I think I screwed up...BAD

[Nuclear Unicorn]

We all know what the week has been like politically. It's been devastating for progressives from Brown to Air America to the SCOTUS ruling.

Last night I was pretty angry about all of it. The BF came over. We promised not to talk politics with each other because he's basically conservative.

But I was pissed.

Every time he tried to put his arms around me I pulled away. When he asked what was wrong I told him. He got mad for breaking my promise and it started.

I basically blurted out, "to hell with promises these people are a bunch of fucking racist, bigoted, mysogynist homophobes who will kill us all."

I never saw him so hurt.

He just grabbed his jacket and left.

I threw a sofa pillow after him but before it left my fingers I knew I had screwed up.

I tried calling him but he sent it to voice mail.

I didn't know what to say.


He's the most special person I've ever been with and we've been through a lot in the last year. Even his fundie parents warmed up to me after I started supporting him in his PTSD therapy. We have our differences but he never once stopped trying to make me feel special. He's a big kid that doesn't hesitate to make a fool of himself if he thinks it'll make me smile. It can be -20 out and he'll show up at the crack of dawn to help start my car. My last BF wouldn't even get a job. This one works 12-plus hours a day and then takes me away for entire weekends and dinners.

I believe what I said. I think the corporations will choke our freedoms and kill the planet.

But should I keep back my politics when I'm around him?

I just feel sick about this. I think I love him (something I swore I'd never say again). It was supposed to just be a casual hook-up but it's lasted just over a year.

Does love trump convictions?

What do I say or do to tell him I'm sorry?

[rug]

1. He's not the enemy, he's a working stiff.

Unless he reveals he owns a factory, he, you, us, are all the prey and have to stick together. His politics will evaporate in the face of reality. Call him up. The only thing you have to be sorry for is mistaking him for a capitalist.

[kayakjohnny]

2. Wow, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I'm sorry but I can't offer much. It seems that this kind of episode might keep happening under pressure.

He sounds cool though. I can see why you're torn.

It's a tough spot to be in.

One of the toughest I've seen mentioned here.

Sounds like you need to really do a serious gut check.

And maybe take a few really long walks by yourself to sort it out.

I don't envy you one single bit though.

I'd be torn as hell if it were me.

In fact, it was once.

We didn't quite make it, but maybe you will.

(edit: tense)

[merh]

3. The relationship cannot work if you are not allowed to be you.

It sounds as if you are passionate about politics and he wants you to stifle that passion.

That seems very unfair to me.

You were hurting, you told him why.

You didn't say that he was all the things you think conservatives are.

If he took it personal then perhaps he does identify with the adjectives you used to describe the conservatives you are angry with. That's on him, not you.

He kept pushing you to know what was bothering you and you told him. He has no right to be upset.

IMHO, if you have to hide a part of yourself and if he doesn't really want to understand then the relationship has no chance.

I'm truly sorry, you were hurting enough before the fallout. :pals:

[snagglepuss]

9. Wise advice. nt

[Arugula Latte]

4. He sounds like a nice guy, but

but, to me, basic philosophical differences are insurmountable in a serious relationship. This might be a good thing; you might realize that sooner rather than later, when it's harder.

To me, if I can't respect someone's beliefs, I don't respect them enough to be in a relationship.

There are nice liberal guys out there, too. Good luck.

[Orsino]

12. Yes. One shouldn't lightly discard a loving relationship, but...

...the consequences of the SC decision will be snowballing for decades to come, and probably for the rest of America's history.

I don't know how one could feel strongly against it, and yet keep silent in an intimate relationship. The OP and SO are due a serious discussion, one I hope won't just end with one or both agreeing not to talk about it.

It's going to come up again. And again.

[BlueJazz]

5. Complicated relationship. I believe in my heart that YOU are the only person...

...that can truly weigh the -'s and +'s regarding this arrangement.
Many, many variables ..but if you and him love each other, you'll be together soon.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. That's a tough situation.

The question, I think, is whether you can have a really solid relationship with someone when you have to suppress your beliefs about certain fundamental ideas. You are a liberal because you feel strongly that the world should work in a certain way. That's part of what you are. If you have to leave that part of you out of your relationship with this guy, what will happen? Will you always feel like you're walking on eggs when a major political development occurs and you can't even talk about it for fear of offending him or getting into an argument?

I don't know the answer. Personally, I'd have a tough time getting into a committed relationship under these circumstances; I don't think I could ever love a real conservative. Maybe he's got enough going for him that you can ignore that aspect of him. But I don't think it will go well if you feel you can't discuss such things at all.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. It was a mutual suppression

We were having fun. We agreed we wouldn't talk politics.

I never wanted to hear his conservative talking points. He didn't want to hear my progressive ones.

It was supposed to just be fun so it was an easy arrangment.

I didn't mean to start having feelings for him. It just happened. He'll probably hate me for that too.

[velvet]

8. some observations

... with the usual disclaimers - just my perspective, what the hell would I know? I never take my own advice, etc.

If you've called and left a message then the ball is in his court. He knows you've tried to reach him and he'll contact you if he chooses to.

I don't think it was so much what you said as what you did. I think this is where things turned around: "Every time he tried to put his arms around me I pulled away." You made the political personal before you said anything.

Maybe ... At first he thought pulling away meant you were angry with him. Refusing physical contact is the first sign something serious is up. When he learned what you were angry about he felt you'd rejected him because of something that was supposed to be off the agenda, not relevant to the relationship. That you broke the agreement. And I guess you did. I think it was probably inevitable. If it was meant to be "just fun" then perhaps it's run its course.

Or maybe not. Time will tell. Be patient, wait a while and see what happens.

[jobycom]

10. Yes.

Love trumps political convictions.

My closest friend right now--someone I might be romantic with if she weren't married--is a conservative, and religious. I'm liberal and atheist. We can have long conversations and rarely mention religion or politics. We've had run-ins--she basically tried to convert me once, and I barely spoke to her for weeks after that. It hurts having someone you love tell you your beliefs and ideals are wrong, and inferior to theirs. But we got past that. I never did that to her probably just because she did it first, if that makes sense.

If you feel as passionate as you sound about him, call him over and over and apologize over and over until he hears you. Text, email, write his name in the snow, whatever. Make him tell you to go away before you do. Everyone snaps at the people they love sometimes. People forgive that. He needs to know that you get it, and understand why he was hurt, and that you don't feel like that about him. He'll come around if he feels the same as you.

Don't let anyone else tell you who you can love. That's up to you, and between you and him. Good luck. That's my useless opinion. :)

[MiddleFingerMom]

11. Screwed up... BAD?????

Just listen to yourself.
.
1. He's the most special person I've ever been with and we've been
through a lot in the last year.
.
2. Even his fundie parents warmed up to me after I started supporting
him in his PTSD therapy.
.
3. We have our differences but he never once stopped trying to make me
feel special.
.
4. He's a big kid that doesn't hesitate to make a fool of himself if
he thinks it'll make me smile.
.
5. It can be -20 out and he'll show up at the crack of dawn to help
start my car.
.
6. My last BF wouldn't even get a job. This one works 12-plus hours
a day and then takes me away for entire weekends and dinners.
.
.
WTF?!?!? It's not just me. I think there are a TON of people out here
who would LOVE to have a person half so kind and warm and considerate
and respectful and, yes... LOVING.
.
And I think we could learn to deal with his misguided support for the
wrong ideology. Someone in this thread said it well -- he's not THE
ENEMY; he's a working stiff.
.
I don't think you screwed up... "BAD".
.
I think you FUCKED UP MONU-FUCKING-MENTALLY.
.
Run, don't walk... and do whatever you have to to convince him that
you were ranting about "them", not him (unless you WERE ranting
about him -- if that's so, forget everything I said... and forget him).
.
Good luck!! I envy you for what you had and, if you're lucky, what you
can still have.
.
He sounds like something of a knight on a white charger, and there ain't
a whole lot of them out there anymore.
.
And for him to treat you so well -- that strongly suggests to me that
you're also someone very special. I hope you can tolerate the negative
aspects of your ideological differences, because it certainly sounds like
you both deserve the wonderful positive aspects of each other.
.
Don't tell anyone else that I got serious here. This is just between you
and me. OK?
.

[hippywife]

13. Maybe. Maybe not.

Do you really want to or can you live with someone who doesn't share your philosophical ideas. Do you want to live your live repressing your speech and feelings? Politics are more than personal, to me anyway. They concern how you view and interact with the world.

I could never live with someone who is so conservative that they cannot open their minds to the needs of the world around them, and that is truly what conservatives do. They don't care about the rest of the world except the religious ones that want to make sure they are "saved" and don't recognize them as viable cultures all on their own, and the greedy ones who only want what they have and don't want to pay for it.

Did you consider that his parents are viewing you as salvageable material yourself? You are helping their son right now, and they appreciate that, no doubt. But they have plenty of time to work on you.


So only you can decide if you want to live with all of that. Just because feelings exist between the two of you doesn't make the relationship a healthy one for either of you.

[Joe Fields]

14. I have two stories to tell on this subject...

1st story: My older brother and his wife of over 30 years could not be more polarized when it comes to politics. She is a right winger and he has always been a liberal. They made a pact to never discuss politics with each other. She allows him to do his activism, but he is not allowed to bring it home with him. Vice versa. Their marriage somehow works and are relatively happy. No easy feat.

2nd story. I had been married for 23 years, and I'm going through a divorce right now, in part because I just HAD to be myself and articulate my politics on a daily basis. Of course there were other factors for the breakup, but my "need" to express my political views on a daily basis definitely played a part, and she isn't even a conservative. But I overdid it and it just added fuel to a burgeoning fire of isolation and resentment.

I have no advice to offer. I can only ask you if your boyfriend means more to you than your politics.

[seabeyond]

19. the godsend in my marriage was du. being able to speak out, and not always at husband.

gives him a reprieve at times. a lot of the time.

[av8rdave]

15. I understand...

I never talk politics with my spouse or most of the people I work with, but sometimes it's really, really hard to stay quiet.

Sometimes, you have to vent. Catharsis is good for you.

[Heidi]

16. To hell with politics. Is HE personally a homophobe? Is HE personally a sexist? And, if so,

can you live with that? Because that's what it comes down to: what you can and/or are willing to live with.

I wish you every good thing, gf. :hug:

[noamnety]

17. Is he a veteran?

asking because of the PTSD comment, and because it would fit a particular pattern of being military, conservative, and being a bit of a male supremacist (controlling behavior) while at the same time wanting to come to the rescue of a damsel in distress (starting your car at the crack of dawn).

I don't have any advice about the relationship itself or where your priorities should be regarding love vs. values, but I would encourage you to learn how to start your own car when it's cold out. If you need help, don't let him do it for you, make him teach you so you can be self-sufficient. And then BE self-sufficient.

[seabeyond]

18. is he a " racist, bigoted, mysogynist homophobes "? i married a nra card holding, texas, repug.

love him dearly. he is the most mellow accepting dude i know. i tried to not talk repug politics at first, but was in early 90's and easier not to be so volitile. 16 yrs married. he voted bush, kerry, obama and walked from repug party.

but then i have never pointed at him directly, repug in general. he has never gotten on me for my beliefs or party. he doesnt throw fits....

you dont have to leave your convictions to love another. if he were " racist, bigoted, mysogynist homophobes ", then that may be another issue.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. UPDATE

I made a second attempt to call him the next day but was put through to voice mail again. I didn't leave a message that time either. I figured he was done with me. I cried...a lot actually.

Then saturday night I get a call about 11pm. It's his phone number. I answered.

"You need to come get your boyfriend," it's one of his vet buddies. "He's passed out and he's bringing down the party."

"I don't think he wants to see me anymore."

"Whatever, just get out here."

Long story short: they had a party to cheer him up but he got plastered REAL FAST and kept talking about me the whole time. They helped put him in my car and I took him back to my place.

BTW - it's not easy getting someone who is THAT inebriated up four flights of stairs. I'm only 115 lbs and he's got almost 70 lbs on me

While he was still plastered he would see that it was me holding him up and he mutter "why do you fucking hate me?"

I put him in my bed and went to the living room to cry.

I woke up in the morning to the sounds of him puking in the bathroom. I brought him a bottle of water. He took it and asked why I came to get him.

I told him I was sorry.

Again for brevity: He told me he would never lecture me to make me believe what he believes. He says he doesn't agree with much of what I believe but that he (here he had a very pregnant pause as he searched for his next word) "cared" about me anyway and that my beliefs were part of what made him "care" about me so much. He said if I really thought that way about what he believes in that I should run away from him.

I told him I didn't think that way. I don't agree with what he believes but I know he isn't a hater.

We went back to the bedroom. He said he needed a few more hours sleep and if I wanted him to leave he'd call a cab. Told him to crash at my place. He curled up and I went to the kitchen to get a couple more bottles of water. I curled up next to him as he started snoring.

When he woke up I wanted to get a little frisky but he said he had a headache. It must have been a really bad headache.

We've spent most of the last couple nights just quietly cuddling, watching stupid movies (although I learned he has a thing for some old time actor named Cary Grant, fun stuff to watch, actually). He stayed over last night.

A couple of times I playfully tried to get him to better define what he meant when he said he "cared" about me after such a noticeable pause. He would only smile and kiss my forehead.


Things have been kind of subdued but he's coming around. I can't help but think it could have ended horribly. I missed him. I'm glad he's back. Thanks to most of you for your good advice.

Thanks

:grouphug:

[Haole Girl]

21. Though I'm worried about the lack of communication you've described...

I'm happy you are happy. :hug:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. To be fair...

...we talk about all sorts of stuff, just not politics. Some of it pretty deep.

We've talked about marriage. (Me: no)

We've talked about family ( Mutually: NO!)

We've talked about his troubles. At first he was very closed about that but I think once he stopped being embarrassed he became very open with me.

He knows I can be quite fiery about my politics and he wants bartender rules: no religion or politics. I understand where he comes from because he CAN argue his points but he doesn't WANT to argue them to me. I respect that so I return the favor. He's never comes close to telling me to not believe what I believe we just don't try to convert each other.

His family certainly doesn't pull punches. His mother flat out told me when I first met her that they did not approve of us having sex outside of marriage. We weren't allowed to stay at their house overnight during the holidays even though his older brother did with his wife. Keeping one's opinions to one's self is not a trait they practice in that house.

Naturally I was pretty friggin' livid being treated like that but he said he wasn't ashamed of me and being with me was more important than fighting about religion and politics.

Mind you, this was wa-a-ay before last week's blow-up. Since his troubles from his time in the army started they really warmed up to me. I think they think that since I was sticking with him even during his troubles that somehow constituted us being almost sort of kind of married (although we couldn't spend the night in their house) they were a lot more accepting of me.

Yippee? :shrug:

Anyway: He's good to me. I like having him around. I think I love him.

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. Here's the thing - he thinks you conflate all awful things about conservatives/Republicans with HIM

Which, honestly, after you described pulling away from him when he tried to hug you and then unloading your anger on him in the OP, he was fairly justified in assuming you thought he was just as awful as everything you were railing against.

If you need some perspective, try putting the shoe on the other foot. What if he were the one who just couldn't contain his diatribes about "godless lazy America-hating good-for-nothing welfare queen liberal commies"? What if, every time he was pissed at Obama, he took it out on you personally? Wouldn't you assume that he imagined YOU to be "just as bad" as the caricature of "liberals" he's built up in his mind? And wouldn't that hurt, since YOU know that you are none of those things?

Now, I'm not saying that's what he actually believes about liberals, but all I'm saying is - it SUCKS to be on the receiving end of someone else's political ire because they blame YOU for everything that's wrong with the country. And, honestly, it sounds like that's what you're doing with your BF. Now, only you know if he really is a hateful bigoted homophobic racist corporatist. If he really is, then yes, you'll never see eye to eye with him. But if he's NOT - and just because he identifies as a Republican or a conservative does NOT mean he is, some people just do so out of old lazy family loyalties (well my dad's a Republican, etc) or because he's military and has some misguided belief that Republicans support soldiers more - then you are hurting him very deeply by projecting all your hatred of conservatives onto him. And I don't blame him for being hurt.

You just really need to sit down and evaluate how you're dealing with your politics with regard to him, and honestly reckon with yourself whether or not he's part of the problem. If you don't think he is, then you need to realize how your accusations hurt him. And if you're willing to work, then you need to find a way to be proactive with your progressive politics in a way that doesn't constantly accuse him of being part of the conspiracy to ruin America. Don't ever abandon your personal beliefs because of what anyone wants, but don't be so strident and rigid that you assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is your mortal enemy, either. There IS a difference between conservatives who genuinely care about America and just have a different perspective - I have civil debates with friends like that all the time - and those who are the loud, ugly, racist hatemongers. Don't ruin what sounds like an otherwise good thing by confusing the two.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. It's not easy admitting being wrong.

You and EFerrari are right.

Thank you

:hug:

[EFerrari]

22. Why did you punish your boyfriend for something that happened

in national politics that was completely out of his control?

It doesn't seem like a matter of keeping back your politics when you're around him but of managing your own anger instead of misdirecting it at him. That's your job, no matter who you're with.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. I know

I have no argument.

You're right and I've told him as much.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

buttons

ugh!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. twice even!

a-a-argh!

[cleveramerican]

28. of course I could be wrong

at the end of any rant softens it

practice humility when discussing politics.

love lives alongside convictions,
Always remember he might be just as sincere in his beliefs as you, respect that.

[Raven]

29. Love does not trump convictions. You need to find a common ground...

my parents, who were married almost 65 years, cancelled eachothers' votes each and every time. He voted one way, she voted the other. I used to joke and ask them why they even bothered to vote and she would chuckle. Their magic was that they respected eachother.

[stewartcolbert08]

30. Just tell him

that what you said was a broad generalization and that your sorry. You guys should still be able to be yourselves and even talk politics you both just have to respect each others individuality and each others convictions. Who knows? Maybe over time he will come to see what you've been saying all this time! You both just need to be a little more tolerant.

[Kaleva]

31. I refrain from discussing politics with family and friends.