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In this thread, I complain about the fact that no woman has wanted me for years. (Warning: long.)

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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:42 AM
Original message
In this thread, I complain about the fact that no woman has wanted me for years. (Warning: long.)
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 01:47 AM by smalll
So here's my sad and pathetic tale: I now live in a pleasant, leafy corner of our nation's major city. It's rather like living in a small town. But from here it's not that far, even by bicycle, to almost anywhere in our great metropolis. It's the best of both worlds.

I'm 41. A young-looking 41. My "number" came to a halt at a respectable 20 women properly sexed at the age of 35. I haven't had sex in 6 years. It kind of snuck up on me. For most of those years I was working hard, working out, settling in, getting to know the city and my neighborhood better. Getting to know people. Only one real good bar up here, for example. Great place to meet all sorts.

So I was OK with nothing, at least for the first 4 years. I was never a player, so I had no great drive or skill to pick up girls. But this spring, a beautiful but rather crazy 36 year old woman - a young looking 36 - suddenly took a great liking to me. I was suddenly her "flavor of the month" to the extent that it ruffled some feathers amongst some of the more local and more powerful elements.

Oh we never had sex. Not really much if any fooling around at all. But we certainly looked like a new couple to everyone for a while. There was clearly a lot of mutual affection, admiration, and interest. But like I said, she's a little crazy. The hopped-up-on-goofballs type, with far more than her share of life-baggage. Also, OCD. Plus, despite her sexyness and forwardness, and sort of wicked charisma, really rather non-sexual. Despite a wild enough life, for example, at 36 she had only had sex with 10 men. Awfully low number. And she clearly has, amongst everything else, repression issues. Everyone knows that about her. Her last partner, as it were, was over a year ago, the local pick-up artist, a real genius of the game, and it took him a long time to succeed. She often gets nervous in company if sex comes up as a topic of conversation. Oh, and she can't STAND to hear people - anyone, male or female, compliment her obvious beauty/sexyness. She will deny that she has a beautiful body, and hates it really.

So anyway, I was suddenly a hit with her - she came to me, rather than vice versa. It was like the old days, when, not being a player, things happened at least often enough for me, quite naturally, and like sometimes in the old days, the girl came to me, I didn't chase the girl. We were joined at the hip there for a couple of months, in each others arms, living a too-chaste romance.

Oh there was drama, there was butthurt, there were events, there were incidents! There were third-party interests, ruffled feathers, powerful forces arrayed against me as the outsider. There were fights, there were tears. There was a certain infamous week, with events at either end proving to at least my satisfaction that I was "the good guy" in a certain conflict in the little world I find myself. I tried to give her up at one point, because her attention started to fade. She threw me over later, at the end of the summer, once and for all. But even that, in the end, was not so devastating. I had gone without for 6 years, and this girl woke up my heart. I suddenly felt joy, pain, and desire again. I felt, almost, greatful to her. Lets make the attempt, and "put myself out there" as she said I should do. So I had a couple unproductive in-person meetings thanks to the OKCupid, then got a little lazy with that, knowing I can come back to that attempt, say, after the holidays.

Over the past month or more, she and I became "just friends." I knew I had no chance with her, but that was OK -- we enjoy each others company, we started talking more and seeing each other more often, and she's fun. Sometimes I can make her happy. Sometimes I can console her. Occasionally we fight. Plus, she kind of needs a friend outside the power structure that has taken her into it's bosom, because I don't judge her, or try to "improve" her, or crack the emotional whip.

We had been talking a lot. I had been learning a lot about her. Getting to know the history more, beginning to learn the provenance of various pieces of baggage. Plus, she's not dating anyone, is not in love with anyone, she gets her "enthusiasms" but none right now, so it's pretty painless to hang out with her.

But this weekend, she calls me up. We meet at the bar. We hang out for hours, it ends up just us two together, me massaging her here and there, talking intimately about many things. And because she does feel comfortable with me at least that I don't judge, and she knows I also have things one can't be perfectly proud of about my life, and don't lecture her, she gives me the latest revelation out of nowhere:

Yeah, she hasn't had sex in a year or more since Mr. Pick-Up artist's days. Oh, she says, "but I fooled around with someone a couple times since then." Turns out it was twice, turns out the mystery man (which is not Mr. Pick-Up) she's only known from "the neighborhood" for probably a year or two -- this was not a man from her past. He went down on her. On two separate occasions. And she wasn't drunk either at the time. And yes, it had meant nothing to her. I know that's true. And it happened this summer.

So yes, although the news was a little surprising, it wasn't that surprising. Even half-crazy women with relatively low sex drives "get the itch" now and then. And they get it scratched. And I was around at the time. She liked me, she thought I looked good, she found me funny, she told me I had a "hot fucking bod." Why didn't she let me scratch her itch for her? I was there for it. Because fundamentally, even though she did really "like" me for a while (and she came to me first, I hadn't chased after her) when her occasional urge came up, I was entirely undesirable, unattractive, un-sex-worthy.

Major butthurt. Trust me, I'm a young-looking 41. Maybe at one point I'll put up a picture. Women may find me handsome enough, fit enough, fun enough, funny enough, and fundamentally good enough. But they are no longer attracted to me. So suddenly, this girl has gone from being a wake-up call to the heart who made me want to "get myself out there" to someone who has driven a final nail in the coffin of any hopes I have for affection. I had had some hope, because after all, she's beautiful herself, and she appreciated a lot about me. Now I hve none, because when it counted, I was a great big DNW.

So anyway, at the time, this Sunday, when she let it slip, she did try to walk it back when she saw how it sucker-punched me, but I know it was true. She's not THAT good at making up stuff. And if she is, she's not that cruel.

We left each other amicably on Sunday. I was not angry at her at all for telling me, and I didn't think less of her as a person -- why should I have? We did not fight.

I called her on Monday, basically to let her know for sure I was not angry, but was hurt. I caught her at a wrong time over the phone. We ended up fighting. Let me quote from the denoument of my email to her today. At the end of our screaming matches by cell-phone late last night, she said she'd never speak to me again.




"I caught you while you were busy with money business, and you were focussed on that and yelled at me. That was OK! I know your money issues are a major, major concern in your life right now, they're serious, and you get a lot of stress over them, so I don't blame you! Then you called back, to apologize for shouting at me, but ended up shouting again, so I called you back to get a chance to say what I wanted to say. And as I said to you then -- I was not angry with you. You are right, you owe me nothing. You are your own person, and you have every right to live your life your own way. And I know you have major issues, including the money issue, that cause a lot of stress for you. So I totally understand why it could be that on that Monday evening you were just not up for dealing with me right then. That's all fine --

BUT, when you laid down that line about "I'll see you when I'll see you at the bar" -- meaning, don't call me anymore, I can't be bothered with you, that I resented! Because a friend (me) was hurting, you decided to just cut him off. Sure, I try to console you as best I can over your issues, but when I have an issue, that's your cue to turn your back on me. That's not right. And then when you said so DISMISSIVELY things along the lines of "Look, this is nothing, everyone worries about not being desirable now and then. I can't be bothered with this." Well, when you did that, when you so casually minimized my issues and my feelings, that was not right either. I try to be sympathetic to you. For once, I have a concern that's eating ME up inside, and you dismiss, minimize, and blow it off. This is what makes you a bad friend. This is why I am OK if you never talk to me again. This is what made me angry.

You had things bothering you on Monday, and you couldn't deal with me right then? Fine. Just say that. But DON'T dismiss my pain, DON'T minimize my issues, and DON'T cut me off as a friend just because I'm hurt - over something that YOU had made the mistake of telling me. You're not the only one with problems, princess. You're not the only person who matters in this world. Just because I'm not carrying your crosses doesn't mean that the cross that I bear isn't crushing me too. But you'll never understand that, not now anyway: you're a very desirable woman for whom romantic affection is not so important. You can get it if you want it, but you don't want it that much. I'm a man who no-one wants who wants to be able to share affection with someone, and it's killing me that I can't. Since my position is different than yours, you cant' imagine I have any real problem at all. If it's not in you, it doesn't exist to you.

And yes, as I said in a message you may or may not have heard from last night, you won't understand what I'm facing until you get older. It will happen to you too. Give it 5 years, 10 years, 15 years at the most. You'll reach a time in your life when you won't be young and pretty anymore, when you lose your looks completely, and when the world stops paying you attention -- when men will stop telling you "you're beautiful inside" because you won't be beautiful on the outside anymore. And it will hurt, more than you can imagine. As you have told me, you go to the bar because it's a distraction, that's all. A distraction from all the serious issues you face. What will happen to you when the distraction disappears? What will happen when men (and women) stop flirting with you? What will happen to you when you aren't adorable anymore? I half suspect, and I fear (yes, I fear it, because I don't hate you) that will be the point at which your existence will finally become completely untenable and you will reach your end. Loneliness is real, dear. Being always unwanted hurts. You'll know it someday too. You will."

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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. So anyway, DU -- have at me!
Sympathy? Could be nice. Ridicule? Angry women? Contemptuous men? All are welcome!

If you remember me from geek-hating posts or the running down of "Lost", etc., now's your chance. Rip me apart!
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. I'm having at you because your headline says "no woman has wanted me for years"
And yet your whole post is about ONE woman. Whom you know is toxic FOR YOU.

I wonder, in all that time, how many women have eyed and wanted you, who you didn't even notice because of this one--who sounds like a drama queen full of trouble, IMO.

You don't know because you didn't keep your eyes peeled.

It's still not to late to rectify this. Keep your eyes out for ladies looking at you who are not so issue-ridden. don't base it looks (I'll bet you're not model material yourself). Look for the spark in the eye, the good conversation, and the compatible sexual energy.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well
Besides her other issues, she didn't have meaningless, joyless sex with you because she likes you and wanted your friendship. You as a person means more to her than a ambulatory dildo. Since you're a guy, you might not be able to see as readily how having sex she may not have wanted to have but had anyway because she is crazy and lonely would have made a continued friendship wierd.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, that's an idea. But I don't see it exactly that way because --
when we first starting hitting it off in the spring, we were both very flirtatious and touching with each other. She came up to me first, but when she asked (it should have been obvious) a couple of weeks later, "do you like me?" I definitely said yes! I was NOT playing the trying-to-be-just-a-friend thing. At our height, people who knew us assumed we were a new couple. The number of times people asked, "Are you having sex with her?" And the same number of times I was also honest - "No, she's not having sex with me."

And her rare itch got scratched this summer. Things were still on a romantic-kind-of plane at that point.

Thanks for reading, by the way!
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe she was being more flirtatious than she meant to be
Crazy chicks often operate in flirty mode only, because they think they're only worth anything as vaginas. That you treated her like an entire person was new foe her ... but her behavior makes continuing a friendship difficult at best, unless you view it as your celibate kind deed for a crazy chick with poor sef-esteem.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That makes a lot of sense. I was happy continuing it just as a friendship, but no more -
not because of the devastation, but they way she dismissed my hurt. I burned my bridges on Monday with the late-night cell-phone screaming matches with her, and with the email as well.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. And sometimes we flirt because flirtation is fun.
It is. It really is. It has nothing to do with where in the body our self-esteem is located.


If anyone takes flirtatious games as some kind of commitment, well...I just want to tell them all NO. That is not what flirtation means. Flirtations means a playful mutual acknowledgment of attractiveness, in a way that involves lots of eye contact and satirical references.

That's ALL. And it's worthwhile for its own sake, but it does not mean you are guaranteed a sexual partner or spouse. (The reason so many women shut down and get hostile at bars is that so many men think a funny 10-minute conversation with laughter and eye contact entitles them to a fuck. It does not. The conversation with laughter and eye contact is worthwhile for its OWN sake, or else we'd never go out. If you want guaranteed sex, pay the going escort rates.)
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. It is always hard to accurately interpret these things online.
Your telling of it was done very well but hints and clues cannot be passed on if they were never realized to begin with.

Did you wait for her, because she let you know her reservations about sex, to initiate sexual contact? It can be difficult for some woman, especially one of questionable self esteem, to really expose themselves by seeking out contact more than she had already done. It is one thing to seek something casual sexually, where emotional rejection is less likely to sting, and another to place your true interest on the line. Is it at all possible that she was waiting for you to, in turn, verify your interest by initiating the sexual aspect of the relationship? (not exactly healthy, mind you, but certainly fairly common)

I started to think i might be off the mark until two comments...One she said, "Look, this is nothing, everyone worries about not being desirable now and then. I can't be bothered with this." This to me sounds like she might be speaking about her own previous battle with this. And two she asked, "do you like me?" when you said it should have been obvious.

I may be off the mark. Even if i am not, i agree with those here who are suggesting that this may not a good relationship to try and continue. Although it seems to me that you are both good people, the dynamic between you seems unnecessarily complicated.

I would advise you not to take this ONE relationship as an indicator of your desirability. Desirability means a great many things to a great many people. Most likely, your peer set is in a different place in life than it had been in the past. Times change and we must adapt. Continue to get yourself "out there" and see.

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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thanks for your thoughtful comments --
No, I did let her know I wanted her, often, but not too heavy-handedly at all. Probably just about right.

May not be a good relationship to try to continue? You're probably right. As you might imagine, the finale to my big email to her which I quoted above really burned my bridges for good and for all. Of course now, a couple of days later, if she would just be my friend again, and call me again, and hang out with me, and talk about people we know together, and about her latest OCD obsession, and let me massage her and scratch her (she likes being scratched) and rub her feet and then kiss them when I'm done, and she would again say sweet things to me, even though we've just been friends for a while now, I would love to have it back.

We've fought before, but this time, bridges have been burned.

Since we've been friends, she did say a number of times I need to "get myself out there" but as I said to her whenever she did, "Where's this 'there' I'm supposed to get myself out into?"

Thanks again!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. This OP has "trainwreck" monogrammed on its sweater.
And if you're derailed and upset because some other guy rung her bell going down on her, twice, then I would have to ask considering all the other info...what the fuck do you care? If she appreciated you as you say, just not in a sexual manner, then that's worth something right? You didn't get the chance to satisfy her it seems. And it doesn't seem like she wants you to.

Sometimes you're the friend. Sometimes you're the guy...dining out with her.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's all quite fair and true except - "Sometimes you're the friend, Somtimes you're the guy" -
I'm not a player, but I'm also not the kind of guy to spend a lot of effort cossetting himself in female just-friends. The reason I care is that sometimes I could be the friend, but it's been six years since I've been "the guy." I'm getting the feeling that being "the guy" with anyone will remain squarely set in my past.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. First, I'm sorry you're hurting.
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 03:27 AM by Heidi
I hope when the hurt and shock ease up a little, you'll see the situation in a different light and take a more gentle view of both yourself and the woman involved. For example:

- You two weren't in a committed relationship. She didn't owe you sexual fidelity any more than you owed it to her.
- Depending on another person to validate you (your appearance, your youth, your ability to be "the guy") is a dicey proposition, and unfair to both the woman and yourself.
- It seems that you intended the "you're beautiful inside" thing to hurt the woman you wrote it to. As a 46-year-old woman who's seen her share of relationships, the prospect of being told by any man that I'm "beautiful inside" isn't the tire iron to the heart that you suppose it to be. The intent to hurt, though -- that's another thing.
- I hope you'll use the emotional momentum generated by this situation to find things about yourself that you love and interests that engage your heart, mind and body.

Take good care of _you_.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks so much.
I know she didn't owe me anything. That's why I was not angry with her when she told me, just hurt. The anger came up the next day over the way she dealt with me over the phone.

Oh, and the "you're beautiful inside" -- I didn't make that clear. I used that line because it came out before the revelation on Sunday that that is what her older male friend tells her. (He generally tries to control her, "improve" her, and just generally enjoys having her around his posse as eye-candy.) She laughed when she told me he says that, and I laughed as well. She's got a certain amount of real kindness at times for a lot of people, even the least amongst us. But beyond that, as she knows herself, she's far too chaotic and troubled inside to exactly be called "beautiful inside."
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. She has major problems.
The fact that you have been patient and nonjudgmental is a big brownie point in your favor.

You sound like a thoroughly nice guy. She has major problems with sex and intimacy but likes to flirt. I would run like HELL from any woman with those kind of hangups (I say this as a woman of 55 who has heard about these women, from my guy friends). I would not expect to have sex with her,

I think you dodged a bullet.

I don't know what it's like to be that unresponsive and cold, but it is invariably a relationship killer from what I have heard from my guy friends.

A whole lot of people in this society, and expecially women, are full of very negative attitudes about sex, sensuality, and generally enjoying their bodies.

I'd find some other interests and activities to fill my time, if I were you. You're probably still attractive and don't judge your attractiveness by her opinion, since she has a lot of problems.

Do a Stuart Smalley if you have to: "Gosh darn it, I'm smart and I'm nice and people LIKE me!".


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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks so much for your words!
Do a Stuart Smalley, "Gosh darn it, I'm smart and I'm nice and people LIKE me!" -- What's sad is up until this revelation, I had taken our abortive summer romance as kind of a sign that yes, maybe people (women) DO like me, which I hadn't even thought about for a good long while. The revelation was a definitely kick to my confidence.

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. It sounds like you both have some issues and they're magnified when you interact.
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 03:51 AM by LeftyMom
This is not the lady for you. Move on.

edit: And if she's telling you about her sexual behavior with other men, either she's intentionally jerking you around to get some sort of response, she's telling you in a rather tactless way that she's not interested and pursuing other options, or she's just got a really screwy sense of acceptable behavior. In any case, there is ZERO potential for a healthy relationship here.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks.
On your edit: she told me that I think just tactlessly. I understand exactly how it happened that she told me. We had just been friends recently, and the two casual sexual events with the mystery man happened back in the summer - months ago. To her, it must have seemed like ancient history. And as she said, and as I know, it really didn't mean anything to her. "a really screwy sense of acceptable behavior?" Well, yeah, kind of. The main pill she takes, that's one of the side-effects.

She's told me other things about her life and past that I never blamed her for or judged her for. I didn't blame her or judge her for the new revelation either. It's just that it completely changed the way I could look at our abortive summer romance -- no longer was it a timely wake-up call for me to get myself out there, and a little bit of a well-needed confidence boost. Now it seems like the final curtain on my romantic life.

Thanks again.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Therapy?
It would really help you sort this stuff out.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, it's an idea. But I think the problem is that I am fundamentally sane.
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 09:10 PM by smalll
Had a good childhood, loving parents, am usually pretty balanced and happy. Keep myself healthy, don't obsess over things, enjoy company but can be alone quite happily as well, etc. etc...

Until this year, until her. It's been 6 years since I've had sex - but this is not about sex, it's about me wanting affection and a relationship again, sex is just part of that.

Thanks for your advice. But what you may not entirely get is where a lot of men can find themselves - completely without prospects in terms of romance. I've moved around a lot in my life, so I don't have a wide circle of close friends who I could get to "set me up" with women. I'm not a pick-up artist. I will, after the holidays, get back into the saltmines of internet singles sites.
Wish me luck, as dubious as its existence may be!

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. I haven't had a date since graduating college
That was in 2003. x(
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Condolences to you - 2003 was my last year as well!
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 10:12 PM by smalll
I was going to assume you were a man, as I'm used to seeing and hearing about men with nothing for years rather than women, but of course your profile tells me I was wrong.

Condolences. In one way though, I'm glad you're a woman -- if you were another man in the same boat, I was going to as nicely as possible take off from there and talk about The Terrible State Of The Relations Between The Sexes Nowadays that I have seen before here can lead to pretty rapidly-developing flamefests, which I don't want in this thread.

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm a woman, and I have just moved around a lot
Edited on Wed Dec-23-09 10:15 PM by XemaSab
Every time I get to know people in a town I live in, I move. :(
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. That's been a lot of my problem too - modern-day nomadism leads to "bowling alone" --
Leaving aside my whole saga above, I definitely want to STAY WHERE I AM from now on.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. walk away...way too much drama going on
Loneliness is a bitch, I know...but peace of mind..is frigging priceless
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. I would stay away from this scene, but you're the only one who really knows
whats going on here...aside from the OP it seems to me that there are problems with her that need to be worked out, and you shouldn't get involved in it. Who knows..maybe you have issues, but I would just stay away from this one

I had a "clingy" relationship once, and without getting into details much of your OP reminded me of that time....get away
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