I don't care who you are: We are all damaged goods

[Taverner]

From the time dad was too drunk to make it to our soccer game, to the time mom was taking all of her angst from dad out on us...

The time dad had to work instead of spend time with us, to the time mom could only see us as smaller versions of dad or herself...

Shit I could go on, but I shouldn't - I think you get my point.

Kids are raised by those most unreliable of all species: homo sapiens.

For all of our moon landings and cancer cures, we are just animals trying to live like immortals. We try to be everything at once. When our parents act perfectly human, we kids don't get it and say to ourselves "I'll never be like that when I am a parent." Lather, rinse, repeat.

So it should come as no surprise that all of us are damaged goods. We all have pain - if you don't then you must not be human - and I really mean that.

What causes us to seek oblivion when what we need is a warm, safe place? The same thing that makes us sabotage the people we love. The same thing that makes us point that revolver right into our mouths and want to pull the trigger.

[rug]

1. After reading your post, the concept of original sin seems less ludicrous.

[Taverner]

2. Original Sin? HA

Sins are not eating apples or asking what is right and wrong

Sins are causing suffering, either to yourself or to others

[AllenVanAllen]

3. The entire world and everything in it is already broken.

For that very reason we should care and value this world and each other because eventually everything will change.
Here's a great quote from Mark Epstein's Psychotherapy Without the Self

"I love this glass. It holds water admirably. When the sun shines on it, it reflects the light beautifully. When I tap it, it has a lovely ring. Yet for me, this glass is already broken. When the wind knocks it over or my elbow knocks it off the shelf and it falls to the ground and shatters, I say, 'Of course'. But when I understand that this glass is already broken, every minute with it is precious."- Ajahn Chah

[Taverner]

5. I like that - Incredibly Apropos

Tell me more about Ajan Chah (I am assuming he is a Theravada Buddhist monk, right?)

[AllenVanAllen]

15. Yes, and Ajahn Chah was a monk in the "Thai forest" tradition

He died in 92' but he taught one of my favorite Western teachers Ajahn Brahm. Your post reminded me of a talk I recently listen to :
"The Negativity of Positivity" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FjmTHULtrM
You seem like a very enlightened fellow. I figured you might appreciate the "broken glass" quote.

We're all flawed and we all suffer but we don't have to let that get in the way of our potential happiness and peace of mind.



Ajahn Chah

[Taverner]

20. I heard about him when I was in Peace Corps

He taught a PCV who went into the monkhood, I believe...

[Odin2005]

27. That Ajahn Chah quote is one of my favorites!

[Taverner]

37. As Atheist as I am, I find Buddhism to be a seductive philosophy

IN so much that its right so often...

[Odin2005]

40. I'm a Atheist too! have you read "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor?

Excellent book. Batchelor claims that the Buddha's teachings are misunderstood as a result of the Buddha's own understandable cultural and intellectual biases that have nothing to do with his core teachings, and following generations of practitioners who tacked on metaphysical and cosmological doctrines that also have little to do with the Buddha's core teachings and also tended to turn the Buddha into a semi-divine figure. Batchelor also puts blame on the Buddhist monastic establishment for elitist doctrinal sentiments that increasingly turned "Enlightenment" into a mystical realm out of reach of all but a very few people. He even questions the need for believing in the popular conceptions of Karma and Rebirth, which are based on the Buddha's intellectual and religious background rather than anything essential to what he taught. He goes on to point out that the Buddha's thoughts on Karma were essentially psychological, not metaphysical, essentially that craving and attachment lead to actions that cause suffering in yourself and others.

As odd as it sounds, the Buddha himself was, in the context of his culture, an egalitarian secular humanist. There is one revealing quote I've ran into in which he exhorts people not to put faith in dogmas and the opinions of experts and to not believe anything at goes against reason and basic common sense.

http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without-Beliefs-Contemporary-Awakening/dp/1573226564

[Taverner]

41. Just ordered it

Will read

[Odin2005]

42. It's a VERY good book!

I got it a few days ago and read from cover to cover in about 4 hours!

[gratuitous]

4. I was about to say "except for me"

And then I read your post, and it really, really hurt.

You were that close to being full of shit.

[Taverner]

6. I'll bet your damage was different, but damage nonetheless - am I right?

Like I said, we are all damaged

Pain is universal

[MorningGlow]

7. Of course

But what determines our fate is whether we succumb to the damage or decide to rise above it. My parents weren't the greatest at raising kids, but I'm not letting that define me and condemn me to a miserable life. I'm continually conscious of how I raise my son, to make sure I don't let history repeat itself. Just one example, of course. The question is, how will YOU (collective "you") decide to overcome your past?

[Taverner]

8. Hey - the damage is there no matter what path you choose

So might as well make the best of it, right?

[Dr Morbius]

10. I think it's best to admit one's faults and try to correct them.

Just because we're damaged doesn't mean we can't fix ourselves. In fact, that's what I think we should do.

[Taverner]

11. That is one way of making the best of them

Another is to avoid said pitfall - but if you don't, there is always another way....

[jotsy]

21. Through the spirit only self can supply, each has their own burdens to beat or bear.

I'm fond of saying I have turbulent roots, and when I lose my cool, they show. So I try not to do that. I've made different choices on how to raise my kids than my parents did by trying really hard to remove fear, belittling and intimidation from a lengthy and challenging process.

I don't know if pasts are a thing we can or are supposed to overcome, just survive with scars that don't impede or outweigh the pursuit of who we believe we want to be, and assurance it's a good thing to want to be that. I try to remember that as much as we are, we are also in the process, a transitional constant which affords us the means to defy long term definition.

To the OP
What you might call compromised, some might characterize as colorful. Consider damage as an impact rather than infliction and believe me when I tell you, perfection is overrated. Harmony was always the objective and such requires a blending of varied tone.

[unpossibles]

9. so true

I think the universality of that is sometimes what keeps me going, knowing that none of us is really alone even when we feel that way. Our mutual pain can be a bond of kinship.

One caveat; I hate when people use their damage as an excuse to 'pay it forward' and be an ass to people all the time. Did you see the recent story linking depression and creativity which discussed the evolutionary benefits of it? It was pretty fascinating, basically saying that depression can cause us to ruminate on our problems, focus better and therefore try to learn from them, although obviously for many it can spiral out of control where we get stuck ruminating and never get to the part where we try to fix what's broken.

I play with these ideas a lot in my music, both the depressing parts and how they can lead you to do more if you accept them on some level.

[Taverner]

12. Awesome! If you can set it to music, you're doing what so many of the wounded have done

Whether it's Van Gogh (art), John Phillips (music), L V Beethoven (music, again) or Eve Ensler (monologues) - then you are using for your benefit, rather than your detriment.

[unpossibles]

32. here's one of my tongue-in-cheek takes on it

called "Assholes and Broken Hearts"

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_3820416

[Taverner]

33. Love it!

:thumbsup:

[pintobean]

13. Nope

I thank my parents for raising me in a loving home and for providing an education and guidance to live a happy life. I'm not damaged from mistakes or bad times. Those were learning experiences.
As an adult, I'm the product of my own choices, good and bad. Making changes to correct the bad ones is a hell of a lot better than crying in my beer.
I'm far from perfect, but I'm not damaged.

[Taverner]

14. Ah - the "I'm too cool for this" defense

My parents were good too - they did the best they could

That's all that really any of us can be asked

--------------------------------------

But the reality is that you are what you are - and if others have a problem with that, they try to chip away at that which they don't like. You do that, I do that, we all do that.

You have to accept yourself, warts an all. And accepting imperfection is part of that.

---------------------------------------

We are all damaged. Long live the damaged!

[pintobean]

19. Other than

your subject line and your last line, I agree with you. That's a different attitude than your op. All I did was state my attitude. It's not cool or defensive. It just is what it is. If you want to label me as damaged, that's fine. I disagree. I don't think I'm special or better than anybody and I don't view many people as 'damaged'.

[Taverner]

22. I think we agree more than we think we do...

[cwydro]

18. Me too.

I didn't expect my parents to be perfect...or maybe I did then, but I sure stopped that somewhere in the high school years.

Most damage that has been done...I did to myself.

[havocmom]

16. It's the 'damage' that makes us truly human

And if we do it right, it makes us much better humans. To fully appreciate the joy of golden sunshine and rainbows, one needs to have walked through some very dark storms.

Makes it easier to understand others too.

[EFerrari]

17. I like 'adventurous" better than "damaged".

lol

:)

[RiffRandell]

23. Totally agree.

Most of my damage comes from my own actions due to a disease I can't get a fucking grip on. I'm trying, though. It truly sucks.

[BuelahWitch]

24. I am far more damaged from people who were/are outside my home

than my Mother, Grandmother or Grandfather. The nasty, hateful kids who grew into nasty, hateful coworkers. Dumbass bosses who don't know shit and hate you because you KNOW they don't know shit. Salespeople who try to pressure you into doing something you don't want because they think the quiet person is a pushover. And lets not forget all those lovely people who pretend to be your friends until they get what they want out of you.
No, I loved going home to my nice little cocoon where I was loved, valued and, for the most part, life was pretty good.

[woo me with science]

25. If it's normal, it's not "damage." nt

[seabeyond]

26. i do and i dont agree. we are all given life to live. how we want to perceive it, create our story

is ours to chose.

i may have an experience that i see no harm with, or experience no pain. another can live the exact same thing and be hurt terribly. experience exactly what you say. that is all of us as uniquely individual characters.

i didn't take my parents ooooopses personally. i did not internalize their bad day. so they are not my curse to bare. my brother on the other hand shifted rights and wrongs to wrongs done to him mostly in stories. and he allows it to dictate his life and he is 50.

when we accept the people we love as perfectly imperfect then it is a lot easier not to internalize.

and i got to disagree with "The same thing that makes us sabotage the people we love". i know people like to say we all do it. but i dont. i have never desired to hurt another purposely (i am sure i have without intent). i know there are people that do. i can say i dont get it, but it doesn't matter that i dont get it. i know it happens, just another imperfection. but i dont and haven't done it.

then there will be people that wont get that, but that is ok.

then i have a universal theory on the event of we all have pain, but not gonna get into that. totally philosophical.

[Odin2005]

28. Great post!

[MilesColtrane]

29. “To love is to suffer.

To avoid suffering, one must not love.

But then, one suffers from not loving.

Therefore, to love is to suffer; not to love is to suffer; to suffer is to suffer.

To be happy is to love.

To be happy, then, is to suffer, but suffering makes one unhappy.

Therefore, to be happy, one must love or love to suffer or suffer from too much happiness.”

[mitchum]

30. They fuck you up, your mum and dad

They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

[Taverner]

34. Dude - how do I rec these posts?

Both of them - this and the one from MilesColtrane before it???

[rug]

31. Nice post for Mother's Day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmhRm_92L_8

[datasuspect]

35. there is a statute of limitations on parental war crimes

it is what it is.

you can grow up or feel sorry for yourself.

[Taverner]

36. How about both? With an equal dose of rage, anger and enlightenment?

Make your crutches your weapons, I say...

[datasuspect]

38. i'm 40 and have less emotional facility than i did when i was 22

i am often unable to cope, make horrendous life decisions, and am beset by a rage to succeed in business.

the raw ambition involved in doing what you love and doing it well and getting paid for it can obscure the confusion enough to become task-oriented.

in other words, i am functionally dysfunctional.

my life is a mess, but i meet my minimal obligations, fulfil my professional role, and manage to stay sane enough to see i am out of control.

but i have to take care of things, regardless.

[Taverner]

39. Then be a Beautiful Mess

Because in the end if you're not at home with you - then what's the point?

[Deep13]

46. For me that SOL would have to be pretty damn short...

...a few hours in some cases.

I still have the damage left over from childhood and that makes me susceptible to parental manipulation, denial and malice today. So when you say grow up and don't feel sorry for myself, I heartily agree and ask you for any practical advice on accomplishing that.

[nickinSTL]

43. I agree that we all have pain

and it is a part of being human.

However, I have to say, that I do not recognize myself in the rest of your post at all.

My parents weren't perfect - my dad gave me crap most of my childhood about my weight. He had no idea that doing so was counterproductive (I don't think he understands that even now), my mom seemed kind of distant while I was younger (she's much better now, I'm not sure when or why the change happened, but it did). But, they were always there for me. They were never drunk, never missed a school event.

I've mostly worked out my pain about my weight (still battling it, but making progress) and my mom and I are now very close.

"Seek oblivion"? I'm not sure what that refers to? Drug or alcohol use? I do neither. I prefer to maintain my control over myself and my world rather than lose myself in mind-altering substances.

And I've never contemplated suicide. Not once. I've had struggles, struggles that break some people - I've seen it happen. They fall into drug abuse, depression and suicide. But that's never been an option for me. I've never gotten anywhere near pointing a revolver into my mouth. And unless I am someday suffering from a condition leading to intense, chronic pain, I doubt I ever will.

I agree we all have pain, I'm no exception. But the course you suggest is not inevitable.

[Courtesy Flush]

44. And people look for mates who have no baggage

How is that even possible? Maybe when you're 19, but if you've been around a while, there's baggage.

[Courtesy Flush]

45. And look at Facebook with their "It's complicated" status.

Show me a relationship that isn't complicated!

[seabeyond]

48. actually the other way around for me. late teens and twenties i used to unfuck all my fuck ups

by the time i hit 30 i didnt have baggage and married at 32 in a great place. i really think that is what makes marriage so easy.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

47. Speak for yourself!

I'm a fucking survivor and I'm not going to use my misfortunes to sabotage the people I love. My sister pulled the trigger of a shot gun in her mouth and left behind a child and a family. My pain is not an excuse to hurt myself or others. I'm a fucking survivor and I always will be.

[Writer]

49. Very insightful, Taverner. I really appreciate this thread.

I've always felt that kids whose boundaries are never respected, who are denied their feelings and are physically abused, have to pay for the torture twice:

Once, while enduring the treatment as children;

and again as adults, as they try to navigate the minefield of relationships made more difficult because of their experiences.


Abuse is like disabling your children then throwing them to the wolves.

It's for this reason that I've waited so long to have children. I simply don't know what I might do, and I don't want to continue what is considered "normal" for my immediate family.

[Schema Thing]

50. Most parents do a stunningly poor job, I agree.

I think my parenting was exponentially better than that of my parents.


But probably a full 80% of that improvement came from (both me and my child's mother) rejecting the cult-like religion our parents raised us in.

Also we divorced and worked as a team, rather than staying together and projecting our own emotional drama onto our child.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

51. Whoa..............

ain't no one perfect, but you sound kinda close to the edge friend....... everything ok? :wow: