Ethical problem: Should he give up his seat to the woman and her dog?

[BurtWorm]

A man in his early 50s who commutes on a bus that goes to the airport everyday because his office is between the city and the airport, is sitting in a prime spot near the rear door of a bus that is getting more and more crowded with each stop--crowded in roughly equal numbers with people going to work and with people, many with big suitcases in tow, going to the airport.

At one particularly populated stop, as people who have queued there are entering one by one, a woman (who also seems to be in her early 50s) with a lapdog on a leash and several bags on her arms, enters the bus through the back door, circumventing the line. She proceeds to ask the people sitting across from the man something he can't hear, and they seem to answer negatively. She then turns to the man, who takes his earphones out to hear what she has to ask.

"Can you please move so I can sit there?" she asks. She points to the back of the bus through a thicket of suitcases at a seat between two large people whose elbows protrude into the space over the empty seat. "There's a free seat in the back," she says.

If you were the man, how would you respond?

[Book Lover]

1. Um, that doesn't make physical sense

Your header asks if he should get up out of the seat he is sitting in in order that the woman can sit in it. Your post describes something I don't understand - he should get up (and move into the aisle? wouldn't that put him in her way?) in order for her to reach an empty seat?

[BurtWorm]

5. No, let me explain the space better...

This is a low-floor bus. The back door is about 2/3 of the way to the rear of the vehicle. Immediately behind it, there's an elevated level, and that's where the man is sitting. The woman with the dog is standing at the bottom of the steps up to the elevated level. She's indicating a seat all the way in the back of the bus for the man to move to.

[Book Lover]

31. Dude, diagram and everything!

This actually makes this really clear; thank you! In this case, no way. Set aside the fact that the woman cut in line for a moment. There are empty seats to be had that require only the movement of objects and elbows, not human behinds; those are the ones she must choose first before asking someone to stand so that she could sit.

[nolabear]

2. I know what my husband would do.

He'd cheerfully give her the seat, pat the dog, go back and enjoy having a conversation with the two people he had to squeeze between, and enjoy the ride. It's why I married him. He's a good, generous man who likes people and likes life.

What would I do? I'd probably do the same but might feel a little more righteous for my kindness than he would. What the heck; it might count toward healing the world.

[BurtWorm]

9. This is why this is an ethical question.

Because there is a tension between being kind and doing what's right, in my opinion. After all, this woman has essentially gone to the head of the line by entering through the rear door. She's also violating the bus company's rules that animals that are not service animals must be in containers. Should she be rewarded for being bad herself? Or is she being "bad" because she has a legitimate reason? The man doesn't know. Should he ask the questions? Or should he just say it's easier to let the woman have the seat?

[Bunny]

3. Why couldn't she sit in the seat she pointed to?

Why would she want the man to move so she could have his seat? :shrug:

[BurtWorm]

6. She would probably say it's too difficult for her to move through the suitcases

with her bags and the dog.

But it's an excellent question.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. The seat was beyond people with luggage and it would be easier for him to move there

since he wasn't carrying bags and toting a dog? That would be my guess.

Of course, he's under no obligation to move and unless she was very polite about the request he'd have little incentive to do so.

[BurtWorm]

11. You are right on all counts.

[Gormy Cuss]

17. Oh! I didn't answer your question. If I were the man in question, I'd get up

just to get away from her and her dog. In my many years of mass transit riding I've learned that it's best to be as far away as possible from people who think the rules don't apply to them.

[Lance_Boyle]

4. I'd ignore her.

"Women and children first" was bullshit in its day and it's super-bullshit now.

[BurtWorm]

14. I'll tell you what the man actually did.

He looked at the woman disbelievingly and said, honestly, "I'd rather not."

She looked hurt and surprised, so he instantly felt bad. But the more he thought about it, the more he felt that his instinct was right. Or that it just didn't matter one way or the other what he did, as his choice was between being honest and letting the woman fend for herself just as everyone else on the bus was doing, or being kind and probably feeling like a sucker for his trouble.

[Crystal Clarity]

30. I don't see this situation as being the same

as your typical "women and children first" scenario (which btw is rarely used these days) and was never obligatory to begin with.

The woman in this case was rudely asking a favor of someone she did not know, and implying obligation through her demeanor and actions (ie pointing out the other seat and acting hurt when the man did not give it up).

Personally, I see nothing wrong w/the man's reaction to the request irregardless of her behavior before or after her interaction w/him. The man is under no obligation to give his seat up to anyone. And the fact that the woman feels entitled (in more ways than one apparently) is her problem.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. I would have moved if she had asked me. I am assuming that I am

free of encumbrances (unlike her) except for my purse. I would easily be able to move whereas it would be hard and disruptive for her to do so.

:shrug:

[BurtWorm]

10. I have to point out again, that she has entered the bus improperly.

She hasn't paid her way. We don't know if she will pay her way, but she's jumped the line.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. I still would have moved, I think.

one of those instant decisions.

[Bunny]

12. So, tell us Burt: what did you do?

I'm betting you moved for her, although you would have had every right to tell her no. :hi:

[BurtWorm]

16. Er... what makes you think it's me?

:blush:

Actually, I told her "I'd rather not." I felt bad, but I would have felt just as bad if I'd have moved. She wound up getting a seat toward the front of the bus anyway after one stop.

[Bunny]

18. To be honest, that's exactly what I would have done.

Don't mind helping someone in distress, but it sounds like she was just full of entitlement and I tend to think 'piss off' when I see those types.

[BurtWorm]

21. Thank you!

It's the kind of thing I usually obsess about guiltily, but, this happened yesterday and I'd forgotten about it till now.

[charlie and algernon]

13. Is someone sitting next to the man?

From the picture, it looks like there is a seat next to the man.

If I was there and the seat next to me is empty, I just make sure that seat is clear so she can sit next to me. Other than that, I probably don't move if I know there are other empty seats she could sit in.

I don't ride buses, but I've ridden the metro subway in DC a bunch and I've never seen a new passenger ask an already seated passenger to move if there are other open seats. If all the seats are full, *occasionally* people will move to let a woman or child sit down. But if there are other open seats, I haven't seen ANYONE get up out of their seat, let alone be ASKED to move.

Now, if it were a handicapped seat and she were handicapped or elderly, then absolutely I would move.

[BurtWorm]

20. The seats in the back are actually all in a line against the windows

in this model of the bus. There is someone next to the man, but he's on the man's right going toward the back. He could have moved, but it would be just as much of a hassle for him as for anybody.

I have given my seat up without being asked for pregnant women (when I'm reasonably sure they're pregnant and aren't just large and apt to be offended) and people with canes, children in their arms, or lots of gray hairs and "character" in their faces. This woman is healthy enough, just not very organized.

[MiddleFingerMom]

15. I'm an old guy (relatively) with bad, sore feet and knees...

.
.
.
.
.
...and I have gotten out of my bus seat more than once to
give it up to a woman of that age (or even much older) while
the teens and twenty-somethings aggressively "failed to notice"
her (worst was a young woman carrying a baby in one of those
big carriers -- one young guy sitting at the time who looked
everywhere BUT at her... when I got up, I stood right in front
of him and glared at him nonstop (yes, Kali -- it was "The Look").
He met my eyes once for an instant and then obviously, nervously
looked everywhere but at ME.:evilgrin:
.
.
.
"Women and children first" was NOT bullshit in its day... and it's
STILL not bullshit in THIS day.
.
.
.
.
.
Call me Mr. Ogyny.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I probably would have remained standing rather than run the
suitcase gauntlet, only to sit between two "overlappers" with
sharp elbows.
.
.
.

[BurtWorm]

23. I have also given up my seat plenty of times when no one else makes a move.

It's why I sort of surprised myself (all right, the "man" is me ;-) ) when I basically told her in a polite way to get fucked. I asked myself afterward, under what circumstance would I have given her the seat. I hoped to high heaven I'd have done the same if she had been a sexier woman.

[nolabear]

29. You're a good guy. I'd give you my seat, too.

[Lucian]

22. Why don't she move her ass to the empty seat?

That's what I would've said to her.

I can manage doing things with an armful of bags. And if she needed help, she shouldn't have brought her damn dog with her.

[BurtWorm]

25. .

:applause:

[xchrom]

24. means more to her than it does to me -- i'd move. nt

[BurtWorm]

26. Then man considered that after his gut reaction told him to refuse

thus ending the problem. He rides the bus everyday. So today he has to give up his choice seat by the exit. He'll have plenty of chances to sit there again. But his gut had already decided the issue in his own favor.

[Iggo]

27. She jumps the line? She stands.

[BurtWorm]

28. .

:applause:

[Jokerman]

32. The deciding factor for me would be "circumventing the line".

As a regular user of public transportation I've offered my seat to others on several occasions but I have no sympathy for people who think that they are above the rules.

How did she pay for the ride if she entered through the back door?

[joeybee12]

33. My Response: "If you had gotten in line and waited your turn like everyone else,

I would have been more than happy to. As it is, I will not, because I cannot reward rude behavior."

[LaurenG]

34. No mam and then put my earphones back in.

She can go to the seat less desirable or she can stand. Rudeness (circumventing the queue)and entitlement don't work for me.

edit: rudness has an e

[Kali]

35. "um, you cut in line and now you want me to move?"

don't think so

(unless as mentioned there was some REAL reason she needed special accommodation)

[bluedigger]

36. I would under these circumstances.

I would feel bad for the dog.

[Old Troop]

37. I'd probably give up my seat.

[krispos42]

38. I would offer to watch her suitcases while she takes the back seat.

"Leave'em here. I'm on until xxth street and I'll keep them together and upright."