People who use choke chains on their dogs are cruel & should not be allowed anywhere near an animal

[Clintonista2]

Seriously, you train your pet by suffocating it? Sickening.

[Mutley]

1. Especially the pokey ones.

x(

[Roon]

2. Everytime I walk into a pet shop I check to see if they sell them

and the majority of the time they do

[Posteritatis]

14. Argh, I'd forgotten about the existence of those things. (nt)

[Sanity Claws]

3. I disagree

People's safety comes first.
Some dogs like to dominate other dogs and will lunge across a sidewalk to get at another dog. I've seen this too often and have been afraid for my own safety when the owner is unable to control his/her large dog. A choke collar will bring the dog into line quickly.

[LeftyMom]

5. A choke collar is not a substitute for adequate training.

A dog that lunges at the end of the leash is likely to pull the leash from the walker's hand. The key is to end the lunging behavior, which can be done perfectly well with simple training techniques in most cases. Should a special collar be needed, many varieties are available which limit the behavior without risk of injury to the dog.

[KG]

6. a dog lunging at other dogs has a problematic owner,

and needs a different solution than a choke chain.

[lukasahero]

24. Or, you know, maybe hasn't had the luxury of perfect socialization from birth

But go right ahead and judge every dog/owner by your perfect standards without knowing any details if it really makes you feel better. :eyes:

[KG]

26. take a flying fuck.

gee, that really makes me feel better! :)

[LeftyMom]

28. The funny thing about dogs is that they're crazy resilient.

For some crazy reason most of the people I know do rescue, and that means most of the animals I know have experienced some seriously imperfect past socialization. Bred half to death, left on a chain, ignored, fought, used for bait, mutilated, eaten up by parasites, abandoned, you name it and some critter I know and love and bring treats has been through it.

And you know what? None of them are on choke chains.

[lukasahero]

29. I made no comment in the post you're replying to about choke chains

I was replying to the poster who suggested that a dog lunging at another dog is simply a problem with the owner. My point: an unsocialized dog needs to be taught correct behavior and teaching that behavior correctly takes time.

I know your affiliation with rescue dogs. Sorry if you're unaware of mine.

[foxfeet]

4. Just out of curiosity, what do you use?

Dental floss?

[Shell Beau]

8. I know you weren't asking me, but I use a leash.

My small dog has a harness, and the bigger dog has a regular neck leash. No choke chain needed.

[Clintonista2]

18. A leash

[Shell Beau]

7. I think it is ignorance. Or maybe even laziness.

Some people figure if they sell them, they must be ok. Dogs need to be properly trained most importantly. If they are, then they wouldn't need a choke chain. And if they can't get properly trained past the point of using a choke chain, they need to be reconsidered as a pet.

[quickesst]

9. Ha ha...

.."Seriously, you train your pet by suffocating it? Sickening."

Actually, if you suffocated your pet, you would no longer have a pet. My opinion is that there are different types of dogs. Some may respond to the more gentle training methods, and that is a good thing. Other dogs with more aggressive natures may require methods such as choke chains to discipline them to the point they are not a threat to other dogs or people. If one desires to keep such a pet, and the bond created by pet and owner is strong, I feel it's acceptable. The alternative is the pound or voluntary euthanasia by the owner, which, given those alternatives, I would say the choke chain is preferable. Given a moment of "human" clarity, if a dog were asked, "Would you rather be yanked a little here and there, or dead?", I'm pretty sure the majority of dogs response would be, "Yank away Hotrod!". Thanks.
quickesst

[Shell Beau]

10. They are pretty cruel. Have you ever put one around your neck

and pulled hard? There are other methods. They may take more time, but if you are going to be a pet owner, it comes with the territory.

[quickesst]

20. No, I haven't....

...but then again, I don't chase cars, bite strangers, nor do I attack other humans simply because they're there, or I feel threatened by their presense. If one owns a pet they cannot discipline, yes, discipline which some seem to think is something other than "train" by the more gentler and preferable means,then go ahead, shoot the animal, or pass the problem onto someone else, and you don't have to deal with the headache. If you actually read and understood my previous post, you understand that I do not advocate the use of a choke chain as a rule, but think the use is better for the pet, society, and myself.Rather than pass the problem of an aggressive pet onto someone else to take care of the dirty work, I'd rather use a method that, in the end, would make that action unnecessary. I've seen this before. "Enlightened" people have a way of equating animals with human beings, which, in reality, is ludicrous. My son, grandson, and granddaughter are not pets.
quickesst

[Shell Beau]

21. Who said they were? I sure didn't.

I don't think my child is a pet either. But there are right ways and wrong ways to go about things. If one isn't willing to take the time and effort to properly train a dog, then they don't need to have one. It is really as simple as that. No one said having a dog is easy. It takes a lot of time and patience. If someone has neither, they don't need a dog. Too many people are in love with the idea of having a pet, and they have no idea what it really takes to care for one. Is it easier to use a choke chain? Sure. Does it solve the problem? Nope. It just hurts the dog. Physically hurts the dog.

[flvegan]

11. "Discipline" them?

You don't know much about dogs, do you?

[LeftyMom]

30. Or what that word means, apparently.

Discipline means "instruction given to a disciple." Sounds like discipline is supposed to be something gentle and non-violent to me. :shrug:

I <3 etymology.

[Texasgal]

12. I rescued a female pit bull

that was tethered to a tree in a torrential rainstorm. I climbed the fence cut the chain and took her home with me...

I was disgusted and heartbroken.. she is doing great now, I cared for her about a year and adopted her out.

HATE people like that!!!

[flvegan]

13. Terrorist.

:rofl:

[Texasgal]

15. riight?

The owners of the daisy only asked about her about a week after I took her! WTF??

Yeah...I must be a terrorist and I would do it again in a heartbeat!

[MadMaddie]

16. So here is a story about my Maddie one of my current pets

She was horribly abused, she was left tied to a tree while the owners let other dogs attacked her. We got her around 8 months old.

Fortunately, she was spirited away by doggie sammaritons and she entered our lives. She is part Rhodesian Ridgeback and terrier and is 38 pds.

We have Max who is now 7 and Maddie is now 3 they get along famously.

Every Sat and Sun we go on a dog walk, my partner takes Maddie to a corner and throws the frisbee and she is happy as a kite 30 min. We also work on socializing her so we put the frisbee up and put her plastic muzzle on so she can socialize without getting herself in trouble.

Now, when we walk Maddie during the week we use the pinch collar. We are very strict with her and we can now step to the side make her sit and let the other dog walk by. Her regular collar isn't effective when she is lunging at other dogs, through training we have mitigated her bad habits but have not totally eliminated them.

Adding a note: MadMaddie is where my name came from....she's not so mad anymore!

We as responsible owners do not put Maddie in situations where she will fail. This is for her safety and for other dogs safety.

So having said that I have seen owners that abuse their dogs with these collars.

[old mark]

17. Our dog wears a choker, but he has it only to carry all his ID tags and

licenses. He has worn it since before we got him and he hates to be without it - it is his jewelery. We NEVER use it to attach to a leash - he has a web harness for that.

mark

[JCMach1]

32. Plus some dogs destroy leather collars... so for tags +1

My dog does a good enough job choking herself on a normal lead... I really don't want to have to break out the oxygen.

She is an extremely stubborn (untrainable for certain things) rescue sight hound mix (Saluki and ???). She also guards her food.

[Old Troop]

19. I agree - we always use a standard collar.

It's funny how some of our dogs have become fond of it and will push their head into it after a bath.

[Orrex]

22. And people whose dogs don't have choke-chains shouldn't let their dogs near people.

Though I suppose that a muzzle would be an acceptable possibility, assuming that the muzzle will keep a large dog from jumping up on a person and/or knocking that person to the ground.

[Demoiselle]

23. Pinch collars and choke collars are not the same.

A pinch collar sends a message (a very strong one) but does NOT choke. The pinchy prongs get a dog's attention, very fast, without cutting off his air supply. A choke collar simply suffocates.. and .good grief, suffocation is no way to train any animal!

[lukasahero]

25. We have switched to the gentle leader leash/collar combination

Bella doesn't like it but she's getting used to it and walks like an angel on it.

We did use the choke chain at first - under strict education of how to use it as a correction tool and not a choking tool but she responds better to positive reinforcement. She is afraid of everything and puts on a big show when approached by other dogs while on a leash but with the gentle leader she doesn't even try to 'act tough' around other dogs.

I believe in different teaching methods for different dogs but also realize that most people using choke collars don't know how to use them correctly.

[Missy Vixen]

27. We use a Starmark collar

If you'd like to see what they look like, please go to http://www.triplecrowndogs.com/product/1583/StarMark-Collar.html. The collar consists of plastic links that provide a nudge instead of digging into the dog's neck. We got the collar from our dog's trainer, who's considered to be the preeminent trainer in the Seattle area. She's been using StarMark collars on dogs for years now.

Our eighteen-month-old Lab had little socialization before we got him. He was also almost impossible for me to walk because of the pulling. With the StarMark collar, I can walk him, I can give gentle discipline when he's not following directions, and above all, we're not hurting him.

Our next-door-neighbor thinks that since she watches "The Dog Whisperer", she is an expert on dog training. She tried to put a pinch collar on our dog one afternoon. Let's just say it was a short conversation.

We're pleased with the collar, and can see a real difference when he wears it. I will not put a pinch or choke collar on our dog. Ever.

[Symarip]

31. I dislike choke collars, but they can be effective.

In fact, most dog obedience tools, sans electrocution, can be used successfully, if the owner uses them correctly. I use prong collars, not choke collars, and have had great success.

Prong collars don't choke and if fitted properly are incapable of choking. These collars mimic how dogs (wolves) discipline each other in the wild by applying pressure to the neck (similar to a nip). If anyone feels so inclined, you can put one on yourself and see what it does. I have - it's surprising how they feel a lot different than they look. As long as you fit your dog with them correctly, they are a great in tool in training your dog. Far greater than a choke chain or gentle leader.

The problem though, regardless of restraining method, lies in the owner and inadequate training. I have a hyper active dog. When he was a puppy, he didn't sleep. Puppies typically sleep half the day. When my dog was a pup, he did not sleep but maybe 2 hours a day. He is just that wound up. He is also extremely strong willed and does not respond to typical means of owner displayed dominance. Training him has required me to change how I act and react. Not all dogs are the same and so not all training is the same either.

In the beginning, I tried everything. Being soft, being hard, choke collars, gentle leaders, working with treats, working with clickers. When I look back on our journey together, I firmly believe any other owner would have given up, probably turning him in to be put down. Yes, he was just that crazy. Over time, I found a method of dealing with him that works for both of us and he is a very happy dog, responds to well over 20 commands, and though very excited, walks with restraint and obedience.

I work with my dog, not against him. If a dog is lunging out, the choke collar becomes a crutch, not a learning tool, to keep the animal restrained. The problem is the owner, not the dog, or the collar, for that matter.