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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 07:57 PM
Original message
People are allergic to wheat?
I have never heard of this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_allergy

I find that sad given that I grew up here:


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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. My dear pokerfan...
It IS sad. Any allergy is, but to be allergic to something as common as wheat can really complicate your life.

I've known a few people with celiac disease, and once they figured out what the problem was, they felt so much better, of course.

That's a beautiful picture.

Is that Washington state? A lot of wheat is grown there.

:hi:
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woofless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Looks like the Palouse.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yep
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palouse">Palouse region of Washington State.

How's Firefox working out for you? Ready to make the jump to Linux?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks!
I LOVE me some Firefox!

Don't go getting me all confused with another operating system! :eyes:



:rofl:


:hi:

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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. But the penguin loves you!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. His love will just have to be unrequited!
:P

Honestly, I haven't even figured out all the ins and outs of Firefox yet...

I certainly don't want to take on another operating system under those conditions!

But still, I thank you...

:hug:

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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Unless you need Windoze
there's no reason not to try Linux. Reasons why Linux belongs on your desktop:

1.Cost -- Linux is free, including applications. Vista Home Premium and Ultimate cost hundreds of dollars, even when upgrading from Windows XP. Moving up to Office 2007 involves handing over another bundle of dollars.

2.Resources -- Even the most lavishly equipped Linux distros demand no more resources than Windows XP. Vista is obese requiring 2GB of RAM and 15GB of hard disk space, is grossly obese. Linux can fit on and even run from a CD.

3.Performance -- Linux worked faster on my Dell Inspiron Core Duo than XP, at least the way XP worked out of the box. After cleaning out the bloatware and trading McAfee's Abrams Tank for the lightweight NOD32, XP and Linux (with Guarddog and Clam-AV) perform at similar speed.

4.No Bloat -- Linux is free from adware, trialware, shovelware, and bloatware. Running Linux is like watching the public TV network.

5.Security -- Last year, 48,000 new virus signatures were documented for Windows, compared to 40 for Linux. Still, most distros come with firewalls and antivirus (AV) software. Programs like Guarddog and Clam-AV are free, of course.

6.Reliability -- The Blue Screen of Death doesn't exist in the Linux world. Linux systems, just like Unix and NetWare, can run for years without failure. Operating system crashes (called "kernel panics" in Linux) are rare - many Linux users have never seen a crash. ZDNet's test of Linux vs NT showed that Linux simply does not fail.

7.Dual booting -- The best Linux distros make dual booting a simple affair, along with the required disk partitioning (so you don't need to buy partitioning software). Windows on my Dell laptop is still intact after installing and uninstalling a dozen distros.

8.Installation -- Anyone who's done it once knows that installing Windows from scratch takes hours or even days by the time you get all your apps up and running. With Linux, it can take as little as half an hour to install the operating system, utilities, and a full set of applications. No registration or activation is required, no paperwork, and no excruciating pack drill.

9.Reinstalling the OS -- You can't just download an updated version of Windows. You have to use the CD that came with your PC and download all the patches Microsoft has issued since the CD was made. With Linux, you simply download the latest version of your distro (no questions asked) and, assuming your data files live in a separate disk partition, there's no need to reinstall them. You only need to re-install the extra programs you added to the ones that came with the distro.

10.Keeping track of software -- Like most Windows users, I have a shelf full of software CDs and keep a little book with serial numbers under my bed in case I have to reinstall the lot. With Linux, there are no serial numbers or passwords to lose or worry about. Not a single one.

11.No Registry – When Microsoft introduced the Registry in Windows 95, it was applauded as being a mechanism that brought order to the chaos of the Windows 3.X "ini" files. At the time, we had no idea that the Registry would be such a handicap and get in the way of effectively managing networks of Windows machines. The Registry makes managing a Windows machine complex and difficult and is known to be responsible for some reliability problems. In retrospect, the "ini" files were not so bad now that we've tasted the Registry. Linux is managed by simple, plain text, easy to troubleshoot, configuration files.

12.Software Updates -- Linux updates all the software on your system whenever updates are available online, including all applications programs. Microsoft does that for Windows software but you have to update each program you've added from other sources. That's about 60 on each of my PCs. More icing on the Linux cake is that it doesn't ask you to reboot after updates. XP nags you every ten minutes until you curse and reboot your machine. If you choose "custom install" to select only the updates you want, XP hounds you like a mangy neighborhood dog until you give in.

13.No Reboots – Some Windows configuration changes require a reboot. Reconfigure a Windows file server during the day and you impact everyone. This limits system maintenance to off hours or impacts productivity. Nearly all Linux configuration changes can be done with the system running, without affecting unrelated services and without having to reboot. Reconfigure a Linux server and users may not notice.

14.File Management – Even Microsoft's latest new versions of Windows use a file system that has fragmentation problems just like the early-1980s vintage DOS. A Windows file server must be defragged frequently. Linux uses different file systems that don't need defragging. NTFS was going to be replaced in Vista, but Microsoft's new file system didn't make the final cut. Instead, Vista does scheduled disk defragging by default, but the defrag utility is a sad affair.

15.Utilities -- The utilities supplied with Windows are pretty ordinary on the whole, that's why so many small software firms have made a nice living writing better ones. Linux programs are comparable with the best Windows freeware, from CD burners to photo managers, memory monitors and disk utilities. PDF conversion is built-in, both into OpenOffice Writer and into the DTP application Scribus. All you do is click a button on the task bar.

16.Support -- Linux is the best supported operating system of all time. The reason is the Internet. You can get help from tens of thousands of enthusiastic Linux users and programmers. Support is free - the answers you get come from people who are not paid to help you. You'll hear about solutions to your problems that include dumping what you have and replacing it with something better - advice that you don't hear from vendors of commercial software.

17.No SIDs – Cloning Windows systems is made more difficult by the SID (system identifier) that must be unique between machines. With Windows XP and its hardware-based licensing scheme, cloning systems becomes not only very difficult but illegal - according to Microsoft's licensing terms. Linux has no need for system identifiers. Each Linux machine is distinguished by its name and IP address. Both of these are easily modified and require no rebooting. Cloning Linux systems is dead simple.

18.No Licensing – Upgrading Windows software is more difficult than it should be because of licensing. The licensing schemes vary but the result is that you have to jump through hoops to install or upgrade software. Linux and its system programs have no license-enforcement mechanism. No hoops.

19.Privacy – Every few months or so it seems that there's yet another report of a Microsoft product that behaves in a way that raises concerns about our privacy. We don't have these concerns when we use Linux and Open Source software because functions that would violate our privacy would be detected when the code is scrutinized by an army of Linux enthusiasts.

20.GUI Optional – Windows carries its resource-intensive GUI baggage around at all times. Yet, some systems, such as web servers and file servers, do not need a GUI and don't benefit by it. The Linux GUI (X Window) is an optional subsystem that you can choose to use or not. Additionally, you can start and stop the GUI anytime you like without restarting the system or impacting any programs already running.

21.Control – With the Windows NTFS filesystem, users can easily hide files and whole directories from the system administrator. The administrator is left wondering about diminishing free disk space and almost powerless to do anything about it. Users can do this using normal permissions as well as NTFS streams. In contrast, the Linux system administrator always has an unobstructed view of the file system and is always in control.

22.Modular – Windows is a "one size fits all" operating system. You can use it for workstation or server applications - one application or many. The problem is that its size is always extra large and getting substantially larger with each new release. Keeping code size small and efficient is not a Microsoft concern given the number of Easter Eggs that have been discovered in Microsoft applications. Linux is small by comparison and has no Easter Eggs. You can easily reconfigure the Linux operating system to only include those services needed for your application. This reduces memory requirements, may improve performance, and generally keeps things simpler.

23.Multi-Platform – Windows is limited to Intel and Intel-compatible processors and only certain machine architectures such as PCs. In striking contrast, Linux and other Unix-compatible operating systems work on a wide variety of processors and machine architectures - from a Macintosh to a mainframe.

24.Open Protocols – Linux uses open protocols exclusively. There are no proprietary vendor protocols that try to lock you in to certain vendors and products. Monopolies need not exist in the Linux world.

25.Networking – Linux machines can access your NetWare file servers. Novell's eDirectory for Linux makes managing a large network of Linux machines downright simple. A Linux computer can act as a client and/or a server in a Microsoft Windows-based network. This includes a Windows peer-to-peer network as well as a domain-based network. A Linux machine can emulate a Windows server and many say that it does a better job of this than Windows. Linux also integrates with Macintosh networks . A Linux machine can provide print and file services to Macintosh clients via native Apple protocols.
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Wow!
So the at home user can just, what Google Linux and press the install button? :)
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Pretty much
It's incredibly easy these days. Download and burn a live CD. (Live CDs are useful to have around anyway.)

http://www.ubuntu.com
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Responses, in order to each point
1. You get it. Not a license that can be revoked whenever microsoft decides to end it. (SaaS, bloated TCO, et al)

2. yep

3. yep

4. Crapware is put into the windows PC to subsidize costs. They on computer news sites, seasoned writers will whine and whinny to get these removed by OEMs. THAT WILL NOT EVER HAPPEN, OR EXPECT TO PAY THE SAME PRICE AS A MAC... I sure as fuck wouldn't... I'd rather get a Mac...

5. Linux isn't as popular yet and no platform is genuinely secure. I tell the same thing to Mac zealots who say OS X is secure by default. Not quite in reality, they are...

6. true

7. true

8. The linux equivalent of "DLL Hell" - the wrong library version... not all linux app installs are as nimble as windows' either... OS X is better, but there is a slight inconsistency with some of their apps too

9. Assuming the host download site is valid... when I did Ubuntu 8.10, no problems... ditto for Fedora Core 10... SUSE Linux 11.1, however, had numerous problems, including a very eyebrow-raising issue regarding the hostname not being able to be set to my choice. I suspected foul play and immediately absconded.

10. Not yet. Remember, "free is not a business model" - until there's a paradigm shift, I will not use free the same way big companies currently do. People work shit hard to earn money. I will support them.

11. Wholly agreed.

12. The combined nature of open source and the GPL allow that. Nor do I like summary updates, for any platform. A new version might break an old app, and even with Ubuntu I had a couple apps that the managed app installer (I forgot its name, nor do I care any longer anyway) did not recognize OR update. Which included Cairo-Dock, and adding in its URL had Ubtuntu raising a potential security alert. Hey, shades of windows!!

13. Not true. Well, linux is a bit more robust, yes, but a video driver update will prompt a restart.

14. Well, NTFS was invented in the mid-80s after the Microsoft/IBM team-up for OS/2 broke down... and it's worse than FAT. But NTFS is not DOS-based. I know people prefer simple answers, but I prefer a reasonable amount of details: That way when Americans are told they're dumbed down, I can be an exception.

15. Arguably true.

16. Oh goody, more exploitation that most DUers would otherwise be angry at!

17. So Norton Ghost was committing illegal acts for an exorbitant cost all this time?

18. I already touched on licensing -- just think if MS pulls away the agreement and activates ye olde kill switch... companies would be paralyzed, with their IT management wondering "Huh? What's going on?"

19. Truism of everybody.

20. Good luck; more end users want brainless point'n'click shtick.

21. And with data privacy regulations (HIPAA, et al), sometimes administrators (like the one who absconded his job having locked out all the passwords, oops...) need to be kept out of private data too. Then again, sensitive data is offshored all the time so why would anyone truly care about your point 21?

22. That's because they hire increasingly incompetent people to slop their shit into a box. Vista was garbage, and their marketing hype will not convince me to get Bugbloat 7 at 50% off. But I digress; any platform, unregulated, will get big and bloaty. Apple keeps tightening and streamlining; I found it more snappier than even Ubuntu, on lesser hardware. (never mind vista shitsa). And 10.6 is said to really improve on things. In short, Apple seems to put in more control and qualified developers who are allowed the time to write and tighten up code. It's there for Linux, but its open source nature is suspect. (if virus makers can figure out closed- source Windows, you see, but now I digress again...)

23. Most Macs since 2006 also use the same Intel architecture... Before that they use the PowerPC (G4, G5...) and before that the Motorola 680x0 series, which IBM overlooked in place of the Intel 8088 for their original IBM PC -- they made a computer deliberately crippled in case it would overtake mainframes in popularity (distributed computing). if you mean MIPS, Alpha, PowerPC (RISC), I'm sure Linux is out there for those platforms too... I know IBM has a variant for its iSeries mainframe...

24. A plus, since people always beg and clamor for all using the same thing (which, BTW, introduces a big security risk. Homogeneity vs heterogeneity... something gets through the defenses, having a mix of platforms and structures makes malware spreading much more difficult. I thought people learned via Windows - being ubiquitous only increases the risk, exponentially...

25. Everyone can.

Oh, you did not mention peripheral compatibility... it's nowhere near as good as Windows, and OS X supports every device I've got. Even the newest Ubuntu did not support a few of mine... Looks like one of those happy-to-help not-really-sweatshop workers wasn't able to help us Epson scanner owners either... a five year old scanner, and Linux supports oodles of devices older than that scanner...



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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. A lot of people are. Which can cause quite a few problems when eating out.
When I worked at a pizza place my boss, whose son was allergic, tried experimenting with rice flour for the pizza crusts. Never did get it to work properly.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree it is surprising, given where I grew up, too.


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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I missed the Lind combine derby this year
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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have not one but two friends who are gluten intolerant.
Met them when I was in my first year at CU, and they were part of the large group of friends I spent a lot of time with back then. They were both great cooks, and let me tell ya - gluten-free food can be deeeeeelicious! :9
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. KO has celiac disease. He can't handle gluten.
So, it turns out, does Elisabeth Hasselbeck, a/k/a The Blonde Twit From The View; she is presently embroiled in a plagiarism controversy over her (?) recent book on the subject.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. So does Thom Hartmann
I've heard a health professional on a radio show saying that they are seeing more people unable to digest wheat, with problems ranging from intolerance to celiac disease.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. My youngest son is allergic to wheat, eggs, and nuts.
He had horrific reactions as a toddler until we figured out what was causing it. His tolerance for wheat seems to be increasing as he gets older, but he still has severe reactions to eggs and some nuts.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. eggs and nuts I've heard of
but the staff of life?
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. How did you figure it out?
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. A really good allergist and some really uncomfortable tests for a 2 year old.
Wheat allergies aren't the most common of allergies, but it's common enough that doctors do test for them in an allergy panel.

The doctors kept telling us that he had everything from digestive problems to eczema, and were trying to figure out his apparently random breathing problems. One day he was over at my mother in law's house while she was making cookies. She had just dumped the eggs into the bowl when he stuck his hand in. The contact with the uncooked raw egg made his entire arm turn bright red and swell up, and he started wheezing. My MIL recognized the anaphylactic shock symptoms and took him to the ER. The ER doctor confirmed the egg allergy, and our pediatrician referred us to a pediatric allergy specialist.

Once we found out what he was allergic to and eliminated those foods from his diet (lots of rice and soy based items instead), he became a normal and healthy toddler.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. I have a wheat sensitivity
as well as one to milk.

In practical terms, I can't eat it every day, more like 2 or 3 times during the week. And then I have to decide, what form? Bread? Pasta?

Usually I go without because on top of upsetting my tummy, it makes me hungry. :-(
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Same here -
I can't have pasta one evening and then bread the next day - it'll just kill my guts.

But, I have discovered that I can eat the cheapest, crappiest white bread - not Wonder, which is too elegant - as toast in the morning, a ritual I love, and I can tolerate it. The flour in that stuff has been so refined, I doubt it's recognizable as a wheat product by the time it's in the oven.

A great dietary aide, I would think, if you have a weight problem, but I don't, and it just sucks. Sorry you've got the same thing, but at least we can manage it.................

:hi:
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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Have you tried the 'sprouted grain' breads?
Have you tried the 'sprouted grain' breads like 'Ezekiel' and 'Alvarado St.'?

I ask because my wheat sensitivity is a lot like yours, and I can eat the sprouted grain breads fairly freely. Cheap, crappy white bread OTOH, has no appeal to me...:puke:

I love pasta enough to eat it once every week or two, but that's about my limit. And I can survive eating a (very) occasional sandwich on 'regular' bread when I have to, but I am a bit of a food-snob when it comes to the quality.

-app

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. No, I don't
it's that "hunger" thing. As if it doesn't satisfy me at all. Doesn't matter if it's sprouted or whole grain or not.

I've just about given up eating grains altogether due to this phenom. The tummy pains are bonus reminder.

And I'm told it's common with food sensitivities. They increase hunger. It is an odd sensation, eating but feeling disatisfied.
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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. bummer
Sorry to hear that you've got it even worse than I on this front.

Hope you enjoy meats and leafy greens (which I could happily live on, but I still eat grains since I can, and they are generally cheaper...)

-app
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. My old foster son has a wheat allergy. We had to shop at a health food store because so many foods
have some form of wheat in them.
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm one of those people...
Wheat gives me wicked anxiety, to the point of being non-functional some days.

I feel much better, not eating it...

But you're right, it pretty much sucks ass.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I will say this
Harvesting barley was one of the worst experiences of my life. Don't know if it's an alergy because it made everyone miserable but it made me want to want to scratch the inside of my throat.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
38. That does sound like an allergy
Wheat is one of the top eight allergens, which is why it is listed as an allergen on food labels. Barley isn't, which is why it isn't, which is a major pain in the ass for us celiacs, as it's in practically everything. Celiac disease is not an allergy, but an autoimmune disorder, meaning that if you ingest wheat, barley, barley malt, rye or contaminated oats (practically any oats), your body attacks itself. You should probably contact an allergist and see if you can be tested for a barley allergy. Could be serious business.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. It makes me so depressed
I feel like I have no will. Very distressing and those are days I don't do a whole lot either :P

:banghead:
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. hubby is...he could die
and almost did had he not have had an epi-pen


coded in the ER room
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
24. no.
people are allergic to gluten, which is found in wheat, among other things.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. no Hubby is allergic to specifically wheat
oats and squash


he goes into anaphylactic shock
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. which is completely different from gluten intolerance/celiac disease.
gluten intolerance really messes with the digestive system but I do not believe it causes
anaphylactic shock in the same way a true allergy would.

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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. very true...we follow the gluten free diet as it makes it easy to do
but it really sucks


and to be allergic to OATS makes it that much harder
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. I would go into depression if I couldn't eat oatmeal. nt
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. My MIL is allergic to anything wheat and/or gluten
It makes her diet very interesting.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. I am also unable to digest gluten, discovered it late in life
after a childhood of severe allergies, and adult mis-diagnoses of fibromyalgia.
Essentially, the 4 proteins in gluten were making my body unable to use any nutrients, thus I was hungry all the time, incredibly fatigued, and in much pain ( thus the fibro dx).
Stumbled across the gluten/celiac symptoms on line and stopped all wheat.
All symptoms eventually disappeared.
Also dairy intolerant, but that can be handled by enzymes.
Benefits of no wheat diet is 80% of grocery store aisles are skipped, since wheat is in nearly every processed food.
So I am eating 'plain" foods, much healthier. Lots of rice, vegetables, mexican dishes.
And one company makes quite good brown rice pasta. Yay.
I do not miss "flour" foods much, since I have quite severe reactions to any wheat.

A lot of adult celiac symptoms are still misdiagnosed, esp with chronic fatigue and fibro symptoms.

And Mr. D. is making a Linux puter for me, thank you pokerfan for all the good information!!!
:bounce:
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