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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:15 AM
Original message
Ode to the Nice Guys
I wish for nothing but "the nice guys" to be placed on the path of my daughters sojourn in Syracuse.

http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have my vindication right here:


My wife divorced her first husband, a thuggish, abusive jerk, and started dating me. She knew I would never hurt her in any way. So she married me. And it's been 11 spectacularly happy years, so far...

Nice guys CAN finish first! B-)

Thanks for a great OP! :thumbsup:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah!!! kudos...thank you for being a "Nice Guy"
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. inspiration in a pic n/t
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. George Sodini thought he was a nice guy, too. Check out some of his writings.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/pennsylvania.gym.shooting/index.html

I hate reading shit like this OP. What drivel. If Mr. Nice Guy is unable to get a woman, he can be assured that there is a VERY good reason for it, no matter how high his opinion of himself may be. :eyes:
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Nice strawman rebuttal.
Yes, because every guy who is there for his female friends, might be a little shy, doesn't outwardly or obviously treat women badly and doesn't get a lot of dates is either defective or secretly George Sodini.

:eyes:
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Clearly, you didn't read the OP at all.
Therefore, I won't bother responding further to you.
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Actually I did read the OP.
I just find your rebuttal to be equally vile, though much more concise.

(I've also read it the last 10 times someone has posted to the Lounge. It never fails to bring out misandrists saying goofy shit like "shy men are defective or prospective murderers.")
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Typical
God forbid a guy weigh a few pounds more than he should, or have goofy hair, or not have a Biff Hardpecs body with a dimpled chin. God forbid we not have the money to be stylish or fashionable.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sigh. Yet another one who didn't read the OP.
That's it for you, too.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Oh, I read it
Patronizing and about 20 years too late.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Yuck! How incredibly disgusting.
I'm one of those nice guys who was unable to get a woman in High School. And in a number of reunions, so many girls who I had complete and utter crushes on told me how nice they thought I was. Being introverted is not the same as being a sociopath. Your comment is putrid.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Girls are all illogical, manipulative bitches? What?
:eyes:

Why is it that all "nice guy" threads are always just rants against women?
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. yeah, that part was Really Nice...
really, he's a Nice Guy ;)
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. hmmmm....
:popcorn:


Not like we haven't seen this conversation before, but it always makes for some fun stuff.
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. kicked
Part of the key is to be a nice guy without being boring.

However, the draw of some young women to irresponsible guys who are clearly very bad for them is something I will never understand.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. People have to make mistakes sometimes before they learn from them.
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 12:44 PM by chrisa
Being attracted to destructive personalities isn't just a female phenomenom either, like the stereotype says.

Part of these nice guys' problems is that they're also shy because they have low self-esteem. Others are narcissists who honestly believe that women should bow before them because they're the most awesome guy ever. I really think these "nice guys" couldn't give less of a shit about women. Then, they wonder why women could care less about them.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. "And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should."
"the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches."

:wow: Just :wow:
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. lol @ the concept of "deserving to get laid," and that whole paragraph.
Good god.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Sorry, but some females are just as shallow as their male counterparts
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Sure they are
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 02:38 PM by lukasahero
But nice guys don't call women bitches nor do they believe getting laid by the female of their choosing is an inherent right.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'd consider myself a nice guy, and I'm not sure I want this guy speaking on my behalf.
:)
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I was kinda thinking the same thing.
I hate the occasional posting of crap like this, because "nice guys" are rarely nice, they're often manipulative enfants terribles. Yet, the posting of this crap brings out misandry in the form of hyperbolic statements like all shy, respectful and unaggressive men are secretly bad people or defective or have low self-esteem. There seems to be confusion between being "nice" and a good but shy guy.

I just haven't met a woman that appreciates me and is a great match. I might suck at saying "I like you" but I'm fun, charming and if they can get past the fact I'm chubby, balding and snarky, I'm pretty great at being a boyfriend. That's not narcissism, I've worked at it. I used to be "nice".
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. i often come on the nice guy thread and actually argue for the nice guy
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 02:40 PM by seabeyond
then often, i have men tell me how wrong i am. that most women dont like nice guys. then the women that married nice guys start lining up, lol lol

i didnt get what some women were talking about with the nice guy issue at first. all i hung with were guys, and only nice guys. why should i want to be around someone that didnt respect me or even like me. makes no sense.

but then i realized what 'nice" guy they were talking and what the issue is. you know, the nice guys that say women are manipulative bitches, lol

i shifted my language to good guys, too. some shy, some arent. but they are good guys.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah, whatever.
You had your fun, we got jobbed, and Slate Slabrock got the girl.
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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm just glad that I'm a complete asshole
:)
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Despite my rantings on here, I've been accused of being too nice and let
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 02:14 PM by TK421
me tell you, it really seems women don't like "nice" guys
And this is coming from someone who always seems to get shit from the so-called macho asses in public places..mostly bars where I also mind my own business

you want an asshole, then you deserve one and all the best to you

I still open doors for ladies when I'm out in public, BTW, but that is because I was raised to believe you just do that because it is the gentlemanly thing to do....not very popular these days, apparently
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. my boys would wait hours for someone to get to the door, holding it open.
lol. had to explain that they only hold the door when the person is only so close. and it is not only females they hold it for. on occassion kids have jumped out of car and ran to door, when seeing an older person slowly walking to door.

i often see people hold door

i do it myself.

i think it is a lovely thing for all of us to do. and thank you's are nice to be said too. just as important as the held open door.

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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. thank you seabeyond :)
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. Why would you want your daughter to have nothing but misogynists in her path?
:wtf:
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. I was a "Nice Guy"
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 02:59 PM by Burma Jones
And I get the rant. I have to say, it could get really frustrating. But being Kind, Honest and Respectful is its own reward.

Eventually I married a "Nice Gal"..........someone who really understands the power of Kindness........I was her "friend" for over a year.

We've been married 15 years now. Three Kids.

If you wait until you're say, about 30, Nice Guys do very well for themselves.




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dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. "Girls" are attracted to bad "boys".
"Women" are attracted to nice "men". Some girls and some boys never grow up, but who wants to deal with that?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. +1... you are so right on. geez
fannin self

you are so smart.

:hugs:
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Here's My Theory About That
Some women don't want to be in a relationship at all, but they get so much pressure from family and peers to be in one that they choose men whom they think will be "exciting", and bad boys are "exciting".

Ultimately, they choose men for whom they know won't be in it for the long haul.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. As a sometimes "Nice Guy" I can sympathize
but I think that many people hide behind this concept. I have several female friends who I would probably date, but to whom I'm a "Nice Guy" friend. That doesn't mean that there aren't girls I ask out, and who respond to me just fine. One of my female friends I've known for at least 10 years; I'm definitely attracted to her, but even if she WAS interested, it would just be too goddamn weird. I'm just fine with being a Nice Guy there, because I enjoy the friendship.


The problem is that some Nice Guys expect there to be a romantic outcome as long as they're nice. But that's not how it works. How often does the Nice Guy actually ask the girl out on a date? Telling her, "I know we're good friends, but I'd really like to be something more. What do you think about going on a date?" or something to that effect? Not often, from what I've seen. Nice Guys just try to use Like Rays to make the girl spontaneously decide to date them.

Nice Guys don't automatically finish last. Nice Guys with no self confidence or social ability finish last. Too often, when Nice Guys think they're being nice, they're actually being goddamned creepy. For evidence, watch this humorous yet disturbingly true short... http://www.smbc-theater.com/?id=221


That aside, I do get sick of hearing that I'm a "Nice Guy" from girls... I was interested in one acquaintance, and mentioned this to mutual friend. He did what I DIDN'T want him to do at all, which was ask her if she was interested :eyes:. In any case, she said she wasn't interested but really "liked my personality." Regardless of her ACTUAL intent and wording, my brain processes that as "I would date you, but you're too fat." It may be illogical, but that's what floats around in my head.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. A truly nice guy
is kind and pleasant to women even when he doesn't lust after them

is kind and pleasant to men, children, the elderly, animals, and other creatures he would never dream of fucking

learns to read the difference between "come hither" signals and "go away pest" signals

asks a platonic female friend for advice if he's unlucky in love

------

Our local paper ran an article about "nice guys" a few years ago, and one vignette made me laugh. It was about a real "Norwegian bachelor farmer" who farmed the land that his mother still lived on, but he liked the symphony, opera, art galleries, and fine dining. He had plenty of female friends but for some reason they all treated him as just a friend. And I thought, "Unmarried at 50, lives with his mother, likes the symphony, opera, art galleries and fine dining...They probably think he's gay!"

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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. Here's The Bottom Line Advice for Nice Guys
Date women that appreciate nice guys. Simple. No?

Don't waste your time with women who don't want to return your affections. Be honest with your intentions and be prepared to walk away if she doesn't feel the same way.

It's all about having some self esteem. You are worthy of having a full relationship with someone, so be with those women who want a full relationship with you and stop puppy-dogging around someone who is using your feelings for them to stroke their own ego.
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