Job application advice - "list salary requirements"

[lizziegrace]

I can't really say what my salary requirements would be until I have a better idea of the job, day to day life, etc.

What phrase can I use when applying for a job that specifically asks for salary requirements that won't get my resume sent to the trash??

[raccoon]

1. Somebody told me once to put "Competitive" but I can't guarantee

that won't end you up in the circular file.

I hate it when they ask that.

[lizziegrace]

2. I hate it too

The whole compensation package comes into play. For me, medical insurance is extremely important and if it's a good plan, I might consider a lesser salary.

I'm too old for this. :-/

[LaurenG]

3. You need to put down your range and make it clear it is also negotiable.

You're worth every penny you ask for and I hope it goes well!

[PVnRT]

4. I usually just add about $5K or so to my current salary

More, if I'd have to move somewhere more expensive.

Otherwise, just try to find some numbers for average salary for the position you're going for and adjust as needed.

[lizziegrace]

9. I was laid off over a year ago

and salaries have plummeted. I have no idea what this position is worth. And it's not just the salary. The entire package is what I consider.

[HopeHoops]

5. If it is a classified ad, ignore it. If it is a paper application, write "open".

Put the ball back in their court. There is no number that will work to your advantage. If you shoot low to get a chance, you'll be stuck there. If you're too high, you're in the trash can. If an employer is interested in you as a candidate, they'll approach that subject in the interview and that's a good time to diplomatically dance around the issue until they throw out a number. If it is way off base, just say, "that's quite a bit lower than I was hoping for but I am open to considering it" or whatever language fits your personality.

The only reason that question is on the application is to get people to low-ball their requirement out of desperation. They ALREADY KNOW what salary range they have available for the position, but they'll be happy to rip you off for something lower.

[raccoon]

6. Great post. nt

[LaurenG]

7. It's going to depend on the interviewer. If I ask for salary I expect it

if it's not on there I don't play. I figure the applicant can't follow directions. I'd be careful with this advice.
If I get a range and they say negotiable I can work with that. I also know that I can either afford them or not which saves everyone a bunch of time.

[HopeHoops]

8. "open" and "negotiable" are close to equivalent, but not quite. The latter implies higher amount.

When I'm working with a standard application (as in one corporate insists on using and I can't modify), I simply ignore anything the applicants write in that section and deal with it in the interview. In constructing an ad, I never use the term "salary requirements". People aren't a fucking dollar amount. Experience, attitude, references, and general demeanor are the determining factors. Getting the interview in the first place is a matter of a resume that doesn't have "bullshit" written in big red letters all over it.

[LaurenG]

10. Well I am required to ask and if I ask I want the answer or I'm not calling you back.

I have to work within a budget, I don't have the choice. I am very generous and honest with all my employees and I expect honesty back. If I get an app without the info I have asked for I figure I'm dealing with a game player and again, I don't play.

They can find a job elsewhere.

[lizziegrace]

11. So I should put a range?

$40,000-60,000? If I do that, then they think they might be able to hire me at $40k. Can't live on that but I don't know what they've got budgeted. This is like buying a car. Only they know what it really costs and we dance around in negotiations. Bleh.

[LaurenG]

13. no - put down what you can live with - put a range though

like 55-60K willing to negotiate. That way they know you're open. We offer some great benefits, though the salary isn't the very best and they may have to pay you less yet have bene's that take up some of the slack and the negotiable part always makes potential employees more desirable.

I wish I could hire you, you're a great person. :loveya:

[lizziegrace]

14. Thanks

:hug:


:loveya:

[Gormy Cuss]

16. If you follow LaurenG's advice, the bottom of your range needs to be an amount you can live on.

There's no point listing a range below that. If they offer you the job at the lowball, they think that it's an acceptable salary and you'll stay on for at least a year. You on the other hand will resent the pay from day 1. It's a waste of time for both sides.

IMHO, I'd never offer up a range that broad either. If my floor salary requirement were 40K I'd offer a range of 45-55K dependent on the overall compensation package. That's a narrow enough range to show that I know my price but broad enough to give them room to negotiate without me feeling nickeled and dimed.

[Lucian]

19. If you want people to play, why not put in the range in your ad?

:shrug:

[LaurenG]

26. People who would apply for this position would already know

the range. I can't speak for other companies though.

[grace0418]

20. But if the company has a fixed budget for a position, isn't it game-playing to omit that

from the want ad? Wouldn't it waste less time all the way around to list the salary range right in the ad and avoid having people apply who require more than that?

[LaurenG]

25. It would be but companies don't normally do that..

I place an ad, get the resumes, do a phone interview and during that process discuss salary range. If the person is close to what I can afford I will tel them that their range sounds reasonable or if not I ask them if they would be willing to talk about it during a face to face, and this is after I've asked the basic questions about willingness to travel, familiarity with the job and certain skills they may have. I always try to get the person what they need but if they are way over my price range it's best to get that out of the way early.

[Chan790]

30. That's all fine and dandy...

except my current employer and my previous employer and the one before that where I was a manager...all explicitly circ-file anybody who doesn't put a number.

Edit: Not a range. A number. as in "I want $30,000." The stupid part is in all three cases, the number was set before the ad went out. No higher or lower. (Couldn't get much lower, we're talking around $10/hr. for any of the three jobs.

[HopeHoops]

32. When I'm interviewing, I would prefer simple honesty. "Circumstances dictate what's acceptable".

I'd rather have someone tell me they know they are underpaid right now and that's part of why they are looking elsewhere. I'd rather have them tell me the company isn't reasonable. The whole "put down a number" thing is ridiculous. I worked in Herndon, Virginia while my family lived in the Harrisburg, PA area. I kept a house in PA and a condo in Virginia and split my time between the two locations. The place in Virginia cost 150% of the one in PA because it is just fucking too expensive down there. Would I need the same salary for a job in PA with only one house to maintain? Hell no! Going lower is simple given the economic situation and my needs. If an application wants a "salary history" and I list it, that's going to rule me out as being in the "who the fuck is this guy trying to kid" department.

Basically, don't be upset if you never hear from a place because you didn't list a salary history or salary requirement. That's a big red flag to begin with and you're probably better off because of it. There are reasonable companies out there. The jobs are scarce, but the companies are there. If they're fishing for sunfish with Wonderbread dough balls, you really have to ask yourself if you want to be one of those fish. If desperation dictates it and you really want to put down a number, add 20% to what you make now and that will give you some wiggle room in the negotiation process.

[Deep13]

12. "I require a salary." Seriously, I hate those kinds of questions.

Guess what we're thinking. If you get it right, you get an interview.

I suppose the only thing you can really do is try to estimate what a reasonable salary would be. Maybe put a range with the qualification that it would depend on your level of responsibility.

[lizziegrace]

15. Yeah

If I get it right, I might get an interview. If I get it wrong, I'm in the trash. I have the degree and experience in every area listed on the job description. I could sit down and start working immediately, but for that one question. :-/

[grace0418]

24. To me it says a lot about the company.

And I know a lot of people are really needing jobs right now so they can't necessarily be too choosy. But I've been at too many absolutely miserable jobs and have without fail found that companies who pull that little "salary range" BS are either not paying very well, are not paying all their employees fairly, or are trying to see if they can get someone to come in even lower than the budget for that position, OR all of the above. They can't get you for a bargain price if they list the salary range in the ad, right? They'll also piss off long-term employees if they see the ad and realize that they're getting vastly underpaid for their work. So they let you try to figure out the right answer and maybe you'll be the winner. Ah, but if you throw it back in their faces by saying "negotiable" then you're a "game-player" and will be rejected.

[rocktivity]

17. Just put a range of the salary you'd like

Based on your location and industry standards, of course.

But if you as an employer aren't capable of putting a fair market salary range on a job, are you REALLY qualified to be filling it?

Jobs requiring a "salary history" I don't answer at all. I wouldn't tell my own mother doesn't know how much money I make--why should I tell anyone else?

:shrug:
rocktivity

[Xithras]

18. There's a simple reason why some employers ask this question. And why you should answer it.

I'm going to use software engineering as an example, because it's a field I know dearly.

I know programmers who will tell you that their skills are worth $120,000 a year. I know programmers who will tell you that their skills are worth $75,000 a year.

If you were an employer with a development position open, and you have $80k a year budgeted to hire a long-term perm employee for that slot, which would YOU hire? The one who would be thrilled to get the $80k? Or the one who will constantly be feeling underpaid, and who will likely keep looking for a higher paying job and bail the moment one comes along? Or would you hire the third who just listed "Competetive", with nothing else indicating how they'd feel about the salary? I know which I'd hire.

My suggestion, as someone who has sat on hiring committees, is that you do a little research and find out what the current average going rate is for that position, in the city you're looking to be hired in. If that amount is genuinely not enough for you, there is always the option of walking away later. Your best bet is to lowball your way in the door, get the interview, and then negotiate for a higher rate when an offer is actually made and you have a better idea what the job actually entails. If they really like you as a candidate, they'll probably be willing to discuss salaries with you.

[grace0418]

23. "If you were an employer with a development position open, and you have $80k a year budgeted..."

Why not list that range right in the ad and save everyone a lot of grief? You only interview candidates that are happy with that salary, you avoid the problem of having an employee thinking they are getting vastly underpaid, and you give a much better impression of your company as being one that is honest and pays fairly. Seems like a winning situation all the way around.

[Xithras]

27. Simple.

Sticking with my previous examples: There are many unemployed programmers who consider their skills to be worth $120,000 a year, who would take an $80k a year job just to escape unemployment. Unfortunately, the statement about them in my last post would still apply. More often than not, they would simply be taking the job as a "temporary" position, until something more in line with their desired pay scale came along.

An employer would rather hire someone who is actually happy to get their offered salary in the first place. Statistically, they'll be happier employees, they'll be more productive, and they'll stick around longer.

It's the age old discussion. You have one job. Two people apply for it. One doesn't particularly like the job, but needs the money and will do phenomenal work in the position. One considers it his dream job, and will do equally phenomenal work in the position. Which do you hire?

Generally speaking, employers don't just want to know whether you're capable of doing the job. They also want to know whether you'll be CONTENT doing the job, and whether you plan on sticking around a while. Looking at your salary requirements is a big part of that. If you need to make $75,000 a year to maintain your lifestyle, and the position only pays $60,000 a year, there's a pretty strong chance that you won't be sticking around very long.

[hedgehog]

28. What if someone replied, " like to make $60,000, but if

you twist my arm, I could force myself to accept a higher salary"?

[Xithras]

31. No idea. Wouldn't recommend it though.

Generally speaking, most companies will pay whatever the budgeted amount for the position is anyway. If a position has $80k a year budgeted, and you find a qualified applicant willing to do it for $60k, the typical company will pay the $80k. This is nearly ALWAYS true if the applicant is anything other than a white male, because the applicant will probably just get the difference back in later litigation anyway (it's virtually impossible to prove that there was no discrimination involved, so it's rare for a company to risk that kind of savings). Even if the applicant is a white male, underpaying an employee like that is a legal minefield.

Your line would probably merit a chuckle. Unless you're applying for a creative position, I generally suggest that people AVOID humor on resumes and applications.

[grace0418]

21. In my experience, any company that requires a salary range is just trying to see

how low a prospective employee is willing to go. Especially now with so many people out of work. Why not see just how desperate some people are, right?

I learned that lesson most harshly at my last company. The salary disparities (and yes, we talked about it, another "big no-no" that wouldn't be a problem if people were paid fairly) were absurd. It all depended on how well the person could manipulate the situation when they were being interviewed. One of the biggest manipulators I've ever met in my whole life (and one of the most dishonest, least trustworthy and laziest) was able to negotiate a sweet salary and cushy position all because she could manipulate well. She wasn't more qualified, didn't work harder and certainly wasn't worth her salary, but that little salary range game sure worked for her.

When I interviewed, they asked my salary range, then low-balled me. I told them I needed more, and that I would be willing to take the difference that insurance would cost them for me because I would be on my husband's insurance and therefore opting out. They claimed they couldn't do that because salary parity was too important for them. Then years later I found out what a joke that was.

I know people are desperate right now and don't blame them for giving into that question, but it pisses me off nonetheless. Companies expect "honesty" and "no game playing" from prospective employees but don't seem to hold themselves to that standard. They know exactly what they plan to pay the person they hire, but they're not going to tell you in order to see if you'll screw yourself into an even lower salary.

[pacalo]

22. Simply, "open".

[In_The_Wind]

29. I've actually said ~ Make me an offer.

We'll discuss it from there. It's worked.

:hi: Good Luck !

[HopeHoops]

33. Me too and it has worked out great.

It not only shows confidence in your value as an employee, but it throws the ball back into their court and gives you an easy way to diplomatically decline if their offer is just plain silly. In one case, I ended up way ahead by turning down the job - they came back with another offer that was a lot more than I expected in the first place. On the flip side, I've had to handle candidates who used that technique and every one of them who accepted proved to be an excellent employee. I lost a few that I really wanted because I was bounded by what the pencil-pushers would approve, but "them's the breaks".

[In_The_Wind]

38. Ya gotta believe in yourself and be willing to stick your neck out.

I've gotten both good and bad offers that way. Some were laughable.

Now I work for myself escorting oversize trucking loads. It's great seeing America and Canada at 15 mph. :rofl:


:hi:

[HopeHoops]

39. Well, at least it won't pass you by at that speed.

:hi:

[SOteric]

34. I usually just put the word "Negotiable" and leave out a range.

If the job weren't in my ballpark, I wouldn't apply for it. Before I start the negotiation, I do some research on the company and do a forecast to see how much I genuinely need to support myself and feed my nest egg.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

35. Several things....

'mid-range for this job and its responsibilities to start' or 'negotiable' or 'I'd rather discuss it after I have an offer'.............

[ThomCat]

36. If they are hiring through an agency,

You can ask if they that agency has placed anyone else in that company recently, or if they have placed anyone in similar positions recently, and if they can tell you approximately what salary those jobs agreed upon.

That can give you an idea what the current going rate is to ask for.

I hope you can find out something and get in there for an interview.

[begin_within]

37. I once read, "Always write 'Open'."

I'm no expert though. I think you can just write "Open" and then deal with numbers later on if you get to that point with them.

[HopeHoops]

40. That really is the best way of handling it, and I'm speaking from both sides of the table.