The big question - stick with Mac or go back to PC?

[Initech]

I'm about due for an upgrade and looking to get a new laptop. I can get a refurbished Macbook Pro or a new HP 17" laptop with Blu-ray for about the same price. What say you DU?

[Pierre.Suave]

1. I voted Macbook Prp

even though I have no idea what a Macbook Prp is, it is a mac product, so I say go for it...

:P

[Initech]

2. Stupid iphone keyboard!

I fixed the typo.

[Pierre.Suave]

5. How dare you bemoan the dear little iPhone...

you made mine cry a bit, and for that I demand an apology...

:P

edit: I have the new unibody Macbook Pro and it is simply the most awesome, best, and most perfect computer EVER!

[Initech]

7. Heh, just kidding, I love my iPhone.

I'm seriously considering getting the previous gen Macbook Pro since I can get a refurb model for less than $2k (slightly over $2k with Apple protection plan warranty and extra 2GB of RAM).

[Pierre.Suave]

11. Geezus

I bet you can get an even better deal that that from someone other than apple.

Infact, I know where you can get a BRAND NEW ONE for less than 2k total, unless your state charges sales tax on online sales.

I paid 1699.00 for mine after rebate and not a penny more on taxes.

[Pierre.Suave]

19. I just checked the price

brand spanking new Macbook Pro, out the door price, total and complete, $1,759.xx

http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Home.htm

[Initech]

26. Holy shit!

Its still about $2K either way with the Applecare Protection plan.

[Pierre.Suave]

31. yeah

with Applecare it is, but still hundreds cheaper than a new one from apple. Also I buy ALL my macs from Macconnection, they are a really great company.

edit: also, you can buy applecare anytime during the 1 year standard warranty period if you want to save a bit of cash upfront.

[leeroysphitz]

22. It's shiny and it's made by Apple...

:p

[bif]

3. I'm using a MacBook Pro right now and love it

I'd never buy a PC. I've been a Mac user for more than a dozen years and have never had a virus.

[Kutjara]

4. No reason to switch back to Windows unless...

...you work in an environment that requires it to run some proprietary application or other. Even then, you can run Windows alongside MacOS on the MacBook Pro if you really need to. The Mac operating system is more stable, easier to use, and currently more secure than Windows.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

6. My thoughts exactly! n/t

[Initech]

8. Yeah, I'm thinking of doing that.

Since now you can Windows, I might just get a Windows XP license (seriously, fuck Vista) and use the dual-boot feature.

[av8rdave]

16. That's exactly what I did with my MacBook

I put a small partition on the hard drive and installed XP using Boot Camp. It works flawlessly. Incidentally, you'll never see Windows run as fast as it does on one of the newer MacBooks. Granted, I don't have much running under Windows. I have Firefox, an antivirus program, and the one lousy piece of code I need for work that only runs under Windows.

I switched to Mac after years and years of putting up with PCs. I will never go back. All my 20 years with Microsoft based computers did was make me loath Microsoft. Mrs. Av8rdave even remarked some time ago that she never hears me swearing at the computer any more, and I don't seem to waste hours of my time troubleshooting.

A friend of mine asked me recently about how I felt about switching to the Mac. One of the things I suggested he do was to go to any news stand or magazine store and look at the computer section. Mac World and Mac Life have headlines about cool applications for the Mac and cool things you can do with it. The PC magazine headlines all deal with how to troubleshoot windows, how to recover from crashes, how to get your PC running fast again, Windows tips and workarounds, etc., etc., etc.

[Deja Q]

10. No platform is immune, period.

Macs are often safer because there is no potential profit for hackers. That is changing given the increased popularity of the Mac.

Google "Mac virus" or "Mac trojan". More of them about these days.

Or even
http://blog.trendmicro.com/backdoor-busts-the-mac-myth/

These will only worsen with time.

Regardless of platform, have a quality antivirus/internet security package installed. For PCs, Kaspersky Internet Security is (by far) the best. Trying to be cognizant of psychological tricks helps as well.

Use Firefox with Adblock and NoScript, or equivalent. And don't blindly allow websites unfettered access.

And for any platform, avoid Norton/Symantec. They devolved into garbage YEARS ago and I'm amazed they are still in business.


Forgot to add: The Large Hadron Collider project, built on a large Linux server cluster, was hacked into as well. Google it. People think the LHC will create a black hole destroying all, but I'm more inclined to trust a gaggle of scientists over a gaggle of pathetic little hackers, any day of the week.

[Mr. Blonde]

23. Security by Obscurity isn't totally accurate

People have written viruses for iPods hacked to run Linux. There was a virus written to take advantage of an exploit that only existed on 20K computers. Macs are a comparatively massive target.

Macs are based on Unix which is inherently more secure than Windows. Not it isn't immune, but you start out on much higher ground. There are currently still no viruses in the wild. Everything else takes positive action on the part of the user to install and even those are pretty unlikely. Follow the commandment "don't be dumb" and most people will be ok.

Macs are not immune, but that is not due to being a smaller target.

[Pierre.Suave]

24. Exactly

[GoneOffShore]

44. Just googled Mac Trojan as you suggested

The most recent serious one affects users of pirated and cracked versions of Photoshop CS4 downloaded from bit torrent.

New Variant of Mac Trojan Horse iServices
Found in Pirated Adobe Photoshop CS4

Exploit: OSX.Trojan.iServices.B Trojan Horse

Discovered: January 25, 2009

Risk: Serious

Description: Intego has discovered a new variant of the iServices Trojan horse that the company discovered on January 22, 2009. This new Trojan horse, OSX.Trojan.iServices.B, like the previous version, is found in pirated software distributed via BitTorrent trackers and other sites containing links to pirated software. OSX.Trojan.iServices.B Trojan horse is found bundled with copies of Adobe Photoshop CS4 for Mac. The actual Photoshop installer is clean, but the Trojan horse is found in a crack application that serializes the program.

More here - http://www.intego.com/news/ism0902.asp

It would appear that those who are most vulnerable are those folks who are keen to utilize file swapping sites.

This trojan is working its way around various P2P networks and with various packages as the vector for infections. The first version was discovered in copies of iWork 09, which was introduced at Macworld Expo earlier this month.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2864

[Deja Q]

9. What are the specs of each model?

[Initech]

27. This is what I'm looking at:

This is the Mac I'm looking at:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB166LL/A?mco=MjE0NjE5MA

This is the HP I'm looking at:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Performance+and+entertainment&series_name=dv6t_series

Customized model with:

- Vista Ultimate
- 2.53Ghz Core2Duo
- 4GB RAM
- 320 GB Hard Drive
- Blu-Ray

This one is the better deal as its $1859 out the door with extra AC, case, and 2 year accidental damage protection.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. I LOVE my MacBook Pro

Personally, I can't stand PCs.

[insanity]

13. BOTH!

If you have the Windows Disk already, consider dual-booting with BootCamp

[Deja Q]

14. If the Mac's CPU allows hardware virtualization, use Virtualbox for Mac instead.

Dual booting sucks. I played that game 16 years ago and finally got tired of it 9 years ago.

[av8rdave]

17. Has Virtualbox worked with all the Windows apps you've tried?

I would love to be able to delete the Windows partition. Seems such a waste for the one solitary Windows application I need.

[slutticus]

30. OSX + Bootcamp (WinXP) + VMWare Fusion = Best of both worlds

Deticated XP boot when I need intesive windows use....Virtual machine when I only need to pop into XP for a bit (which is most of the time).

It's awesome.

[av8rdave]

32. I've thought about doing the Fusion thing

I never need to do intensive Windows stuff anymore. Is there any impact on performance when you use Fusion? I'm concerned that it might slow down OSX.

Presently, I'm just running OSX with BootCamp and XP. It works great, but having to reboot into Windows is a pain.

[slutticus]

33. I haven't noticed any slowdown really. What processor and memory do you have?

If you noticed any performance issues, you could change the memory allocation settings depending on the level of usage for each OS, but I'm having no problems with 512MB for the virtual machine.

It's really easy to transfer files back and forth as well, just drag any file from (or to) the virtual window and it copies it over. Network sharing works great out of the box too.

I really only use XP for MS Project and sometimes Excel (Mac Excel is soooooo slow!). I also have a couple of programs that I use for work that are only available to windows.

Fusion would recognize your BC partition right out of the box so you wouldn't have to re-install windows.

[av8rdave]

34. thanks! I may just check that out

[Pierre.Suave]

18. It doesnt suck

and if you dont want to do it, you can run both at the same time with Parallels or VMware Fusion without any 3D GPU acceleration.

Anyway, I triple boot my Mac Pro, Mac OSX Leopard Server, Winblows Vista, and Ubuntu Linux.

[rcrush]

15. I'd like to learn a mac but I cant affoard to buy a new PC right ow

It doesnt look to hard but I've only used one like 3 times in my life. Where can you even get a good deal on a mac?

[av8rdave]

21. You can try these sites for deals

http://www.macmall.com

http://www.macconnection.com

Usually you can get a little off on the computers with them, but they (macmall in particular) often give some great deals on bundles - software/accessories if you buy them with the computer.

My MacBook wound up costing less than the Sony Vaio it replaced. Significantly less when you consider I didn't have to buy much software for it. Macs come with a lot of useful software already installed.

Learning the Mac is especially easy - there isn't much to learn. It's all pretty intuitive. If you want to take a look before you decide, go to http://www.apple.com/mac/ On the right side of the page (under "Find out how") click on Mac Basics. The presentation will give you a pretty good rundown on how the OS works and how to use it.

[begin_within]

20. Go to an Apple store and play around with the MacBook Pro for a while, and

that should make your decision a whole lot easier.

[Initech]

25. I have a Powerbook G4 that is a 2003 model.

I'm considering purchasing a refurbished 17" Macbook Pro (older generation with 2GB RAM, 200GB hard drive, Apple Superdrive, and 2.6Ghz Core2Duo) for $1799. With a 2GB RAM upgrade and the extended warranty it should come out to just a little over $2K. Not too bad.

[av8rdave]

29. If you can live with the 15" screen, you can get a current generation pro for less

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/macbookpro/

[Initech]

38. I'm using a 12" screen right now.

15 would be a HUUUUUUUUUGE improvement. 17 would be better but even 15 would be a huge improvement. Plus I want to get the AT&T Wireless Broadband card at some point so having that feature is necessary.

[begin_within]

36. But for 2K you can get a new Macbook Pro, but with a 15-inch screen

Only 2.4GHz but I don't think that's much of a handicap. Personally I think that would be a wiser purchase.... the latest and greatest versions of the software, but I guess it depends on how important that 17-inch screen is to you. So much great software comes pre-installed on a Mac that you hardly need anything else, unless it's a special-purpose application.

[Initech]

37. I want to get Adobe Creative Suite at some point.

But at $1800 that will not be any time soon.

[deucemagnet]

28. I always go for the inexpenive power of a PC.

Here's a hell of a deal from a Tiger Direct email.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4187624&sku=G180-17003

Specifications
Lifestyle: Gaming
Desktop Replacement

Condition: New

Operating Systems: Windows Vista Home Premium

Startup Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit

Optional Operating Systems: Microsoft® Windows® Vista Family (available separately)

Operating System Licenses Included: Microsoft® Windows® Vista Home Premium

Platform: Notebook PC

Expansion Ports: 1 - Express Card Slot/54

Display Type: Widescreen Ultrabright™ WUXGA TFT

Viewable Screen Size: 17"

Maximum Resolution: 1920 x 1200

Processor Brand: Intel

Processor Class: Core 2 Duo

Processor Type: Dual-Core

Processor Speed: 2.26GHz

Processor Number: P8400

Processor FSB: 1066MHz

Processor Cache: 3 MB L2 Cache

Additional Technologies: Intel Centrino 2 Mobile Technology

Memory Type: DDR3

Memory Size: 4GB

Memory Speed: PC3-8500

[Initech]

39. I dont like to buy cheap computers like that.

When I buy one I want to make damn certain that it runs the programs I intend to run on it, and that usually requires a bit of horsepower and hard drive space. Plus a lot of the computers sold at big-box places dont include backup software anymore, which pisses me off royally.

I like Tigerdirect, though. I just bought a 1TB hard drive from them.

[deucemagnet]

42. Wow, if you consider that cheap and underpowered, you have pretty high standards!

:wow:

[Initech]

47. Actuallly that is not bad at all.

So far my Mac has been pretty good - had it since 2003, only needed to replace the main battery. I had a couple of parts crap out on me but they replaced them at no charge.

The only thing is I hate Vista, I'd need to get a Windows XP license if I got that.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Mr. Bones uses a Mac at work, regrets getting a PC for home.

He has had a lot of trouble with his PC. I have no problems with my iBook. We both started out running DOS on PCs back in the old days but now we much prefer Macs.

YMMV

[NewJeffCT]

40. I've had shitty luck with Apple products in general

My old iMac died a few months after the warranty expired - it was about 18 months old. Seemed like a decent computer, but I'm a heavy user of Excel and found Excel for my PC better than Excel for the Mac.

Had 4 iPods die within a year as well.

so, I would recommend getting the HP, or similar.

[Orrex]

41. Go with Mac like all the other lemmings

:popcorn:

[leeroysphitz]

45. But Mac users are non conformists.

Just like all the kids wearing black trench coats in the eighties...

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[Orrex]

46. 'I command you all to think independently,' Steve Jobs thundered from the podium.

"We do!" roared the crowd.

[Lionel Mandrake]

43. Mac OS X good; Vista bad.

Me not like slow Vista Resource Hog. Use only if software won't run on Mac. Ugh.

[pokerfan]

48. I would buy the HP (most bang for the buck)

and if you can't stand Windoze (happy XP user here), simply install Ubuntu.

The very first thing (before you even take it online) to do with a new PC is to wipe the hard drive. The damned things tend to come preloaded with adware and spyware and other crap you don't need. That crap is the price you pay for the low cost. And even if you decide to keep the OS, there are terrific freeware options for everything else:

Firefox instead of Internet Explorer
Open Office instead of Office
VLC Media Player instead of Windows Media Player
FoxIt PDF Reader instead of Adobe
AVG / Ad-Aware / Spybot / ZoneAlarm / CCleaner instead of Norton or whatever your machine comes with.

[NYC_SKP]

50. Of course you can get all those things on a mac. And the new Safari for a PC.

Safari opens pdfs in the browser, I love that.

The new Safari is pretty slick, available for mac or pc.







http://www.apple.com/safari/

[pokerfan]

51. Of course

My point is that one can buy a PC at what is essentially a discounted price because the manufacturers are paid to load crap on their systems. Buy the more powerful system at a discounted price, delete the crapware, install the OS and software of your choice and you are good to go. At a fraction of the price.

[NYC_SKP]

52. You're right about the crap, clear the HD, but I disagree about the speed and value.

Working on a mac laptop is so easy, they're so well designed. Thinkpads and Tecras are also good, but they're high end pcs.

And in my experience, a lower speed processor in a mac is as fast as a faster speed PC because of the OS.

To save money, pc's are the choice, but I think the quality is so much better with macs that it's worth it.

I have both.

[pokerfan]

54. It's pretty much user dependant

Hardware-wise, they are pretty much equivalent.

If you don't mind getting a little involved in maintaining the machine while saving some bucks, the PC is definitely the way to go.

If money is no object and you don't want to bothered with all that nitty-gritty stuff, go with the Mac.

[NYC_SKP]

49. You need to get a Mac, either MacBook or MacBook pro.

I've had them all. I've had iBooks and three powerbooks, I now have a black MacBook, and a MacBook Air (don't get the Air).

MBPs are sweet and a little faster but the MB is pretty substantial.

You can't compare processor speeds between PCs and Macs because the OS will make up for the differences.

Whatever you do, get AppleCare, three years, the best coverage around. They even replace batteries.

:thumbsup:

PS, Also have Toshiba and Sony PC laptops. Just get the mac with AppleCare.

[Lucian]

53. The thing that really annoys me with the Macbook Pro...

is that the battery cannot be taken out. If you need a new one, you have to send out your computer to get a new one.