Dog behavior question

[BarenakedLady]

So I've recently moved into a new place and took my two dogs (9 and 9 1/2 years old). They've been together since relative puppy hood (the older one was 18 months old when we adopted him). Emma has always been the alpha dog. She's always bullied him and there have been the occasional skirmishes in the past, but nothing major.

Since the move it has gotten vicious. Most of the time they are fine, but the other day Emma was just really going after Ben. I guess he wasn't being submissive enough for her. It ended up with bloodshed for the first time ever! Since that incident, it's been relatively calm, but it freaked me out.

Was this just some sort of reestablishment of who is boss?

Then there is the problem of retraining them with the invisible fencing. Gah. I've moved from the boonies to the burbs. They aren't used to all the people, cars and other dogs. Too many distractions. They accidentally got out yesterday (kids left door open). They had the collars on and still ran across the street to investigate the new neighbors (friendly). I'm thinking I need to spend the dough on the IF people coming out to train them again. I wonder if I still have the old VHS tape on training them that they gave me way back when...

I love them to death, but I think I'll be sticking to cats after they are gone.

Heh, I say that now...I've never been without a dog.

[HopeHoops]

1. I had to go without a dog in the house for several years.

I started sleeping again when we got the border collie.

[Inchworm]

2. Dogs are a pain in the arse

But so are children. hehe

A new place is a big order for them. There are several things going on; territory, pecking order, security, humans doing new behaviors, etc.

I'm no pro or nothing, but I'm around heathen mutts all the time. I always imaging to myself... if I was a wolf, what would I do? I know comparing poochies to wolves is a stretch, but there is some logic to it (in my twisted brain).

Dogs pack up. That is pretty much undeniable. Packs have a boss. That should be you (and you are one sexy alpha I might add), but things are always in flux so it is a constant position to hold and can easily be forgotten. Once the order is set it usually plays out and all is peachy keen.

Change throws this all off. Even the alpha is setting new boundaries and stuff. This makes the pack unsure and the individuals (Emma, Ben, children, cats, etc) try to establish order themselves. I'm imagining a wolf pack.. if 2 members can't work it out the one not playing "right" is banished/killed or knocked into submission.

Holy crap I'm tweaked on coffee and typing a lot. I forgot the question.

Hi!!

:blush:

PS: I can't wait to read what I typed lol

[BarenakedLady]

3. That makes sense

So either pigs are flying or else I've gone as crazy as you.

:rofl:

:hi:

[Inchworm]

4. I hear Satan is ice skating

:rofl:

Know what's cool about you? You didn't say... "I might have to get rid of my dog because he/she ain't acting like he has all his life."

That's what kills me where I work. People getting rid of a 9 year old dog because it isn't getting along with a new "pack member." It is very heart breaking when you are the crazy hillbilly telling the dog/cat it will all be ok. Don't get me wrong sometimes it IS necessary to do things like that, but usually it is dumbassedness.

:hi:

[skygazer]

5. Sounds to me like a readjustment phase

But I would say that as far as who is boss, you're boss.

I don't tend to interfere in the run-of-the-mill scuffling that goes on between dogs as they establish their positions but when it gets out of hand, I establish MY position. IMO Emma needs to know that she can't take it that far, that it's not acceptable behavior in your pack.

I've never used invisible fencing so I can't help you there. I suspect once they get settled in, things will calm down.

[BarenakedLady]

10. Emma does defer to me.

Luckily.

Hopefully peace will come back.

[Orsino]

6. Cesar would probably tell you that it's less important which of them is boss...

...than whether they are clear that you are boss. The crisis may already have passed, but you can take advantage of the relative peace to reassert your own dominance. When neither dog is trying to be alpha, I suspect that their disagreements will be less violent.

[BarenakedLady]

12. Cesar has unnaturally white teeth.

Therefore, I don't trust him.

I'm kidding. ;)

I'm going to become more alpha-like and stop the more intense scuffles in the future.

[applegrove]

7. My Monster sometimes tries to dominate/bully my Twilight. Usually

it is after Twilight has seen another cat outside, started to hiss and growl...which Monster misinterprets to be about him. It really sucks to see that behaviour amongst your posse.

[BarenakedLady]

14. Hopefully I'll have a peaceful posse soon.

:)

[Critters2]

8. Among other things, invisible fencing doesn't work.

You're gonna need a real fence, as you've already learned.

[BarenakedLady]

9. Fences aren't allowed in this neighborhood.

Invisible fencing has worked for the past 8 years with these two, just in a different place.

[Critters2]

11. Oh. One of those neighborhoods. Another reason I'll never live

in a suburb. If I own a yard, I'll decide whether or not to fence it. And I have a beagle, so yes, I'll have a fence. I never understand why people put up with such bullshit.

[BarenakedLady]

13. Because my choices were limited to a house I could afford.

We don't always get what we want and have to make do with what we have.

[Obama2012]

18. How well they work depends on the dog

I tried it, and my dog was terrified of it. Waste of money. He goes out on a long chain. The other goes out loose, but supervised. One day, I'll get a 6' fence put in. I can't afford it now, so it'll just be the chain and supervision for now.

[flvegan]

15. How's it been since "the other day" and that tussle?

[BarenakedLady]

19. Relatively calm.

[flvegan]

22. In my opinion

it may have simply been an odd series of events. As easy as it would be to suggest that it's because of the new place, when a pack moves, the roles dogs play in a pack don't really change. I very much doubt it was any sort of re-establishment of dominance, although nothing is really totally out of the question. If that *were* the case, we'd hear of owners being attacked by their own dogs when they move. Since it's been a short while, it would appear that you're past the tussling for now.

I don't know what to tell you about the electric fence. They definitely need to be trained to stay within the confines of the yard either by yourself or whomever can come out and do that sort of thing. I don't have a lot of experience with those fences so I don't have much to add, sorry.

[BarenakedLady]

23. Well, in my opinion

You should come and train my dogs for me.

:evilgrin:

[flvegan]

24. I respect your opinion

and would love to. Do you have somewhere I can sleep? It might take a while, and I want to do it to your fullest satisfaction.

[BarenakedLady]

26. Oh yes.

I'm sure I could find a spot for you to "sleep".

O8)

[flvegan]

30. I hope it's not a cold, lonely spot.

[BarenakedLady]

31. Of course not.

Warm and...cozy.

[flvegan]

32. Cozy?

How cozy?

[BarenakedLady]

33. Verra

verra verra cozy. Like a soft warm blanket.

[flvegan]

34. Do you have

a couple extra pillows? I like to have my arms wrapped around...well, something while I sleep.

[BarenakedLady]

35. Just me

Sorry, the pillows are all being slept on by the dogs. You'll have to wrap your arms around me. So sorry for the inconvenience.

[flvegan]

36. Now

we're talking! What will you be wearing?

I need to know so that I can color coordinate, honest.

[BarenakedLady]

37. Flesh tones

I'd go with flesh tones

[flvegan]

39. I don't think

I'm going to get any sleep tonight, now that I'm thinking about...uh, nevermind.

[BarenakedLady]

40. Thank you

And goodnight. I'll still respect you in the morning. ;)

[TEXASYANKEE]

16. More Cesar-like advice

In fact, Cesar did a show about a German Shephard acting much like your more-aggressive dog. Basically it would seem that dominance has not been established in your new house. It was established in your old house (where you said aggressive behavior was only occasional and minor) but it's now in flux. How do you take control? With the GS, Cesar made the owners start over. They had to take the dog on a long walk and then introduce it to the house again. It wasn't allowed in until they invited it. It wasn't allowed on the couch until they invited it. It wasn't allowed upstairs until they invited it. Over and over and over again, until the dog firmly understood that it was the follower.

Your Emma should never have been allowed to be alpha dog. YOU are the alpha dog.

[KurtNYC]

17. possibly the new environment has created

some type of situational/resources conflict between them. Dogs that are fine with each other can go back to nipping each other if you introduce something they both want -- a tennis ball, food in only one dish, etc. Hard to know what could have set her off without seeing what preceded the fight.

[DeepBlueC]

20. you might have to assert yourself as the alpha

that's what that little creep Cesar would whisper. Does he whisper? No, never.

[BarenakedLady]

21. Hehehehe

I am the alpha...I guess Emma thinks she's second in command, though she listens to kids too. Anyway, she definately wants Ben to know he is the lowest dude on the totem pole. He's as dumb as a bag of rocks too, the poor dear.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. WWTDWD?

I think the dog whisperer would know, but then you'd have to be on television letting us into your house to find out.

[BarenakedLady]

28. Are we talking about the freakishly white toothed Cesar again?

I may prefer the British chick with the cool car and boots.

[MrMickeysMom]

38. Yeah, but Cesar does that "chttch" thing with his finger so well

... sending them dogs into pack leader zombie like states, ready to be led around again.

Poor things. :-(

[DarkTirade]

27. Judging from the title I thought you were going to be asking for advice

dealing with the ex. :P

[BarenakedLady]

29. Ohhhhh snap!

Score one for the Service Star of the Week.

:P