A couple of points about racism..

[Roon]

When I used to clean houses for a living,I happened to see a contact card that said the client didn't want a black housekeeper.

The visiting nurse company that comes for my Grandmother,also have contact cards for patients that didn't want a black nurse.

Aren't these companies fueling racism by honoring these requests?

[hippywife]

1. I think they are.

It's always been my firm belief that the only way for racism to end is for people to be placed in situations where they need to work together towards accomplishing a common goal which would otherwise not be possible one without the other. :hi:

[Roon]

3. If I owned a company and a client didn't want a black employee

I would refuse to do business with them. Or it could be worse,it could be that racism is such a big problem that it wouldn't be cost effective to refuse doing business with a racist. Damn, I hope I am wrong.

[hippywife]

7. If that were the case

I would probably go out of business. I would refuse, too. That has been one of my most adamant issues even since I was a small child. If a small child can figure out that it's wrong, so can an adult.

[Bertha Venation]

2. It's racist as hell, but only on the part of those requesting service.

I think that in the case of the nurse, the company should honor the request. I know race and gender aren't exactly analogous, but if I needed a home nurse, I would not want a man, and if the company sent a man I'd be furious.

:shrug: I dunno how to articulate my thoughts, really. Sorry if this is too vague.

[Roon]

5. Great point, Bertha!

My Grandmother has to take her clothes off to get treatment,she probably wouldn't want a man either.

[NJmaverick]

4. From an idealist point of view I woudl say this is wrong

from a realist point of view I would say a senior that needs nursing services is a poor candidate for major changes in their point of view.

Now your first example, I would totally agree. If a couple asked for a specific race, I would tell them to go pound salt and contact the KKK for their needed services.

[kiva]

6. One of my concerns, when my father

was experiencing full-blown senile dementia, was that he would make racist statements to one of his caregivers. Dad had many good qualities but, like many of his generation (born 1914), was a racist. In his right mind his sense of manners overrode his racism - his comments were made privately - but if you've ever dealt with people in this situation you know that verbal brake is gone. His caregivers were (largely) wonderful, and the thought that my father would be less than respectful to any of them was appalling. As far as any of us knew he did not, or at least we never heard about it.

[jobycom]

13. Well said. I was trying to form those thoughts into words, and now I don't have to.

:thumbsup:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. ~

never mind

[Roon]

9. Thanks Tuesday

I got upset with the freeper racism about obama's family.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. ~

:hug:

[Heidi]

14. If qualified non-black folks refused to accommodate such bigotry,

I believe such bigotry would come to a quicker end. I've done it at my own peril and I know I'm not the only one in this big ol' world who has declined race-based employment opportunities. Yes, there are a lot of variables and in some instances you risk your current job by declining to accomodate bigotry by doing the right thing. I just believe we should do right even when it hurts.

P.S. :hug:

[Roon]

16. Thanks for the hugs, Heidi

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. ~

:hug:

[hippywife]

20. Perfect!

I just believe we should do right even when it hurts.

That's when it truly counts and you know how deeply held someone's convictions really are. :hug:

You have a PM.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. I did

and I did get hurt.

[Heidi]

23. I know it's cold comfort, my friend,

but you perpetuated a greater good. Thank you for having the courage of your convictions. :hug:

:yourock:

[Heidi]

11. Racism is the belief that race is the primary predeterminant of human characteristics.

Though I have no proof that those clients believe black/African-Americans are inherently inferior to other races, the simple mention on a contact card barring a particular race from employment is ample evidence of outright bigotry.

Yes, I do believe those companies aid and abet bigots by honoring those requests. Further, I believe non-black/African-American aid-givers who accept employment knowing that bigotry is the primary reason behind the job offer also are aiding and abetting bigotry. Just my opinion. :hi:

[jobycom]

18. Two quibbles over that definition.

First, I think any belief that race determines human characteristics is racism, whether it is the primary determinant or just a minor determinant.

Second, I don't think that's the only definition of racism. I'm thinking of the white separatists who argue that the races are equal, but still should not mingle. In some ways that still fits your definition--they do believe that something inherent in race itself is significant enough to require separation--but it's not a perfect fit, because they aren't necessarily saying race affects human characteristics. Their main argument is that whites and blacks create too much friction to live together because they have different cultures, different backgrounds, etc. And while probably most separatists do feel superior, I'd say that even if they did not, their beliefs would still be racist.

And a related comment--some of racism is based more on cultural differences than skin color. That's the George W Bush type of racism--he had nothing against African Americans who acted white--he proved that with his cabinet appointments--but he didn't like African Americans who in his opinion didn't act the way he thought of white people as acting. He probably didn't like white people who didn't act the way he thought they should, too, but race was still a factor.

I guess my basic definition of racism is using race, racial stereotypes, or racially specific ethnic or cultural or historical characteristics--real or imagined--to judge a person or group.

Not disagreeing with you, just using your comments as springboard for my own thoughts.

[Heidi]

22. I don't quibble with your take on this.

But I think benefitting from racism perpetuates it. I refuse to identify by race, sexual orientation or gender -- why present as "qualirfications," even as subtext, qualities that have nothing to do with achievement? :hi:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

12. But if the you didn't want a

(fill in the blank) housekeeper/nurse/etc and one was sent you, wouldn't you just say "I've changed my mind" and send them home?
Racism is a learned behavior and until a person is willing to hear something other than what they think they know, we cannot force them to chance their mind.
:shrug:

[Roon]

17. Great point!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

15. Yes, they are.

George Lopez had a funny routine about this. He said when he hired nurses for his grandmother, he made sure that they were all black because his grandmother had always been racist against black people, and he wanted to teach her something before she died.

The funniest part was when he said, "Each nurse was blacker than the previous one -- the last two were almost purple." :rofl: