Speaking of looks... IMO makeup is ridiculous. So is hair dye.

[redqueen]

I do currently use makeup... I didn't for years but I work at the front desk, and I thought I might be putting my job at risk by not playing along. Ugh.

Does this look nice, or silly?





It looks only slightly different than clown face stuff, IMO. Like a costume.

That second pic isn't from an ad for fake eyelashes, either... it's from a blog post about a drug that makes your eyelashes longer, I guess.

Really?

All these chemicals... all this nonsnese... for what?

I dunno... I'm all for dressing up at Halloween or for costume parties. Other than that... this stuff just seems so very silly to me.


on edit: I don't think wearing it to even out skin tone or stuff like that is ridiculous... I was thinking more of the look that's featured in advertising. That's what got me thinking about this... a mascara ad.

[fizzgig]

1. i don't necessarily think wearing makeup is ridiculous

but being judged for not wearing it is.

i very rarely wear makeup, but i will occasionally dye my hair, but that's more because i feel it gives me a bit of control in my life during times where it feels like i have none.

[redqueen]

5. How about being judged for not dying your hair?

My old boss used to do that. I did cave and start wearing makeup... but I will not dye my hair. That stuff is just vile. I refuse to participate in that, no matter what. I did it once when I was a teen, and the stuff just smelled so awful and chemically... so that's one I won't budge on.

I see ads for cosmetics (like the mascara ads with the - IMO - ridiculously long / thick lashes) and just marvel at it... and I yearn for a day when it's as outdated as men wearing makeup.

That's what got me started on this. Some ad for mascara in which the end result is just... for me, it's just... really? That looks good?

[fizzgig]

12. i think that's equally ridiculous

it's no one's business whether you wear makeup or color your hair and it shouldn't make a difference one way or the other. however, given the looks-obsessed society we live in, i honestly don't see it changing any time soon.

[MissMillie]

2. I wear just enough to even out my skin tone

and put a little blush in my cheek.

I used to think that women fussed over their looks for men, but now I really believe they do it to impress other women.

[redqueen]

7. Yes... sorry, that's not what I consider ridiculous.

It's the super made-up look with the over-the-top (IMO) lashes and stuff like that.

Which I guess even that doesn't seem so ridiculous if you're going out or something.. but it's sure not for me under any circumstances. When I've had makeovers done with that look I was always horrified with the results.

[MissMillie]

10. I always end up in trouble if I do too much to my eyes

because inevitably, I'll either cry or rub them, and either way, it doesn't end up working out so well.

[SidneyCarton]

3. I've seen pictures of you before.

If that is you without makeup (and your OP leads me to believe it is) then you look just fine. Mrs. Carton doesn't put on a "face" all that often (mostly to go out, or to church, etc..) and she looks just fine without it.

[redqueen]

9. Well I wear the same as MissMille now.

Coverup for blemishes, bronzer for color... and a very little bit of eyeliner and mascara.

I resent it though, I do!

I do have a few no-makeup pics... I did spend years not wearing any at all.

[hippywife]

56. I don't even where that much anymore

and haven't for years now. (I'm 50.) I stopped dying my hair last year when I decided to let my freak flag fly and let my hair go gray. (Thank you, Laura Love! LOL!) Plus it eliminated one more source of harsh chemicals from my body's environment.

Besides, you look real purdy without it, sweetie. :hi:

[MineralMan]

4. I'm indifferent to makeup. Some people use it, some don't.

I don't usually even notice. I'm listening to what they're saying or their expression. I couldn't normally tell you if someone I'd seen that day was wearing makeup or not.

[redqueen]

6. I can tell. Women can tell.

I don't normally care one way or the other... but the look that ads feature... that's what I'm talking about.

I'm going to edit my OP...

[MineralMan]

8. Oh. That looks like evening makeup to me, with the gold

metallic stuff. I suppose that if you're going out on the town, it might make sense, but I can't see that level of eye makeup for the workplace, certainly.

OTOH, if I encountered someone in an office setting with that makeup on, I'd take no more notice of it than I do of bare eyelids.

[backtoblue]

11. I only wear a bit of mascara and some lip gloss.

IOW - bat shit and snail goo.

[redqueen]

17. Yeah...

I forgot, I wear lipstick too.

No lip gloss though. Can't stand having my hair stick to my lips. x(

[Deep13]

13. +1

Ones normal appearance should not be considered defective or unfinished. My wife hardly ever wears make-up, but she does like to get her hair colored. I'm fine with the natural color, but it's not my hair. I drew the line when she said that when I go grey (in progress) I should get my hair colored. I said no way. She said I would look old. "I'll BE old. And so will you!"

[redqueen]

15. Hahahah... love your response!

I dunno... I'm torn about this.

On the one hand, I can see how it looks nice and pretty and all that... but on the other... when it gets to the point of being near enough to a job requirement, or marketed for daily use (too much crap already, trashing up the planet... but we just make up (HA!) reasons to make more?)... that's when I get all uptight about it. :P

[Deep13]

18. I know. We have to conform enough to get by.

Kind of like my lawn. I mow and trim it just enough to keep the city yard Gestapo from bitching. I sure as hell would not wear a coat and tie every day if it was not required.

[TZ]

14. You know what pisses me off?

Some pharmaceutical company has come out with a drug that is supposed to make your eyelashes thicker and longer...Its crap like this that helps give this industry a bad name...God I'm grateful my company sticks to immunological research....:banghead:

[redqueen]

16. Yes!

The second pic is from a blog entry abuot that drug.

I'd say it's crap like this that gives consumer whoredom a bad name, but that's just me, and I'm a cantankerous bitch.

[Deep13]

19. Yeah. Like the hard-on drugs or pills for male baldness.

Sure those things are useful, but what about cancer or drug resistant TB?

[KamaAina]

21. Oh yes. I've seen that one.

It can cause "brown coloration of your irises, which is likely permanent"!! :scared:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. its absolutely gorgeous.

[PeaceNikki]

23. I think so, too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. i love makeup. i find all the criticism of makeup to be silly. i bet if more men did makeup

we would view it as art or a powerful statement of individuality. because its mostly women who do makeup, its viewed as silly and shallow.

i love color. i love makeup. i dont judge others for being makeup less, but i certainly dont think it makes you better or any less shallow a person.

[redqueen]

27. Men did wear makeup.

We mock them now, becuase we say it looks silly. It was considered fancy and beautiful at the time... now, not so much.

Why it looks silly on men but not on women is beyond me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. it doesnt look silly on men or on women. its a form of art if you are good at it

its not a necessity but if you think makeup is what makes you shallow or silly, you are wrong.

[redqueen]

30. Most people think it does.

Just like most people think it looks good on women.

As for thinking that wearing it makes one shallow or silly... where did you get that from? Defensive much?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. IMO makeup is ridiculous.Does this look nice, or silly?

It looks only slightly different than clown face stuff, IMO. Like a costume.
All these chemicals... all this nonsnese... for what


I am not being defensive. your opinion on makeup is immaterial to my life. i am just pointing out that i think you are wrong.

[redqueen]

32. Did I say people who use it are silly?

You're personalizing it. Why?

Also, no... I'm not wrong. You disagree with my opinion, that's all. Opinions, remember?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. i am not personalizing, trust me dear, your opinion on makeup or really anythign else

is NOT important to me. just saying i disagree with you and stating my reasons why. :)

[redqueen]

35. *roffle*... "dear"... I knew that shit would come out eventually.

No, you didn't just say you disagreed... you said I was wrong. Thanks for not taking it back, but instead choosing to just pretend you didn't say it, and throw out a contemptuous (and personal!) "dear", just for my benefit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. umm ok.

[PeaceNikki]

33. I concur.

I don't think it's required to make a woman be beautiful, but I appreciate the artistry behind it. I think it's fun and pretty and I like to wear makeup and feel pretty. I especially like the shadow in the OP. The colors are exactly my taste and I actually do something very similar with similar shades.

I don't judge women who don't choose to wear makeup and think it shallow if people judge me for doing so.

[redqueen]

37. Nobody's judging anyone.

Get off the cross, geez.

[PeaceNikki]

38. Cross? Your OP said it looks like a "clown face". You called it "silly" twice.

That's kinda "judgy", redqueen.

On edit: And you called it "ridiculous". Also.

[redqueen]

39. That's judging the thing, not the people who enjoy it.

Change the subject, and replace makeup with NASCAR.

If someone said how idiotic it was to drive around in a circle... would you interpret that as calling NASCAR fans idiots?

[PeaceNikki]

40. Well, I contend that your OP is judgy.

Post one about NASCAR and if I care enough, I will give you my $.02 on it.

Which is not likely.

[redqueen]

41. This whole board is judgy.

But when it's not our ox being gored, it's easier to avoid taking it personally, it's true.

[PeaceNikki]

43. Neither of us took it personally. We stated our opinion and it differs from yours.

You specifically asked for opinions after you stated yours in a rather judgy manner implying that makeup (and by association, the people who enjoy it) is silly, ridiculous and clown-like.

Sorry we disagree. :shrug:

[redqueen]

48. Why are you apologizing?

As for the 'by association' thing, I don't buy into that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. Do you buy this argument when the catholic church offers it in relation to homosexuality?

that you dont judge the homosexual but you judge their action.

in this case, as in the case of the homosexual, makeup would not exist without makeup users. if there wasnt a market or a tradition, the thing itself woudl cease to exist.

So the argument that you are condemning make up but not the user, just seems like a cop out. its how i feel about the catholic argument homosexuality too. its just a cop out.

With this though i am kind of done with this thread. So will go and put it on hide.

[redqueen]

44. Yes. I don't personally like engaging in gay sex.

I could describe it in more detail but hopefully that's not necessary to make the point that I can have an opinion about the actions without thinking that people who disagree about those actions are bad or less than or gross or whatever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. if you called it clownish, silly or gross you would then just as much be talking about

the homosexual as the act of gay sex and it would be (as it is in this OP) judgmental and a bit meanspirited to people who are not exactly like you

[redqueen]

46. So if someone says that they find a certain sexual act gross...

that means they think anyone who does it is gross?

That's a bit of a stretch IMO... and not at all the case.

Although it is rather eye-opening... from now on when you give an opinion on something, I'll know you're not just talking about that thing, but rather you're really talking about anyone and everyone who disagrees with you about it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. you dont think is somesaid that they find anal sex between men gross, that they

were being judgmental?

this is disengenous at best.

[redqueen]

52. Why does it have to be between men?

Why limit it? So you can carve it up nice and narrow so it fits your argument?

I think certain sexual acts are gross. These acts are not uniquely enjoyed by gay couples. I don't think the people who engage in them are gross... I just find that one specific thing gross. We can somehow manage to disagree about that without them getting all bent out of shape because I think they're gross by association or whateverthehell.

Is that any clearer?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. if you called it ridiculous and clownish it would be judgmental

if on the other hand you say, you dont enjoy it so you personally dont participate in it. that would be an issue about tastes and preferences. not judgment.

i am pretty sure you know this though.

[datasuspect]

59. sometimes i like to feel pretty

[Flaxbee]

22. The makeup is very pretty ... I think you have to be careful with

long lashes, otherwise they can look a bit spooky, but the gold eyeshadow is beautiful.

I don't think there is anything wrong at all with a little make up, or a lot. I think NO makeup can make a person look unkempt. Very few of us have flawless complexions, and a little color can be fun.

And there are TONS of new hair dyes out there that aren't nearly as harsh as what you may have tried years ago... many decent products on the market that are gentle and don't smell bad.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to enhance your looks. People have been doing it for thousands of years and most likely will never stop. The urge to adorn oneself is very human. I think women are actually lucky - men, if they want to be seen as masculine or be taken seriously (outside of entertainment), can't wear makeup. Women can. They can choose not to, but putting a little color on, or enhancing lashes or lip color, can be fun.

You wouldn't wear just any old piece of clothing, no doubt you have your own style and conform to the norms required by office attire standards. So why do you resent makeup? It's just another part of office / professional wear. You might think it's silly, others might think shoes are silly. Why bother to resent it?

[redqueen]

24. No, there's nothing wrong with wanting to enhance your looks.

But I see men as being the lucky ones in this particular situation. I'd rather just have to wear a suit and tie, and not have to shave half my body and paint up my face to be considered 'professional'. As for hair dye, it may be gentle, but it's still ridiculous. No way am I signing up to do regular touch ups so I can look younger.

As for any old piece of clothing, yes I do. I do not have personal style. I scorn style and fashion in general, really. IMO it's all superficial and meaningless.

As for resenting it... to a certain extent I do... but I said I was torn on the issue. Nothing is black and white.


Furthermore... I do think it's unfair that men are denied this ability to enhance their appearance, and I've often hoped that men's makeup would come back into style. I also think it's horrible that they're scorned for wearing pretty clothes. Just cause I think it's silly or meaningless doesn't mean I think everyone should feel the same... and I lecture people regularly (as often as the topic comes up) about how unfair it is that men's choices are limited in this regard.

[Arugula Latte]

26. I know what you're saying. I don't like that slathered-on look However,

it seems like most societies have embraced altering looks through paint one way or another.

[redqueen]

28. Yes. However, with the excepton of that geisha/actress...

which of those people wear that get-up daily?

[Captain Hilts]

100. It's unfair how this burden is limited to women in our society. nt

[Arugula Latte]

102. That is true.

Except for John Boehner. He sacrifices his skin for us, so that we may gaze upon his stunning orange visage.

[Captain Hilts]

103. I certainly wouldn't wish it on men. nt

[Dr Fate]

47. Depends on the person. To each his own.

Some girls look interesting with dyed hair, creative make up, etc.

Some do not.

Many look great just going natural.

Just like some guys look better or more interesting w/ different hair styles, different facial hair, a tan, etc.

I don't have a problem with people who like to be creative with their look, or who like to make a statement about themselves with the way they look- one way or the other...

[redqueen]

49. I don't have a problem with those people either.

This is only my opinion... I don't expect others to conform to it, nor think less of anyone who disagrees.

Apparently a few people on this board do indeed think that way. I guess I never noticed...

[Dr Fate]

51. Interesting discussion either way- thanx for the thread. n/t

n/t

[NewJeffCT]

54. It looks ok to me, but

I would have to see how the rest of her looks to judge if she has too much makeup.

I'm not big into dying hair, be it on a man or woman. But, I know people have been dying their hair since the days of ancient civilizations.

[NewJeffCT]

55. It looks ok to me, but

I would have to see how the rest of her looks to judge if she has too much makeup.

I'm not big into dying hair, be it on a man or woman. But, I know people have been dying their hair since the days of ancient civilizations.

[Drunken Irishman]

57. Some women need makeup.

And if done right, makeup can be very pleasing.

[redqueen]

76. How do you mean?

Like if they have scars or large birthmarks on their face or something?

[Shell Beau]

58. I like makeup if done right.

Otherwise it looks ridiculous. It can enhance your features or make you look like a clown.

I wear makeup most days, but I don't find it necessary to put on.

I also like to color my hair from time to time. My natural color is sandy blonde, but I like to play around with it. My best friend is a color specialist. We have fun with my hair. Never anything really crazy, but I have been red, dark brown, strawberry, etc.

[Strong Atheist]

60. Never liked makeup. Think women look fine without it.

Edited: tastes terrible!

[redqueen]

77. Hahaha... are you licking their faces?

[Strong Atheist]

91. You can kiss a face, too y'know?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

93. Kidding!

I agree... and cologne or perfume tastes bad when you're erm... paying attention to the neckal area.

[Strong Atheist]

94. Agreed. I don't like particulates anyway; they bother my lungs... nt.

[REP]

61. I don't wear any, yet I think the examples given in the OP are lovely

I have nothing against makeup; I just don't do much that requires that level of dressing up. But I do love "coloring" and I own lots of beautiful makeup! Whatever works for the individual. No one should have to wear it - or not, if they enjoy it.

[LanternWaste]

62. Not opposed to it, nor married to it...

Not opposed to, not married to it. I imagine for many people, it's simply one additional way to express ourselves in a visual manner-- much as we do with our wardrobes, our hair, and our tattoos (I use the royal "our" for the last example). On the other hand, I imagine too that some people may use it for less constructive purposes-- hiding themselves... or at least hiding a physical manifestation of our true selves.

That being said, I do think it's an industry that has (recently) caused more harm than good, and an industry that cynically leads culture-trends rather than following with servility, i.e., we're allowing an industry to dictate to us what is or is not attractive, rather than doing that for ourselves on a wholly individual level.

[mopinko]

63. i have a thing about honesty.

which is not to say that i think i am virtuous or anything. just honest. even when it hurts. when it is hard.
which is to say- this is my face. this is my white hair. these are my big saggy boobs. it just is.
i used to do all that girly shit when i was younger. my sister was the kind that never left the house without it. i didn't see her without it for years. then i caught her without one day, and i swear i barely recognized her. did she look better? i guess. but she didn't look like who she was.

[redqueen]

78. Yeah, there's that too...

that joke about how women deteriorate overnight... women worrying about their new partner seeing them first thing in the morning.

Depending on how much makeup one wears, it can be quite a difference.

[EndersDame]

64. I love flamboyant make up MAC is a godsend

I don't wear make up on a day to day basis but like to dress up and be colorful

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. i website i love to check out if you are into these things are

www.makeupgeek.com

[hunter]

65. I seem to be missing the facial recognition software that makes makeup make sense.

All I see is that somebody has got something on their face. I can also walk past people I've known all my life without recognizing them which is why they've learned to wave their arms or make a scene of some other sort if they want me to notice them.

It's brought me a bit of grief in my life. :(

[redqueen]

79. How very interesting...

sorry it's brought you grief... glad your friends get it now though and don't get offended by you 'snubbing' them or anything. :)

[Kali]

66. looks good on some, some NEED it, and some abuse it

thank god I don't have to waste time with it

oh and to throw another discussion nugget: cute boys with mascara/eyeliner! hee hee


edit to fix what might have come across as really arrogant: I probably am one who needs it, I just don't HAVE to for any professional or social reasons. Cows and wildlife could care less.:rofl:

[redqueen]

81. Abuse?

Disclaimer for the easily offended: I am NOT making fun of Tammy Faye, but I do think her makeup was ridiculous... I respected her, and admired her courage... and I'm sure she didn't give a flying fart what anyone thought of her makeup. She did it for herself, which is how it should be.

[Robeson]

67. I always thought you were a guy. But if those pics are of you...

...you're really pretty, for a guy that is.

[redqueen]

82. Hah... no I'm not a guy.

And no, those are not my pics.

Hehehe... 'for a guy'.

[Missy Vixen]

68. I feel more confident when I'm wearing makeup

I have good skin, but it's good to accent my other features.

I also color my hair. Yes, I'm vain. :woohoo:

[redqueen]

83. We're all vain in one way or another.

For some it's appearance... for some it's intelligence... for some it's cooking skills / appreciation for food... others music... nothing wrong with that. As long as one's ego does not get out of control. :)

I have bad skin, but I don't give a crap! :P

[Forkboy]

70. I'm more concerned about women who wear too much perfume.

Here's a tip ladies: If you stand still and leave a puddle behind, you're wearing too much. You don't need to marinate in it.

As for makeup, not a big fan, but I don't think it's silly at all. Many woman love wearing it, and many women look great doing so. And as for hair dye, I think every women should use it, preferably in multiple colors of yellow, green and pink. :)

[redqueen]

84. God yes... anyone, not just women.

Plenty of men do the same. I think people can get used to the smell, and not realize they smell like a chemical plant. They need more honest friends. :)

[Captain Hilts]

71. Make up is a total racket that preys on - and damages women's self-esteem. Just to make money. nt

[redqueen]

85. I'd be lying if that wasn't part of my frustration about this issue.

The marketing is so pushy. As I was watching that mascara ad, I found myself wondering why anyone would *want* to have such humongous, fake-looking eyelashes? I realize some do, but enough to fund television ads?

I went to counseling with one psychologist for a while who thought that advertising should be illegal, because it preyed on our subconscious, which we can't control. Interesting thought...

[Captain Hilts]

92. It's not wearing make up on occasion that is bad, it is the idea that without it you are

ugly and unpresentable. Or a lesbian.

[Orrex]

72. Makeup and hair dye are ridiculous, and so is any clothing that isn't purely utilitiarian

[redqueen]

86. You're being sarcastic, aren't you?

I'm not far off from that, though, really. I do like pretty underclothes but that's for very specific use. As for clothes & shoes to wear around... I have enough to get by. That's all I need.

That is not to say that I think everyone should be so spartan.

[Deep13]

99. Quite right, comrade!

[BarenakedLady]

73. I don't wear makeup

I'm too lazy really. I used to wear it when I was younger and probably didn't need it. Now that I'm old and haggard, I probably should. Heh. I won't, but I'd probably look less weary. I touch my face and eyes too much and would end up looking like a raccoon by the end of the day though.

The same with hair dye. I'm getting more and more grey and thought about at least highlighting it, but again I'm too lazy. The upkeep would piss me off.

[RebelOne]

74. No way is makeup ridiculous. It is a necessity.

I wouldn't be seen dead without makeup. I even wear false lashes.

[redqueen]

75. Wow, this is still going? Anyway yeah, most women down here agree...

it is simply seen as a must, and going out in public without it is not an option.

I wonder how popular wigs are... down here they seem fairly popular.

[Ariana Celeste]

80. i'm pregnant, in my third trimester now

around the beginning of my second trimester i bought makeup for the first time in a good couple of years... so on days where i'm feeling self conscious about the extra weight gain (it ain't all baby :P) or the dark under my eyes, the breaking out like jr. high, or just plain feeling sick and tired... i'll dress up in my nicer brightly colored maternity clothes, do my hair, and throw on some mascara, shadow, and lip gloss. really lifts my spirits when i'm having a bad day, makes me feel pretty. most days i just go natural but here and there it can be a good boost for my self esteem.

[redqueen]

87. That has never worked for me...

and there are times I really really wish it would.

Good luck with the home stretch! :hi:

[Ariana Celeste]

88. thanks :)

never really worked for me in the past either, in fact, i would become even more critical of myself in makeup because i could never get the perfect look lol

i think this time around it's mostly the hormones ;)

[cherish44]

89. I don't like the heavily made up look

If I wore mascara like those pictures, it would smudged all around my eyes by day's end and I'd look like more of a raccoon than I do most days (I have allergies so I'm prone to get itchy eyes certain times of the year) As far as hair dye, yeah I cover my gray. I found my first gray hairs at 22 and well I'm 42 now, so there are a couple more we'll say...No ready to accept that yet

[MajorChode]

90. Fake makeup, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake boobs, fake butts

...and women think men are the biggest liars

[bridgit]

95. I don't wear makeup, never have really not even Vegan...

http://www.sephora.com/?esvcid=S1247757059_ADOGOB_AGI1097872_CRE2540578337_TID110322794_RFDd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5jb20%3d_RAWdmVnYW4lMjBtYWtldXA%3d Have maybe 4 times in 5 years and 3 of those were Halloween. I don't even have to shave my armpits unless it's my call; it's all so patriarchal, but there is a potency to what is mythical/mystical between men & women, between human beings (to vanity itself) so that when, maybe, the first woman from within a circle of women reached down pulling from a fire-pit a piece of charcoal she accenting the enticements of her eyes their shape their color; perhaps hopefully their allure walking her fingers up the forearm of some fool that will be led back to a three-way with her real boyfriend and his gf.

From no-less than that day forward that battle has been joined in those ways it's all a mask. Some of the peels are referred to a masks, but you're right...it's just another form of burqua - "clown whore makeup"

[graywarrior]

96. Usually it's older women who harp on me about dying my hair.

Sometimes I wear so much eyeliner I look like a ho, but that is intentional because I am, of course and attention ho. Most of the time I wear no makeup and Mr Gray hounds me to comb my hair.

[azmouse]

97. I can't wait until my hair is gray all over so I can stop dying it.

Right now the only gray I have is at the sides of my head. When the gray is all over you better believe I'm going natural.
Gray is beautiful.

[redqueen]

98. Hah... that's my sister's job for me.

She's the only woman that gives me crap about dying my hair. :P

[Deep13]

101. I tend to agree with the OP, but it is just my opinion.

For the most part, I think it consists of unnecessary products that only exist because of a decades-old advertising strategy that is designed to made women in particular feel insecure about the way they look. And my own tastes tend to prefer the au naturale look.

Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with people who choose to use it. As long as it really is a personal preference or a means of personal expression, I'm all for that. My concern is always that the choice is somewhat coerced by corporate norms. My mother won't leave home for a ten minute errand without "putting my face on." I think that is pretty neurotic.

In any event, it is not worth fighting over. In my aesthetic judgment, makeup is unnecessary, but I make no moral judgment on the matter one way or the other.

[applegrove]

104. I am in my forties and have grey hair. Friends at work at various jobs keep

telling me I should dye it. I've dyed it for 24 years already and the dark dyes are carcinogens so I'm done with dye.