** OFFICIAL L O S T Post Finale Discussion Thread **

[charlie and algernon]

Other thread is getting big, continue here.

Jimmy Kimmel's show is starting now. Matthew Fox just revealed that the show was Jack's test in life.

Original thread, with play by play of finale is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9374665

[Roland99]

1. I understand the ending but I didn't like it.

I was half-expecting Kirk Cameron to make a cameo appearance.


Or J.R. and Bobby Ewing.

[liberalhistorian]

27. I actually thought they did a good job with that.

It's hard to do scenes like that without becoming overly maudlin or religious and they managed a nice balance.

[Roland99]

38. I was hoping for an ending something like this.....

They defeat the smoke monster, engage some device on the island (like that plug Desmond yanked out) that resets time back to when they were on the original Oceanic flight and they're put back on the flight, the island sinks to the bottom of the ocean (where we saw it in Episode 1 this season)

Then, as the passengers continue their lives in the new timeline, as they meet each other and touch hands or hug or whatever, they start coming to the realization that they WERE on the island and DID defeat the evil and won their lives back. Leave it with an open ending of them moving on in their normal lives...all of them finding peace and redemption for things they've done or left undone.

This whole purgatory, moving on to heaven thing just went over like a lead zeppelin, to me.

[MilesColtrane]

2. fLocke went down WAY too easily.

Why didn't he just turn into smoke when Jack pushed him off the cliff?

[Roland99]

3. When Desmond "unplugged" the island, it changed things

he was made mortal (or almost mortal) again.

[liberalhistorian]

28. I know by that time that I sure wished I could have

pushed him off that cliff!

[Bucky]

4. No, they showed him bleeding. After the light went out, he became a mortal again.

[RandomThoughts]

9. The light has to be in you so that nobody can turn them out on you.

And no fear if someone tries to do that.

[charlie and algernon]

5. i don't think he WAS Smokey anymore

remember, he started bleeding when Jack punched him. I think when Desmond uncorked the island, MIB lost his power.

[Whisp]

6. and the guys are on Kimmel now .... all doin that guy thing

where are the fat Hurley women?

[charlie and algernon]

8. LOL, i think you were watching a different show

You on the same network?

[Whisp]

12. just saying that no way a woman could be a Hurley,

fat guys are cool, fat women are not, don't even go there,

[charlie and algernon]

13. well there was Rose

She was an older, overweight, black woman who was one of the most, if not THE most beloved character on the show.

[Whisp]

16. o come on, she was a token.

in the end the big sheppard christian guys were the apex. as much as I love Rose, she just wasnt' a player

[liberalhistorian]

29. OK, you've more than made your point.

Over and over again. Can't you just let people unwind and enjoy a show without getting political and/or sociological? Or overanalyzing things?

[Touchdown]

32. Yeah. The token sane woman on the show.

Kate-Murderer
Juliette-Sided with the bad guys
Claire-Went nuts
Libby-Is nuts
Anna Lucia-Bipolar anger issues.
Sun-Battered Wife syndrome
Eloise-Controlling know-it-all who tells us NOTHING EVER!
Russeau- Just went crazy like Claire
Shannon- Painting toenails in the sand... That's crazy!

The lessers....
Charlotte- Sane, but panicky on an expedition
Liana- Revolutionary Sucker for lost causes
West Wing Lady- Killer and Smoke Monster's mother! Need I say more?
Nadia- Traitor to Saddam
Carmen-Tacky Catholic decorating her mansion
Penelope-Ok... Sane woman #2.
Alex- Her Dad (not Dad) screwed her up!
Nikki- Jewel thief, and a spider master!

Did I miss anybody?

[Xithras]

73. Not this season maybe...

But in past seasons, Rose was a huge player in the storyline. She was the first person who was saved by Sheppard. She was the social motivator, keeping people grounded, doing her best to hold the community together (beyond the core characers), and offering moral and ethical advice to those who needed it.

In many ways, Rose was a parallel character to Locke. A woman of faith and morals, who came to the island with a broken body and found herself healed, and then had no interest in leaving the island. The primary difference between the two is that Rose had a life full of love, and was content merely to exist, while Locke saw himself as a chosen advocate of the island on a mission, in an effort to find the acceptance that he never found in his outside life.

Yeah, I've thought about this a little. :)

[elleng]

25. Not overweight; dying of cancer, tho.

[Bucky]

15. Well, there's Marilyn Manson in the audience.

Your criticism is valid. I'm not sure it improves on multiple repetitions, however.

[OhioChick]

7. According to Wiki:

"It is believed that the whole course of the time they were on the island that the cast was in purgatory. When they all died they met again in "present day" and have flashbacks as if their lives flashed before their eyes before death."

I'm sort of let down by the ending....

[Roland99]

10. The church scene was much later in time

They all died at different intervals. Some on the island, some back at home.

The "alternate timeline" was one created by, I suppose, their collective afterlife consciousness and when the last of their post-mortem selves finally realized they were dead, they met up in the church to "move on"

[Bucky]

24. Right, or maybe in a place without time.

That's why Kate & Sawyer & Ben weren't really old. It was a place created by their love.

[charlie and algernon]

11. I like Bucky's explaination

the island reality was ALWAYS the real timeline. When characters die in the island timeline, they go to that alternate reality. Like Christian said, there was no specific time when the alternate reality takes place. It took place when the characters were all dead, whenever they died during the island timeline. So probably many years in the future after the island survivors all died of old age, etc..

[OhioChick]

14. That's a much better explanation. n/t

[OhioChick]

19. What about Richard....

He didn't age since the 1400's and now finally has a gray hair. He got a gray hair before he left the island.

???

[Bucky]

23. He was born in the 1830s or 1840s. Jacob stopped his aging. When Jacob died, his aging resumed.

You answered your own question.

[Skip Intro]

33. Why was Eloise trying to stop Des from "waking up" everyone?

What was she trying to prevent?

[rainbow4321]

40. She was more worried about her son going

With the dead Losties..she sadly asked Desmond (paraphrased) "is he leaving with you, too" to which Desmond replied "no, not with **me**". Meaning Faraday was not dead (?) yet so he wouldn't be going with Desmond and the Losties. IMO, he purposely emphasized the word "me" cuz while Faraday will die someday, he had not yet and would not be led by Desmond.

[6000eliot]

42. But Faraday IS dead. SHE killed him.

[rainbow4321]

50. Sorry, forgot that small detail

Then I guess he gets left behind and catches a later flight :) so to speak.

[Goblinmonger]

54. He's not ready yet.

He didn't have the flash when he saw Charlotte (though he knows something is there). He'll get to that point soon and then he'll join them in the church.

[charlie and algernon]

17. Michael just revealed another clue about the ending

Michael is still on the island as one of the voices. So the people in the church are those that died and were "pure enough" to not become one of the "voices"

[Bucky]

18. No, Harold pointed that out. Michael was interviewed earlier

;)

[merh]

26. And don't forget, Ben had things he still needed to work out,

he didn't go into the church with the others.

[XemaSab]

34. Ben was still alive

He wasn't dead, so he didn't go into the church.

[slay]

36. +1

my thoughts as well - either taking care of the island after Hugo died or he's like Richard now.

[charlie and algernon]

20. IT'S BOB F-ING NEWHART!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bucky]

21. I knew it! I called this in the earlier thread.

They left off the snow globe, but I totally called it!







as a celebration, I'm reposting Suzanne Pleshette....

[charlie and algernon]

22. I really don't know why Cuse and Co didn't use the Newhart ending they filmed

WAY better than the one they did use. :rofl:

Who knew Newhart went for younger women like Kate? :shrug:

[brettdale]

30. So let me guess this right

They were all dead.
They were are ghosts waiting to get into heaven.
It was a big test for jack, he did something good he got into heaven.
All those little secrets in the past six years that viewers clinged on to were all just a read hering?

Yeepers, I thought Prison break was bad, when nothing got answered, and all they could up with was, the
bad guy is michael mothers, and the UN now owns Cilla.

24 better be damn good.

[Metric System]

31. They were dead in the flash sideways, not when they were on the island. I think. Ugh.

[slay]

35. Correct

least that's what i took from it. But Christian said the place was timeless so many they lived full lives there - but most likely was just a gathering of all who died - past, present, and future. Except Ben didn't go inside. Maybe he took over for Hurley or is the new Richard? Good stuff.

[apples and oranges]

41. At the end of season 5, why did Juliette's ghost say "It worked"

????

[soleft]

45. I guess the bomb worked - went off

It didn't keep the plane from crashing but it jettisoned them all back to present day island time.

Or maybe the energy of the bomb faciliated the ability for them to create the holding reality where they could gather in order to move on.

[RadiationTherapy]

77. "It worked" referred to the vending machine - turning it off then on again in the hospital.

Which is what Jack and Desmond do on the island.

[Initech]

66. I actually thought it was more Sixth Sense than anything else.

[charlie and algernon]

69. haha, that was a quote from the Jimmy Kimmel show last night

Kimmel showed a clip of the LOST producers making three "alternate endings" and one of them was Bob Newhart waking up in bed with Kate. Cuse yells out, "IT'S BOB F-ING NEWHART!" :rofl:

[coyotespaw]

37. Wait, I thought they were on their way to Mars...

all figments of Sam's imagination.

[Stuckinthebush]

39. The writers were winging it the whole time

That was a terrible ending.

So, the parallel life was some sort of purgatory where they all could meet after they died - some long lives others already dead. They were to meet each other there and then "move on". Evidently Hurley and Ben lived a long life and were "number 1" and "number 2" to each other. Evidently Jack died in the end.

Evidently it was decided by the writers that they could morph a pretty cool scifi/fantasy idea into a lame Christianized life-after-death story.

I'm sorry but that is cheesy.

I expected much better.

[ET Awful]

43. I agree it was lame, but one thing I noticed, was that in the "church"

There were paintings of Krishna, stained glass of Buddhist symbols (Om and the wheel), the Islamic star and crescent, the Star of David, etc.

I think one implied meaning was that ALL are welcome regardless of their religion which kind of detracts from it being "Christianized" in some respects (at least in my opinion).

[Stuckinthebush]

44. I didn't catch that

That is good. I'm glad they did that. I was stuck on the Jesus statue outside the church.

Still a lame ending!

[ET Awful]

49. I thought that was a statue of a Saint, not of Jesus.

Perhaps Saint Anthony (patron saint of lost things and people . . . I've seen him referred to as a caretaker of lost souls). I didn't see a sign on the church, but I'm left wondering if perhaps it was called St. Anthony's or something of the sort (just a thought since the name would be fitting).

And just in case anyone asks . . . no, I'm not Catholic, not religious at all, just remember things I read and hear over the years :).

[soleft]

47. And the pews were like seats in a plane - they were still passengers

[Patiod]

52. I thought that as well nt

[hedgehog]

62. Or - does it suggest that the Creator by whatever name is too

much to be encompassed by any single faith?

[soleft]

46. I actually saw it more as an Eastern life after than a Christian life after

The idea that you have to work out crap in your life before you're ready to move on - if you have more stuff to work out you have to say on a certain level of existence before you can move.

Seems to have some Buddhist elements to me. But then I think Christianity and Jewish mysticism have a lot of common elements with Buddhism.

[hedgehog]

60. How far is the notion of Purgetory from the notion of re-birth?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. You don't watch or read much sci-fi, do you?

The vast majority of it is Christianized life after death stories.

[Stuckinthebush]

57. I wouldn't say the majority

But yes, a lot does.

Still. I didn't like the ending.

Blah.

Oh, well.

[Bucky]

53. It wasn't Christian. No one got judged. The two "punished" (Michael & Ben) were self punished.

The ending was actually pretty transcendental.

There's some Christian imagery, but it was shown to fit along with all the other faiths. The image of the interfaith rose window in the final coffin scene was straight out of Forrest Church's A Chosen Faith: An Introduction to Unitarian Universalism. The fact that the vehicle to get to that transcendental allegory were characters named Christian and Jack Sheppard has to do with it being an American TV show. The destination that the show brought us to was demonstrably not Christianity.

[Stuckinthebush]

58. It seemed so gimmicky

To me, writers who resort to the imagery of mysticism seem to be lazy.

Oh well, to each her own!

[hedgehog]

61. I think many Christians incline to the notion that sin is it's own punishment.

The Fundies still look for a wrathful Judge, but not all of us do. It's not entirely a new point of view. Peter who repents is instantly forgiven, as is Paul. Paul does have to work through his redemption after his experience on the Road to Damascus, but he is set directly on the path. On the other hand, Judas condemned himself by committing suicide. He refused forgiveness.

[Z_I_Peevey]

51. Loved, loved, loved the finale, Here's my take:

The island as metaphor for our own Earth reality transcends time and space, because of its unique properties. It's beginning is unknown, its Creator is unseen. It's rules seem capricious and unfair, until we take the longer, larger view.

It is overseen by a series of demigods, each of whom create their own rules. We are privy to four demigod epochs of varying lengths. The first we see is a time of Allison Janney matriarchy, but then that order is overthrown by a new order, a time of duality. Good and evil, light and dark...always restrained within the circle,in balance as in the Yin/Yang, and represented by twin brothers.

Our own Jack Shepard has a very brief stint as demigod, when his contribution is the concept of sacrifice. The final epoch begins as Hurley takes the reins, assisted by the not-yet-redeemed Ben. What will be the rules in Hurley's tenure? We don't know, we don't see, but we do know Hurley's first task is to free Desmond from the island and return him to his One True Love. We can only assume the Hurley/Ben tenure was successful in a "helping mankind" sort of way, and especially in balancing male and female aspects of existence. After all, Hurley's tenure ends with many, many happy couples.

What a great show. What a great metaphor, especially now that things are looking so bleak in our own reality. I think I want to live under Hurley's rules. Let's go play some golf or ping-pong or something. Let's enjoy an Apollo bar!

[Kajsa]

55. I want to live under Hurley's rules, also.

He was always one of the sanest and most stable of all the characters.
It's ironic that he spent time in an asylum- the patients are
the sane ones?

The church window, showing the symbols of all major religions
showed me this was universal and inclusive of all.

The timeline still has me wondering as to the deaths of the Losties.
Christian Shepard told Jack,

" some before you, some after you"

Did they live out their lives, or were they cut short?
We all die eventually- Was that it?

All I know is I'm going to miss this show.
I've been a Lostie since the first episode.

And I'm going to think about this ending for quite some time.

[Z_I_Peevey]

56. I loved that our group of beloved characters intentionally

formed a community, from which they could all progress to the next level, and the next, and the next.

I'm eager to rewatch the entire series after a little more contemplation. I was prepared to dislike the finale, but this just too good to dislike. I'm a sucker for hope, every time...

[Kajsa]

59. So am I!

I LOVED how everyone was reunited with their loved ones,
made amends( Ben to John) and tied up the loose ends.

It was a happy ending, in a very strange, Lostie way.

:) :hi:

[Z_I_Peevey]

83. I rewatched the last 15 min. before work today

Struck by our Lostie community all looking forward, straight ahead, with happiness, reverence, love...sitting in their seats without so much as a seatbelt...what that says about the grand arc of this show is just so (ha!) uplifting. Movin' onward and upward.

I was a blubbering mess, I don't mind tellin' you one bit.

:hi:

[Kajsa]

86. We are not afraid to

show our emotions,Z_I.
I've noticed that about Losties.

:) :pals:

[soleft]

63. No one died alone

Jack even had Vincent in the end.

[Kajsa]

76. That's a very good point!

Everyone had someone for company.

:)

[XemaSab]

78. Good insight

n/t

[undeterred]

64. Question: What was the name of the motel where Hurley dragged off Charlie?

They showed the sign but I didn't catch it... for some reason I think it was the "Sideways Motel", but maybe my brain is just filling it in.

[Duer 157099]

74. It was something like "Flightline"

Definitely something that would relate to the show.

[RadicalTexan]

65. I was disappointed, but not surprised, yet enjoyed watching

I think what happened on the island happened, then once they all died in the original timeline, they ended up in the alternate reality, which was a kind of purgatory in which they could work out their "issues" (Jack died at the end of the episode as we saw; Hurley, Kate, Claire, etc. died later - we didn't see the rest of their lives, so we just have to fill that in with our imaginations; and I think Ben needed more time in purgatory because he was an evil little fucker who had more "issues") before meeting up in an interdenominational church and going into the light. Puke. They ended up catering to the middle of the road American Touched By an Angel crowd, which I think proves this show wasn't as revolutionary as it thought it was, or as genre-hopping as the hype (more like genre-muddling). There were also too many dead ends and plots left dangling, IMHO.

Giant cop-out.

If they didn't want to make a sci-fi fantasty mystery show, they shouldn't have written one.

That said, I enjoyed watching it, I thought the acting was phenomenal, and I am not sorry I invested the time, cause it was fun. Excellent acting throughout, especially from Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson. I hope Matthew Fox wins an Emmy.

It was definitely way more fun / less of a let-down watching it with others and making fun of it, too.

I'm still trying to get over the blowtorch

[Skip Intro]

67. Didn't the season opener show the island underwater?

Yet, last night, we saw Jack stop the island from sinking.

So what do we make of seeing it underwater at the start of the season?

[MadBadger]

68. Well, a lot of the island did sink...

So maybe the parts we saw under water, are under water

[lost-in-nj]

70. I think I liked it..... I giggled when they used Duct tape for the hose

I thought about the poor duck....

but one of the most heart breaking moments was when Hurley cried after Jack didn't come back up the waterfall and when Vincent laid down next to Jack so he wouldn't die alone..... :-(





lost

[MorningGlow]

71. I lost it when

Sawyer and Juliet recognized one another. Almost as good as the Desmond/Penny stadium scene. :cry:

[Kajsa]

87. So did I, MorningGlow.

The reuniting of Charlie/Claire right after Aaron's
birth REALLY got to me. :cry:

Charlie's death was one of the most tragic
episodes of the show.

[MilesColtrane]

82. "Vincent laid down next to Jack so he wouldn't die alone"

Or, he was just biding his time...waiting for a fresh Scooby Snack.

[MadBadger]

72. What is David Shephard?

That to me is my most important question after the finale.

[XemaSab]

79. I wondered that too

:shrug:

[undeterred]

81. Not dead.

The son of Juliet and Jack. But when Jack came to the island he had been married and divorced, no kids. Juliet's husband had been run over by a bus, and there were no kids. And when Locke talked to Jack after his surgery he told him he didn't have a son.


:shrug:

[underpants]

88. He never existed

he was in the world they created to get back together

[MilesColtrane]

75. Executive producer Damon Lindelof on LOST fans:

"...when you spend time with a 3-year-old, you quickly find out that one question just begets another—there’s a “why” in the wake of every “why”—and the only way to end the conversation is to say, “Oh look, a Chuck E. Cheese!”
The show is doing its best to say, “Oh look, Chuck E. Cheese!” For example, we’ve now given the viewers as much as we’re willing to say...and we’re moving on."

Wow, now THAT'S condescension.

[Mojambo]

84. That's gotta be badly out of context somehow.

Did he actually just equate the fans of his show, that has made him a millionaire many times over, to annoyingly inquisitive three year olds?

LOL

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

80. Hurley was right when he said

"I have a bad feeling about this." Exactly how I felt about the ending.

[The2ndWheel]

85. After a few days, something was really missing from Season 6

They shoot Sayid in the season 5 finale, and kill him off in the season 6 opener, only to bring him back to life, now with a darkness growing inside of him. Then Sayid kills Dogen and the guy with glasses, he lets Desmond live, then kills himself for the good of the group. Something is missing there. If that was Sayid's story in season 6, they easily could have told it by not shooting him in the first place(which had to mean more than just a cliffhanger), or just let him be dead when they killed him. They brought him back for a reason, and I can't imagine it was to blow himself up in a sub.

Then at the end we have Frank, Richard, Kate, Claire, Sawyer, and Miles on the plane. It leaves the island. That's it. We have no other information. The plane just leaves.

Since Locke couldn't kill the candidates, maybe Sayid could, as some sort of undead tool of death. Which it looked like he was going to be, and then just wasn't. Maybe the darkness overtakes Sayid, and he starts killing the people that ended up leaving on the jet plane, his friends, not just Dogen and the other guy nobody really cared about, instead of them leaving on the plane, with no resolution to their story. Sayid has the island darkness growing inside him, but turns out it's really nothing to worry about, and all you had to do was butter the guy up with a few nice words. Major characters are shown just flying off the island for the last time, and we never really even see their reaction to it, and then all of a sudden they're in the place with no time, and we have no clue as to how they died.

It's either really bad writing, or something happened to the script.

[Mojambo]

89. I found the escape from the island rather punchless as well. n/t

[Z_I_Peevey]

90. Some great stuff in Doc Jensen

Lots of things I didn't see the first time: Jack's nosebleed, an explanation for son David's unreality, etc.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20388269,00.html

[greenmutha]

91. I just had my mind blown...

Check out the first couple of responses under this OP over at r/lost on reddit.com:

http://www.reddit.com/r/lost/comments/c7vub/hurley_time/

[Z_I_Peevey]

92. Joining you

on the Couch of the Mindblown. I listened to the sound file. It's Hurley, once you get to "42" it is clear. Forty-freaking-two.

[yellowdogintexas]

93. thank you for posting that link. Awesome article.

made me think