Rock bands that lost ONE critical, key member and should have called it a day...but didn't

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Okay, Okay...I know...look in the dictionary next to "Prick" and you'll see a photo of Ritchie Blackmore.

But I'm listening to Deep Purple and for me, it was Blackmore / Gillan / Lord / Paice / Glover...anything else was a cover band calling itself Deep Purple.



Nothing against Steve Morse, but the licks that put Purple on the map were Blackmore licks, just like Led Zep's licks were Jimmy Page's licks and Cream's licks were Eric Clapton's licks.

Your picks?

[XemaSab]

1. Nirvana

n/t

[Amerigo Vespucci]

3. Nirvana went on without Cobain?

I missed that one...

[Richardo]

2. Chicago and Terry Kath

He was the testosterone of that group, and a guitarist even Hendrix admired, so yeah, when he died they should have hung it up.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. Chicago's kind of like 2009 The Beach Boys...

...in The Beach Boys, it's Mike Love (original member), Bruce Johnston (who took Brian's place on stage), and a bunch of other guys. No Wilson brothers, because two of them are dead, and Brian is doing his own thing...and Mike Love sued Al Jardine's ass (also not a strict "original" member) for touring as "Beach Boys Family & Friends..."

Chicago, I've lost track...I guess there are one or two of the original guys, but yeah...that band had its strength coming out of the gates, and while they have stood the test of time, that's a matter of willpower versus a matter of talent. The first few albums were the stuff of legend. Everything else, maybe not so much. Really not so much.

:toast:

[Sebastian Doyle]

32. I think it's just Bobby Lamm and the horn section left in Chicago

I also had no real use for them after Terry Kath died, but even as a top 40 pop band, they really should have pulled the plug when Cetera left. Chicago 17 (their last record with Pete) wasn't anything like their early stuff, but it was a solid Miami Vice era pop record, at least. When they replaced him with a sound alike and went into Air Supply territory I just had to reach for the barf bag.

[mix]

5. That's a tough one.

The Who is the only one that comes to mind.

[Condem]

6. There was a Deep Purple before that Deep Purple, Amerigo

Rod Evans. Lead singer.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

8. I know, I'm listening to the "Very Best Of Deep Purple" CD...

...and heard "Hush" and "Kentucky Woman," but I feel better about replacing Evans with Gillan than I do about replacing Blackmore with Morse...

...to a degree. Morse is a team player and the band is happy. Blackmore was not a team player. But Blackmore had the riffs. How do you balance THOSE scales?

:toast:

[Condem]

9. I agree 1000%, Amerigo.

Ian Gillan. Made in Japan. One of the best live albums ever made. The voice of Jesus in the original Superstar. No argument from me.

[dysfunctional press]

70. if the discussion is incarnations of deep purple- tommy bolin at least deserves a mention.

so i'm mentioning him.

[Orrex]

7. Pink Floyd losing Roger Waters

His departure was a far more serious blow to the band than Syd's had been.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

10. I look at that two ways...

...I thought that "The Final Cut" was the worst album of their career, and if Waters had stayed on and the band kept making albums like "The Final Cut," I probably would have stopped buying Pink Floyd albums.

...two, as a guitar player myself, "maybe" Gilmour should have called "Momentary Lapse of Reason" and "The Division Bell" solo albums, but I can live with the Floyd label if that's how the cards fell. Hell, even Gilmour said in interviews that the songs weren't as good as prime Floyd...

...but when he said that, he WAS NOT talking about "The Final Cut," because the only band member who didn't think that one sucked royal arse was Waters.

:toast:

[Orrex]

13. No one is lukewarm about The Final Cut

Floyd fans either love it or hate it, and never the twain shall meet!

I'm actually very fond of it. I view it as a sort of "third disc" of The Wall and a precursor to Roger's Amused to Death.

The Final Cut certainly (IMO) has some of the band's (well, Roger's) most powerful lyrics, and some of the guitar work is frankly amazing.


But I understand that it has a verbose bleakness that can be rather off-putting, and if the listener doesn't care for Roger's vocal stylings, then the album simply won't work.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

21. Waters' first solo album, "Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking"...

...is rumored to be made up of tracks Floyd rejected during "The Wall" sessions.

Roger's not my hero. From the first album through "The Wall," he was a critical element in the band. I'll gladly give him that.

But as you can see, I'm on the "hate it" side of the "Final Cut" equation.

:toast:

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. Not so much tracks as the entire record

Waters had written Pros and Cons around the same time as he had written The Wall, but it was two seperate projects. He gave the other band members the choice of which album they wanted to make, and they chose The Wall. The Final Cut was really more the Wall rejects/post script/whatever.

Had Pink Floyd made another album, it probably would have been Pros and Cons.

[cleveramerican]

65. Nick Mason

Pink Floyd's drummer since the beginning never gets the credit he deserves.
He is a huge part of their atmospheric sound.


He is also a world famous Ferrari collector.
One of the best collections in the world.

[carpetbagger]

51. Absolut truth, I've experienced it.

In high school, before and then right around the time of Momentary Lapse of Reason, I ate lunch in the music department classrooms. We had a non-heated, but quite passionate discussion about The Final Cut. I love the album. I once considered it one of the five great albums, now maybe one of the 20 great albums. I'm willing to admit it's "soft Floyd", if "hard Floyd" is defined as The Dark Side of the Moon, certainly if it's defined as Barrett Floyd. But you're right, it's the third LP of The Wall. Only it's the thesis, the testament, the Cliff's Notes of the wall, not the "let's make a rock opera out of this" shading of the original Wall.

But back to my point. There were two camps in that room that day, the hard-core musicians who had music jobs, or planned careers in music, and the people who hung around for other reasons. The hard-core ones, myself included, all had the same feelings about the Final Cut, like some bad sci-fi story of telekinesis. It was strange, like meeting soulmates.

[bluesbassman]

11. Hafta go with Van Halen on this question.

Although I'm not a huge fan of Diamond Dave. He was THE front man's front man in the Van Halen line up. FWIW, I like Sammy, he was a great front man for Montrose, but Van Halen lost a step when Dave left.

[Condem]

12. If there is an argument here, blues

these people are fools.

[bluesbassman]

19. I think some people just never got Dave.

Eddie's playing was so over the top that Dave had to be this larger than life persona. If he hadn't, Van Halen would have got no farther than Malmsteen commercially - there's only so much market for guitar virtuosity. Hence the stage presence of Roth, combined with Eddie's playing created a sound and show that attracted a huge audience.

[Condem]

22. And I look back to my Dazed and Confused High School Days..

..and it still sounds fucking wonderful. Fuck Sammy Hagar.

[Sebastian Doyle]

34. Amen to that

Fuck that tequila selling, cheese ballad writing, Bush supporting, Nugent loving piece of shit Sammy Hagar!

[Condem]

41. I can't drive 55, Sebastian.

Wow. What a good piece of music.

[6000eliot]

61. His vocal mannerisms were always a major turnoff for me.

All those yelps and hoots make me want to retch. I appreciate the musicianship in the band, but don't own a single VH album, because I can't stand DLR. They got marginally better with Sammy, but by then the awful '80s production took over, so again I find it unlistenable.

[lildreamer316]

54. I'm not going to argue per se,but I am going to say

that I think it was a whole different but equally as good band with Hagar. There are layers to the music,especially on Balance, that you did not find with Dave. But I love the Dave VH just as much.
So it was a different band, but I don't think they could have survived not calling themselves Van Halen.
Sorry, I love them both.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

15. And I'm gonna agree with you...

...there's not a man or woman on the planet who's going to convince me that the first Montrose album isn't a five-star effort.

It's where Sammy earned his stripes. There isn't a bad track on it.

But Van Hagar?

Roth got in Eddie's FACE over the keyboard stuff..."You're a GUITAR HERO, may-un"...

...but in the long run, the power in that band has always been the brothers. That's how Anthony got bounced and Roth came back. Those boys own Ferraris and Porsches and those sumbiches are EXPENSIVE to tune up.

Van Halen gave guitar rock back to America. Let's not forget that Van Halen's climb BEGAN during disco's death rattle, and that on the first album, Eddie was STILL wearing bell bottoms and platform shoes.

Montrose...on the first album...was American Led Zeppelin. They couldn't pull it off for two albums in a row...with the exception of "I've Got The Fire" and "Spaceage Sacrifice," the "Paper Money" album is the personification of the dreaded sophomore slump.

But that first album? Rock and Roll Hall of Fame stuff, front to back.

:toast:

[bluesbassman]

29. Spot on with the Montrose commentary.

I think if Ronnie had let Sammy expand his role more with the guitar they might have survived, but damn that first album was hard rock perfection.

[Oeditpus Rex]

20. And I was gonna say, though I hate to say it

Montrose post-Hagar didn't have the balls — though maybe Ronnie Montrose wanted it that way, too, since even then he was more than just a burner.

[bluesbassman]

31. Really, this was what Ronnie was and still is about.

Not necessarily a bad thing - just doesn't leave room for a prominent front man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVBMJickUeM&feature=related

[Oeditpus Rex]

46. When I got 'Open Fire'

I was blown away by that track. It remains my favorite of everything he's done.

He'd long since started to spread out, though; on "Paper Money" there was "We're Goin' Home," "Spaceage Sacrifice" and even "Starliner," which was a burner, but an atypical one. (He was dating Tawn Mastrey of KSJO and gave her a tape that had "Starliner" from a show in Cleveland. It was amazing.)

"Warner Brothers Presents Montrose" had "Whaler" (about the only song Bob James sang well) and that beautiful acoustic solo, "One and a Half." After that, he became almost impossible to categorize; it's like every new album was an experiment. There was another track on "Open Fire" with Edgar Winter on a Moog sequencer bass that sounded like a meeting of musicians from Marrakesh and Mars.

[mix]

23. +1

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

81. Agreed...

Dave might not be the best singer ever, but he's all personality and I think it was what the band needed as a counterweight to Eddie. I always hated Hagar's voice, but in addition to that the band to me lost all their energy and was no fun. It seemed like they had become a money machine.

Also Dave was certainly no Shakespeare, but he could come up with some funny lyrics (even more so later in his solo stuff). I remember reading Hagar's lyrics to "Top of The World" and just thinking it was just a bunch of cliché half-sentences strung together.

[Skittles]

14. Lynyrd Skynyrd

[Amerigo Vespucci]

17. Probably ten times a better example than Blackmore leaving Purple

I supported the "Tribute Tour" because let's face it...these boys had MEDICAL BILLS to pay.

But the current line-up, on tour with Kid Rock?

Nah. I think I'll pass. They're all dead except for Gary Rossington. Time to put THAT band to BED.

:toast:

[Condem]

18. Good call, Skittles.

Ronnie Van Zandt was a true genius.

[Sebastian Doyle]

36. Absolutely!

If Ronnie Van Zant could come back today, I honestly believe he'd beat his little brother's ass for what he's done to the name of Lynyrd Skynyrd.

[Skittles]

73. I think he would kick Gary Rossington's ass more

[Withywindle]

78. Fucking WORD.

Ronnie Van Zant was so fucking brilliant. (And if he were still around, he'd definitively shut down all that "was Lynyrd Skynyrd racist/right-wing?" bullshit that still keeps coming around from people who can't even spell the band's name right.) That street-fair ghost band raking in the money these days gets all the energy they have from Ronnie spinning in his grave.

[cherish44]

95. Skynard was the band the immediately popped in my head

Of course they lost three member I think, not one

[PVnRT]

98. Damn straight. Ronnie is a fucking legend.

He'd disown that band if he were brought back to life today.

[Orrex]

16. Now that I think about it, I'd add The Muppets

Really, after Jim died, it's just been sort of a sad, Muppets tribute band.

[enigmatic]

24. R.E.M.

They haven't been R.E.M. since Bill Berry left the band, and I told Peter Buck pretty much that the last time I spoke to them many years ago when I was still living in the US.

I know Bill gave his ok on going on as R,E.M., but it's not the same band.

[Condem]

25. enigmatic.

No better post than that. Losing a drummer. No big deal. Led Zeppelin was never the same. Nor REM. Great call.

[Sebastian Doyle]

44. Yeah, that's exactly what I've said about them for years

When you think about a band where the drummer would be the most important member usually it would be Rush, or the Who, never truly recovering from the loss of Keith Moon. Or Zeppelin, not even trying to go on after Bonzo died, apart from the occasional one off performance once a decade or so.

You never would have expected Bill Berry to be the most valuable player in REM. And yet, he was.

I'm hoping when the day comes that they decide to hang it up, Bill will be with them on the last tour. Don't know exactly when that will be, but I don't think Stipe wants to be up there like Mick Jagger in his 60's. They once talked about doing their "final" show on New Years Eve 1999 and breaking up at exactly midnight, but I guess the 90's were too good to them and they changed their minds.

[enigmatic]

47. Bill's a great songwriter, too

and he and Mike Mills had that drums-bass tightness that's been lost since Bill left.

[Condem]

49. He's digging his farm in rural GA, too much, Sebastian.

Living the good life. I don't think he wants to fuck with that aneurysm (sp). Obviously.

[driver8]

102. Speaking as a HUGE fan of REM, I would have to agree.

I haven't liked much from these guys since Bill Berry left the band. It's almost like they forgot how to rock!

[OhioChick]

26. Alice in Chains

After Layne Staley died, they should've just let it go.

New guy's okay, but definitely not Layne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnBEXTuUca0

[LostInAnomie]

38. I was really hoping they were going to get Phil Anselmo as their new lead.

That was the rumor for awhile. He would have been different, but it could have been great.

[OhioChick]

42. "Vulgar Display of Power" rocked. n/t

[LostInAnomie]

45. That doesn't even have to be said. That is a fucking given.

It should be a law.

[PVnRT]

99. I thought that was a Pantera album

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. I attended a concert by the Doors AFTER Jim Morrison died

They just weren't the same without his haunting voice.

[Condem]

30. Who sang, Lydia?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. I don't remember--and they weren't really BAD, but they weren't

Jim Morrison.

[Sebastian Doyle]

60. They released two albums after Morrison's death

Ray Manzarek and Robbie Krieger split the vocals on those records. I don't think they sold that well, nor did they deserve to. And I don't believe they have been re-released again after the initial pressing. At least not on CD in the US.

Here's one of their songs from that period. Sounds more like a half-assed Grateful Dead ripoff than the Doors, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNbVA44DJHg

[Amerigo Vespucci]

37. "Tightrope Ride"...

...Ray, from the "Other Voices" album, trying to be Jim.

There WERE NO "OTHER VOICES."

I feel better about the Ian Astbury stuff than I do about "Other Voices" and "Full Circle."

[Condem]

40. No one could be Jim.

A foolish endeavor.

[tigereye]

28. PInk Floyd?

:hide: :evilgrin:

[fNord]

35. well, let me see...

Queen after Freddie....

Metallica after Cliff Burton.....

and I cant believe I'm the first to post this but.....
AC/DC after Bon Scott


on edit: thank you Bluesbassman

[bluesbassman]

39. I think you mean Bon Scott.

But you're right, although Brian Johnson has been a fairly competent replacement.

[fNord]

43. Your right.....

:hide: I think I made have had one too many beers....

[flying rabbit]

53. Bon Scott was the better of the two

but Brian Johnson IMHO made their best album (Back in Black), and they still rock. I am glad they didn't hang it up.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

48. Big Brother & The Holding Company

I have seen them twice, with different singers doing Janis Joplin covers. I don't know if they released anything new after Janis left, but the last time I saw them was just over a year ago.

[Jennicut]

52. Alice in Chains are going to attempt it

No one replaces Layne Staley to me, no one.

[flvegan]

55. Black Sabbath.

Post Ozzy? Yeah, no thanks.

I said it, so what.

[fNord]

56. that one works the other way too....

Ozzy without Tony Iommi wasn't that spectacular either

[bluesbassman]

58. Once again we see where the sum is greater than parts.

Although I must say, I saw Heaven and Hell last year and Tony and Geezer Butler were as awesome as back in the Sabbath days.

[flvegan]

59. As I'm sure you're aware

opinions will vary on that.

Ozzy both with and after Sabbath has been excellent. And Randy Rhoads is and always will be a god.

[Juche]

57. NWA

After Ice Cube left

[Blue_Tires]

80. true

they had some high points after he left, but it was still a long downward spiral...

[mtnester]

62. Queen

Paul Rodgers? I like him but, no.

No one could really replace Freddy Mercury could they?

[Va Lefty]

64. First band I thought of when I saw this thread

Queen w/out Freddy Mercury is not Queen

[Mad_Dem_X]

69. Yes, yes, yes!

Queen is not Queen without Freddie!

[dana_b]

74. yes! Freddie is irreplaceable

I never saw them with Paul Rodgers so I guess that isn't fair but I did see them with Freddie a few times. Damn! Such a fantastic showman!!

[cleveramerican]

63. The Who

goodbye tours every 5 years are pathetic

[Amerigo Vespucci]

71. Somewhere after parting ways with Kenney Jones...

...Townshend finally admitted that Keith Moon was the heart of the band. And while I think Zak Starkey does an admirable job, John Entwistle's passing should have been the end. The problem was that he died on the eve of a series of shows that had already been booked, and Townshend and Daltrey didn't want to give the money back. They did the shows and then booked some more and they're still trying to keep the money machine fed.

[Orsino]

72. An admirable job by a drummer...

...behind Daltrey, Townsend and Entwistle is still a helluva band. I'm glad I saw 'em on the 2000 tour. Starkey did a fine Moon impression, I thought, and Daltrey was still able to curl my hair with his screams.

I think Daltrey has lost most of his voice. The VH1 Rock Honors show was fantastic, right up until the moment "the Who" took the stage and failed to live up to the great tributes that preceded them.

[dana_b]

75. the only reason I disagree is selfish

I would never have gotten to see them then. I was too young to see Moonie and The Who are my favorite band. However I do understand your sentiment. I've missed their last tour or two except I did go to the VH1 Rock Honors. It's sooo different to me without John Entwistle so I completely understand.

[begin_within]

66. the freakin' Beach Boys

Brian Wilson goes into extended hibernation... Dennis Wilson dies (the only member who had actually surfed)... yet the rest of them continue to tour relentlessly as the "Beach Boys"

[conscious evolution]

67. The Greatful Dead

[Bennyboy]

76. The Dead rocked my ass out in may...

I'll take that band over the nineties version of the GD myself. The dead as they were this summer) are freaking amazing, Warren is GOD.

I haven't felt THAT feeling since 95. I hope they tour soon.

[lazyriver]

94. I second that statement. Besides, as you subtly noted in your

subject line, they aren't trying to be the Grateful Dead. They are now The Dead a re-energized band with a kick ass lead guitarist playing with their own style and pushing the envelope just as they once did under a slightly different name with Jerry.

I don't care if they only play one fall show on Mars this year...I'm booking a flight and will be there.

[Bennyboy]

96. Well first there is a ton of Phish to see!

Then hope the dead annuunce another tour or some shows....

[lazyriver]

101. Trying every angle to score tix for Hartford but running out of time.

Seems very fair you Californians got the festival since you got shorted on the summer tour. I'll be tucked away here in Maine being all green with envy come late October.

[Bennyboy]

104. go to the venue, you'll get in....

[mitchum]

68. The Rolling Stones - Mick Taylor = time to hang it up

[old mark]

97. You are right. Woodie is not 1/8th the guitarist Mick Taylor is,

and they just are not the same.

mark

[KamaAina]

77. AC/DC

but I'm actually glad they didn't.

[Deep13]

90. I think they really took off when Angus joined. nt

[seemunkee]

79. Genesis after Peter Gabriel

or at least when Hackett left

[Fire Walk With Me]

100. That was my first thought.

:hi:

[LynneSin]

82. The Who. Seriously, even Zep knew that Bonham was not replaceable

but the Who had no problem finding someone else to do Keith Moon's job. And they still toured even after Entwistle passed away.

[Deep13]

91. I liked the one new record they made post-Moon.

Otherwise, yeah, time to move one. (I'm saying that while turning around and putting my sunglasses on while Won't Get Fooled Again plays in the background.)

[semillama]

83. I'm interested to see what Voivod does without Denis D'Amour on guitar

I'm just not too certain that producing new material as Voivod is a good idea, unless the replacement guitarist can really write in the vein of D'Amour. D'Amour's guitar playing was unique, and his shoes are going to be very difficult to fill.

[Mudoria]

84. UFO after Michael Schenker left

a '70's stalwart in the hard rock category.

[mac56]

85. J. Geils Band

Fortunately they saw the writing on the wall after Peter Wolf left, but not immediately - not till after one last horrible album with Seth Justman trying the vocals. Ghastly.

[mac56]

86. Call me a blasphemer if you will

but The Byrds stopped being The Byrds after Gene Clark quit. Crosby stuck around until they got pissed off with him, then it was McGuinn and Hillman and assorted all-stars.

[gmoney]

88. Along those lines, the Flying Burrito Brothers

After Gram Parsons left, what was the point?

[jayfish]

87. Metallica!

While everyone was good technically, Cliff Burton was the soul and creative force of that band. They had one great cover and original album after his death. Everything since has been garbage.

Jay

[Enrique]

89. Elvis Presley n/t

[ThomWV]

92. Alman Brothers Band

And the odd thing is that Duane didn't play on most of the stuff that was recorded before his death.

[lazyriver]

93. Respectfully disagree. Granted, nobody could replace Duane

and since there is only one actual brother, the name doesn't actually fit. However, I've seen these guys dozens of times since 1996 and I believe Duane smiles down on them every time they play. Derek Trucks could very well be a reincarnation of the late great Duane Allman and Warren Haynes is simply spectacular.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

103. It's a different band that has earned the right to keep on keeping on...

The WORST incarnation of the band...the one that, through a mix of piss-poor songwriting and lackluster performances...was the Arista Records-era band that produced "Brothers of the Road" and "Reach For The Sky."

Gregg Allman - organ, piano, guitar, vocals
Dickey Betts - guitar, slide guitar, vocals
Butch Trucks - drums, tympani
Dan Toler - Guitar
David Goldflies - bass
David "Frankie" Toler - Drums
Mike Lawler - Keyboards

Dear GOD, did these guys SUCK. They also backed Allman on a couple of solo albums, but...well, they just SUCKED.

I hated to see Dicey Betts leave the band, and for a long time wasn;t that thrilled about having Derek Trucks alongside Haynes. But I saw the band in concert (the "Shades of Two Worlds" tour, with Betts & Haynes).

I've slowly accepted Trucks, and Haynes is the real deal. The current edition of the band is good enough to call itself "The Allman Brothers."

:toast:

[wickerwoman]

105. Spinal Tap without Stumpy Joe

A real titan... much missed.

:P