A C R O S S T H E S E A

[undeterred]

[UndertheOcean]

1. Do Re Mi ....n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. A B S

[slay]

54. lol

anti-locke brakes.. heheh

[charlie and algernon]

3. A L L I S O N J A N N E Y

can't wait!

[Bucky]

4. My prediction. Allison Janney will portray...

Smoky McMib's "crazy mother".

Why not? She played Juno's.

[undeterred]

17. And Martin Sheen will be his "cool father".

:hide:

[elleng]

34. Glad she got a trip to Hawaii!!!

[Whisp]

5. S A Y I D ! ! !

and Sun and Jin.

:cries:

[Bucky]

8. T H E R E . I S . N O . S A Y I D

and despite their maudlin last hand-holding scene, drowning is a truly horrifying, panic-filled, agonizing way to die

:laughs at your pain:

[undeterred]

10. S A Y I D W E N T TO THE D A R K S I D E.

[Bucky]

12. S U R E, B U T D E S M O N D F L I P P E D H I M B A C K A G A I N

Unless you missed it, the core subtext of this show is that good lookin' people are valient & virtuous while the homely people are all corrupt, villainous, stupid, or inclined to die needless red shirt deaths.

[charlie and algernon]

15. Hurley being the huge exception to the rule

no pun intended

[charlie and algernon]

16. and Bernard and Rose and Charlie

[Whisp]

13. he's so beautiful.

would be such a shame if he was a dick in real life.

[gatorboy]

6. All your questions will be answered!!!!

pinky swear!

[TCJ70]

7. THIS IS A LOST THREAD! Spoilers ahead!

I'm only posting this to help avoid the "why post spoilers" posts by people who, for some reason, can't stay away from what they know are spoilers.

[Bucky]

9. I can't watch LOST this week. It's up against the Tosh.0 marathon on Comedy Central.

a man's gotta know his limitations

[TCJ70]

14. You should request a web redemption...

...how dare you skip a new episode of LOST?

[slay]

55. Bwhahah

"And this week we give Lost fan Bucky a web redemption so he can choose the right fucking show this time!" :rofl:

[Whisp]

11. meaning of this title...

was it Sayid that said Flocke couldn't go in water, or something to that effect?

so many tiny little tidbit lines that can get LOST.

I'M NERVOUS!

[Ohio Joe]

18. Yikes, they launched right into it

No previously on LOST.

[charlie and algernon]

19. i think the previouslies would take too long, lol

[TCJ70]

20. Was that Latin?

[Bucky]

79. Sounded Greek

to me

[charlie and algernon]

21. um, no umbilical cords?

sorry, just picking a nit

[Ohio Joe]

22. heh, I was just thinking that

Not to mention how clean they were.

[TCJ70]

24. There was some clear imagery though.

Jacob = no crying
MIB = loud baby

[charlie and algernon]

26. i was all ready to give MIB a name

then of course they had to pull that she only thought up one name. X(

[undeterred]

23. Not necessary on the LOST island

Its one of those things.

[charlie and algernon]

25. LOL

:rofl:

[elleng]

27. OMG!

[charlie and algernon]

28. cave light = tree of knowledge in Garden of Eden?

[Ohio Joe]

29. Hard to say

I guess we are to assume she is telling the truth to them but who knows.

[TCJ70]

30. The light side of the force?

MIB sold himself over to the dark side? Hrm...

[charlie and algernon]

31. i'm guessing MIB can't keep himself from going into the cave and is punished by Janney

and that pushes him over to the dark side

[Bucky]

38. Or SHE pushed him over to the dark smoky side

But I guess we all saw that one coming. People on this show always say "I'm sorry" before killing their frenemies.

[TCJ70]

32. So if MIB sees dead people...

...could that mean he was lying about being Jacks dad?

[Ohio Joe]

33. Should have know all along

mommy complex caused all of it.

[gatorboy]

52. Heh! Interesting considering a bulk of the regular cast seem to have daddy issues.

[Bucky]

35. Adam & Eve got kicked out of the Garden. Lilith never did. She just got mouthy & Adam divorced her.

So I'm guessing Allison Janney is Lilith.

[charlie and algernon]

36. the donkey wheel!

[TCJ70]

37. The lesson of this episode is:

Don't like somebody? Hit them in the head with a rock.

[Ohio Joe]

43. heh

:rofl:

[Bucky]

44. That's a big change from previous episodes.

Normally you're supposed to hit them with an oar.

[undeterred]

39. So which brother gets to be on the Supreme Court?

:shrug:

[charlie and algernon]

40. this is my blood the blood of the NEW and everlasting covenant

take it and drink

[Bucky]

42. But wouldn't this ep be taking place before all that?

I think that was Greek they were talking in the cold open. That, or their Korean was excellent.

[charlie and algernon]

45. unless it is that

i couldn't tell what langauge they were speaking in the beginning, so I don't know. But that wine scene was AWFULLY familiar


and now allison janney is dead!

[swimboy]

41. I think he's infected.

Uh-oh.

[charlie and algernon]

46. well now we know

so WHO is MIB????

[Ohio Joe]

47. Well....

At least they were not Rose and Bernard.

[Bucky]

48. Remember when Jack said they'd only been dead ~ 20 years?

He was wrong. The bodies of gods don't decay, I guess.

[undeterred]

49. So is anyone else more confused now than you were before this episode?

Cmon you can tell me.

[Bucky]

50. The answer to the mystery is the ultimate source of life, good, & evil. Do you really need more?

How much more do you need? Sheesh.

[swimboy]

51. Which everyone has always known

simultaneously kills one and turns one into an immortal smoke monster.

Religion 101.

[undeterred]

57. Who is Jacob's father?

[SoxFan]

64. John Edwards

[Bucky]

80. !!!

:) I'm just glad I wasn't drinking milk when I read that.

[undeterred]

89. Yeah, I had the feeling he's been screwing around forever.

[XemaSab]

103. FTW

:rofl:

[slay]

53. Damnit. Ok well next week is gonna be one helluva LOST week

since we got to see exactly ZERO of the main characters this week.

I actually thought this a very solid and good ep - BUT it should have been paired back to back with a regular ep. With so few left that was NOT cool to leave us with none of the main cast for a whole week!

Still, love the show - wish ABC and DL/CC would change their minds and continue the show in some form. Man next week is gonna be all about LOST!

May 20th in theaters around the country DL and CC are going to answer questions live via satellite - and I'm guessing show the first 20 mins of so of the finale - that's just a guess though. $12.50 a ticket. Can't decide if is worth it or not. Hrmmm..

<---- Hey look familiar bottle!

[Ohio Joe]

56. Some thoughts on this episode

OK, I'm up early this morning and I just re-watched this on on-demand and really... a disappointing episode. A few things:

1 - WTF was up with Allison Janney's character? I was thinking she might have been a smoke monster but then she was killed with that knife Sayid tried to kill NotLocke with (Sayid failed). Did Sayid fail because NotLocke spoke before he stabbed him? WTF would speaking have to do with the knife killing a smoke monster or not? Why not resolve these questions at this point? oh.. and I figure she almost had to be a smoke monster or how did she kill everyone and fill in all the wells while MIB was knocked out?

2 - MIB/Smokey/NotLocke - WTF? I can almost see saving the reveal of his name for the end of the episode but leaving that unanswered? or mumbled perhaps... Janney's character said something before she thanked MIB but after she was stabbed and even though I was really trying to catch what she said, I still could not make it out. Did anyone catch what she said there?

3 - The cave. Again, if they are going to bring up something big at this point in time, they really should have given out some more information about it.

I really felt that if they were going to do an "origin" episode at this point, they should have given all or at least most of the answers. I'm left feeling that this could have been a great way to reveal the secret of the island and used the last three and a half hours to reveal who would live, who would die and who would be left guarding the island.

[charlie and algernon]

58. but they already revealed the secret of the island

it's the gateway to hell that needs to be guarded and kept shut. What they showed last night was just how Jacob and MIB got be there and how they ended up on the sides that they did. So now the last three hours can be about who of the remaining candidates die and who survives to replace Jacob and MIB.

[Goblinmonger]

59. My thoughts on your thoughts

1. I don't think she was a smoke monster in the same way that Flocke is because I don't get the impression she went through the tunnel and became "worse than dead." But some "demi-god" perhaps. Put in charge of protecting the light. She wasn't immortal per se. There is clearly some level of surprise needed in the killing of whatever level of "god" they are. I'm fine living with that--I don't see that as a deep question I need answered in the big wrap up.

2. I thought there were a couple times where there was a playful flipping off of the fan base. Not giving us the name was one of them. Another was the "Look, every time I answer a question it is just going to lead to more questions" line.

3. I'm fine not knowing any more about the cave. It is the source of what makes us human. It's also a portal to malevolence as Jacob told us earlier. When Flocke went through, he was transformed into some level of "demon."

[MorningGlow]

60. Sorry, that's as much as you're going to get

Lindelof and Cuse have said repeatedly that they're not going to give out every single teeny tiny detail, that some things are going to be left in the cloud of mystery. So if you don't like that idea, bail now. I mean it--don't watch the finale--because you're going to think of something that they don't answer and then you're going to be pissed that they didn't.

I wanted to know where Greek Mama Demigod came from, but I realize I'm not going to get that answer. I wanted to know who the twins' real mother was, but I realize that didn't matter.

MIB's name--in the weekly post-ep analysis on E! Online, it said that he does have one and they might reveal the MIB's name later. But really, does it matter?

I'm pretty sure Greek Mama Demigod started to say "thank you" (came out "thank--") before her conversation with MIB when she did get all the words out.

"Not speaking" is just a caution against letting the MIB talk you out of it--in other words, if he talks to you, you're going to end up not killing him because he's broken down your defenses. A total stranger who's never spoken to you is easier to kill than someone who "becomes someone" by engaging you in conversation.

The cave--again, that's all you're going to get. It's the Source. What more can be said?

[charlie and algernon]

61. well said

the forums at televisionwithoutpity are in an uproar lately. After last night's episode, the meme over there is that they didn't get the RIGHT answers. Of course no one over there actually says what answers they want to get. Just that they didn't get the RIGHT ones. :eyes:

I seem to think that next weeks episode could have Jacob and MIB take Jack and Locke off into the woods, sit them down and proceed to answer EVERY. SINGLE. question that's still remaining and you would STILL have people complaining that it's not enough or it's still not the RIGHT answers.

At this point people have developed their own pet theories about what the island is and no matter that the answers are, if they don't match the pet theories, then people won't be satisfied. I say let it ride and enjoy the experience of the last episodes.

[MorningGlow]

63. I have posted on this before, both in the weekly LOST thread and others

That people have preconceived notions about how they want their favorite show to play out, and when it doesn't match their own imagination, they decide they "hate" the entire show. Kind of like an entertainment-world-version of the current political scene/presidential administration. ;) But let's not talk about GD at the moment...

Anyway, I noticed this when Battlestar Galactica ended--anybody who didn't get what they wanted completely freaked out and pitched a fit. But fans get so heavily invested that they fail to realize some essentials:

1) Being a fan is not the same as being the producer. It is not THE FANS' show; it's the WRITERS' show. If the fans want a show to end their way, they're going to have to create, pitch, write, and produce their OWN show.

2) The writers and producers can't read viewers' minds and, more important, for the most part they aren't interested in what fans think. They have their own vision and it's playing out according to their own ideas--nobody else's. When producers and writers have tried to form a show according to what they read on the fan forums, it creates a lesser show.

3) Throwing the baby out with the bathwater (fans pitching a fit every time something doesn't jibe with their own ideas and then trashing the entire show because of it) does no one any good. The plotline is what it is, and fans declaring they hate the entire show is just cutting off their nose to spite their face. The producers won't care--not a bit.

Bottom line (and this I have definitely posted on LOST threads before): A popular TV show is a RIDE. Viewers don't get to steer. If fans would just stop trying to grab the controls and instead let the ride take them where it's going to go, it'd be a whole lot easier to accept the story and ending that's proffered.

All I know is, it's gonna be ugly the night of and the day after the finale. Worse than BSG. The weeping and wailing and rending of garments and gnashing of teeth will be legend.

[Mojambo]

67. "It's the Source. What more can be said?"

How about the source of what, exactly?

I wouldn't consider that a "single teeny, tiny detail" personally.

[MorningGlow]

68. Kee-rist

Use your freakin' imagination, whydoncha? Or do you want everything spoon-fed to you? (Hint: If the answer is yes, you should reconsider being a fan of this show.)

[Mojambo]

70. That's a cop out.

Why watch TV at all if I'm just going to use my imagination to fill in huge holes.

Again, we're not talking about a tiny little plot point here. It's not "who was the twins mom?" or "What specific crime Kate committed that one time?"

This is one of the fundamental questions of the whole fecking show. If the writers are going to get to this point and then say, "Ah, we're stepping away. You just fill in the blanks." I have to offer them a hearty FUCK YOU.

Thankfully I don't think that'll be the case with the cave/light. There's more to come on that question, and there damn well should be.

[MorningGlow]

72. I disagree

All the best fiction, be it on television or in books etc., has an element of participation--of "filling in the blanks for yourself". A certain air of mystery, of some questions left slightly unanswered, to keep fans' imagination churning, is the hallmark of a classic piece of entertainment.

Plus, as Charlie and Algernon said elsewhere on this thread, we could have an entire episode of nothing but straight-out answers, and people STILL wouldn't be satisfied.

[Mojambo]

76. I agree there's always an ELEMENT of it.

But when you're telling someone a tale, it's incumbent upon the story teller to bring the goods when it comes to the big stuff.

The nature of the island/light IS the big stuff.

I think they'll get there.

[Goblinmonger]

73. Our humanity

Remember that she said people would want it. Jacob asked what it was. She said it was what made them human (or something like that) and that they just want more. If you're not good with that discussion as an answer, then I don't think you will like anything short of a writer sitting down in front of a camera answering fan questions for 4 hours.

[Mojambo]

75. That is generally where they are headed.

She said something like, "It's what makes people, people." or something.

She also said going in there would be "worse than death."

So are they angels and is going into the light something akin to falling from heaven? When MiB was thrown in there his human form died, but he emerged as the smoke. How does that relate with the light being something as vague as "our humanity?"

Is it our humanity or some aspect of humanity? Perhaps our free will?

There's still lots to explore here, and it's stuff they've been dancing around for nearly the entire series. They don't get to walk away without telling a somewhat complete tale.

At least imho.

[Bucky]

82. Don't ever read Moby Dick. It ends in a swirling vortex. You'd go "Vortex of WHAT? Vortex to WHERE?"

And don't sit next to me when I watch Raiders of the Lost Ark. You'd totally spoil that climax for me too.

[Mojambo]

86. Vortex of water? To the bottom of the sea?

It doesn't seem all that complicated.

You know, cause the sea, it ACTUALLY EXISTS. We're all pretty familiar with it.

I don't recall seeing too many caves emitting supernatural light that somehow represents "humanity."

One might just require a tad more exploration and/or explanation within the context of the story for the second one.

IMHO.

People keep accusing those of us dissatisfied (and to be honest I'm not all THAT dissatisfied) with how they are wrapping the show with wanting "all the answers." That's not the case at all. There's a difference between wanting some important answers and all the answers.

[Bucky]

87. For what's it's worth, both of your answers are wrong.

[Mojambo]

88. Well, don't be too hard on me. I've never read Moby Dick. n/t

[grace0418]

69. I thought the episode was clunky, almost like watching an old Bible movie.

[Bucky]

83. Shyeah! It was an old Bible movie. That's totally the point, the question of man's intrinsic evil.

They've been plotting that particular theme out since season one.

[Bucky]

81. I don't need them to spell out every single detail for me. It's not that kind of show.

Remember how Lucas ruined the Force by pulling that "midichloridians" shit out of his ass? You don't want to explain too much. Showing is better than telling.

This week was chock full of answers. Even in real life the answers lead to new questions. I'm truly satisfied with what they've told me about Jacob & MIB's origins. I kinda even like the teasing they did to keep from telling us MIBby's name. I'd only be disappointed if they said at the end, Oh yeah, this if Marvin, Jacob's twin brother. What the cheese?--Marvin?!?

[unpossibles]

62. His name was Goofus

http://twitpic.com/1n2bvj

[Bucky]

84. !!

Perfect!

[semillama]

65. Note on languages/dress

I believe the language at the beginning was Latin (wasn't there an episode in an earlier season where the Others were speaking Latin). The clothing was consistent with classical Greek/Roman dress. Combine that with the Egyptian motifs elsewhere in the show, and you get a time frame that points to Ptolemaic Egypt.

Of course, it could also be pointing to the island as the source of the Atlantis myth, too.

[hedgehog]

66. That's something I don't get - why speak Latin but have a statue of an Egyptian god?

For that matter - who built the statue?

Not to mention- the proto-Others' village looked more Celtic than anything else.

BTW - Where was the Island when Claudia was shipwrecked? Could it have been in the Mediterranean?

[Bucky]

85. The Romans were nuts for Egyptian mythology--moreso than the English 1700 yrs later

Despite what St Paul tries to imply, Christianity came to Rome & Greece through Egypt. It's a very natural confluence.

[semillama]

98. Well, they were building shelters with the materials on hand

so it probably wouldn't have looked like a developed Roman villa. And of course, just because they are speaking Latin and dressed like Romans/greeks, doesn't mean they're from Italy. They could be Celtiberians or Gauls.

[slay]

71. It definitely took balls to air an ep one week from the finale with NONE of the main cast

in it. A move I'm glad the writers felt comfortable with cause it really was an interesting ep. Glad to see Lost go out on its terms. If Smokey gets off that island - man look out! :evilgrin:

[Duer 157099]

74. I'm guessing MIBs name is Esau n/t

[undeterred]

77. But in the Bible Esau is born first and Jacob tricks him out of his birthright.

The Biblical Jacob was deceitful. So maybe L O S T is just flipping it?

[Duer 157099]

78. Of course they are

The elements are there, including their parent (father, Isaac) asking Jacob to promise to never kill Esau.

It's sort of a mirror image, much like many other aspects of the whole series.

edit: like a "sideways" version of the Biblical story

[hedgehog]

90. Except that the Mother and Claudia both spoke Latin, not Hebrew.

[undeterred]

91. So they're the first Catholics.

:hide:

[Duer 157099]

92. It's not literally Jacob and Esau of Biblical times

Although, it *could* be a sideways version of them, I suppose.

[slay]

94. LOST is not a christian allegory

it borrows from many religions, science, myth, etc.

[Duer 157099]

100. I'm not saying it's an allegory

I could imagine the whole concept for the show originating with someone saying "What if... Jacob and Esau existed in a 'sideways' world" and then spinning the whole thing from that premise.

That's not an allegory, it's a parallel reality theme.

[mattomjoe]

93. Count me among the loyal viewers who expects to be disappointed with the finale

I feel like seasons 2-4 got the Bobby Ewing coming out of the shower treatment. All that stuff about the Dharma Iniative and pregnant women dying on the island, etc. feels completely cast aside in favor of the Jacob vs. MIB storyline. I can handle finales that are open ended, but it seems to me that the writers invested a lot of time developing a story in the first seasons of the series that do not appear to be pivotal to the conclusion. I don't know, maybe I've not paid close enough attention, or they will address A LOT in the last 3.5 hours yet to air. We'll see, I suppose....

[slay]

95. Way to go in negative..

read what the writers have said about these last few episodes and maybe you'll feel better. i forget the site that has the interviews - hitflix maybe - look it up. if you're expecting answers though - you've been watching the wrong show. :rofl:

the pregnant women die for whatever reason you want. 1. if they come there pregnant, they don't die. 2. it's cause jacob was already immortal and having too many immortals on the island makes for trouble. 3. it's the weird energy/magnetism. 4. arron is now immortal having been born on the island.

the ep last night was right - it'll all just lead to more questions.

me - i'm stoked for the finale and want it to be just what it is - not my version - i can write that in my head any day. :P

[LanternWaste]

97. One does not deny the other...

"maybe I've not paid close enough attention, or they will address A LOT in the last 3.5 hours yet to air"

One does not deny the other...

[hedgehog]

96. Whatever happened to Walt, and what made him so special?

or was he kidnapped merely because he was one more kid for the Others?

[SoxFan]

99. Drafted by the Los Angeles Clippers

That explains why nobody has seen him in years.

[Bucky]

101. Walt's safe back in NYC, being raised by Michael's mother. He had psychic "powers"

He was outstandingly special in ways that Locke wasn't. Possibly he had the potential for Jacob-caliber powers. But in order to round up Jacob's list, Ben had to agree to let Michael take Walt home. Though he never actually chose Ben, Jacob & the island seem to respect the deals he makes in their behalf.

Probably part of the rules.

[tishaLA]

102. VERY BIG spoilers on Dark UFO

about the next episode, What They Died For: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/major-spoilers-episode-616-what-they.html#axzz0nu1xBrNt

(click on "Are you Sure?")