anybody experienced in sign language?

[Kali]

My brain works in strange ways sometimes. I was just wondering if there are "accents" or regional idioms in signing? I don't know anything about it, although when my kids were younger there were study blocks (in what subject I am not sure) where they learned something - the alphabet and a few greeting type things.

I ask because I had an encounter with a family that has deaf members today. I am trying to sell some extraneous horses and had spoken on the phone a couple times with the daughter of a man who was interested. Turns out that was the reason he didn't use the phone. It was a new experience for me to watch someone who couldn't hear, in the corral and around the animals.

Anyway I hope this isn't coming off like the Asian woodcarver thing, but my experiences with differently abled people is pretty limited. I got to thinking about translating and how you learn to say something and pause while the person translates - it becomes kind of a nice rhythm if everybody is good at it. That reminded me of how I am so bad at picking up accents. That led me to wonder about accents and such with signing.

[noamnety]

1. There are regional and cultural variations in ASL, yep.

Regional signs, regional habits of how far fingers curl in making specific letters, variances in speed or rhythm, kind of like a southern drawl.

There are also signs used more by black or white signers, coming in part from segregated schools.

[Kali]

2. thanks!

interesting - and of course that makes sense, I thought there must be some differences, but wasn't sure how "rigid" the actual hand motions had to be in relation to speech

[noamnety]

3. Well, they aren't really in relation to speech

ASL's its own language, with its own syntax and grammar.

It's like how someone speaking Russian doesn't rigidly follow the word order of English - because it's not the English language.

[Kali]

8. I understand it is actual language and not directly a code for English

- see my post number 7 for my next question.

[KamaAina]

4. Indeed there are.

Hawai'i, for one, has enough of them that they (like local "Pidgin" speech on the other end) form a barrier to mainland interpreters, contributing to an acute interpreter shortage.

If you're interested in Deaf issues, DU can deliver: we have a Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing group!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=381

[Kali]

9. heh, I almost looked for it - figured there must be a group

probably my questions are general enough for lounge at the moment

[yewberry]

5. Yes, somewhat.

You're right, there are regional differences in ASL and certainly regional idiom.

Also, there is a pretty significant difference in translation depending on whether the translator is someone who grew up with spoken English or maybe CODA.

[Kali]

10. had to look that up (CODA)

so in some cases sign could actually be a hearing person's first language? Interesting.

[noamnety]

13. Sign can for sure be a hearing person's first language.

If a hearing child is born to Deaf parents, that's likely going to be the language spoken at home, just like if their parents are nonEnglish speaking immigrants.

Some hearing parents teach their infants sign for other reasons. Infants can learn to communicate their needs in sign significantly earlier (starting at 6-8 months) than they can with spoken language, so it's like a gift to them to let them communicate needs and take part in conversations earlier. It develops the language part of their brain faster and builds intelligence, and they still ending up learning English at the same time or earlier.

Back in the day when the deaf population on Martha's Vineyard was huge (up to 25% in some neighborhoods), hearing people learned to sign because they had to be bilingual there, like how people in areas of Canada might know English and French.

I work at a school that used to have ASL as a second language (even though we had no deaf students). We found that students used it to communicate back and forth regularly - it's pretty handy when you can't hear at a loud school dance, or if you are trying to tell a student running a video camera to zoom in during a performance, without getting your voice on film (ZOOM IN ... WHAT? ... ZOOM IN! ... WHERE'S THE BUTTON??? ... ON TOP OF THE CAMERA!!!")

[Odin2005]

6. Sign languages are just like spoken language, so yes, they do have dialects and idioms.

I'm no expert on sign languages, but I do know that there is no essential difference between spoken languages and sign languages, sign languages just substitute hand movements for vocalizations. They change and develop dialects like any other languages.

There are even families of sign language developing. the largest is the French SL Family, which includes American Sign Language, a descendant of early FSL.

[Kali]

11. are they different enough that they require learnign a "second" language?

see post 7

[Kali]

7. not sure who I should reply to with this one

(and thanks for answering)

I understand from Odin2005's post that there are actually different sign languages? Were they developed separately or are they the result of natural "drift" from one original language? Are they so different as to possibly need translators just between them?

[Odin2005]

12. Yes, the different sign languages are not mutually intelligible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_language#Classification_of_sign_languages

* BSL, Auslan and NZSL are usually considered to belong to a language family known as BANZSL. Maritime Sign Language and South African Sign Language are also related to BSL.<10>

* Japanese Sign Language, Taiwanese Sign Language and Korean Sign Language are thought to be members of a Japanese Sign Language family.

* There are a number of sign languages that emerged from French Sign Language (LSF), or were the result of language contact between local community sign languages and LSF. These include: French Sign Language, Quebec Sign Language, American Sign Language, Irish Sign Language, Russian Sign Language, Dutch Sign Language, Flemish Sign Language, Belgian-French Sign Language, Spanish Sign Language, Mexican Sign Language, Brazilian Sign Language (LIBRAS) and others.

o A subset of this group includes languages that have been heavily influenced by American Sign Language (ASL), or are regional varieties of ASL. Bolivian Sign Language is sometimes considered a dialect of ASL. Thai Sign Language is a mixed language derived from ASL and the native sign languages of Bangkok and Chiang Mai, and may be considered part of the ASL family. Others possibly influenced by ASL include Ugandan Sign Language, Kenyan Sign Language, Philippine Sign Language and Malaysian Sign Language.

* Anecdotal evidence suggests that Finnish Sign Language, Swedish Sign Language and Norwegian Sign Language belong to a Scandinavian Sign Language family.

* Icelandic Sign Language is known to have originated from Danish Sign Language, although significant differences in vocabulary have developed in the course of a century of separate development.

* Israeli Sign Language was influenced by German Sign Language.

* According to a SIL report, the sign languages of Russia, Moldova and Ukraine share a high degree of lexical similarity and may be dialects of one language, or distinct related languages. The same report suggested a "cluster" of sign languages centered around Czech Sign Language, Hungarian Sign Language and Slovakian Sign Language. This group may also include Romanian, Bulgarian, and Polish sign languages.

* Known isolates include Nicaraguan Sign Language, Al-Sayyid Bedouin Sign Language, and Providence Island Sign Language.

* Sign languages of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and Iraq (and possibly Saudi Arabia) may be part of a sprachbund, or may be one dialect of a larger Eastern Arabic Sign Language.