Am I wrong to be offended by prayer in the workplace?

[alarimer]

We had a going-away party for someone who is retiring and prior to eating, some insisted that we all hold hands and say grace. WTF? This is a state government office and I feel that this is certainly an offensive thing to do, because not every one is a Christian. I personally am an atheist and this offends me on so many levels that I am thinking of going to HR with it. What I want is some kind of blanket condemnation of this practice (and it happens with this group at EVERY gathering, whether it is on state property or not).

And holding hands is just fucking beyond the pale. These people are barely my friends and I don't want to hold their fucking hands.

Many of these people who participated are not, so far as I know, even religious. I know my boss isn't. Yet they went along with it. I cannot bring myself to do that at all. So I made myself scarce. I know I am a scary atheist who probably eats puppies but there it is.

I cannot in good conscience "go along to get along". Not with this bullshit.

[backwoodsbob]

1. most of the time they dont bother me...but

I wouldn't have done that.

Go to H.R. and ask what the policy is and if it will be enforced

[HopeHoops]

2. I've been in that situation. I scoot my chair back and let the sheep reach through my spot.

Fuck that shit.

[alarimer]

6. This is so typical of Christians (especially here in Texas)

Another reason why I want to leave this place for somewhere sane.

They just love to force their beliefs on everybody else. They assume (much like right-wingers do) that everyone thinks just like them. There are no Jews or Hindus or Buddhists and there couldn't possibly be any atheists. Fucking arrogant shitheads.

[HopeHoops]

9. Back in 83 or so, I worked for a place where "EST" was a requirement for advancement.

Well, for the women, I think there was a bit more that was "expected". Nasty place.

If you didn't go to the EST brainwashing retreats, you were an outcast. No bonus, no advancement. No anything. They treated women like shit. I got back at them.

It was a government contracting company. My timesheet was always altered to bill me to whatever project had open funds. I doubt it ever reflected the work I did on any particular project.

All government projects eventually find their way into acronyms. I secured a new job with a start date two months out just at the time my boss gave me the assignment to write a new database. Of course, he had no concept of what it was supposed to do, so he told me to "just make it look like the last one."

I wrote it, as best I could with the help of the guys at Lockheed. On every page I spelled out "Test Interface Tracking System". Two months of this. I gave two weeks notice and moved on. It was TWO FUCKING MONTHS LATER that my asshole boss burst into my former coworker's office and yelled "THAT FUCKING ASSHOLE!" Apparently, someone had decided to put "Test Interface Tracking System" into an acronym. It would have taken less than an hour to edit all of the pages, but it was worth the last great act of defiance. You have to be pretty fucking stupid not to catch that for four months!

[MadMaddie]

20. ha, ha, ha... that's funny!

[hamsterjill]

52. I hear what you are saying.

Please know, however, that there really are some of us who are both Christians and Texans - and we DO believe that everyone has a right to believe (or not believe) as they choose, and we DON'T go around trying to persuade others to conform to our own set of beliefs.

I can relate. I'm a staunch Democrat surrounded (literally) by staunch Republicans! But just wanted to share that some of us in Texas try real hard to go against the stereotype.

[Pool Hall Ace]

3. Hmmm . . . I don't know

Who actually leads the prayer? And remember that not everyone who prays is a Christian (I'm not). I understand your reluctance, though, particularly to hold hands.

I think what I would be tempted to do is just clasp my hands in front of me, just as a way to politely refuse to hold hands with others. Then just silently stand there until the prayer is over. How often does this take place?

My biggest concern is that I would hate to see you lose your job over this if you took this to HR.

[alarimer]

5. The thing is this is a state office building.

I actually think it is against the law to do this.

In this case, it was led by someone who doesn't work there. But on other occasions it has been led by one of our bosses.

Arguably, you could say this was a lunchtime event, when people were technically off the clock. Still I hate the coercive feeling of it.

I think I am going to find out the policy on this.

[orleans]

36. these fundies--how annoying they use any excuse to put their

belief system on everyone else

(i know this might read like i'm being very sarcastic--i'm not. i really do think they jump at any excuse. it would piss me the fuck off too. i'd go to h.r. & inquire)

[Arugula Latte]

4. I used to work in a small office with a fundy boss who did that.

I got the hell out of there. Fuck that. It's totally offensive and not appropriate in a work situation.

[Bucky]

11. Ha! I used to work at a homeless shelter that that did that. They asked me once to offer a prayer.

Invoked the Goddess. They prayed along with respectfully. They never asked again.

:rofl:

[Chemisse]

17. Excellent!

Now they know how it feels to be obliged to go along with a religious practice they don't believe in. Its' not fun.

[Arugula Latte]

48. Love it!

:thumbsup:

[Deep13]

7. You are never wrong to feel what you feel.

Emotions are neither good nor bad. And, yeah, WTF does prayer have to do with an office, especially a state office?

[Gormy Cuss]

8. "Thinking" about going to H.R.? What are you waiting for, another prayer circle?

If someone "insisted" that everyone hold hands to say grace, that's way over the line. Asking if anyone would like to say grace is acceptable if it's done in a casual way and the person offering knows that others in the office would be comfortable saying grace. Otherwise, it's just really lame proselytizing.

[Bucky]

10. Sounds like you're an outlier

In most communities, religion is meant to build bonds & social cohesion. Undoubtedly that was what the hand-joining was all about. Sadly, it's taken on a coercive character these days. It didn't use to be that way. What a shame. I'm sorry you felt like an outsider at your job; that's gotta suck.

[alarimer]

13. And I sort of feel that if I make waves, I will never get anywhere.

Other than where I am right now. It is not part of my personality to go along to get along (which may be another part of the problem, it's true) but living here is Texas I am confronted with "not belonging" on a daily basis. I am a liberal in town chock full of conservatives. I am an atheist living among the religiously insane.

[Bucky]

15. If you don't mind my axing, how'd you end up in a town you feel so out of sorts with?

[alarimer]

19. For my job.

At the time the job I had paid poorly and had no benefits so this was a leap forward. I don't think that I can afford to be picky about where I live. There just are not that many jobs out there in my field that I can afford to pick and choose.

[musette_sf]

25. + 1

[awoke_in_2003]

81. "I am an atheist living among the religiously insane"

I share your pain. Several years ago I went to work for a training center that had the words "Higher Power" n their name. I only did it because I knew the Dutch company I used to work for was going to buy us out. It was a tricky, and uncomfortable, year.

[rcrush]

12. Is there usually an anonymous number you can call?

I worked at a place that had one. Everyone was afraid of it lol.

[BuelahWitch]

14. No, you aren't wrong, it's not appropriate

Especially if it's a government office. "Hostile work environment" does not just apply to sexual harassment.

[abq e streeter]

16. not wrong whatsoever--and this coming from someone who prays every night

and joined in a VOLUNTARY "prayer circle" at work last year ( after hours, and it truly was voluntary,; no real or implied pressure on anyone) for a co-worker loved by all of us who'd been diagnosed with advanced cancer. I'm a believer ( in my own interpretation of certain spiritual realities) who is also a firm believer in the separation of church and state. If this had happened once, I guess I could see letting it go; these people meant no harm...but the fact that it happens at "every gathering"? Absolutely inappropriate.

[TheKentuckian]

18. Do you feel pressured to participate or that there will be a negative impact on you?

Otherwise, the same thing that prevents that also preserves their right to practice as they will.

[lukasahero]

21. From someone who used to work in HR:

Go to HR about this. Let go of the part about holding hands - group prayer is sufficient.

People do not have to tolerate situations that make them uncomfortable and, even though most people were polite enough to go along, HR should put a stop that bs right quick. (Most HR groups understand that a lawsuit to the organization is much worse than pissing off some religious idiot.)

[pink-o]

22. Unfortunately, as I found out the hard way, the 1st amendment doesn't hold at the workplace.

But if you feel pressured, harassed, or in any way threatened that your job could be on the line unless you go along with a policy you are against, then by all means, call the ACLU. Your situation sounds exactly like what they exist for.

[alarimer]

23. Well I was thinking all I have to do is show up late to these things.

That way I miss all this without actually having to explain how uncomfortable I am or make a big fuss. But that's probably a bit cowardly.

[pink-o]

26. Oh, hell no. Not cowardly at all--in these days we need to keep our jobs

..and unfortunately, sometimes we need to go along to get along. It's better to be employed and able to pay the mortgage, than to stand on principle and get your house taken away!

[hippywife]

61. I believe there is protection

under the equal employment act that does apply here.

[musette_sf]

24. i did some work down in Clear Lake at NASA back in the 90s

and was HORRIFIED to find a flyer posted in a public workplace area for an upcoming Billy Graham crusade.

un. ue. lievable.

completely inappropriate in my view.

[elshiva]

27. Please go to HR. No prayers at work, at least no audible, public ones.

When I worked at the public library, the supervisor was very clear, no prayers or evangelizing at work in the library at all. We had staff lunches and parties, but NEVER prayers over food. There are plenty of ways to bring to people together that do not involve religion. At the workplace, the common task to get the work done well should bring people together.

[seemunkee]

28. My boss did something similar

Shortly after starting at my job we went out to get some breakfast and took it back to his office. I'm sitting there with him and a contractor, who goes to his church. I have my sandwich halfway to my mouth when they fold their hands and he starts this long ass prayer. I didn't move except for my jaw hitting the desk. The look on my face must have given them the message because they have never done it again when I'm around.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

29. I don't think you are wrong.

Being a state government office I'm surprised that it would even come up. A visit to HR is the correct course of action, in my opinion.

[ZombieHorde]

30. No, those people are freaks. Watch your back. nt

[alarimer]

31. Well they are freaks but not in a good way.

Well some anyway. We were sending off someone I really didn't get along with very well.

Actually I have an idea for when (if) I ever leave and if they give me a going-away. Then I will do the prayer and it will be a doozy. Anything but Christian, just to give them a taste of their own medicine.

[MajorChode]

40. Erect a huge phallic statue in the break room....

and have everyone join hands and pray to the glorious dick-god while you sacrifice a live chicken.

Make your request in writing to management beforehand and if they refuse, sue them for religious discrimination.

[donheld]

32. Prayer circle jerks should be saved for OUTSIDE work.

We don't all pray the the same god, some not to any god, that should be done elsewhere.
It can be a kind of harrassment. If I refuse to pray is my job performance
gonna be judged according to my prayer stance?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

33. In this case, I'd say no

I'd find it really presumptuous too.

That said, I don't have a problem with people praying on their own, or even as a group, provided they are discreet about their assembly.

My dad worked in a government office with a devout Muslim who brought his prayer mat and turned toward Mecca at noon every day. The gentleman never disturbed anyone, nor did he attempt to push his beliefs on anyone else at the office. I was deeply touched when he offered a Muslim prayer at my father's funeral service. There again, he wasn't asking anyone to pray with him.

[Kali]

34. No you are not wrong.

Shit, I'm offended with it at social occasions.

[astral]

35. What's wrong with just bowing out and not participating

and let those who want to do this do as they wish?

Are you people going to ban anyone from praying anywhere you can see them? Only allow praying in church or in their home basement?

Many people see the power in group prayer and just the spiritual unity force it represents, and many people who do not particularly believe in God can believe in this unity and one-ness in people's power when praying together, and ESPECIALLY for a loved co-worker who will no longer be able to be gathered among them.

I do not see why just because you do not feel fond of these people nor want to touch their hands that you should force them to not do as they please without your hands being involved in the process.

The other people who "WENT ALONG WITH IT" most LIKELY did not share your feelings on the issue. Ask them, if you dare.

[alphafemale]

38. "Ask them, if you dare."

You See. That attitude. Right there. Is pretty much it.

Do Not Dare. Go. Against. The. "Christians."

[MajorChode]

39. Because it forces people to declare their beliefs or lack thereof

Asking people to pray in the workplace is proselytizing and is not the same as someone praying on their own. It's not even close.

I could care less if someone wants to pray on their own. I could even care less if they wanted to sacrifice a barnyard animal on a pentagram in the parking lot. But ask me to participate? Not only is it not cool, it's also probably a pretty good civil rights case for the employer to condone it.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. If you worked for a company that was ran by and employed a majority of Muslims and they asked you 3 times per shift if you want to prostrate yourself eastward and pray to Allah, are you honestly going to say you feel good about your prospects if you decline?

[JonLP24]

42. That's how I feel about the issue

During my deployment in Kuwait/Iraq after every mission brief and before every convoy no matter who the convoy commander was we had a group prayer conducted with kevlars off and holding on to each other. Of course you could opt out but I would always feel like the odd man out doing so. There was only one other soldier that refused to participate and he was more liberal then anyone I ever met in the Army.

It was some months after deployments when I was going through some personal problems as well as depression/anxiety when a SSG called me into the platoon's office. He also conducted every prayer on convoys I was with him and his call sign was "reverend"(He wasn't actually a reverend)

He said to me several times, "You're AWOL." I'm like "I'm standing right here, how can I be AWOL?" He then told me I was "Absent without the lord." I didn't want to argue with him really but he was trying to convince me my life will get better if I get 'saved'. Anyways I argued a little about some flaws I believe in the bible but he was really a nice guy and wouldn't back off so I tried to be nice I went through the saving process to just be done with it.

[MajorChode]

47. What you've described is a classic case of illegal religious discrimination

The military has a big problem with that issue right now and they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in EEO complaints and lawsuits on the civilian side and they are facing numerous costly lawsuits on the military side. All because some idiots in the military believe they are exempt from the Constitution and civil rights legislation.

[LeftyMom]

43. I'd be uncomfortable being reminded that my coworkers were irrational

enough to believe in a "spiritual unity force" or some bullshit like that. Personally I prefer to do work at work, and would prefer that any coworkers who want to pray/meditate/sacrifice a chicken do so on their own time.

Prayer allows people to feel important and involved while doing absolutely nothing. If coworkers want to come together to love and honor a deceased colleague, a better bet is to do something charitable in that person's memory, or chip in to do something to help their survivors, rather than standing around and making a big production of being pious and mumbling at the ceiling.

[jonnyblitz]

45. "Prayer allows people to feel important and involved while

doing absolutely NOTHING" EXACTLY!! :thumbsup:

i would put that bumpersticker on my car.

[LanternWaste]

55. Self delete

Self delete

[MajorChode]

37. No, and it's fucking stupid for the employer to condone it

If someone wants to pray in their own cubicle, more power to them, but when they are compelling others to join in, and management knows about it, they are seriously setting themselves up for a shitstorm.

All someone has to do is complain that they didn't get some promotion or they got fired for their religion or lack thereof. Then as evidence they cite the group prayer sessions conducted with management's full knowledge and consent. Whether their claim has any validity or not, it still makes the company look like a bunch of fucking morons in front of the administrative law judge and calls into question their judgment.

[Heidi]

41. They're doing it wrong.

Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

[emdistortion]

44. I'm religious but even I would be offended.

It's just the wrong time and wrong place for that sort of activity. I would bring it up with HR, that's what they get paid for. I mean, holding hands?, that's even unsanitary. If someone wants to pray before a meal they can do it by themselves quietly like I do whenever I'm out eating with friends. What I do in my own mind is my business but when it comes to obligatory/peer pressure that's where I draw the line.

[DFW]

46. Yes, you're wrong--unless you DON'T work in a cathedral.........

In which case, I'd be pissed as hell.

[LeftyFingerPop]

49. No, it is not "wrong", you believe what you believe after all, however,

It is probably "wrong" to belittle the beliefs of others like I see every fucking time religion is mentioned on DU.

And I don't want to hear that the "Christians force their beliefs down my throat".

Just because they are praying does not mean that they are forcing you to do so.

If you don't want to participate, then don't. It is certainly your choice.

[newcriminal]

51. +1

[alarimer]

63. What they did was certainly in poor taste, if not actually against the law.

As others have said, there are many ways of creating a hostile work place and open prayer is one of them. It is as unwelcome and intrusive as talking about your sex life or the latest operation. It is very similar to sexual harassment, in that people go along with things they may be uncomfortable with, just to keep the peace. And that is so very wrong.

It isn't simply a matter of walking away. It is a matter of standing up against these fucking assholes.

Yes they ARE forcing their religion on everyone else. It was a very particular, sectarian form of "grace". They are completely and utterly contemptible for doing so.

If you cannot see what is wrong with that, then you are just as addled as they are.

[newcriminal]

66. I'm talking about here in the lounge not necessarily at work:

"It is as unwelcome and intrusive as talking about your sex life or the latest operation."

Which happens all the time in the work place and I never see any threads stating how awful it is to have to hear about so and so's operation. But bring up religion in the lounge and all christians are idiots that force their religion on you. I'm really tired of hearing about it.

Here in the lounge Christians are the one minority that you can bash the hell out of and get supported. Try that with any minority, you pick it, be it race or homosexuality, and you would be torn apart and probably banned. Religion on the other hand is fair game. I just don't understand why Christians aren't given the same respect. It's getting old.

[LeftyFingerPop]

67. What would have been wrong with doing the following?

1) Stating that you don't pray.

2) Stating that you will hold hands and bow your head to wish good thoughts to the departing employee, even though you do not consider it to be a prayer.

By doing this, you got your point across. wished the employee well, kept your blood pressure down, and did a nice thing.

Instead, like most issues presented on DU, you made a huge deal over people's differences, when none needed to be made.

[LanternWaste]

50. I get offended by public prayer

I get offended by office prayers, people on their cell phones, stale coffee in the break room, smelly co-workers, birthday parties with cake, bad parking jobs in the company lot, the office couple engaging in pillow-talk, and any post-1982 music turned up to the point where I can hear it, combative attitudes for petulant reasons... oh, and off-color jokes too.

ed: sp

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. Your headline is kind of ambiguous - private prayer is one thing, forced public prayer another

But the anecdote you relate is much more clear: no, you are not at all out of place to be offended by such a wanton, coercive display of forced prayer. If it is making you that uncomfortable (and it clearly is), you should complain to a higher up. Since you work at a state government office, you have even more cause to complain, because even in Texas I am sure there are laws which regulate religion-based discrimination in the workplace. If I were you I'd become conversant with those so that you are prepared to illustrate exactly how illegal that 'prayer circle' is if push comes to shove.

[MajorChode]

57. The laws are federal

Specifically the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended.

Edit: sp

[SidneyCarton]

54. No, you're not wrong.

I am religious, and I don't pray in public, nor do I demand anyone else do so. This is particulary egregious in a State gov't building. The United States has no established church, and none are authorized to do so.

And should anyone give you any difficulties on the subject, regale them with this gem:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." (Matthew 6:5-6)

[TreasonousBastard]

56. What workplace? This was a retirement party, and only...

the retiree has a right to be offended. If he's part of the prayer group, his wishes should be respected-- at least to the extent that the rest of you don't go to war over it.

You didn't like it? Well, OK, and if it was a daily ritual or something work-related, you could certainly assume the risk of making a stink and trying to stop it. But, you never know if this group will hand your ass to you if you try-- is the job worth sucking it up and just letting it pass?

[MajorChode]

58. The OP was specific that the activity happens in the workplace

Even if the specific event in question happened away from the workplace it could still be considered work related under a variety of circumstances.

But that is the choice that many have to face which is whether to complain or not, and unfortunately standing up for your rights sometimes does have negative consequences because some people can't accept or at least "go along" with the law.

[astral]

59. there is no forced prayer in a group of people who want to pray

together. If there are some in the room who don't want to participate, so what? They don't have to. Coming back to this thread tonite something occurred to me that didn't occur to me last night. I note that the majority (?) well, a bunch of you here think it's weird and unsanitary for people to stand in a circle and hold hands and pray. To me it seemed like the most natural thing in the world for like-minded people.

Know what I bet happened here? I bet some of these people were in recovery together and they just came together in heart and spirit and did something together that they didn't even have to think twice about doing. Some bystanders may have decided to go along with it, while others went "ewe, what weirdos!" -- at least inside their heads.

When I was a kid in the 60's, sometimes we would have friends over who were used to praying at dinner. My parents were not, but were AWARE that their friends were religious. In fact, sometimes I'd hear them say something to each other about the friends who were coming over being religious, as if to remind each other they would have to remember not to just sit down and pick up their forks and dig in -- but allow a respectful moment of heads-bowed silence while the visitors who wanted to bless the food before eating did their prayer out loud, for the benefit of all of us, even us heathens.

Seems to me being in a room full of people who want to have a prayer is kinda like being in a bar full of people who want to have a drink -- you don't tell everybody to stop drinking just because you don't imbibe.

People offer you a cigarette, you don't smoke? You just say no. Drink? No, I don't drink. Wanna pray? No, I don't do religion. Or just no thank you.

I don't think the repression is fair.

[MajorChode]

60. The part you're missing is this is a work environment

Analogies may be useful in simplifying some things, but the risk you run into when you overuse them is fallacious apples and oranges comparisons. You can't compare a home or social environment to the work environment in such a fashion. People have the option of who they do and don't invite into their home. People have the option to go to bars or other social gathering sites. People don't really have the option of not going to work.

In the workplace something called conditions of employment come in to play. You don't always have the option of non-participation and even if you do sometimes it's not the best career move to exercise such an option. So while nobody is getting chained to a chair and "forced" to participate, they may very well feel coerced into doing so. That's exactly what can lead to legal problems for the employer which is why many discourage such practices. It's a very fine line they have to walk because they can also get into trouble for being overly restrictive on employees expressing their religious beliefs.

[hippywife]

62. If it takes place in

the work place or at a work function, it is INAPPROPRIATE. Period. It matters not who the people are or the reasons they wish to do this.

[alarimer]

64. You absolutely do not get it.

This is a fucking OFFICE party, in a STATE office building, in which my boss and his boss both were there and active participants. I cannot tell you how creepy this made me feel. Like my career would suffer if I didn't go along with it. Like I was being judged. People were positively astonished that I refused to participate, like I was some kind of rotten spoilsport to their little group hug. And the holding hands thing was, if possible, even creepier than the god-bothering. I was cajoled and admonished for not going along (not, fortunately by the powers that be but by one of the visitors or I might actually be making a federal case of it).

It was beyond inappropriate. It was harassment, the creation of a hostile workplace. It's a gray area because this was, technically, lunchtime, but it was still in the office.

[hippywife]

65. I work in a similar environment

we have quarterly employee meetings led with prayer. I don't like to attend them because they are stupid "team-building" exercises playing childish games. Someone started giving me a cajoling about not going and I made it clear that I believe attending such a meeting led with prayer is not a requirment according to the EEOC, and being forced to participate is grounds for a complaint. (Check me on this, tho, I beleive it is accurate.) No one has bothered me about it since and it's been years.

ETA: Damn spelling!

[madeline_con]

75. Can you email the head office about it? Anonymously.

Maybe a memo to the boss from the big guys might help.

[gbate]

80. I have been in this situation. It really is better to just stand there and not say anything

than it would be to make a stink.

[MissMillie]

69. I think that businesses, as well as schools, should avoid

putting anybody on the spot about their personal religious beliefs (with the only exception being people who are in the business of running churches).

Therefore, if someone wants to pray, they can sit at their desk (or stand at the copier, or even ride the elevator alone) and pray silently to themselves.

When group prayer is what is wanted, do that at home or in church.

No one should have to reveal, through inclusion or exclusion, what their religious affiliations (or lack thereof) are.

[astral]

74. That is exactly what I said you (the group you) would say

"""Therefore, if someone wants to pray, they can sit at their desk (or stand at the copier, or even ride the elevator alone) and pray silently to themselves."""
____________________________________________________

I do not believe people have the right to make people HIDE their group prayers any more than somebody should have to hide being gay around a straight person who might find their being gay 'offensive.'

The separation of church and state was never intended to push religion entirely out of the group conscious mind as if it is a dirty thing.

Group prayer works and it is powerful and nobody has the right to say people have no right to pray right out where other people who don't happen to pray can see them. It has nothing to do with Offending the Separation of Church and State.

Perhaps the human resources office would say there are no displays of religious belief allowed in the workplace, but I think perhaps the black and white line does not exist on that level.

Maybe I'm wrong and stupid on this subject, but I just don't get it. It's not HARMFUL for people to have different beliefs and express themselves in different ways. It is not HARMFUL for a non-believing person to see or hear a believing person pray. It's not a contagious disease.

Look at how the tables have been turned in just one generation on what is acceptable and what is not. What IS acceptable -- movies and shows kids get to watch of people engaging in the sex act, teachings about witchcraft and popularization of shows directed at kids on this subject, and movies all over hell and back about satanism -- and the one thing that people want to shelter their kids (and themselves) from is religious people?

What about people who find Halloween offensive, and kids and adults celebrating what is known as Satan's holiday -- is that offensive to anyone in the workplace?

I'm sure it is, and I'm sure it is banned in some workplaces, and yes I'm sure it's All In Fun. But don't you see the hypocrisy in how we treat SOME kinds of differences differently than others?

I stand by my belief that these people had every right to do what they did under the circumstances, and whoever finds it offensive has every right to take offense -- but that does not give them the right to demand the behavior be stopped because they find it offensive.

[MissMillie]

76. I think it can be VERY harmful

to workplace and school place productivity to encourage activities that announce people's differences to the norm--especially on such a personal issue. While group prayer is not intended to single out people who don't want to participate, it does indeed have that effect. And it's not just a bad feeling for the person who feels like the bastard at a family reunion. It's likely that those who feel strongly in favor of prayer will behave differently towards a person who refuses to participate.

I don't suggest that anyone hide their faith. Wear a cross around your neck if you want to, or one on your tie tack. Put a picture of Jesus on your desk if you so desire. Play spiritual music at your desk (so long as it doesn't interrupt anyone's concentration). Read your bible in the lunch room.

But activities that single out differences of such deeply personal conviction--and that have absolutely no bearing to the work being done at the particular place of business--are not conducive to a productive work environment.


As for Halloween, it's not an issue about it being offensive. No one ever gets blasted for NOT decorating their office space or not handing out candy. Same with people who don't join in when a group of employees buys a bunch of lottery tickets together, or start a football pool. These activities don't have the same affect of singling people out for being different, and making those who have been singled-out the target for gossip, ridicule, or disdain. And those who are offended by other people's involvement in those activities have every right (as you said) to be offended. But NO ONE is asking them to participate or to single themselves out by NOT participating.

Offensive really doesn't have anything to do with why prayer doesn't belong there, despite the fact that this is what the poster was asking. Yeah, he has the right to be offended. But more importantly, he has the right not to be put on the spot about his religious beliefs or lack thereof.

[MissMillie]

68. I think it's fine for you to be offended

But I'm thinking that you'll be in for a big fight if you try to get them to stop their behavior.

Now, if you're up for the fight (if you're going to do the fighting only you can decide whether it's worth fighting for), then I say go for it.

Otherwise, I would consider looking for a different job--and no, I do not take the current employment situation lightly when I say that.

[tigereye]

70. yeah, esp if 1. it's a govt workplace, and 2. not everyone is a Christian

[Beer Snob-50]

71. i wouldn't be offended by it

i simply wouldn't do it.

[datasuspect]

72. i've done this before when people do stupid shit like that:

when they say their prayers, I loudly recite Adhan in Arabic.

it's a surefire conversation starter, especially when i say their religion is a lie and it offends God.


4x Allah-u Akbar God is greater than any description
2x Ash-hadu alla ilaha illallah Testify that there is no god but God
2x Ash-hadu anna Muhammadar-rasul ullah I testify that Muhammad is God's Messenger
2x Ash-hadu anna Aliya wali-ul-lah I bear witness that Ali is the vice regent of God *
2x Hayya 'alas-salat Hasten to prayers
2x Hayya 'alal-falah Hasten to deliverance
2x Hayya 'ala Khair 'il-'amal Hasten to the best act
2x Allah-u Akbar God is greater than any description
2x La ilaha illallah There is no god but Allah

[Skittles]

73. certainly it is inappropriate at work

if it's quick and not ultra-intrusive religious stuff I give it a pass - but the hand holding, that's a bit much

[gbate]

77. It is wrong to assume that everyone prays. However, sometimes you have to suck it up.

Fake it.

[keroro gunsou]

78. i wouldn't be offended

annoyed is as far on the emotional spectrum that would get me.

i did however participate in one of those at a former job. ye old fundy boss let us take turns praying before the company picnic (we had several per year), so when it was my turn, i offered up this:

"rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub."

oddly enough i was never asked to do that again... wonder why.

on the plus side, at least the boss didn't hold it against me. he knew i was a lapsing catholic when he hired me. hired me for my skills, not my religion. too bad the rest of my coworkers weren't as understanding as he was. i sought employment elsewhere just to get away from the people in the office before i let them have too much of a piece of my mind. and i am not known for my patience (or restraint) when dealing with people like that.

[Orsino]

79. It's bad enough when peers seize on a captive audience to demand lip service to their faith...

...but in a work environment, where there are different power levels, it seems particularly toxic. When the office belongs to the goddamned government? Unconscionable.

:wtf:

[KamaAina]

82. Not unless you work in a church or other place of worship.

:grr:

[rainbow4321]

83. I went to a blood drive at my workplace and a tech was singing

religous SONGS loud enough that no matter where you were in the auditorium you heard her. Yes, I was offended. I think she noticed when I turned and glared cuz I saw her kinda of do a "I don't care" shrug to her co worker. We are a county hospital with a VERY diverse population so the odds of someone being offended or put off were pretty high.
Wouldn't you know it, who ends up being my tech but her. She started it again but then a guy who looked like her supervisor made eye contact with her and put his finger up to his lips in a "shhhh" motion.