and wants to be ignored when he dies. Could be both. Either way, sounds like he's got a deep emotional problem that he's hiding behind a flippant denial.

[dropkickpa]

38. My orders to family: mulch

use/donate/sell all usable parts and mulch the rest. Absolutely NO viewing (Dropkid was traumatized by my grandfathers viewing when she was 3 and agrees with me that they are just fucking creepy), no burying unless done with no enbalming etc and a simple unfinished pine box, then everyone can get together, eat, and get drunk (it'll happen anyway, the whole family will be together, Dropkick family all in 1 place = drunken tomfoolery), and that's that. My dad and brothers have agreed to honor my wishes, especially for Dropkid's sake, and my mom just tells me such conversations are morbid.

[Sisaruus]

39. My mother, still alive, already held her own funeral

She and her two (at the time, alive) sisters jointly held their funerals about 5 years ago. Over 200 people attended - followed by a big catered barbeque.

On the other hand, we did nothing when my father died 20 years ago. A few weeks later, the very immediate family gathered off of Newport, RI to toss his ashes into the ocean - then we went to dinner at his favorite restaurant.

[mwooldri]

41. You can't stop memorial services. Even when you're dead.

Even if there's no funeral, people who cared deeply about someones' passing will get together and hold an impromptu memorial service. Even if it is around the pub for drinks. Even celebrities and public figures that pass away that insist on family only ceremonies find that public memorial ceremonies are held too - with or without the consent of the departed's family.

I suppose one could use the heartstring approach - "if you really cared for those around you, you'd do something to make your passing away easier for them to cope with". In essence, that's all a funeral is. It's a mechanism designed to help deal with the loss of a loved one.

I hope your husband relents somewhat - and gets to plan his passing on.

Mark.

[Skittles]

42. work on getting him to a doctor, not agonizing over his future demise

I mean, really

[siligut]

44. This is something I have kept to myself.

I don’t know if many know it, but Masons have a specific death ritual. Here’s what happened. My dad died, was cremated and didn’t want any sort of ceremony, but when my mom died, she said do what you need to. Well, my brother wanted a ceremony and their ashes were mixed, so they could be together.

My father was never a Mason; he rejected that sort of crap, however his old boss was. His old boss showed up at the ceremony. I was distracted by all of the friends of my parents, but I swear he took too long at the urn. I didn’t think of it until later, but I am still wondering.

I say, don’t do anything against your husband’s wishes, which is just wrong. Work with him; let him know it is how people get closure.

[LibertyLover]

45. That's what my mom wanted

She wanted to be cremated and thrown away. And I do mean that literally. Many times she would say just burn me up and through me down the drain. So, when she died I respected her wishes to a certain extent. She was cremated, but I did have her cremains "thrown away" in a wooded area. I had no viewing or wake or anything, strictly according to her request. Thankfully the family understood - and they were kind of tired of funerals having had 5 in the 18 months prior to her death - and they had heard her express herself on the subject on more than one occasion. To be honest, it wasn't that difficult. I knew that mom didn't want anything done for her. I did buy some of her favorite chocolates (Godiva) and eat them in her memory one day. She would have approved of that.

[AlCzervik]

46. those are his wishes, i would fulfill them.

that's a big deal imo and a matter of respect, if you did what you wanted it would the exact opposite of what he has told you he specifically wants.