Are there any other INTPs in here?

[MrScorpio]

http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

If you are, do you have a horrible habit of pissing other people off unintentionally?


Just wondering.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Actually many times that is people doing it to themselves.

It is usually vanity, sometimes ego, many other reasons.

Many people can only see how something might relate to them, when they really don't.


:shrug:

I figure some people might get pissed off by some of my posts, but that does not make sense, why would they be upset at a post, when another post has not gotten them to correct issues with proper compensation owed?

See the logic break in that.

[MrScorpio]

2. Just for the record, RT, you've never pissed me off with your posts

Amused me, yes, but never pissed me off.

Keep up the good work.

[RandomThoughts]

5. thanks great to hear that, :)

Although not doing any work really.

Just expressing thoughts. Something I have always done.

If it was work there would be some pay, and I do not deserve any pay for any posts, that would be a claim I don't make. Well maybe the text parts.


I do still hold the same position I had many years ago, I am due compensation for past smears done against me. And I am going to collect on that.

[MrScorpio]

6. Revenge is a dish best served cold. nt

[RandomThoughts]

7. I am not much into revenge.

Don't think in those ideas very often.

[murielm99]

45. Actually, you do piss me off sometimes with your posts.

But I piss people off pretty often, so who cares?

Anyway, this is a message board. If either one of us get unduly upset over what people say to us here, we need to take a step back and grow a thicker skin.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Moi. And yes, I tend to be a social klutz who unwittingly steps in it sometimes.

[MrScorpio]

4. I was just reading this passage and had an "Ah Hah" moment

Where the extraversion of the iNtuition function becomes obvious is during discussions, especially heated ones. In contrast to INTJs, an INTP will often make controversial, speculative points of argument, often annoying the discussion-partner, and make them in such a way as to leave the impression that he is very serious about what he says.

In reality, the INTP is not actually even certain himself whether he really stands by what he is saying, but his Ne strongly suggests that there must be a core of truth there. The purpose then of his outspoken style of argument is to sharpen his own intuitive understanding by testing the reaction of the listener, and indeed to examine the logic of his own arguments in real time while speaking them out.

On occasion, INTPs may seem brash and tactless, but for themselves it is part of their way of getting closer to the truth. This is another aspect of the Ne grappling with the external world (in this case discussion with another) to understand it. The Ne provides the raw material for the Ti core to analyse. The INTJ, on the other hand, with Ni dominant and Te as secondary, tends to avoid letting uncertain speculative ideas out in the open: he presents a more considered structured viewpoint to the world while holding his private thoughts free for intuitive reasoning.

The INTJ resembles a chess player, ruminating on the possibilites and then making decisive accurate moves. If the INTP played life as chess, he would keep wishing to modify the allowed-move-properties of his various pieces to optimise his strategy, find that that isn't allowed, and ask to start the game afresh! The ENTP chess player would indeed modify the rules to his advantage and complain that the standard rules were inadequate! The ENTJ would play by the standard rules but insist on making the moves for his opponent as well !

I almost felt dirty reading that.

[Sisaruus]

11. "...getting closer to the truth..."

I'm an INTP and I've been known to fit that description - but it is all part of getting closer to the truth.

[MrScorpio]

12. It's just that we find odd and interesting ways to do it

I finding myself doing it on autopilot sometimes


I have to watch myself

[alarimer]

38. I do that all the time.

It's some kind of social blindness I guess.

BUT I am also sometimes contrary just to be contrary, which also pisses people off (as it probably should LOL).

[MrScorpio]

42. There's a reason why you're contrary

It's because you want to take down facades in order to get at the truth of a matter.

As long as you're getting the answers that you're seeking you should keep up the good work.

Even if they don't "get" what you're doing, you know, that by what you do, gets you where you want to go.

[TK421]

8. Some of those things fit me, others don't....and I suspect much of this is guesswork

no offense to your OP, MrScorpio

[MrScorpio]

9. None taken

I do find a lot of my self in that description, however.

I just find it fascinating.

[TK421]

10. I never look for conflict, but somehow conflict always seem to find me

None of that was in the description, but I'm generally shy, especially around people that I've never met...same could be said for most of us, though. Some of it is pretty interesting, though

[MrScorpio]

13. That's why know need people who understand you to back you up

They are a precious resource

[TK421]

14. You are right as always, my friend! :)

[deutsey]

15. INFP here

Too withdrawn to piss people off...

[MrScorpio]

18. But I bet that you're great for conversation anyway

I'm sure that you have a lot on your mind. All you need is someone to share it with.

[deutsey]

33. You got it...just a very select few gain entrance. :-) n/t

[Crystal Clarity]

29. Me too... INFP

Gee... a whole lot of introverts here... who'd have guessed? :shrug: lol!

[MrScorpio]

30. Introversion actually loves company

The right kind of company, of course

[Crystal Clarity]

31. Well, I hope I fit in that category. :-) nt.

[MrScorpio]

32. Of course, you do! nt

[Curmudgeoness]

16. ISFJ here. What about me???

I am ALWAYS pissing people off unintentionally. I am just too frank. Do not ask me how you look in that outfit unless you look great. Or have me read your great short story.

[MrScorpio]

17. Ask me if I think that "that" makes your ass look big... Ask me, I dare ya

C'mon!

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Does this make my ass look big?

:shrug:

[MrScorpio]

20. No, Sweetheart...

You don't need any help in that department at all.


:loveya:

[Curmudgeoness]

21. Ahh, you are a gentleman, and a smart one at that.

And a great liar. But...when is it that you are supposed to piss me off?

[MrScorpio]

22. No plan on pissing you off at all

Just glad that you dropped by

[pokerfan]

23. INTJ here

INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake ... INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play ... Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel ... This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals ... Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTJ

[MrScorpio]

24. I like the cut of your jib nt

[Odin2005]

40. The description of INFJs:

INFJs are conscientious and value-driven. They seek meaning in relationships, ideas, and events, with an eye toward better understanding themselves and others. Using their intuitive skills, they develop a clear vision, which they then execute decisively to better the lives of others. Like their INTJ counterparts, INFJs regard problems as opportunities to design and implement creative solutions.<14>

INFJs are quiet, private individuals who prefer to exercise their influence behind the scenes. Although very independent, INFJs are intensely interested in the well-being of others. INFJs prefer one-on-one relationships to large groups. Sensitive and complex, they are adept at understanding complicated issues and driven to resolve differences in a cooperative and creative manner.<3>

INFJs have a rich, vivid inner life, which they may be reluctant to share with those around them. Nevertheless, they are congenial in their interactions, and perceptive of the emotions of others. Generally well-liked by their peers, they may often be considered close friends and confidants by most other types. However, they are guarded in expressing their own feelings, especially to new people, and so tend to establish close relationships slowly. INFJs tend to be easily hurt, though they may not reveal this except to their closest companions. INFJs may "silently withdraw as a way of setting limits", rather than expressing their wounded feelings—a behavior that may leave others confused and upset.<15>

INFJs tend to be sensitive, quiet leaders with a great depth of personality. They are intricately and deeply woven, mysterious, and highly complex, sometimes puzzling even to themselves. They have an orderly view toward the world, but are internally arranged in a complex way that only they can understand. Abstract in communicating, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities. With a natural affinity for art, INFJs tend to be creative and easily inspired.<16> Yet they may also do well in the sciences, aided by their intuition.<17>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INFJ

INFJs are distinguished by both their complexity of character and the unusual range and depth of their talents. Strongly humanitarian in outlook, INFJs tend to be idealists, and because of their J preference for closure and completion, they are generally "doers" as well as dreamers. This rare combination of vision and practicality often results in INFJs taking a disproportionate amount of responsibility in the various causes to which so many of them seem to be drawn.

INFJs are deeply concerned about their relations with individuals as well as the state of humanity at large. They are, in fact, sometimes mistaken for extroverts because they appear so outgoing and are so genuinely interested in people -- a product of the Feeling function they most readily show to the world. On the contrary, INFJs are true introverts, who can only be emotionally intimate and fulfilled with a chosen few from among their long-term friends, family, or obvious "soul mates." While instinctively courting the personal and organizational demands continually made upon them by others, at intervals INFJs will suddenly withdraw into themselves, sometimes shutting out even their intimates. This apparent paradox is a necessary escape valve for them, providing both time to rebuild their depleted resources and a filter to prevent the emotional overload to which they are so susceptible as inherent "givers." As a pattern of behavior, it is perhaps the most confusing aspect of the enigmatic INFJ character to outsiders, and hence the most often misunderstood -- particularly by those who have little experience with this rare type.

Due in part to the unique perspective produced by this alternation between detachment and involvement in the lives of the people around them, INFJs may well have the clearest insights of all the types into the motivations of others, for good and for evil. The most important contributing factor to this uncanny gift, however, are the empathic abilities often found in Fs, which seem to be especially heightened in the INFJ type (possibly by the dominance of the introverted N function).

This empathy can serve as a classic example of the two-edged nature of certain INFJ talents, as it can be strong enough to cause discomfort or pain in negative or stressful situations. More explicit inner conflicts are also not uncommon in INFJs; it is possible to speculate that the causes for some of these may lie in the specific combinations of preferences which define this complex type. For instance, there can sometimes be a "tug-of-war" between NF vision and idealism and the J practicality that urges compromise for the sake of achieving the highest priority goals. And the I and J combination, while perhaps enhancing self-awareness, may make it difficult for INFJs to articulate their deepest and most convoluted feelings.

Usually self-expression comes more easily to INFJs on paper, as they tend to have strong writing skills. Since in addition they often possess a strong personal charisma, INFJs are generally well-suited to the "inspirational" professions such as teaching (especially in higher education) and religious leadership. Psychology and counseling are other obvious choices, but overall, INFJs can be exceptionally difficult to pigeonhole by their career paths. Perhaps the best example of this occurs in the technical fields. Many INFJs perceive themselves at a disadvantage when dealing with the mystique and formality of "hard logic", and in academic terms this may cause a tendency to gravitate towards the liberal arts rather than the sciences. However, the significant minority of INFJs who do pursue studies and careers in the latter areas tend to be as successful as their T counterparts, as it is *iNtuition* -- the dominant function for the INFJ type -- which governs the ability to understand abstract theory and implement it creatively.

In their own way, INFJs are just as much "systems builders" as are INTJs; the difference lies in that most INFJ "systems" are founded on human beings and human values, rather than information and technology. Their systems may for these reasons be conceptually "blurrier" than analogous NT ones, harder to measure in strict numerical terms, and easier to take for granted -- yet it is these same underlying reasons which make the resulting contributions to society so vital and profound.

http://typelogic.com/infj.html

[BulletproofLandshark]

25. Right here.

And yeah, I do that to people on occasion. But it's followed by an apology in most cases.

[MrScorpio]

27. Exactly.

At least we recognize people's reaction when it happens



(But secretly, we're not surprised by it, are we?)

[NJCher]

26. Hey, over here, me!

:hi:

I am a 50/50:

INTJ/INTP
ENTJ/ENTP

That means I'm half introverted, have extraverted. Half the time I operate in a loose, free-form way, the other half, I plan extensively.

FWIW, I think I tend not to make people angry. I try to plan how to say things so people don't get that way.


Cher

[MrScorpio]

28. I don't think that any of us really want to get people mad

It just happens that way sometimes


It's just one reaction out of several because of what we say and do

[rrneck]

34. You know that little hour glass

that shows up when your computer is working on something? That's my brain when I'm dealing with people. It takes a lot of system resources to swim in the soup of humanity.

[Curmudgeoness]

35. You know that little hour glass...

I have already blurted something out before you see that stupid hour glass. Brain doesn't engage before mouth does.

[Odin2005]

36. I'm an INFJ and I piss people off unintentionally.

:yoiks:

[MrScorpio]

37. I know what you mean, bro

I know what you mean

[CBR]

51. I am INFJ as well! nt

[lightningandsnow]

39. I fluctuate between INTP and ENTP.

I think I'm kind of both, if that's at all possible. And, yes, I'm not terribly good at social norms.

[MrScorpio]

41. It's because we're such a small part of the population

But with among folks like you, me and the rest of us here, I'm sure that you'll be just fine.

The rest takes practice.

[murielm99]

43. I am an INTJ, and I piss people off unintentionally.

People have told me all my life that I am weird. I have always ignored that because I have heard it so often. I guess I should have listened.

Right now, I am spending most of my time alone. I am trying to reassess. Later, I may go back to being around people again.

[MrScorpio]

44. I figure that it's THEIR problem, not yours

It's their fault that they didn't take the time to understand you. Their loss.

When you're ready to make your move, more power to you.

[murielm99]

46. Thank you.

That is a very nice thing to say.

[MrScorpio]

48. I'm absolutely positive that it's the truth

I know where you've been

[MoralSyncretism]

50. But maybe not

But what about when we're angry (at you) because YOU haven't taken the time to understand us - and you say things, blunt or hurful, that piss us off?

Some of the INTPs/INTJs I know piss me off sometimes with arrogant attitudes like -- as you say "It's THEIR problem" -- when it's THEY who haven't taken the time to understand other people and their individual perspectives (or allow people to have their difference). They force their perspective (as it if's one-size-fits-all, or "it's my way or the highway") on others.

[MrScorpio]

52. I'm not so sure about that

And it's only because you're describing our attitude as "arrogant", when to us, our attitude is anything but:

Now looking specifically at first the Ti, the principle of detachment even encompasses how an INTP views himself. He may analyse his own thought processes as if his mind and body were separate from his conscious self. In wanting to understand his reactions to things, he may treat himself, even his own thoughts, as subjects for experiment. At the extreme end of the scale, where Ti is very dominant, the ultimate goal of understanding the world with total clarity must be achieved through total detachment from everything. Fortunately, Ti never dominates over the other 3 preferences to such an extent that such an unhealthy state is reached.

Where detachment ceases is when someone makes an illogical statement or violates one of the INTPs principles. At such a point, the INTP feels the instant drive to provide for clarity. This is his Mission; to be the provider of clarity, and is often suspicious that he is the only person capable of this task. Here, the INTP risks being seen as over-critical, aloof and arrogant. On the whole, however, real arrogance is rare for INTPs for their desire is not to dominate others but simply to observe, analyse and clarify. Once the point has been clarified, the INTP withdraws quickly, for he prefers not to be in the limelight unless absolutely necessary. Hence, for most of the time, INTPs are easy-going and will fit in to others' needs, taking up the role of observer again.

By ascribing a problem to someone that we have determined as that problem's owner, we try to remain objective while observing them in our effort to see the big picture.

From my perspective, the anger and hostility comes from our apparent refusal to validate the angry person's own feelings or beliefs, because we're detached in that effort to remain objective. We're not very good pity party people.

As far as that person's own feelings and beliefs, as long as they're not being pushed onto us, I'm quite content in letting that person own their own. That's where the "It's THEIR problem" comes from. A defense constructed to keep our own emotions and principles intact and yet ascribe someone else's theirs.

As far as where the bluntness comes from, we really hate beating around the bush if it obscures clarity of meaning. So, we have no qualms about being direct. The reason for that is because it's our quest to seek the truth and the meaning of things and it wouldn't help achieving that goal by being anything less than truthful with ourselves and with others.

Most people aren't used to the way that we express ourselves, because in my opinion, they're quite content in accepting and promoting whatever bullshit that makes their lives easier to contend with.

We don't want their bullshit pushed on us, and we're loathed to bullshit them because it defeats the purpose of what we yearn to do...

Seek truth.

[SwampG8r]

47. wow

i never heard of this before
i read the whole thing quickly
it creeped me out
i am being watched
that is me almost exactly
i need to read it in depth but
am i gonna go ed gein or something?

[MrScorpio]

49. Take this test and share the results with us

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

http://sminds.com/mbti/

http://www.keirsey.com/sorter/instruments2.aspx?partid=0