If only this holiday were used to teach some history about Ireland...

[redqueen]

instead of just being about wearing green and celebrating this vague idea of Ireland that most seem to have.

It's a beautiful country with a very rich history, despite much of that history being intentionally and brutally erased.

Someday I'd love to visit there... and I will.

[NJmaverick]

1. Here is a helpful educational video

:hi:

http://evilchili.com/mediaview/3871/Ireland_-_Family_Guy

[arcadian]

2. The Irish discovered America!!!!

[geardaddy]

11. I thought the Native Americans did.

[arcadian]

19. The Irish helped!!!

[no name no slogan]

68. Screw you. Everybody knows it was the Norse

Norse kittens, to be precise

[geardaddy]

87. Ahhh video proof.

:D

[DemBones DemBones]

78. St. Brendan and friends in leather boats.

Small leather boats.

[Critters2]

3. We're not in Ireland.

Maybe you are, but Von Steuben Day isn't used to teach German history, Pulaski Day isn't used to teach Polish history, and the Scots don't even have a day.

But then, we aren't in any of those countries, either.

[redqueen]

6. How about Cinco de Mayo?

Should we stop learning about Mexico on that day?

I know it suits you to bring up obscure holidays that very few in this country celebrate, but please.

[Critters2]

7. Around here, that's just another drinking day, too.

I don't know of any educational activities here on Cinco de Mayo. Lots of specials on Dos Equis, though.

[redqueen]

8. Check out a school sometime.

They learn things there. Sometimes even things about other countries.

Bye now.

[Critters2]

10. Maybe they learn things about Ireland on St. Patrick's Day, too.

But mostly, they're both drinkin' days.

[redqueen]

13. If so, it's obviously not nearly enough. (nt)

[tigereye]

22. actually a lot of folks go to Mass on St. Pat's -

in Ireland it's a feast day, not a drinking day.



But it's not that big a deal to me, and I'm pretty Irish. Nothing wrong with the celebration aspect.

[XemaSab]

25. What month is "Equis" in American?

:shrug:

[Critters2]

30. "Dos Equis", literally 2 Xs, is a Mexican beer. nt

[XemaSab]

34. So they celebrate the liberation of the breweries on 2/10?

Cool! :toast:

[geardaddy]

9. The Scots do have a day.

St. Andrew's Day.

geezus

[Critters2]

In what cities in the US is this celebrated?

Do they turn their rivers blue? I guess I missed that.

[geardaddy]

You wear red on St. Andrews day.

And it's celebrated by Scottish societies all over the US and Canada. Sure, it's not as big as St. Patrick's Day, but to say the Scots or any other ethnic group doesn't have their "own" day is just being intentionally ignorant.

[Critters2]

18. It's not ignorant to say I didn't even know about this day,

and I'm more Scots than anything. IF it were a big deal in this country, I'd know about it. I don't even know when it is. And somehow that's my fault?

[geardaddy]

21. If you're Scots, then why don't you know about the day?

Fine if you didn't know. But to declare that the Scots don't have a day is just stupid.

[Critters2]

23. They don't have a day that's celebrated in this country.

I know. I live in this country, have my whole life, and never heard of it. Can't say that about St. Patrick's Day.

[geardaddy]

24. Tell that to my Scottish-American friends

that celebrate it

[Critters2]

28. I'm 3/4 quarters Scots or Scots-Irish.

No one I know celebrates it. No one.

I guess we're just not being Scots right.

[geardaddy]

29. So, because you don't celebrate it...

It doesn't exist or other don't celebrate it?

[Critters2]

35. What the fuck is wrong with you?

My point was that other ethnic groups in this country don't have a day that's celebrated by the whole fucking country like St. Patrick's Day is. If St. Andrew's Day were, I'd know when the fuck it is. I don't. I don't get to go around on some day barking at people because they're not wearing blue. People don't insist they're actually Scots when they're not. No one from the Scottish government comes here and has a special meeting with the President, who brags that he's Scottish, on St. Andrew's Day.
Because, like me, most people don't know when the fuck it is.

But you know. So, congrats. You're a better Scot than me.

[skygazer]

39. You're not alone, Critters

I've never seen St. Andrew's Day on the calendar but St. Patrick's Day certainly is. Sometimes people like to go out of their way to be offended.

[Critters2]

47. Thank you.

What the hell is wrong with people?

[redqueen]

50. Who is is it that you think is going out of their way to be offended?

Just curious.

[skygazer]

64. Just about everyone in this thread

[redqueen]

66. You think?

OK

[geardaddy]

40. Steady on there

I agreed with you that those holidays aren't as big as St. Patrick's Day, but to claim that the Scots don't have a day, or it's not celebrated in this country is ridiculous, just because you don't know that it exists.

And I'm not Scottish at all.

[Critters2]

42. It exists in a few clubs somewhere?

Seriously, I don't know a living soul who celebrates it. And I have friends in the Central Illinois St. Andrew's Society. I know when their dance contest is, I know when their Highland Games are, but none of them have ever mentioned St. Andrew's Day is.

I tell them they're not doing it right.

[geardaddy]

44. So, because Critters says it doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist. Gotcha.

[Critters2]

46. Yeah. That's what I said.

Can you not read English?

My point, and I'll type slowly this time, was that it is not celebrated by the general populace as St. Patrick's Day is.

You're just trying to be obtuse. And I don't think you really need to try.

[geardaddy]

48. And I agreed with you.

Good bye.

[Seeking Serenity]

73. Trouble with St. Andrew's Day is that it's Nov. 30

smack dab in the middle of, and thus completely obscured by, "the holiday season."

:grr:

[DemBones DemBones]

77. Can't be helped. A saint's day is determined by

the date of death of the saint. That's why today is for the Irish Catholics and Thursday (St. Joseph's Day) is for the Italian Catholics, and 'tis a shame they're so close together.

[no name no slogan]

69. Burns Night is a big Scottish celebration, all over the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns_Night

January 25 every year

[Critters2]

85. The St. Andrew's Society here celebrates that.

I've been to their Burns Night dinner.

[KamaAina]

53. No, God does it for them, except in the Rust Belt

Do they turn their rivers blue?

:-)

edit: header

[tjwmason]

89. It's not celebrated very much in Scotland either - because of religion

Scotland went Presbyterian (after much to-ing and fro-ing with Episcopalianism), and therefore was not interested in keeping Saints' feast-days and other "popish" inventions. By contrast, in Ireland celebrating the nation's Patron Saint was perfectly natural.

It's not the Irish's fault that the Scots dumped their festival.

[redqueen]

12. I thought it was only freeper types who shunned learning

anything about other countries.

I've seen three so far today. Fucking shocking.

[Critters2]

14. Where the hell does anyone in this country carry on

about St. Andrew's Day as you have about St. Patrick's Day?

[LostinVA]

31. Lots of my friends in NC celebrate it

[Critters2]

43. Well, they're better Scots than me.

Congratulate them for me.

[LostinVA]

59. Why are you jumping on me -- I didn't say ANYTHING snarky to you

:wtf:

I know you ahve posted before that sometimes you just like to play a "Devil's Advocate," and I hope this is one of those times, because if not, I am not officially ticked off. I made a comment. That's frigging it.

Jesus.

[jmowreader]

84. The Sandhills of NC is packed with Scots

[no name no slogan]

72. Fuck that. It's SCOTCHTOBERFEST

Don't you watch TV? :D

[geardaddy]

75. lol

I forgot about that one!

[PVnRT]

17. So?

Your point is, what?

[Critters2]

20. Umm, that we're not in Ireland? nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. thats a very good point

[jmowreader]

83. The Scots don't have a day?

Ye never heard of Robert Burns Day?

[1gobluedem]

4. Me too

And I want to visit as well.

[Xipe Totec]

5. You mean like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=379x1078

Viva Irlanda!

[PVnRT]

15. Like most holidays like this one, it's an excuse for idiots to get drunk

I agree, and I'd like to see people educated about why exactly Mexicans celebrate Cinco de Mayo (no, it's not independence).

[AngryAmish]

16. God forbid someone have the least amount of fun...

jeez. Lighten up.

[redqueen]

33. I didn't say "NO FUN ALLOWED!", did I?

Lighten up yourself. Just because I'd like to see more information about the holiday and country shared, instead of it *just* being about having fun, doesn't mean I'm anti-fun.

:wtf:

[AngryAmish]

55. This reply proves, conclusively, that you are anti-fun.

[tigereye]

26. to be fair, a lot of seriously Irish folks in American do just that

dance, and drink and have a parade to celebrate their heritage. And these are folks who DO know a lot about Irish history and can lecture with the best of em.



I haven't been either, seriously, we need a tour.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

90. It's easy. Find an Irish Historian, ply him/her with green beer,

and the stories of Ireland will come out.

My story of Ireland ends with all the surviving potatos being exported to England. And surviving peasants being exported to Ellis Island.

No green beer for me yesterday, but I like the music.

:hi:

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. It is an amazing place

I got to go last year. I'd love to go back. I learned so much more about the history, and seeing it with your own eyes really impresses it into your heart the way a travel book just can't do. I hope you get to go someday :hi:

[geardaddy]

32. I've only been to Dublin.

I would like to see more of the countryside.

[redqueen]

37. I'd like to visit the pubs in Dublin...

maybe have a drink in the same ones that Joyce and Kavanagh and Swift frequented. And the Book of Kells, too.

But mostly I'd like to visit the country side. :)

[jobycom]

36. It would be nice if our schools were used to teach some history about anything.

Rather than used to further the state-building myths we use to justify war and excuse our own sins.

[redqueen]

38. And that goes for schools all over the world. (nt)

[skygazer]

41. No kidding

It's kind of absurd to expect kids to learn about Irish history when they don't know squat about American history. Except that "Columbus discovered America" and white Europeans did everything of any value.

[redqueen]

45. I'm not just talking about kids.

Though I do know that here children are taught about Mexico's battle with the French on Cinco de Mayo. Maybe that's just in Texas.


However, all that is beside the point, really. Adults could be curious...

Guess that's too much to expect, though.

[skygazer]

54. Well, personally I think holidays should serve some purpose besides getting drunk

Or having white sales, or selling cars. I personally love history but I've never really seen the Irish in America try to use the holiday as anything more than a day of drinking and parades.

Instead of people posting snarky things about how ignorant people here are about Irish history, maybe someone should post a thoughtful summary of what the Irish have experienced and endured. I know a bit about Irish history but not as much as I'd like.

Guess that's too much to expect, though.

[redqueen]

57. Imagine if you wrote that about Cinco de Mayo.

"I've never seen the Mexicans try to use the holiday as anything more than ..."

Anyway... I didn't intend for my OP to be snarky. It's sad.

As for educating people here... there has been PLENTY written in the past few days... but more than a few don't seem to be interested in reading it. I didn't mean here on DU. It's obvious by now who on DU cares to know, and who would rather stay ignorant.

[skygazer]

62. You're right - that was certainly worded poorly

Though I sell booze in California and I see a lot more white guys buying Corona and Cuervo on Cinco than I do Mexicans. I think Americans just like an excuse to drink.

I don't know - I think it is sad that people are having flamewars about St. Patrick's day. It's kind of surreal.

And now I have an urge to get some good books on Irish history.

[jobycom]

61. Even Mardi Gras? No Way!!

[skygazer]

63. Okay, good point

Mardi Gras is a special exception. :P

[jobycom]

56. Nah, I'd like to see them at least try.

There's a book called "How the Irish Saved Civilization," and the title almost always makes people giggle, because they have no clue that Ireland played any part in western history beyond leprechauns and green beer. That includes adults, even with a college educaton, sometimes.

[redqueen]

60. Nice example.

Thank you.

[Dr. Strange]

49. St. Patrick's Day, a history lesson from Dr. Strange

Saint Patrick's Day (Irish: Lá ’le Pádraig or Lá Fhéile Pádraig), colloquially St. Paddy's Day or simply Paddy's Day, is an annual feast day which celebrates Saint Patrick (circa AD 385–461), one of the patron saints of Ireland, and is generally celebrated on March 17.

The event commemorates the day when Saint Patrick drove U2 out of Ireland for not paying taxes. When Bono was asked by the Irish government when he was going to pay his taxes, his response was simply, "Sunday, buddy, Sunday*." When Sunday came and went with no payment, the government sent agents to Bono's residence. However, his mansion was empty, and apparently four escape pods had been recently jettisoned. The Irish government sent out their top agent, Saint Patrick, to find the singer and his bandmates. The escape pods were found at a local pub, and the band was inside performing. In a fit of rage, Saint Patrick kicked the microphones and speakers over, yelling, "You ain't shit!"
A scuffle ensued, and ultimately Saint Patrick drove the band straight out of the country, over the course of three days. The band's unwillingness to pay taxes turned many of their compatriots against them. Liam Neeson, a very famous Irish person, reportedly said, "God damn, life isn't fair! Canada gets Rush, and we're stuck with U2? Tell me God doesn't hate Ireland."

*Bono's response is often cited as the origin of his nickname, Sunday Bono.

[nomorenomore08]

71. *tears of laughter*

That may be the single most hilarious thing I've ever read on DU. Seriously! :rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

80. I'll be expecting a DUzy from the committee, then.

You hear that flvegan? My testicles demand it!

[TK421]

74. And U2 was cursed with a member called "The Edge"

[jobycom]

76. Ah, borders on brilliant, Doc.

Probably even crosses the border. :thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. pride month doesnt teach you gay history either. you have to care to want that knowledge

[redqueen]

65. Yes, you're right.

You can lead a horse to water, and all that.

Interestingly, my kids learned about Diwali last year. I thought that was pretty cool. :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. well i dont think anyone tries to lead horse to water in this case, it seems that green & beer

is the significance of the day

[SteppingRazor]

58. Sorry. Too busy drinking Guinness.

:beer:

[Beer Snob-50]

70. I think "Family Guy" did a great history of Ireland

they were a highly advanced civilization until someone discovered guiness and then they became rowdy drunkerds.

but my wife visited the country a couple of years ago and loved it there.

[Inchworm]

79. I tell kids it's about the snakes

Irish folk were skeert to leave the house because there were snakes everywhere!

Nutting but salt, some brisket and a few heads of cabbage. The potatos were gone! Noone would liked fish...

Then along came Ol' Pat... He ran off all the snakes so the locals could farm the rock and raise sheep...

Some of them had instruments and really honed their skill when couped up in the house sipping whiskey.

I wonder how he scared the snakes..?? You think that's where the Pied Piper came from? (asked a few times)

Naw, the Pied Piper played music only kids could hear.

Uh uh...

Yes huh...

hmm..

Ya think it was a flute thingy that only snakes could hear?

Could be.

Go away kid.

*gulp and giggle*

:toast:

[Pacifist Patriot]

81. I think teenagers could handle Cahill's work.

[RagAss]

82. Thanks redqueen !

[VermeerLives]

86. Read Thomas Cahill's "How the Irish Saved Civilization"

This is an excellent book by Thomas Cahill. I never really learned about Ireland growing up. However, Cahill's book is excellent place to start. It's not a comprehensive history of Eire by any means, but it honors the legacy of the Irish priests who copied the great books of Western civilization as the libraries were being destroyed.

[many a good man]

88. Black '47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVf2NCGkgTU

Oconnor Sinead
Famine lyrics
OK, I want to talk about Ireland
Specifically I want to talk about the "famine"
About the fact that there never really was one
There was no "famine"
See Irish people were only ALLOWED to eat potatoes
All of the other food
Meat fish vegetables
Were shipped out of the country under armed guard
To England while the Irish people starved
And then on the middle of all this
They gave us money not to teach our children Irish
And so we lost our history
And this is what I think is still hurting we
See we're like a child that's been battered
Has to drive itself out of it's head because it's frightened
Still feels all the painful feelings
But they lose contact with the memory
And this leads to massive self-destruction
ALCOHOLISM DRUG ADDICTION
All desperate attempts at running
And in it's worst form
Becomes actual killing
And if there ever is gonna be healing
There has to be remembering
And then grieving
So that there then can be forgiving
There has to be knowledge and understanding
An American army regulation
Says you mustn't kill more than 10% of a nation
'Cos to do so causes permanent "psychological damage"
It's not permanent but they didn't know that
Anyway during the supposed "famine"
We lost a lot more than 10% of a nation
Through deaths on land or on ships of emigration
But what finally broke us was not starvation
BUT IT'S USE IN THE CONTROLLING OF OUR EDUCATION
School go on about "Black 47"
On and on about "The terrible "famine""
But what they don't say is in truth
There really never was one
So let's take a look shall we
The highest statistics of child abuse in the EEC
And we say we're a Christian country
But we've lost contact with our history
See we used to worship God as a mother
We're sufferin from POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER
Look at all our old men in the pubs
Look at all our young people on drugs
We used to worship God as a mother
Now look at what we're doing to each other
We've even made killers of ourselves
The most child-like trusting people in the Universe
And this is what's wrong with us
Our history books THE PARENT FIGURES lied to us
I see the Irish
As a race like a child
That got itself bashed in the face
And if there ever is gonna be healing
There has to be remembering
And then grieving
So that there then can be FORGIVING
There has to be KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING