So what exactly does an average "normal" woman look like?

[SidneyCarton]

As I was walking back from class today, I thought of this? From our earliest days we are spoonfed ideas about the supposed "ideal" feminine body type, which can't help but shape our perceptions of this issue, yet how much do the women I passed on the way back to the Library actually resemble the air-brushed, surgically-enhanced women of mass media? And yet, all of these women grew up with these images too, and have styled their own appearance either in conformance, or resistance to these images. So I ask, what does an average woman really look like?

[MissMillie]

1. The "average" woman is 5'5" tall and wears a size 14

I'm guessing that most women have brown hair (the gene for brown hair is dominant) and brown or green eyes.

As for what is "normal"... I couldn't begin to venture a guess.

[SidneyCarton]

3. Ok, I see what you're saying.

But what does a brunete who is 5'5 and a size 14 look like? They seem to be sadly lacking from my perspective. In fairness, my University is heavily slanted toward Asians in demographics, so the average here would likely skew accordingly.

Or in translation: This example needs pictures.

[NMDemDist2]

35. this is probably close

or this for america



but this one is probably closer LOL

[omega minimo]

36. Your laughing but that last photo is REAL women.

And they factor into what is "the average woman."

[Captain Hilts]

43. Size 34 waist. nt

[Lyric]

55. Green eyes are actually rarer than blue eyes.

So brown or hazel would be more likely. Even blue is more common than green. :)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear SidneyCarton...

There is no such thing as "normal."

:P

[SidneyCarton]

4. Fair enough, normal was a poor choice of words on my part.

But you get my point, the demonstrated "norm" as given by mass media, skews heavily from the demographic "norm" MissMillie noted above. It's weird to realize that your whole generation looks nothing like what it has been sold.

[sarge43]

7. Nothing new about this

My generation had to look like Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn. Many tried, very few succeeded.

[SidneyCarton]

8. Sad thing is, people today would call Marilyn fat, and her face and newest weight struggles

would be all over the tabloids. Not sure what they'd do with Audrey Hepburn, but I doubt I'd be able to stomach it.

[sarge43]

10. No doubt

Whispers or bellows of Hepburn the arexic

[Odin2005]

33. I think it's pathetic. I LIKE "curvy" women.

I don't get what is so attractive about ribs and projecting hip-bones.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. The average man and woman may only be explained through the most highly technical of descriptors.

[SidneyCarton]

6. Well that explains so much.

:P

[mitchum]

24. I want those pieces of gear!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. like me.

[SidneyCarton]

11. Interesting...

Having seen pictures, I can actually see where you're going here, and I'm inclined to agree. Though Pri, if you're "average," then average is a good place to be. ;)

[Juche]

12. Average woman is roughly 5'5", 34" waist, size 14

I have no idea about other traits like skin, eyes or hair but I have heard those stats before.

[SidneyCarton]

14. Skin eyes and hair will vary on demographic sample.

The average Swede will likely have blue eyes, and a lighter complexion than the average American, who in turn will look different from the average Namibian.

I would imagine that the average "human" female (a composite of all humanity) would likely be a brunette, with cocoa-brown skin, brown eyes, and the build you describe. Interesting.

[surrealAmerican]

41. So will height and weight.

The average Swedish woman will be taller than the average Chinese woman. The average Hawaiian woman will be heavier than the average Thai woman.

Average and normal are two different things. There is a very wide range of "normal" people.

[AngryAmish]

13. There has been a lot of research on what men find attractive

I'm too lazy to look it up but across cultures men like a certain breast to waist to hip ration. Some cultures like heavier women, some thinner. But a guy in Kansas, a guy and Khazistan and a hunter-gatherer in the Amazon will all more or less agree what women are the most attractive when shown a photo series.

Men also find youthful appearance attractive along with clear skin and symmetrical features.

So there is a lot of conjecture about airbrushing and culture and blah, blah, blah - seek evidence when those claims are made. If examined they are just ascientific blather. For example have rates of eating disorders shot up when photoshop became commonplace? It used to be a long, difficult process to alter a photograph. Look at the fashion magazines of the 70s and compare them to today. Not so much photo retouching then. So was there a spike in the rates when it became widespread in the 90s? That would be science. Maybe even a nice study for a bright college kid to do and get published.

[SidneyCarton]

15. Now that is interesting.

It goes into a whole different train of thought, how much of attraction is hard wired, and how much of it is learned. Your post would argue that the traits we find attractive are hard-wired. Then I have to wonder what those guys on Madison Avenue are thinking. If we don't find the "average" mass-media depiction of women as attractive, why do they persist?

[AngryAmish]

17. They don't sell average

1. Models have to be thin because the clothes look better that way. No bulges pulling the clothes tight, etc. It has no basis in reality. If you ever saw a fashion model up close you they are completely unaverage. Two or three standard deviations from the mean in height, two or three standard deviations in weight (low). They look really strange, but clothes look good on them. Madison avenue sells a fantasy of what clothes look good to women, not sexual attractiveness to men. That is why Playboy models look different than fashion models.

2. We buy the mass-media depiction as attractive because it is. No matter how thin they hit the breast-waist-hip ration, facial symmetry and clear skin. Thinness is just the fashion of the age.

[unpossibles]

30. True, except that imo clothes don't inherently look better on fashion models to me nt

[Juche]

19. Every time we have a thread like that, it turns out bad

On one hand the sociobiologists talk about evolution and attraction, and then some women get upset because they feel that it is being used to justify chauvinism.

Here is an interesting article on attractiveness though. It looks at the role how well you know and like someone plays in attraction.


http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/resources/publications_resources/DSW13.pdf

The effect of nonphysical traits on the perception of physical attractiveness. Three naturalistic studies



What they did was do things like compare attractiveness ratings for individuals when the raters were either strangers or people who knew them. ie, they'd take a yearbook and show photos to strangers but also show photos to people who went to school with them. Or they'd rate attraction based on first impressions during a summer long project, then rate them again at the end of summer (after everyone had gotten to know everyone else). They found that how well you like and respect someone plays a big role (50% or more) in how attractive they are.

Even for men. In one study there was a woman who was rated 3.25/10 on a first impression, but after working with her all summer on a project the same men rated her a 7/10. So her attractiveness doubled just by getting to know her.

And I have known women who physically are 8s or 9s who I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole because of their personalities.



The point is, attraction is complex. Evolution (by making us select the most fertile, fit partners) plays a role but so does personality dynamics (how relatable, nice, understanding, considerate, etc a person is), personal preference (people like different things as individuals), social culture, etc.

[XemaSab]

39. It's certainly true for women and their opinions of men

I've known a bunch of guys who weren't all that hot initially, but after knowing them for a few months... damn.

On the other hand, I've met guys that I thought were hot, but they became boring as soon as they opened their mouths. :P

[SidneyCarton]

21. Guys, as you yourselves have pointed out, the nature-nurture argument produces flamewars...

and little else.

It is clear that part of what makes us think certain things is hard-wired, but we also make choices, and can, to some degree overcome programming. There's no point in drawing hard and fast lines here, we simply don't know yet.

[Juche]

16. Eating disorders supposedly skyrocket in college

http://www.kktv.com/schools/headlines/28335774.html

According to the Eating Disorder Center of Denver, 90 percent of college students who develop an eating disorder do it during their freshmen year.



I don't have the stats onhand, but I have read that the rates shoot up to near 20% for eating disorders in college. Being surrounded by tons of young, attractive, thin women when you are 18 is probably not easy to deal with.

[AngryAmish]

18. Is it because of being surrounded by thin women or other factors

Other people to share your disorder?

General loss of control issues being away from home?

Or does this disease just generally manifest itself in the late teens like heart disease in people's 50s?


Correlation is not causation and teasing out the causation of eating disorders is tough. It may even be a virus. Really.

[Juche]

20. Eating disorders are largely tied into a loss of control, that is my understanding

I have heard something like 3/4 of eating disorder patients have abuse they haven't dealt with, and the disorder gives them control they feel they lack. I have no idea how true that is, but if a lack of control does contribute then being away at college could aggravate the situation.

Which eating disorder are you talking about being due to a virus? I know obesity and schizophrenia may be caused by viruses (at least in part), but I haven't heard of eating disorders being due to a viral infection.

[Bucky]

23. That makes more sense than the "surrounded" thing. I think HS has more thin women.

[AngryAmish]

29. I may be confusing the viral theory of obesity and schitzophrenia and eating disorders

If so, I'm wrong and apologize for spreading bad information.

[Odin2005]

34. 9-6-9 body ratio, symmetrical feature, clear skin.

[Bucky]

22. Some days I look at pictures of the Olson twins and I forget which one is the fat one

But I know it's one of 'em.

[rug]

25. Good a time as any to watch this again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35cr-DvhwY

[BlueJazz]

26. Average looking Woman (Brilliant mind)

http://s20516.gridserver.com/store/images/Jane%20Goodall,%20the%20Woman%20who...jpg

[Amerigo Vespucci]

27. Jessica Alba. Average, "normal" women all look exactly like Jessica Alba.

[omega minimo]

38. Yeah but not as average as

[Amerigo Vespucci]

44. So I will assume you've seen these...

...and if you haven't, don't click on this link at work. Photos are from the Fall/Winter 2009 issue of "Purple" magazine.

http://thesuperficial.com/2009/09/milla_jovovich_completely_nude.php

[omega minimo]

45. Thank I'm not gonna go there. I've always thought she was so gorgeous, had no idea she was a sex

kitten.

[Taverner]

28. She has these chromosomes - they're both shaped like X's

Other than that, average is what's standing in front of you at the moment

[Withywindle]

31. Is that your sig photo or

is Edie Sedgwick your idea of "average"? :D

[Taverner]

40. Is Edie Sedgwick standing right in front of me? (yes its my sig pic :) )

If so I would have to say "SHIT! ZOMBIES! GO FOR THE BRAIN"

[Withywindle]

47. That's a movie I'd like to see.

"Andy Warhol's Zombie Apocalypse"


Complete with re-written Velvet Underground songs. "Oh, but I haven't got the time-time / Too busy nomming on your brains-brains..."

[Taverner]

48. Warhol's Dead

I like it - interesting concept film

Although most of Warhol's movies were crap

He may have been a great artist, and a great foster-er of creative freedom (Velvet Underground, The Factory Girls, etc.) but he was no filmmaker

Still, some of his stuff has influenced film today. If you don't agree, see "Grindhouse: Planet Terror/Death Proof" - they may SAY their inspiration was the 70's B Flick, but I know Warhol is in there too

[Withywindle]

49. Yes - he would be the king of the zombies of course.

Nico would also be very good in it because people couldn't tell the difference at first.

I always thought Warhol's films were better as concepts than to actually WATCH them.

[ThatsMyBarack]

32. Funny you should share this....

I was thinking about this, too, as I was walking from my office to the parking lot--and I passed a super-skinny woman on the way...

[omega minimo]

37. Remember too that the expected standards change decade to decade

We have the misfortune of living in one where women are expected to be anorexic and dress like 70's porn stars.

What I want to know is how anyone young gets laid with this honking, quacking, gargling bizarre vocalization that is trendy now with many young women. How do men deal with this? Is it okay cuz they never listened anyway?

Just the noise coming out of some of these girls faces is enough to cause a stampede.

[Odin2005]

50. Example of the "bizarre vocalization?

:shrug:

[omega minimo]

52. You hear it every day. Ignoring it? HONK HONK QUACK QUACK

I was at a meeting tonight and there were at the least, SEVEN women doing it, all sounding exactly alike, talking nasally and gargling, ALL SOUND EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke:

I've been in at least two public places recently where these girls are HONKING everything they say and completely obliterating any sense of shared space.

:freak:

[Odin2005]

53. Oh, THAT. I always found it a bit cute!

:yoiks:

[SoxFan]

42. Not average or normal

[hunter]

46. Create your own "normal" woman or man here:

http://www.faceresearch.org/demos/average

(Well, their face anyways.)

[Iggo]

51. No such thing.

[Bertha Venation]

54. She looks like me.

Heavy; mousy, badly-cut hair; blue eyes and a happy smile.

[One_Life_To_Give]

56. For people concerned with expressing their individuality

we are awfully obsessed with looking like everybody else.