How do you deal with people who are habitually late?

[tango-tee]

I love my daughter-in-law. She is sweet, caring, kind-hearted, funny, loving and loveable. I only have this one son and have always wanted to have a daughter as well. When my boy (well, he's 34 years old) fell in love with this young woman, I was so happy. She lost both parents early in life, and I feel fortunate that to her I'm Mom and to me, she's my daughter. She brought a beautiful little girl into the marriage, and all three of them love one another dearly.

And there is one big problem: My daughter-in-law cannot be on time. I arrived in Texas the day before the wedding after a 10 hour flight and may not have completely realized what was happening during the two weeks I was there, meeting her side of the *huge* Southern family and being constantly on the go.

She was late for her wedding 1 1/2 hours. I chalked it up to the whole nerves / bridal dress stress / makeover / manicure thing. Stuff happens. A couple of days later we had an appointment, should have left the house at 9 a.m. - and finally made it out of the front door by 1:30 p.m. A beloved uncle died recently, the funeral had been over already for 45 minutes... that's when she arrived. She went back to college to finish her senior year, had a term paper due at 9 a.m., and didn't even start working on it until 2 a.m. that morning. My granddaughter started first grade last September and doesn't get to school on time some mornings.

Can I - should I - say anything? If so, *how*? I swore to myself that I would let the children deal with their marriage problems on their own unless asked for advice. But something seems to be going off the rails here. The big, big problem is that my son has told me some of these things because they are worrying him and he doesn't know what to do. And I just don't want to be the MIL From Hell who sticks her know-it-all-better nose into this marriage. The last thing I want is for my daughter-in-law to think that her husband goes whining to Mom, whereupon Mom... well, you know the rest.

One thing I did notice during the two weeks I spent with them: My daughter-in-law washes dishes like it's going out of style. Each cup, spoon and saucer immediately goes into the sink with hot soapy water, is scrubbed, rinsed, dried and THEN goes into the dishwasher. The house is spotless. Before putting on clothes, she shakes them exactly ten times. Might this be a sign of OCD? If it is, how do I approach the subject?

Advice?

[la_chupa]

1. nothing useful to add here

But I feel like you're describing my sister. My BIL and my sister don't drive together because of it. He takes the kids to church and she meets them there. He goes on to little league and she darts in just as the game is ending.

You may be onto something with the OCD thing.

[Xithras]

2. My advice? Stay out of it.

And tell your son that he needs to either accept it or file for divorce.

Paying attention to the time, and living by the clock, is a behavior that must be instilled during childhood and becomes a core part of the way you live your life, structure your day, and perceive the world around you. If that behavior is not instilled during childhood, it is extremely difficult to pick it up during adulthood. What you are complaining about isn't simply a minor correctable behavior, but a basic part of her personality. Changing your personality, as an adult, takes years of effort. If he loves her, he wouldn't even ask.

This is coming from a person who is chronically late. Like your daughter in law, I was late to my own wedding. I deliberately pick jobs with flexible schedules, because I have been fired from EVERY job that requires punctuality. It isn't a behavior that my parents instilled in me, and though I've tried, I cannot adjust myself to pay attention to it as an adult. I gave up even trying long ago. This used to drive my wife crazy, as she is an extremely punctual person, but she figured it out, adapted to it, and it hasn't been a problem for the past 10 years or so.

If you and your son want to have a happy relationship with her, I strongly suggest that you simply find a way to accept the fact that punctuality isn't her strong suit, and adapt to it.

[tango-tee]

5. Your explanation is really helpful in understanding.

I suppose because so much of our life is dictated "by the clock" and most people have simply been conditioned to adapt to this way of life, that someone who runs on a different internal schedule throws us for a loop.

Thank you!

[Xithras]

15. That's certainly the way I look at it.

I see people panicking because of the clock all the time, and it's always been a bit befuddling to me. I mean, I understand why others see it as so important, but I just can't seem to assign it that kind of priority myself. I have tried, many times, and for many years, but I just don't seem to perceive time the way others do. Talking to other people with punctuality issues, this seems to be a common theme.

Many people like to write it off as laziness, or a lack of respect, or even outright insolence, but I assure you that it's none of these. When I was younger I used to claim that there was some type of mental "difference" between punctual people and non-punctual people, but I don't know that I believe that any longer. I have three kids who are all very punctual, and as they have grown I couldn't help but notice the way my wife regularly teaches them to watch the clock, live by the clock, plan their day by the clock, etc. My parents never did that. Today, I believe that it's a learned behavior, and I believe that it's something that must be instilled when you're small.

[suzbaby]

37. My thinking on it....

To me, it's not about assigning importance to the clock. It's about assigning importance to the people who are waiting for you. If you agree to meet someone at a specific time and don't show up at that agreed time, it's disrespectful. You're not coming through on something you said you would do. "I don't mind making you wait. I'll get there when I get there and you can just deal with it." That's what I hear from habitually late people.

Just my opinion.

[wickerwoman]

43. Yep, exactly.

It's not about the importance of time, it's about consideration for other people.

I don't care what time we meet, but if you say you're going to be there, don't make me stand around like a jerk waiting for you. You're not the center of the flippin' universe and if that's what your parents taught you, they did you a *major* disservice in life.

[REP]

42. I was raised by someone who can't be on time for anything; I'm on time or early

I don't get bent out of shape by someone being 10-15 minutes late, but beyond that, I still don't get upset - but I don't wait around, either.

[Duer 157099]

3. It does sound like a hint of OCD plus ADHD

It doesn't hurt to be aware of what might be going on, even if you do not or cannot intervene in any way. But it certainly does sound like something is going on along those lines (OCD +/- ADHD).

[tango-tee]

8. Behavioral therapy?

I wonder if that might work. As far as I know, OCD is definitely treatable. She is such a wonderful young woman, and I would love for her to be able to get all the help she needs.

[Duer 157099]

26. I don't know, but at a minimum, it might help you to understand the problem

Even if you don't get involved, your understanding the issue helps both of you, because it gives you more insight into her, and it gives her someone who understands.

[miscsoc]

32. I have OCD and think it sounds like she might have had it

I sent a message to the OP since I don't really like talking about that in public. So check your messages.

[lost-in-nj]

4. I agree with staying out of it..

but the school just might get involved if there are to many lates...


maybe the only thing to do is tell your son to talk to his wife....

and that would be that, maybe they can work through this


lost

[tango-tee]

7. They have talked about this often

and she realizes there is a big problem (job loss in the past because of it, etc.), but for some reason is unable to work against it.

My son works shifts and so he often can't see to it that my granddaughter gets off to school in time.

I only wish I could help. Being so far away makes it tremendously difficult.

[The2ndWheel]

6. There is little worse on this planet than the

clock.

If you want to say something, say it. If you don't, then don't.

[tango-tee]

9. Easier said than done sometimes....

During my first marriage, I had a MIL who was into *everything*. And I mean really *everything*. I made a vow to myself many years ago not to turn into such a bulldozer.

[The2ndWheel]

14. All too true

A choice must be made about the vow, and then let the chips fall where they may.

[Iggo]

10. Tell them to quit meth. Worked for me. (n/t)

[tango-tee]

11. Seems you're still suffering from the aftereffects, poor guy.

Thanks for the heartfelt advice, though.

[Iggo]

13. delete

peace

[jobycom]

12. Yeah, it's a touch of OCD. Do NOT under any circumstances get involved.

Do NOT under any circumstances mention it to either of them. It will do nothing good and lots bad, and you cannot win by doing it. If you tell her, she will feel put upon, and you won't change anything. If you mention it to him, one of two things will happen--either he will take your side she will feel like an outsider and you will weaken their marriage, or he will take her side and weaken your relationship with both of them, and probably also weaken their marriage, since he will see you as an ally of his whenever he has complaints about her.

If I were you, I'd go in the complete opposite direction. I would defend her actions until you are blue in the face. If your son complains to you about it, chastise him and tell him to be more supportive of her. If others complain, defend her vigorously and without qualification. If she mentions it tell her it's one of the things you love about her. Don't even think any thoughts otherwise or she will see the insincerity. Because otherwise she will see you as an enemy and will use you as a debate point in every fight they have. "Your mother never liked me, your mother is always critical, you are just like your mother." That will drive you and them apart, and drive them apart as your son has to choose sides. I'm not even saying she will do it that obviously, but it will be a part of her feelings, and it will affect how everything works. It's an old rule in in-lawships--you always side with the spouse over your own. Your own will always forgive you, their spouse never will, and since they are family, you have to get along with them. (Yes, there are times that isn't good advice, but those are usually very obvious.)

She is who she is. She probably cannot help it or she would have already. I had a friend in college who used to miss classes because he would get caught up brushing his teeth. He did that more than once, and eventually dropped out. He had many such things, where he took an hour on a minute-long activity. He has had therapy for it, and it's helped some, but that was help from professionals who were personally detached.

There is NOTHING in any way shape or form you can say about it to him or her that will do anything other than hurt them. Not one thing. She knows the problem already, and your son no doubt does. Pointing out the obvious is simply unproductive, and will not result in anything good happening.

Now, if he or she ever comes to you and says "We have a serious problem and we're thinking that maybe therapy would help," you say "I've noticed the problem but honestly it's just one of those things I love about you. But I understand how it can be a problem, and if you think therapy would help, I am 100% behind you on that because I love both of you so much and think you are perfect." It HAS to be their decision or you will be the villain they rally against, and worse, you will be your son's crutch in a fight. "My mom warned me about you!" is a very real battle cry in domestic fights, and it's never good.

That's my two cents.

[Xithras]

17. +99

She is who she is. She probably cannot help it or she would have already.
...
There is NOTHING in any way shape or form you can say about it to him or her that will do anything other than hurt them. Not one thing. She knows the problem already, and your son no doubt does.

Nobody likes being yelled at for being late. Or fired from jobs because they can't make it in on time. Or watching the people they love cry because they have missed an important date or event (I was 45 minutes late to my own wedding). If it was an easy thing to correct, it would have been corrected a long time ago.

[RainDog]

16. I'm habitually late - but my kids were NEVER LATE for school

I set the clock in my car ahead about 20 minutes but tell myself it's 10 minutes ahead. set my alarm ahead too, and even have a clock in my bathroom that it set 20 minutes ahead of time (cause I'm a soak in the tub and read kind of person.)

I've always been so bad about time that I don't even calculate the trick I'm pulling on myself.

I'm not late for things like weddings, funerals, things my kids need to do... I'm early for those so that I won't be late, if that makes sense.

it's just my "personal" life time that always seems hard for me calculate "on timeness" for.

I'm also not hours late for things. more like, oh, twenty minutes... :)

[skygazer]

18. You don't approach the problem

It's really not your problem, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. Your son is a big boy now and while it's okay that he talks to you about things that worry him, it's not up to you to solve his problems. Nor should you try.

[MrsBrady]

19. as a person who cares about your children...

I think you are allowed to say something "once" and only once.
Any more than that would be an attempt to control the situation.
It's ok to let your opinion be known. As long as you don't bring it up over and over again.

My husband and I usually agree on most things, but when I disagree with him about something...
in order for me not to keep repeating myself I usually say something like.
Ok. You know I feel yada yada. So I'm just letting you know that I'm not going to bring up yada yada again, unless necessary.
I want you to know that just because I'm not going to hassle you about it means that I agree with you. If I change my mind, I'll tell you.
Otherwise just remember I still that that yada yada. And then I drop it, but he knows that
I'm not "giving in" just because I haven't brought it up again. -- you could formulate that somehow for your situation.

Why don't you go see a counselor for YOURSELF...and get some advice about how to approach this before you actually say something to them.

I would also suggest that your son and daughter get some help for themselves. But that is something that they will have to decide for themselves.

That would be my two cents.

[tango-tee]

45. That is what I suggested to my son...

...to find a neutral party to help DIL step-by-step, and at the same time to help him be supportive and understanding while she is trying.

[hobbit709]

20. My wife's best friend was like that

Her own kids would tell that they had to be somewhere at 5:30 so that would get there at 6:30-the real start time. She did this with everything and everyone enabled her to keep getting away with it.

I got roped in to give her a ride and she called and told us she was ready to go. We got there and Donna went in the house to get her. 20 minutes later Donna comes out and says she wasn't even dressed yet. When she finally came out, I told her that next time she wants a ride from me she had FIVE minutes from the time I pulled in the driveway before I left-with or without her. After that she was always on time with me, but never with anyone else.

[lunatica]

21. With a little luck your granddaughter can be picked up by another mom for school

Arrangements can be made so a punctual mom can pick up the little girl for school.

Stay out of it. And more important accept it and enjoy your wonderful daughter in law.

[Arkansas Granny]

22. It sounds like you are describing a dear friend of mine. I decided years ago

that her friendship was more important to me than her punctuality and learned to accept her as she is. It can be maddening sometimes, but I just don't plan on her ever being on time.

[old mark]

23. One of my brothers is always late, or else shows up unexpectedly -

and they live several states away. He NEVER calls to let us know, even though every member of his family has a cell phone at all times.

m

[guitar man]

24. simple

I warn them

I warn them again

then I fire them :P

(edit typo)

[alphafemale]

25. well for one thing...don't delay events

There is absolutely no good reason other people should sit around hungry while food is getting cold and inedible.

If she shows up as things are being cleared away?

"Oh I'm so glad you were able to make it for coffee and dessert."

Had a family member that loved to be the center of attention in that way. Once they realized we weren't going to cater to it any longer they started to be more punctual.

And even if she can't control it that is no reason for her to be able to control the entire family and every event.

[Forkboy]

27. Sorry to just now be arriving to this thread.....

:hide:

[Kali]

28. ...

:spray:

[tango-tee]

34. LOL!

Thanks for the laugh, Forkboy!

:evilgrin:

[Kali]

29. I agree with jobycom

just accept it, back them up whatever they decide to do - likely the school could be a catalyst for getting some professional adjustments

I have some friends that are guaranteed to be 30 minutes late for everything - I just plan around it, and honestly I used to be obsessively EARLY for things, now I am often late. I don't know what happened there but it is interesting.:crazy:

[tango-tee]

38. My parents were extremely punctual

and raised both of their girls to be that way, too. Early for everything. Always. But like you, I've become more relaxed over the years.

[hippywife]

30. While I think you shouldn't get involved in

their marital problems, I would definitely address it when and if it effected myself.

Regardless of what others have said on this thread, I find people who are THAT late to events, putting other people out, are just plain selfish. If punctuality is a learned behaviour, then people can learn it. Saying they can't is just an excuse to continue this very rude behaviour. And that is what it is...rude.

:hi:

[pitohui]

31. i don't go anywhere with them where it's important to be on time

i don't fly with them or attend concerts, plays, etc with them -- i accept that i can't make a chronically late person be on time so i don't make plans that involve unrealistic changes in the other person's character

i certainly don't take it upon myself to tell them how to live their life or that they must have a mental illness (OCD is a disorder, not just a party joke) because they wash their dishes more than i do

if your son has a problem w. his marriage, he should be talking to his priest, his counselor, his attorney, not with his mom or you are put in the role of interfering mother in law against your will

my advice is to stay out of it and if he tries to drag you back into it, insist that he instead talk to a neutral advisor like a marriage counselor

you have nothing to gain by getting involved and you have your grandchildren to lose if she gets pissed off with you

as for funerals, etc. let her get her own ride to the funeral, that way, you don't miss the event even if she does

[quakerboy]

33. All the one size fits all advise is probably wrong

How is your relationship with her? How is your relationship with him. What would you want them to do if the situation was reversed? What mold do you want to set for your future relationship with them?

I am not shy about telling people there is a problem. If I know them well enough to be friends, they know me well enough to respect the spirit of my offerings. And I have been wrong, misinterpreted things. In the end, you have to be honest to who you are and what your values are.

I guess what I am saying is that somewhere inside you is the right answer, and it relies on a whole lot of conditions, most of which have not been mentioned anywhere in this thread. The particular what(lateness) is almost irrelevant to what you should do with the situation.

[tango-tee]

36. I think it's because I had such a bad experience with my own MIL

that I vowed to never, ever do anything to make my own daughter-in-law feel anything but welcomed and loved.

She *knows* this is a problem, she told me so when I was in Texas. But we had so little time, only two weeks, to get to know each other face-to-face and we're both very fond of each other. Through the years, her brothers and other family members have learned to work around the lateness and live with it, or to just get in the car and drive off again if she isn't ready.

Employers aren't usually willing to be terribly flexible, though, and it has resulted in job losses in the past.

[quakerboy]

40. so it sounds like the subject is already on the table

So the "say nothing, ignore it, accept it" stuff above probably isn't super relevant at this stage.

Theres still a lot left unsaid, and you are a different person than me, but given what conditions you have presented, I would probably approach it from a "yall mentioned this problem. is there anything I can do to help. If not now, know that I am here for you if you need me in the future." And perhaps, if you have not already, explain that you had this mother in law experience, and you do not want to be that person, so if they ever feel you are sticking the nose in too much, just to tell you.

But your mileage may vary. I am all about the straightforward approach, with all relevant cards on the table whenever possible.

[tango-tee]

44. She knows all about my own MIL experience.

We spent hours and hours with "girl talk" and comparing experiences during the two weeks I was able to spend in Texas. But you don't really have the chance to truly get close enough to another person within such a short time frame to be able to take the liberty of addressing what might be a real problem. Dear DIL knows how hesitant I am to overstep boundaries.

Quakerboy, thank you so much for your post. It gives me food for thought.

[tango-tee]

35. Thank all of you so much for responding.

There is lots of good advice to think about.

From most of the posts, I gather it will be best to stay out of things. I definitely don't want to be my son's crutch, as one of the posters called it, and make my daughter-in-law feel that he is betraying her trust by talking to me and that I'm against her in any way.

Should my daughter-in-law herself approach me and ask for help or advice, that will be a different story.

Again, I really appreciate you've taken the time to respond!



:pals:

[LeftyMom]

39. I lie to mom about when things start.

[abq e streeter]

41. I tell em things start earlier than they're really scheduled for

they know what I'm doing, but there's just enough seed of doubt that they at least show up less late.

[snooper2]

46. Usually beat them in the knees with a 2x4

until it snaps....

After that they usually are on time :)

[Kat45]

47. Your last paragraph sounds like it's describing OCD

If she has to do things so precisely, and particularly if counting is a part of her routine, that could easily be causing her to take longer than intended to get ready. One of the characteristics of OCD involves taking longer than average to do things. I've been dealing with OCD myself for a long time. It takes me about 20 minutes to take a shower, when I'm not washing my hair. When I am, it takes more like 45 minutes. Then there's the time to dry off, put on lotion, deodorant, makeup, etc. Then finding the clothes to wear, getting dressed, going to the bathroom again before leaving the house...It takes me a very long time to get ready to go out--and I'm doing better than I used to! I try to cut my prep time down, and I've made some progress through the years, but still not enough. It's very difficult to do.

[Lil Missy]

48. Sounds like passive-aggressive or controlling behavior. n/t