Need a bit of advice regarding therapy payment. And a hug if you can spare.

[grace0418]

I need to find a therapist in Chicago. I started searching and found several that sounded good. They even take Blue Cross, which I am currently on through my husband.

Unfortunately, one of the reasons I need a therapist is because my husband feels trapped and says the last 20+ years have been a waste of time (dated for 9 years, married for 12). He's angry that I didn't want to have children and angry that, if we weren't going to have children, that the life we're living isn't more "spectacular" (his words). I will admit my ambivalence towards having children must've been difficult. It would've been better if I was sure one way or another. But I can't change the way I feel or have felt for much of my adult life. I *WAS* and still am ambivalent. He, on the other hand, never expressed his strong desire to have children until recently. I've been feeling better about it so we've been trying, but I'm 39 and it's not working. Now he says it's too late.

So it looks like I may be on my own in the near future, as I certainly don't want to waste any more of his life (a life I had been enjoying for the most part, but I guess my needs are different). I'm a freelancer so insurance is going to be tricky to get. Two of my clients would probably take me on full-time if I asked (but neither office is a place I'd like to work every day).

Anyway, sorry to ramble. My question is, if I use insurance to pay for therapy now, is it going to be more difficult and/or expensive to get insurance on my own? I've heard of that, and I'm wondering if I should just scrape together the money to pay for it out of pocket. Has anyone had any experience with this?

Thanks for your help DU.

[grace0418]

1. Even if you have no advice, I could sure use some vibes or a hug.

Thanks. :(

[livetohike]

2. A hug and advice

:hug: We have been on our own with medical insurance for three years now. We retired early - quit working with no benefits. It's hard, but not impossible to gind an insurer that will insure individuals who are not in a group plan. We chose a high deductible plan and spend about $6500/year. We have separate policies since my history of migraines is considered a pre-existing condition, so I pay a slightly higher rate than my husband.

We've never been on our own for insurance until now and never had to complete an application. Ever. So if you use your current insurance to pay for the therapy there will be a record of it somewhere. Then when you go on your own for insurance and have to complete an application, they will ask about your medical history going back five years.

I can't say what you should do, but it's something to consider if you will be looking for your own medical coverage.

Another note in support. I never had kids and would not have married my husband if he wanted children. I know people can change their views though. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this :hug:.

[grace0418]

12. Thanks livetohike. So you think even if I pay for the therapy with cash, the

medical history taken when I complete an application for insurance as a single person will dig up the treatment anyway? If that's the case, I suppose I should just use the insurance while I have it. Maybe I'll just have to take a regular full-time job so I can have insurance. Which sucks, because I'm really happy as a freelancer, for the first time ever (career-wise).

I think my husband thought I would change my views, but I've only softened a little bit. I still feel that, personally, I could be perfectly happy without them. When we got married, he didn't have a strong desire either. And, in fact, he complained incessantly about his family and having to be around them so much. He's also very particular and the littlest disruption in his routine throws him for a complete loop, so it never seemed to me that having a child would be something he'd enjoy very much. I guess I was wrong.

It would've been so much easier if I knew back then that I absolutely didn't want them. I wish I could've been that sure. Then I could've saved him at least 10 of those "wasted" years and he could be with his perfect mate and children right now.

[livetohike]

17. I think they (insurance company) won't find the info on your

therapy on their own, but if you don't mention it on your application and then try to continue therapy with the same doctor, your new insurance company could find out it was a "pre-existing condition" and they won't pay for it. If you tell the truth on your application, I think the worst that can happen is you will be placed in a higher tier for your monthly payments, or maybe not. I don't even remember if therapy was a category on the application (this was for Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

As far as perfect mate and children. Good luck on that right? Once in Mexico, a shop owner told me "Only Jesus is perfect!". :-)

[grace0418]

23. Well, I guess I'll just use the insurance if I can and then worry about it

down the road if I must. The good news is that I do have permanent full-time positions with benefits if I have to go down that road. I hope I don't, the corporate life is not for me. But I am grateful for the option because I know a lot of people are hurting right now.

Yeah, perfect mate. :) I know I'm no one's perfect mate but who is?

[haele]

26. In CA, Blue Cross, Cigna, and Aetna don't cover marriage counseling

Or at least the plans I've been eligible for don't. I looked into private insurance three years ago, but with disabilities in the family, we determined that it would be cheaper to stay on the employer's plan and hope the contract got renewed.
All three cover psychiatric therapy, family therapy, but not marriage counseling. As for pre-existing condition, as long as there's not a major break with insurance, it shouldn't be too much of an issue other than a tier cost.

Haele

[EndersDame]

3. Hugs!! I may be splitting with my longtime BF over this same thing

I dont want kids (raising my puppy has seemed overwhelming and too much work and responsibility at times) and he has been talking about that lately so I dont know where we are headed. I think it is good not to have kids if you dont want them or are ambivalent. I sometimes think it would be an easier breakup if one of us cheated or something. I dont have any financial advice other than maybe you could talk to him about couples counseling until/if you break up some hugs for sure though :hug: :hug:

[seabeyond]

4. interesting

i was alone and single lots of years and really liked it. about 30 i got a dog and for two years of being able to bond and care for a dog convinced me i could do kids.

the interesting is using an animal to see if the possiblity is there for child raising. and i agree, if you dont want or ambivalent, dont do.

[EndersDame]

5. I love my puppy and take my ownership of her very seriously

I take her to the dog park everyday with out fail (even on the few snow days we have had here in Texas)
I get in the morning and take her out to walk her no matter what the weather is
I got up at 5 in the morning got the ice off my windshield (again here in Texas that is a big deal) to wait in line and got her spayed at a low cost clinic
I make sure I devote some time to her
I have researched doggie nutrition and buy her premium food find that some of the "me" goes to her

I have had to juggle work and now my schooling to make sure she recieves the proper care.I have also been taking care of my mom for a while and would not like to be a care giver for a while.

I can only imagine what dedication and sacrifice it takes to raise a kid properly . My hat is off to those who do :)

[seabeyond]

7. and to be clear

i was not in any way suggesting you did not take responsibility seriously. but there is a lot of, you are right on, in your post.

[EndersDame]

10. I know Seabeyond what you meant. You are a sweetie!

:) My mom is my hero she raised all three of us by herself and sacrificed a lot. She made sure she was there for us and sent us to private school when she logically should not have. She even took in my best friend in middle school who would call me up when she was lonely because her mom went out most every night . Eventually her health declined and could not afford to send us to private school but she picked up the slack and was our own private tutor! My sister is about to graduate from St. Edwards ! I am so proud of her she had her whole way payed for and is thinking about joining the Peace Corps (have to brag about her)
Longstory short it requires alot to rear a kid and should not be taken lightly

[grace0418]

13. Thanks EndersDame. I hope things work out well for you. I will definitely see

if he wants to do counseling together, but will get some on my own regardless. Yes, the breakup would be much easier if it was something more dramatic. But the way it is now I feel like I ruined his life, and I was so clueless! I was enjoying our life immensely! Silly me.

[EndersDame]

37. Pardon me if I am crossing a line but me thinks your dude was perfectly happy child free and perhaps

is unhappy about something else and is trying to blame you or just did not realize it at the time and is trying to blame you. I should think that one would be more vocal about wanting kids. I would be happier now if I had gone to a university right after highschool and I am paying the consequences now BUT, I was pretty content or thought I was any way between 18-24 and now I have no one to blame but my self. The bottom line is he is a grown man who is responsible for the choices he makes :)

[grace0418]

42. You're not crossing a line at all. Thank you.

Sure, if I could go back in time there would be things I'd do differently, but that's life. If he wanted kids so bad he should've said so when we were thirty and we could've either had a couple or he could've found someone else with enough time on his imaginary clock. It's just weird to find out the person you love, consider your best friend and with whom you've built a life that you were quite enjoying thinks it was all a waste. That's a dose of reality for you.

[EndersDame]

50. The more I think about it; it seems like HE is the one who should get therapy

and figure what it is that he wants . I saw a post down thread that his sister is having some kind of break down as well. Perhaps there is an undiagnosed mental disorder such as Anxiety Disorder or BiPolar in that family or they are just individuals who had some issues growing up and were never taught to deal with accepting personal responsibility(that is a biggie that alot of people cant seem grasp). I can only speculate with out knowing the people but have had dealt with friends and family both mentally ill and those who could never accept personal responsibility . To take that out/and put that blame on another individual (not to mention your spouse!) is down right shitty!

I hope both he and you find some peace :)
:hug:

[Call Me Wesley]

6. Can't give you advice since I'm a darn foreigner,

but I sure can give you a hug from afar. :hug:

[grace0418]

14. Thanks for the hugs CMW. Can you send some Swiss chocolate

anyway? ;)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. no advice, but plenty of hugs for you, whenever you need them

:hug:

[grace0418]

15. Thanks TA.

I think I'll be needing a lot.

[hippywife]

9. I'm so sorry to hear that, grace.

I have no real advice, either, but just a few hugs in getting through the current marriage issues, either way it works out. :hug: :hug:

[grace0418]

16. Thanks hippywife.

I have no idea what's going to happen next right now, but I'll get through it somehow. :hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. My dear grace0418...

I can't advise you about the insurance question, but I would strongly recommend couples therapy for you both, and pronto.

That is, if you both are interested in saving your marriage.

I do have hugs for you, sweetie! I hope you can work things out successfully...

And I must say, anyone who thinks that life without children should be spectacular is just not in touch with reality. :shrug:

:hug: :hug:

[grace0418]

18. Thanks Peggy...

On one hand, of course I'm interested in saving our marriage. I love him so much and he's my best friend. But on the other hand, if I've already "wasted" two decades of his life then perhaps I should stop doing that.

The thing is, I thought our child-free life *was* pretty spectacular. We live in a great neighborhood in a great city. We have a cute condo that's walking distance from tons of great stores, restaurants and public transit. We have an elderly cat that we adore (well, I do anyway, I suppose I should stop speaking for him). We travel regularly and have been to Europe several times, all over the US (including Alaska and Hawaii), Canada, and we had plans to do more. We enjoy cooking, movies, being outdoors, art, museums, farmers markets. We have two cars that are paid off, no credit card debt, no debt of any kind except a mortgage, we're insured, and we have at least a little money in savings. Sure we don't have as much money as we'd like, and our condo is too small, and we're dying for some outdoor space, and we disagree at times. But, by and large, I thought our life was pretty terrific and it seems to me that plenty of people would be thrilled to have a life as good as ours. I can't figure out what he means by "more spectacular" and he won't tell me. What he did tell me is that he hates our condo, our neighborhood, our monetary situation, my family, and even his family.

Anyway, I will suggest counseling, and will definitely get some for myself. But if he doesn't want to save the marriage I'm not going to inconvenience him for too long.

Thanks for the hugs. :hug:

[orion007]

20. After reading your husbands hate list,, makes one wonder if he's

using "the baby" as the silver bullet that will make him happy?
Classic example of if only I had this or that, I'd be OK.

Let's reverse the situation, it's you that wanted a child now,would you want to get pregnant by a man who's expressing such hatred for his life style and family?
He needs to address where all this is coming from.

Good idea for you to speak with someone, and stop the guilt trip,
Good luck,

[grace0418]

21. Good point.

The crazy part is that his sister is going through a mid-life crisis right now and about to divorce her husband. My husband says he and his sister are having a lot of similar issues about their lives and how it's not what they thought it would be. But check this out, his sister has the big house, two kids, and all the money she could possibly need. So it sure does seem to me that, if we'd gone the road not taken he'd be having many of the same issues. Only then he'd be talking about being trapped in the house and by the responsibility of having kids and hating that we never go anywhere or do anything fun.

My husband's parents, his brother and his brother's family are all coming over tomorrow to celebrate my f-i-l's birthday. That's going to be fun. His parents are already freaking out about his sister (there's A LOT more to the story but I won't get into it), I can't imagine how they'd react to a divorce domino effect in their family. Of course, I'll be the bad guy for not giving my husband the children he so desires. Oh well.

[abq e streeter]

19. no advice to give, but I hope that everything works out for the best,

whatever "the best" turns out to be.

[grace0418]

22. Thanks abq e streeter.

It remains to be seen what the best will be (and if it will be best for both of us), but I guess now I'm thanking my lucky stars there are no kids involved.

[haele]

24. It shouldn't make it harder if there's no psychiatric issues along with it -

But that's if you are going for a (cough) "reputable" insurance company if you need to get insurance on your own. In my experiance, Family or couples counseling or therapy is usually classified as a prevetative/wellness issue, rather than a medical issue. Especially since in most cases, due to HIPPA, it can't be determined who initiated the therapy - was your spouse (or child) the "problem" that caused the need for the sessions, or were you?

As for the other issue, I don't really want to say anything other than :hug: and recommend finding out who is a good, neutral, sympathetic counselor you can work with. It sounds as if there are too many underlying issues going on that need to be addressed, and all parties involved need to be open to fixing the issues, rather than just giving up and walking away.

My only advice - Long term committments aren't disposable; there's always going to be some sort of serious price for all parties to pay when people walk away. Whether there's children and property involved or not.

Good luck to you and your partner.

Haele

[grace0418]

30. Thanks haele.

I'm definitely open to fixing issues, if they can be fixed. I just don't know where he is at right now. If he truly feels that the last two decades were a waste, I'm not sure I can fix that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. You know, the more I think about this, the more I think:

That he is really dissatisfied with his life, and he's taking the easy way out by blaming you.

And after I read that he really gets upset if there's any change in his routine, I KNOW he would be unhappy around children. I mean, kids are the perfect routine-changers!

Life is a lot more chaotic with children. They do not cooperate with your tidy plans.

I really think he's unhappy and this is how he's taking care of it: By blaming you. He needs to have his head examined, IMHO.

:hug:

[grace0418]

31. Thanks again Peggy

You're sweet. I know he's really unhappy. I don't know why (the real reasons), but I know he is. There was a time in my life that I would've taken it much more personally, but I do realize that he's taking his frustration out on me. I haven't been perfect and I know I've made some mistakes that haven't helped, but I know it's not all my fault or anything.

[Gormy Cuss]

27. Hugs for you, grace0418

No advice on the therapy/insurance deal, but if you feel that therapy would be helpful just do it, especially if your mate agrees to couples counseling.
:hug: :hug: :hug:

[grace0418]

32. Thanks Gormy Cuss.

I think I'm definitely going to go ahead on my own. I don't know if he'll agree to couples counseling, but we'll see.

[mdmc]

28. perhaps you can get health insurance as part of your settlement

I mean divorce settlement..

I have also noticed that lots of mental health clinics will take folks on a sliding scale. imho, this is a much better option then any private mental health insurance, even our congresscritters...

Prayers and thoughts are with you.
As a 38 year old with a similar situation (partner wants kids), I say hang in there..

ps- any thoughts on adoption? You could do that..

[grace0418]

34. Thanks mdmc. I'm sorry you're dealing with a similar situation. It's a tough one.

If we do get divorced, I won't ask for much. He is so convinced that he's made all the sacrifices, he's had all the responsibility, he's contributed way more the marriage in every way, the last thing I would want is to burden him any further. Even though I strongly disagree with his assessment, I don't want to give him more ammunition. I'll take a little bit of our savings to help me with a security deposit, the older of our two cars, my clothes, cat and computer and I will get out of his life if that's what he really wants. Since we don't have any children to make things extra messy, I will make as clean a break as possible if a divorce is the ultimate solution for him.

If I can't get insurance on my own as a freelancer, then I will take a job with one of my two clients who have offered me full-time positions. It won't be ideal, but it will keep me on my feet.

Re: adoption. His opinion now is that it's just too late to be a father, whether by adoption or pregnancy. Even though he was fine with the idea when we started trying a few months ago, he now feels differently. I think that's ridiculous, plenty of people have kids at 40 and beyond. But he's got his own opinions.

[EndersDame]

39. again it sounds like he is trying to blame you for why his life is not the way he wants it

and one who can't tak responsibility for onees actions would not make a good father

[grace0418]

43. It's true. Although ultimately, I do share some blame. Not as much as he'd like to lay

at my feet, but some. A marriage is about feeding each other's needs and being attuned to your partner. You can't be a mind reader, but you can ask questions. Maybe I didn't ask enough. I do want him to be happy, even if that's not with me.

I do think he could make a good father with time. I'm sad that won't happen for him now that I know he really wants it (or at least thinks he does).

[mdmc]

40. courage

life is meant to be enjoyed..

[grace0418]

44. Yes it is.

Funny part is, I thought we were enjoying it. Apparently I was wrong.

:hug:

[laylah]

29. No advice just...

:hug: It must be hard for both of you.

[grace0418]

35. Thanks laylah.

It always is hard on everyone, I guess it's a good thing we don't have kids.

[redwitch]

33. i wish I had useful advice but I don't.

:hug:

His comment that all your time together has been wasted time is incredibly mean and cruel. I am so sorry and I hope others can help you to the best solution to your problem.

[grace0418]

36. Thanks redwitch.

I thought it was pretty mean as well, and I imagine he intended it to hurt me. He's definitely lashing out right now, but it still hurts all the same. I'm feeling a bit like a chump for using all my airline miles to take him first class to Hawaii for his 40th birthday last month. I'd been saving those for years for *my* dream trip to New Zealand but thought he deserved something really special for his big birthday. I hope he doesn't think that trip was a waste of time, because I had a blast.

[Capn Sunshine]

38. Hey Grace

I really think, based only on what you posted, that it's your husband that's having issues, not you. Sounds like a serious male midlife crises to me. Be aware that many of these are not marriage survivable. A therapist will probably tell you this.

So hugs to you, and remember to keep true to yourself. The future is certainly wide open. :hug:

ps I don't know enough to advise regarding insurers these days.

[grace0418]

45. Thanks Capn Sunshine. Yes, he's in the midst of a serious

mid-life crisis. He fully admits that. What that means for me, I don't know. But thanks for the hugs. :hi:

[Haole Girl]

41. Sending hugs your way

:hug: :hug: :hug:

For insurance information I would contact your insurance company & document the date you call and who you speak with.

[grace0418]

46. Thanks Haole Girl.

I will try to figure out what's next with that. I think I will go ahead and use my insurance while I still have it. If I have to pay out of pocket in the future for therapy, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. And if I have to take a job with benefits to get insurance, then that's what I'll do. I'm fortunate to have the option, even if it's not my ideal.

[grasswire]

47. something I've observed in several men lately...

...who are involved with various people I know: men of a certain age can become quite obsessive about the child thing LATER -- just about the time it stops being attractive or possible for their partner woman.

Maybe it gives them an excuse to exercise their "mid-life crisis" thing. Maybe they fear being with a woman who isn't child-bearing age because it ages them.

I just know there's SOMEthing going on with some of these guys that is deep-rooted.

I know three of them right now, all in their 40s.

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. It could be the mortality- need- to- leave- something- of- me- behind drive kicking in.

[grace0418]

56. Mid-life crises suck.

And my husband just turned 40 a few weeks ago.

[kimi]

48. Bless your heart

Sounds like you've gone above and beyond, and you've been true to yourself. Whatever happens, good luck, and I hope the insurance thing gets straightened out too. Therapy can be expensive but almost always brings some enlightenment.

[grace0418]

53. Thanks kimi.

I need some good luck. :hi:

[Terra Alta]

49. I don't have any advice

but I am sending good vibes and good thoughts your way. I've finally found a therapist who understands me and who has helped me tremendously. I don't have to pay a dime. My insurance pays for very little of my treatment, and the state pays for the rest. I don't know if this is an option for you, but I would look into it. Good luck to you!

[grace0418]

54. Thanks Terra Alta.

I'm glad you are able to get help from a wonderful therapist! :hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. *hugs* I hope things work out for the best!

[grace0418]

55. Thanks GPV.

I hope so too. :hug:

[Forkboy]

57. I have no real advice or help, I just wish you the best.

I'm the last person on Earth to give relationship advice, but I hope all works outs well, and I hope things work out better than they did for me. As I'm not involved, this should be a reachable goal. :)