I need advice...and as usual, I turn to the DU

[Hepburn]

My best gal pal, Rhonda, and I have a mutual friend, Ann, who is totally head over heels about a man, Stu, she met on the internet. Rho and I talked to Ann and she knows next to nothing about Stu. Rho and I came across some information about Stu, which we confirmed, that makes him out to be a rat bastard and a mega liar. Bad stuff ~~ like horrific tax liens, lives with a woman, does not work where he says he does, using a phony name with our pal, says he is out of town on business and he is home, etc.

While Rho and I have been pals for a long time, Ann is a relatively new friend ~~ but we both consider her a close friend to both of us and we love her dearly. She is a wonderful, kind, bright person.

What would you do in this situation? We think from what we have learned, that Stu is a con artist and bad news. Do we tell Ann what we know or STFU. BTW: Rho and I have tried bringing up the subject of people meeting people on the internet and what one should do about checking people out, etc., how people get burned, etc., and all Ann does is talk goo-goo over Stu.

All suggestions, ideas, help ~~ greatly appreciated.

Edit to fix typo

[Iggo]

1. Something like this:

"I could be a coward and let you find this out for yourself, or I can be a friend and let you know right now. I've decided to be your friend. Here's what I know about this 'Stu' fellow..."

[Hepburn]

3. Excellent intro...

...Rho and I were up all hours on the phone last evening trying to figure out how to make the opening approach to her. We pretty much decided we have to tell her ~~ obviously. Your opening to the subject says exactly how we feel about this. We do not want to hurt her, lose her as a friend, but we feel we have to tell her and we would not be friends if we did not let her know. Gawd, this is so hard. She just glows when she talks about this rat bastard.

Thank you.

[Phentex]

2. Of course you should tell her!

Just don't be shocked by what she does or does not do with the information.

I think you can approach her in a way that lets her know you are worried without sounding like you are trying to hurt her.

[Hepburn]

5. Hopefully her excellent brain will come to the surface...

...and she will protect herself.

I just posted the highlights about this asshole ~~ everything he has told her, except for the city where he lives, is totally false.

[PassingFair]

4. Tell her.

One of my friends was head over heels about a guy.
She knew that something was fishy about him.
She had met him at a bar... all she knew about him,
really, was his name and where he worked.

From that, she looked up his address.

It happened to be close to my home.

I offered to drive by and see what the situation
looked like, as he had indicated to her that he
didn't live alone and there were a lot of people
living in his house.

I KNEW this guy was married from his obvious fudging
about his home-life, but she was sure he was in a
renting situation.

I drove by and actually SAW a woman, likely his wife
and two children, rather obviously HIS from the picture
of him she had shown me, on the front lawn!

I texted her that I drove by and eyeballed the wife and
kids, and she still did not believe me...thought they
must be his brother's kids or something.

He eventually confessed that he was married and had two
kids...AFTER she had done the nasty with him, of course.

[Hepburn]

7. Yep...

...but these are older people. No young kids, but he is living in a house he says he owns...and it is owned by the lady he lives with.

[Arkansas Granny]

6. You have to tell her, and I would also let her know where you got the info so

she can check it out for herself. Make sure she realizes that you are doing this because you care about her.

[Hepburn]

9. Someone I know in law enforcement ran his license plate for me...

...because he was driving by my house and checking me out.

How this started:

Ann calls me one day and tells me that Stu was sitting on her front porch and tells her he thinks he saw me drive by ... and he asks her what kind of car I drive. (We all live in a seniors development and Stu knows that she and I are pals live in the same development.) I thought the question odd because if I had driven by ~~ which I had not ~~ he would not have to have asked what kind of car I drove. I know the SUV that he drives because I had seen it parked at Ann's house. Soon after that, I saw this same SUV drive by my house and the man driving fit the description of Stu. He did this more than once and on different days. I am very aware of stalkers and odd things because of having been involved as a lawyer in some ugly legal cases in the past. So...I wrote down the plate and when it happened again, I went by Ann's and verified that it was Stu who was driving by and I then had him traced. My house is nowhere on the way from Ann's to the exit. I live in a secluded area on the other side of the development from her. Prior to that, some odd things made both Rho and I wonder about Stu ~~ typical signs that a guy is married or living with someone, playing around, etc. But the trying to find me, made me wonder what was up.

From there, OMG, what the facts were about this asshole ~~ disgusting.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Something sounds really fishy with this guy. Maybe he makes a habit of

this sort of thing.

[Hepburn]

12. From what we are seeing, this is a real possibility

He has a couple of phony companies and advertises himself as the VP of these supposed corporations. None of them check out with the Cal Sec of State, but there is one that is a NV corp...and guess what: The woman he is currently living with is the Pres, VP, Sec of the corp and he is the treasurer and the operation is run out of her home address where he lives.

He tells our pal that he spends the weekends out of town taking care of his very elderly mother: His mother is deceased. It just goes on forever with this jerk.

The phone number for one of the companies he supposedly works for and owns? It traces to a converted garage in a very bad area of town ~~ Long Beach, CA, area. The other company he supposedly works for? He cannot be found there. And...a third company? It does not exist. This is on top of the NV corp that is located at his lady friend's home where he lives.

And...he brags about how he takes care of his ex wife who has cancer and pays all her bills? I got into his disso file ~~ contempt citation after contempt citation for wilful failure to pay spousal support.

Says he owns two home? Does not own one...and has a $250K personal income tax lien with the State of California. And the cell number he gave our friend? It traces to another person. His damn cell phone is not even in his name!

[KamaAina]

26. Is this guy a repuke, by any chance?

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

32. I have no clue...but I am betting that he is. n/t

[KamaAina]

36. Certainly sounds like it.

:eyes:

[lizziegrace]

8. You've gotten excellent advice

she may be grateful or angry, but either way, you've been a friend. She may choose to ignore the advice and facts, but that's out of your hands.

[Hepburn]

10. Ask the DU and get excellent advice.

I have been on here since 2004 and my DU pals have never failed me.

I pretty much knew we had to tell her...I just was not sure on how to go about it. It kills us to have to hurt her.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

59. you're not hurting her...

You're doing her a great kindness! I can think of a few times that I wish my friends had been brave instead of cowardly.



Hope you don't mind my chiming in, since I don't come by the lounge much.....but I just had to add my two cents.


She WILL thank you, sooner or later!

[raccoon]

13. How'd you find out about his tax liens? nt

[Hepburn]

18. I ran his name on Google...

...and in a list on the worst tax "scofflaws" in the State of Calif, there was his name and address.

[seabeyond]

14. i would be so MAD if my friends denied me info. if they lied thru ommission.

it would be a deal breaker.

there are also people that dont want to know.

i dont get that

there are people that think they should mind own business. i see it as cowardly. you have the info that may short term cause pain, but long run save on pain. chicken to not share with friend.

[Hepburn]

22. Yep...

...and this is going to be very hard to do. Rho and I were on the phone and crying with each other over having to tell her what we know. I really, really do not want to do this. But...there really is not much choice if we want to make sure she is safe.

[seabeyond]

23. of course you dont want to do it. and yes, it is hard

that is integrity. not taking the easy road.....

you are a good friend, whether your friend will appreciate it or not....

and on edit: the line from the first post you are talking about? right on.

[Hepburn]

24. Yep, the response on the first post...

...those where the words that Rho and I were searching for to start this conversation.

The three of us are tentatively planning a lunch tomorrow. We get together usually every Friday. So, we are doing an outing and then we are going to tell her what we have to tell her.

Yeah, it's hard being a good friend. I know I would want to know if someone could harm me in some way.

Maybe he is just a flake who is looking for a booty call...but the vibrations are all bad about this guy. If our pal Ann is just into a sexual thing with him, we would not be worried. But...she is sooooo twitterpated over this guy, it is like HS all over again.

[Bunny]

15. I'm normally a big fan of minding one's own business in these types of situations.

But after reading this whole thread, I'd say you should definitely tell your friend. Be prepared for a really negative reaction, though. It sounds like she thinks Her Prince Has Finally Come, and having that bubble burst will be hard to accept.

[seabeyond]

16. Be prepared for a really negative reaction, though

that is always the possibility.

but

one can look themselves in the mirror.

agree

[Hepburn]

21. Yes, we anticipate a totally negative reaction...

...and probably anger at us. The first reply on this thread...I printed those words and discussed it with Rho and we are going to start the conversation with those words.

[Hepburn]

20. Yep, that is what my pal Rho and I have discussed...

...and same conclusion: We would rather have her safe and mad, then fleeced and depressed.

[Chan790]

29. Just a heads-up...

my mom went through this with her best friend of 20 years and when she told her that the guy was a creep, she stopped talking to mom, moved to FL with the guy and got robbed blind. The precipitating incident of the whole "third act" of the fuck-over was my mom confronting her friend with proof the bf was a cretin, because the bf had already started to plant seeds that mom was going to try to split friend from bf. That was planned for...if Stu's as good as you imply, you and Rho are walking right into his plan to chisel Ann from her support network before chiseling Ann from her money.

Your best approach might be to not say anything to your friend and let Stu know that you and every bit of info you can give the local cops is onto him. Grifters don't like attention, Stu will leave. That likely has already been planned for...con men like easy marks and easy grafts, any decent one has an exit strategy going in. It doesn't take much to make them move on. (Advice from a skilled confidence guy. Handy people to know.)

Better still, take what you've got to the 5-oh and send Stu to visit some of the nicer correctional facilities of your state. A guy like that has a history, connect the dots and watch the cage fall into place.

[Hepburn]

34. You know, you must be a mind reader...

...Rho and I were discussing this and we were on the subject of letting him know what we know. Actually, we thought of using a mutal male friend to do this ~~ 4th degree black belt and no one to fool with AT ALL! Let Mr. 4th Degree Black Belt have a chat with Stu.

I see the danger in what you are saying and that is a concern. We are hoping that if he knows that he has been outed, he will turn tail and run. The LE person who ran this for me is checking out everything about him. I know he has problems because of not paying the court ordered spousal support to one of his ex wives. But I have not seen anything more than that.

I am so sorry about your Mom and her friend.

[mzteris]

60. I'd also be worried about the fact that

the bastard knows where YOU live! You cut off his "good thing" and he might retaliate.

[Deep13]

17. "You KNEW?! Why didn't you tell me before he got me pregnant?!"

Tell her.

[Hepburn]

19. She's 71 years old and there is a playpen left, but no nursery!

What concerns us is her pocket book ~~ she has some liquid funds from the sale of a house she owned for years and she sold when the market was at its peak. House was free and clear, in a good area, etc. So...that is why we are mega uptight. She thinks this guy is a financial genius.

[Born_A_Truman]

25. I would be very concerned for her if she confronts him ...

He sounds dangerous (driving by your home multiple times, etc). I lost someone who I thought was a good friend through a similar situation.

[Hepburn]

33. I am against her confronting him, too.

Right now she is having health problems and I think that it may be a possible excuse to dump him and be nice about it. Nothing personal...just too ill to continue ~~ that would work, IMO.

[Dappleganger]

40. It sounds as if there's a pretty good chance he may have

enough legal issues going on that a detective could be assigned to him already. We found that out about a group of people who were scamming my father, and it turned out that he wasn't the only victim so that when he went to court there was a whole bunch of them who testified against them.

[Hepburn]

43. OMG....

...glad you got them before they did a ton of harm and they got put away. How very sad.

Maybe it's the bad economy...but I swear there is more and more of this kind of fraud going on. I am waiting to see if there is more info on him coming. I have a bad feeling about him.

[Dappleganger]

47. Scammers have been around for centuries...

but I do think that there are more ways to trick someone out of their money and possessions these days (identity theft in particular). When we met up with the detective who was handling our father's case, he really gave us an eye-opening education on just how low these roaches will go.

[Deep13]

28. Gotcha. nt

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. You might bring print-outs of the dirt you found on him, too, assuming you have legal access to it

You mentioned that some of the info was obtained via a police friend, so you might not be able to disseminate that, but the stuff you googled or that is otherwise publicly findable - I'd bring that. If she wants to get angry and accuse you of being jealous/trying to run her life/trying to destroy her happiness etc (all of which, while irrational, she may very well do because she'll be upset and lash out at the first available targets, i.e., you and your friend), then you can show her the actual evidence. Even if she can convince herself that you're lying to her for whatever reason, it'll be harder for her to disbelieve her own eyes.

Ugh, situations like this are just terrible. I hope it goes well tomorrow - you and your friend are truly doing the right thing.

[Hepburn]

35. I've got the tax lien stuff printed and the NV corp docs with his real name...

...and address. I also found a picture of him on the internet ~~ with his real name captioned on the picture. This one is going to be hard for him to deny.

[grasswire]

30. does she have any family you can bring on as allies?

If she takes this badly and runs into his arms, family members might be able to apply some pressure to protect her assets.

Or maybe you know if she has a minister or a lawyer who might be involved?

Or maybe the senior residence where you all live has a social worker on staff?

[Hepburn]

37. Rho and I talked about that...

...what if she digs in her heels and defends him because of not wanting to lose face in front of her daughter? That seemed a real possibility and we discussed having the daughter there and we decided it was not a good idea.

[Dappleganger]

39. You may wish to re-think the daughter being involved...

Just saying this as my father got involved with a scam and he didn't want my sister and I to know, but we did find out and wished he had told us from the beginning so we could have helped to protect his assets better. Maybe you could not bring the daughter in unless your friend refuses to face facts, then notify the daughter of what you've discovered and then let the daughter take it from there.

There are so many sick scam artists out there, they seem to multiply like cockroaches. :(

[Hepburn]

44. What you said...

...is pretty much what Rho and I are thinking. I am hoping that she accepts the truth and gets the hell away from him. I do think, tho, if not, then her family needs to know to protect her from him.

[Dappleganger]

48. If it was my mother, I would be extremely grateful

for friends like you who want to protect her. ;)

[suninvited]

31. the sooner the better

those con artists do this for a reason, and that is money. He will already be planting the seeds to pull a scam on her.

I just hope you arent too late. Sometimes when they "borrow" money, they stress how important it is not to tell anybody about it with some crazy tale.

[Hepburn]

38. Yeah, we thought about that...

...and decided that when we got all the goods on him ~~ which was yesterday ~~ we would have to immediately tell her. She is busy today and usually the 3 of us do something every Friday ~~ so tomorrow's the day. We were concerned that if we did not have all the ducks in the row, she would find way too many reasonable explanations for the facts we have learned. There are just too many things that add up to "con artist" to let this slide.

[Redstone]

41. "Rat bastard?" I thought I was the only one who used that term. But if you

think he's one of THEM, feel free to burn him to your friend.

She'll thank you in the end, though she certainly won't in the short term.

Redstone

[Hepburn]

45. You sum it up well...

...that is about what I think is going to take place. She is going to be mad as hell...but once she sees all the facts, she will be glad he is out of her life.

[lunatica]

42. If you don't tell her then you're no friend of hers!

Tell her as soon as possible! She might fall right of love with him.

[Hepburn]

46. I don't kn ow if she is in love with him. but...

...she sure as heck is totally twitterpated. :hi:

[hippywife]

49. After reading all the posts to this point.

I agree that she must be told. It sounds like you are going out tomorrow for lunch. Is there anyway you can arrange to have lunch privately at one of your residences rather than in public? I'm just thinking that she is going to be very upset and embarrassed. Better not to have this during a public outing which would just make those feelings worse.

You mentioned that you'd really rather have her safe, and I would totally stress this to her, as well. And the thought that you were afraid that she would reject the two of you, but if that was the case, it would break your hearts but if her safety were compromised that would have broken your hearts even more.

Sounds like you will be as loving as possible, and as sensitive as possible to her feelings in your approach. You are indeed a good friend.


I wish you luck, I certainly don't envy any of the three of you. :hug:

[applegrove]

50. A psychopath was in my life and destroyed it. I talked to him in a bar and that

was all it took for him to try to destroy all my friendships and my life. Tell your friend. Tell your friend. Tell your friend. Even if your friendship doesn't survive you've tried to save her and that matters most. She deserves to know the truth. Tell her.

[LiberalAndProud]

51. Would you have listened?

I have had loved ones harmed in very real ways by a diagnosed sociopath. I didn't find out enough until too late, but I think the bilkee was too willing to believe the lies and too unwilling to listen to true facts until the damage was already done. My admonition to proceed with caution was truly ignored, at any rate.

[applegrove]

52. Of course I would have. And I even figured him out to be a sociopath and told

my friends and they were so enamoured by him that they didn't say "oh he's been asking to see all the letters you wrote me as a teen" or "he's been telling me every time you said something negative about living with me". I told them he was a psycho and they still didn't get it. The police didn't say that "oh he has been talking about you and we are investigating him for serious crimes". Nobody told me even after I had figured him out. I forgive them all even though they were in a position to warn me and didn't. I don't want any of them in my life. Shit happens. But warn people. Tell them.

I still say that if someone knows something about a psychopath they owe it to their friend to warn them no matter what.

[TorchTheWitch]

53. you actually need to ask?

Friends don't allow their friends to get shit on by con artists who may be even more dangerous than that. OF COURSE you tell her what you found out.

Friends are supposed to watch each others' backs particularly when they're doing something dangerously stupid.

[snagglepuss]

54. Dup. Self-delete.

[snagglepuss]

55. Tread carefully. I'm no expert but you might get sued for slander if your

friend repeats anything to the creepo.

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. But is it slander if they are sitting at the computer with her showing her the google returns???

[snagglepuss]

57. I think you have to proceed with caution. What if this is a case of mistaken identity?

I would tell a friend if I was in Hepburn's position but I wouldn't state anything as fact.

[GreenPartyVoter]

58. That seems like a reasonable approach.

[mzmolly]

61. You tell her what you

know, gently. Not saying anything, is not an option IMHO.

Best of luck!

[applegrove]

62. Please tell your friend. Please let us know you have done so.

[Lindsey]

63. I know it's a horrible situation but you MUST tell her. n/t