Ugh... I am so desperate for work, I am comtemplating taking the MN bar exam...talk me down

[nadine_mn]

I have been out of work since 10/2007. Fortunately, my husband makes enough that with my smattering of unemployment we are still able to be ok (we aren't starving, most of our bills get pd etc).

I have been looking for work but unsuccessful.. I think its my personality: its a bit of Alan Shore (from Boston Legal) mixed with the Snapple Lady.

Long story short - I went to lawschool because my mom told me to (seriously brainwashed, everyday of my life she introduced me as her daughter who was going to be a lawyer). It was such a fixed message in my head I never questioned it... until my last year of law school when faced with graduation I panicked, and sort of forgot to finish 1 class needed to graduate. Because, unlike college, once you start law school you have to finish within 6 yrs or start all over, I finally got the courage to finish my one class and graduate. I took the Iowa bar exam (that's where I went to school) that summer and passed. That fall we moved to my home state of MN.

So I have never practiced law, therefore no reciprocity from Iowa to MN, I would have to take the bar all over again.

From 2000-2007 I have worked as a victim advocate for children, domestic violence victims, and elder abuse victims and loved it. Now I am not sure what to do. I want to work in the non-profit sector that is for sure, but jobs are scarce and I am either under or over qualified.

So that pesky law degree has been nagging me. My husband, bless his heart, has been very understanding and has not pushed me to do anything I don't want to do. But my self-esteem is in the tank, and I am afraid he is going to tire of being understanding.

In the past I have brushed off taking the bar because its expensive ($650 for the exam and at least that for the review classes, which I will need). But we got our tax refund back and I could ask a relative for some help (oddly enough not my mom).

Here are my whiny reasons not to do it:
Because I have been admitted in another state, my application is more complicated, I have to hunt down all my stuff from Iowa.
I have to provide info from our bankruptcy and all the past due credit issues (that is just painful)
I have to find 3 people to vouch for my character... ha ha ha not so easy because I have become a bit of a recluse.

Here is my deep dark secret reason for not doing it:
What if I suck as an attorney? I mean I can always get a job where the degree is required but I won't have actual clients whose lives I could unintentionally fuck up like I have my own. But you know those 'go-getter' lawyer types you see - smart, organized, detail-orientated, mature, did I mention smart? That is so not me.

I am laid back - unless you fuck with someone I care about... made me great as a victim advocate... I had no fear and fought hard to get cases prosecuted that normally would have been ignored. I happily stepped on a lot of toes - cops, lawyers, health care professionals - in my last job as Director of Elder Justice services (the only progam in the state that worked with elder abuse victims... a program I developed and was very proud of). That urge to fight for the little guy also made act without thinking sometimes, and you get some slack as an advocate but good lord, as an attorney I could not ever be so reckless. I could really wreck a client's life.


so you see, when not ripping some abuser a new one, or holding the hand of a victim (which I loved - I mean not that they were victims - that sucked- but being there, listening sometimes for hours, or just being there to give them a hug if needed), I am a goof.

I guess my fear is that I will have to grow up, no more excuses... how lame is that for a fear?

I don't know if I am more afraid of failing or succeeding.

So any of you who are still reading this... please give me some advice.

thanks!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Sweetheart,

if you wanted to practice law, you'd be practicing law.

It's that simple.

I've been a lawyer since 1976 - cripes, that was a long time ago - and I practiced full-time until ten years ago, when a literary agent sold my first novel to a big publisher. I was leaving the law anyway, having run out of steam, so the timing was excellent for me.

But all my old pals and colleagues stayed. And I'll tell you a secret: they hated it. They found themselves locked into a profession that had had a certain degree of honor attached to it when we all started out (we watched the Watergate hearings while preparing for the end of our first year exams), but which deteriorated in any number of ways since then.

This week, so far, I've heard from two classmates who are losing their jobs. The clients just aren't there and so my friends are getting their nice retirement packages early. But they're still relatively young, and certainly not ready to quit working, even though they no longer lover their work.

You could go ahead and get your MN license and not find a job. I don't think the job market for new lawyers is going to be any hotter for you there than it is in other places. Also, you're 'way behind on case law and regulations, and you'd have however many years since you graduated to catch up on, an onerous task at best.

The brutal truth is that law firms are going to hire brand-new graduates who still have that law school crackle about them, the study habits, the discipline, the drive, the energy.

Here's what I think: your mother's voice is ringing in your head louder than you know. It didn't end when you passed the IA bar - that was just the beginning. Mothers' voices have a way of remaining, and touching more than what is obvious; consider the subliminal.

Did she say "My daughter's going to be a law student," or did she say "My daughter's going to be a lawyer"? Consider that question carefully. I think you'll find that there's still that script running in your head.

You sound like you're considering the law because it seems like the next thing you're supposed to do. I can heartily advise against doing it for that reason - I got married once for that very reason, and it wasn't a good idea. Not at all.

I hope maybe a bit of this has been helpful. For what it's worth, you can say "Tangerine doesn't know what she's talking about," and odds are you'd be right.

Whatever you do, I wish you all the luck in the world.

[nadine_mn]

4. Tangerine,,, thank you

I had a therapist tell me years ago that I was doing what it took many years to do and I should be proud. That is, doing what I loved (advocate work) rather than doing what was expected.

Then 2 years ago, hubby and I went to a marriage counselor who literally yelled at me for being selfish.. she said something like how dare I not work as an attorney and earn more money to help out our debt. She then railed at my husband for his 'faults' and ended up calling us sloppy and lazy. Well, we were closer as a result of that... we thought she was crazy and we were fine.

But part of me still is nagging about that I have a wasted education. And now in this economic crapfest, I feel like I should be using everything I have. My mom wanted me to be a lawyer, because that is what she wanted. She blames me (oh yes, she was actually said it was my fault she didn't go to college and then lawschool, because if she hadn't had me, she would have), I know in my head thats crazy but you know it still sticks with you.

I like law, actually love it, and loved law school. But the year I spent clerking for an attorney.. made me hate it.

Thank you for input and insight, I do appreciate it.

[huskerlaw]

2. Before you do anything...

get a feel for the employment situation that the lawyers are in in your area. I'm a lawyer, and I work at a law school in Los Angeles, and out here, there would be no job for someone like you who just took the bar. I don't mean that as an affront to you in any way. The law firms out here are firing attorneys by the hundreds. Our law students can't get INTERVIEWS (let alone jobs) for the summer.

If Minnesota's economy is anything like ours (and I'm guessing it is), taking the bar would be throwing away hundreds of dollars. I hate to be so negative, but before you sink that much time and money into something that you're not even sure you want, make sure there's a job potential at the end of it.

[nadine_mn]

5. I hear ya and I am not thinking of working for a firm

oh no
but there have been at least 2 jobs that I have wanted (one was working in environmental law for a non-profit) that required admission to the bar. That's the only reason I have been thinking of it... and ya I know, my lack of experience is a drawback.

[crispini]

11. At least two jobs you *wanted* and couldn't apply for that require the bar?

I think you have your answer right there. Your OP is all about the law jobs you DON'T want to do. If the bar will bring you jobs that you DO want to do, you have to cnsider it.

I'm getting an awful lot of "fear of failure" from your OP. Don't let that stop you from taking a necessary next step, if it is.

[crimsonblue]

3. don't do it..

your list of reasons not to do it is too long.

[Flaxbee]

6. Listen to Tangerine LaBamba. She knows what she's talking about

I, too, had a mother who pushed me into law school -- not quite so blatantly, but I was pushed because I was good at a few things that seemed to 'fit' with being a lawyer, even though my family didn't take my temperament into account. Just the smarts, but not that being a lawyer would be a terrible fit. So, I went to law school, practiced for 6+ years in big firms in LA, NY, and DC, and never once did I *EVER* enjoy what I was doing.

I liked law school well enough, and found some great friends in my colleagues (though my best friend is a law librarian, now a lawyer), but HATED the work. I didn't take into account my desire to live a low-stress life, and man, corporate law in NYC is anything but low stress.

But the JD can be valuable, even though this market sucks big time. Maybe administrator or office manager for a law firm. Maybe a recruiter for a law firm. Maybe you take online librarian courses (just ask here - you'll find a lot of help; I considered it at one time and still think about it) and work in a law firm as a librarian.

If you could take the exam (you have to consider the expense) you could also say you passed the bar, but if you aren't going to be a lawyer, why bother? My friend who is the law librarian (though those jobs are tight now, too; staff usually gets slashed before attorneys) went to law school but never passed the bar; but he needed the legal knowledge to do his job.

There are tons of eager law grads right now - and the market is so tight that competition is super fierce. I looked to go back to law office administration a while back, and could have probably gotten a job if the market hadn't started to tank, but I never even considered going back into legal practice. TLB says you don't have current skills, and she's right. I don't, either, and it makes going back in to the field really, really hard, esp. with the aforementioned eager grads vying for work.

I've been where you are - trying to figure out how to make my education work for me. I still don't have an answer, maybe I never will. But think long and hard before you do it - life is too short to do something that makes you miserable and seriously stressed every day. Some jobs are miserable, and you do them to pay the bills, but miserable and stressed almost beyond the breaking point is not worth it.

I also had the "what if I'm not good enough?" worries, but if you like what you're doing, you work to get better and I never had that desire as an attorney. It doesn't sound like you do, either.

Would passing the bar help you get other advocacy jobs? You seemed to like the one you had. Can you talk to anyone at your law school about career options? Even though you've been out for a while, most schools maintain a network of grads and other people who are happy to give advice.

I'm tired, and rambling a bit, but - think about it. Think about other options where your advocacy skills can help.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. Don't do it, Girlfriend.

Tangerine is right. She is a very wise woman.

I graduated from law school in 1984. My dad had been an attorney. Mom had been his legal secretary, so I literally grew up in a law office. I did his typing after I got old enough (and Mom went on strike), and went to court reporting school and got my Associate's degree. Made straight A's in court reporting (12 years of piano lessons HELPED!).

Finished up my bachelor's degree in biology in '79. Went to law school at night for five years, while working full time as a court reporter. Extremely stressful.

I have never been able to get a job as a paralegal or legal assistant, even though I have a fabulous background for it. I was burned out on court before I was forty. I stopped doing the court reporting in '96. It dried up and I couldn't handle the stress any more.

I took the Texas bar exam three times. Never passed it. Was just a couple of points short.

Don't spend the time or the effort or the money. I don't think passing the bar is the answer to employment. In fact, I quit looking because it wasn't worth the effort.I did not panic during exams. I never found out what my problem was although my health probably was the main reason. My health was not optimum and I didn't figure it out until several years later.

I'm convinced that to get a lawyer job, even when the economy was good, was dependent on who you know. I checked with all my alleged friends from law school, who whined that they "just could not do anything" to give me a job at their firms. Of course, they were partners pulling down over a million a year in profits, but hey---they just couldn't do anything for me.

I got bitter because I was convinced that I was sold a big lie -- all that time and effort and money, and it did nothing for my job prospects.

I'm glad I have the law degree, for my own useful knowledge, but as far as a job -- NOPE.


Don't waste your time on it. It's not your dream, it's your mother's. I thought I had to be the "son" who took over the family business, since I had one sister and no brothers.

I hope that in our new economy that all sorts of talents will be appreciated, including scientific research and the arts. I would much rather make my living as an artist and musician, because that is what I truly am. It hasn't happened yet, but we are all hoping for a more balanced society soon.

So what is your dream? Being a victims' advocate sounds like it's quite fulfilling already.

Ask yourself if that is enough for you to be content.

Ask (your gut) and you shall receive (the answer).


This episode of "TALK ME DOWN" brought to you by several overeducated fools at DU. :D


:loveya:

[elleng]

8. TAKE the exam.

I did.

It opens new opportunities for you, and enables you to help more of the people you want to help.

AND YOU LOVE THE LAW! So do I! Could spend forever in law libraries!!!

[old mark]

9. nadine, do it - you can always do something else after you get your

license.
I have a relative by marriage who is a lawyer who does not practice. He does some sort of behind the scenes shit for a big corporation in Philly and makes a good living as far as I know.I have a lot of lawyers and MD's in my family and they all seem a little over-driven if you know what I mean, but they seem to enjoy it.
I am sure there will be opportunities for you as a practicing attorney that will give you personal satisfaction and put bucks in your pocket, and I'm sure the fear will subside after a short while - you seem to fear letting people down - God! A lawyer with integrity! You'll make a fortune! Or at least headlines.
Good luck.
mark

[MajorChode]

10. What about government entities?

Just about every larger government entity has attorneys in every state. Some federal agencies only require that you passed the bar exam in one state, so you might be able to work as an attorney for a federal agency on your Iowa bar exam.

The EEOC might be something to consider.