Alcoholism--a rant

[hyphenate]

A question: why are so many alcoholics so goddamned selfish? It's always about "me, me, me," and no one else. They act like martyrs when they're the ones who are acting like assholes, and if you don't immediately give in to their demands, too fucking bad...for you.

And even when you discount all of that emotional baggage, they track on a different one--the one where they act out like children because they never learned how to grow up and take on responsibility. Their level of maturity is about equal to the proof of their favorite libation.

I have reached the end of my tolerance level when it comes to these crybabies. And I wish I knew how to change things to make everything better, but that's just my inner child trying to smack me upside the head and know that, for the most part, the only solution is to get rid of them from your life. Wish I could.

[suninvited]

1. There are support groups for families of alcoholics

that help deal with dealing with them, understanding them and not enabling them. Sounds like it is something you could benefit from.

on edit: I meant to say, the groups are called Al-anon.

[hyphenate]

15. Yeah, many years ago, my mom and I went to a meeting,

and the people were nice. I'm now a continent away (relatively speaking, I'm on the east coast, they're on the west coast. If the circumstances were such that it was around me, I would definitely seek out a group.

Right now, it's pure frustration at the heart of it.

[Kire]

30. there are meetings on the East Coast

If you'd like to find others who are learning how to detach from the Alcoholics in their lives, there are many ways to find Alanon meetings

[mopinko]

2. i hear ya.

mine passed on a long time ago. but it is awful to deal with. my mom struggled so. she just couldn't bear to leave my dad to his own devises. she knew he would end up dead in the gutter, and she couldn't stand having that on her conscience.

[hyphenate]

18. My dad was also an alcoholic

and my mom always was an enabler. That's why it's so hard to see my sister falling into that trap, which is the whole problem.

Getting that addiction gene is something ingrained, but it's so frustrating to deal with it.

[seabeyond]

3. i let brother go about 5 yrs ago, emotionally and financially. i hear

with the alcoholic, they stopped the maturing process at a very young age. skipped whole decades of growing.

i love brother dearly. i listen when he calls. but it isn't often. always for something. i only do what i am comfortable with. almost never money anymore.

sorry for people that live with this

i no longer hope he will stop. at 50, i cannot imagine him living a day without booze. i cannot fathom the possibility he can do without.

[Angry Dragon]

17. There is always hope

I have a brother that just went through treatment at Salvation Army. He is 53 and drank from the time he was in high school.
He was in about 9 months. He is out now living in a, we will call it a recovery house vs halfway house. He is doing good.
So there is always hope. It seems they have to hit bottom before they can decide which way to go. It comes down to a life or death situation.

[hyphenate]

22. They don't always do so well, though

The person who used to mind my mom swore he would drink to the day he died, and sure enough, at the age of 43 he died. My sister's already had her best friend die from cirrhosis, but she doesn't "get it." She does have a lot on her mind, but if she were sober, she might be able to deal with things batter. It's the liquor that is tainting her mind, and creating friction.

[seabeyond]

23. wow. hm. that is something. well,

if only. how many bottoms, how many times. good for your brother. a hug to him.

[hyphenate]

21. It never stops

I've just gotten to a point where it's a no-win scenario, and the one who is losing the most is my mom.

[seabeyond]

24. ya. nt

[blue neen]

4. You wouldn't believe what I went through with my ex-boss.

It's been devastating and will probably take years for me to recover.

You are so correct when you say that they act like children because they never learned to grow up.

I now realize what a junkie he is...and he's now in the end-stages of alcoholism. It's a very sad story for his children.

[hyphenate]

25. I never had to deal with an alcoholic boss

But I can imagine it to some degree. It's kind of like getting smothered, I would guess. They know that you know, but they also know that they have the power to fire you if you said anything. Not a good place to be in--whichever way you look at it.

[Avalux]

5. It's very sad and there's nothing you can do about it.

I had to come to that realization...I can't recall very many times my ex and I were together that alcohol wasn't at the center of our plans. Anywhere we went was always about getting drunk, not just drunk but embarrassingly stupid, falling down, hurt himself drunk.

I spent a lot of time and energy thinking I could help him somehow - if I loved him enough maybe he'd suddenly have an epiphany. Foolish of me to believe that and it came at my own expense.

My ex is a good person but emotionally, he is a child. He is unable to see the consequences of his actions and ends up hurting those around him, especially those who care about him most. Alcohol is #1 on his priority list above his children and loved ones and always will be.

[hyphenate]

26. One of the way many alcoholics deal

is to make sure that they have someone to blame for everything that has ever happened to them. For example, It was the other driver's fault for the accident; it was his father's fault for beating him, it was his fraternity's fault for providing the liquor in the first place, etc.

Back in the day when I entertained, like at a New Year's party, I remember I used to provide floor space and beds for any friend who drank a lot. There were only a couple, but I had first hand experience at what happened with drunk drivers--my brother was 17 when he suffered massive brain damage from an auto crash where he was a passenger. The driver was underaged, drank a bottle of vodka and drove right straight into a horrible accident. The driver was decapitated, and every passenger suffered to some etent. My btother is 51 now, and has lived most of his life witn the mental capacity of a child, an emotional age of about 5.

So yeah--I try to tell people who are drinking a lot to slow down and sober up, but very few listen to reason.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. It is the nature of alcoholism (and any addiction) to be inherently a selfish act.

That's part of the sickness. Unfortunate, but true.

[blue neen]

8. It is a very selfish act.

It always makes me wonder, though. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Does the alcholism cause the total childish self-centeredness or vice versa?

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. It just becomes one toxic, poisonous, vicious cycle...a tornado that sweeps in its victims who have a helluva time escaping the vortex.

[sarge43]

9. Whatever the addiction, all you want to do is feed the beast.

Everything and everyone, including yourself, takes a distance second.

[hyphenate]

27. Yeah, I know

but it helps to get all the frustration out every now and then. And it being the holidays, it's at a fever pitch to rant a little extra on the subject. Thankfully, DU once again comes through for me!

[pintobean]

7. I quit drinking 20 years ago.

I think the biggest mistake for recovery is the claim that it is a disease. That may, or may not, be true, but it gives the alcoholic the excuse of being the victim. The real victims of my reckless behavior were the people that I love. Once I wrapped my mind around that, quitting became possible.

I wish you the best.

[hyphenate]

28. Thanks

I think, from what I've read, is that it's not specifically alcoholism which is a disease, but the capability of addiction to something, whether it's alcohol, drugs, or something else. My mom was also a heavy drinker when I was younger, but she gave it up around the same time I started. I drank to get drunk the few times I decided to do so. I hate the taste of alcohol, so there was never any desire to drink more than the times that I did. And I never left the place I was drinking in, because it was usually my own place. But it's been over 25 years since I last imbibed more than 1 drink, and even at that, it's a cocktail that masks the taste of the alcohol.

[Iggo]

10. Yeah! Fuck those motherfuckers!

Oh, wait a minute...

I'm late for my meeting.

[hyphenate]

29. lol!

I've known too many people who are intelligent enough to know the consequences of drinking, but most of the alcholics continue to drink anyhow.

My sister's best friend just died in March, at the age of 50, from cirrhosis. It's a fact that my sister knows about, but can't do anything for herself. She can go for days, sometimes weeks between drinking binges, but she invents a reason to drink again at some point.

And my sister is one helliva denier. You try to talk to her about anything significant, and she waves you away. She refuses to brooch any subject which makes her uncomfortable. I'm the one who sees a doctor for depression and stress, but sister won't even acknowledge that she has any problem. One of my doctors in LA told me I was the most normal one in a dyfunctional family, and it's pretty much true. But I think it's true of most families, and I find those who claim otherwise are either lying, or are in deep denial.

[pitohui]

11. sickness makes people selfish

i don't know what else to tell you, it's the same as depression or any other severe, chronic disease-- the victim gets more and more selfish because so much of their life is struggling with the disease

i know what you're talking about, i had to drop a close friend because he used his status as a dry drunk/recovering alcoholic as an excuse to rob me blind and i just couldn't afford to put up w. it -- i was both a victim of a chronic illness myself, had no health insurance, and unemployable, struggling to put together a business, and he was boldly stealing my supplies!!!

it's frustrating because many alcoholics are bright intelligent people and there's definitely an attractive spark in there...but disease eats people's character and makes them unattractive and hard to deal with

do what you have to do to save yourself

[MrsBrady]

12. try al-anon

it's free

and the only requirement is that there be a friend or relative who has a problem with alcohol.

[nolabear]

13. There is one other solution.

Refuse to be held hostage by the behavior. Alcoholism is a "comorbid disorder" meaning it goes hand in hand with something else. That something is usually a conviction that something in life is too painful to bear, and that the world, and you, exist mainly to keep the pain away, whether it's cooperating with the addictive behavior or providing yet another distraction. Living your own life well, having some sympathy for the histrionics, the irresponsibility, the tantrum-throwing that poses as fragility and incapacity, etc. but doing NOTHING to play into the behaviors, even if it does mean getting out of physical or emotional harm's way yourself, is the only way to deal. An addict believes that love and enabling are one and the same. They are not.

I agree with the advice to try al-anon. You'll find that things you are being told is true by your alcoholic loved one are not, and that it's all right to let them sink or swim while you support the swimming and do not support the sinking bahaviors.

Good luck. It's hard as hell and you need a healthy form of support yourself.

[Broken_Hero]

14. I hear, and understand the frustration....

had a friend who went through it, it was a very narcissistic experience(on his part). My wife and I tried everything we could, he had two kids, but the alcohol was too powerful for him...he ended up getting over five DUI's and spending a year in prison, and from what I can tell he still is gripped by the juice. We've cut him off two years back, both financially and emotionally...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. addiction makes one very one-tracked, its not just that an addict is selfish

about the needs of others, they are usually unable to take care of their own non-alcohol/addiction related needs either.

[rbnyc]

19. Yeah.

If you can't get rid of them, support is a good idea. Don't let them make you crazy. It's okay to draw lines.

[zanana1]

20. All those things in your rant are...

symptoms of alcoholism. That's just what alcoholism IS. After a person sobers up, they usually grow up pretty quickly. Some don't.

[DemocratAholic]

31. you'll never really know

first of all, if you ever expect to have a "normal" relationship with an alcoholic, forget about it. never gonna happen as long as they are drinking. if someone is an alcoholic, their life revolves around the alcohol and that is the most important thing in their life.

another thing about living with people who are alcoholic is you can never be certain...is it the alcohol that is causing them to act that way, or is that just the way they are? if you are living with someone who seems quite selfish, i wouldn't be so quick to assume it's because of the alcohol. but you'll never really know, will you, as long as they are still drinking?

i can't stress this enough, alcoholism is a terribly destructive disease, and the saddest thing about it is that it affects people around the alcoholic worse than the alcoholic him/herself. they are drunk, and are usually oblivious to the effect it is having on themselves, and totally oblivious to the effect on people around them.

i don't know what your relationship is to this alcoholic. in my particular circumstance i can tell you the only way i could heal from it was to remove myself from them completely. the fact that you are complaining about this seems to me like you are in a dysfunctional relationship with an alcoholic. if you think it is possible to make sense out of something like that, you couldn't be more wrong. there is no answer to the question you are asking. the question is misplaced. you are trying to make sense out of something that can not make sense.

when you say, "wish i could," boy do i understand that. i grew up with an alcoholic father...the most awful childhood you can possibly imagine. i could tell you stories you wouldn't believe. i was trapped in a house with him for 18 years. i don't even live with him anymore, i don't speak to him, but he still manages to do things to hurt me. most recently, he stole money from me my uncle left in an inheritance...and managed to get me into trouble with the IRS. very long story i won't get into it. but believe me, i understand about alcoholism and selfishness. i don't know if it is related, but like i said, you'll never really know.

baby steps, one step at a time. first thing, get yourself to a psychotherapist. personally, i am not too high on the 12 step programs. i know a lot of people think they are great, just my personal opinion, the one-on-one therapy was what helped me. i don't know if you are "trapped" as i was, if this is a relative, or you are staying by choice. whatever it is, believe me, your life can only get better by talking to a qualified therapist about it. but you have to make that first step.

i don't mean to sound insensitive, i totally empathize, but complaining about it isn't going to change anything, or make you feel any better. you better recognize, you are part of the disease as much as the alcoholic. this is a very common thing that people in dysfunctional, co-dependent relationships with alcoholics do...they complain about the alcoholic. my mother used to do that all the time...complain about my father and his drinking. meanwhile, she never did a damn thing to change it, and subjected her children to a horrible childhood. she also became a very bitter, violent, selfish person herself. i blame her as much as i blame my father.

again, i don't mean to sound insensitive, but if you choose not to do something to change the situation, then you have no one to blame but yourself. take responsibility for your own life. easier said then done, i know. but many people do it. it can be done. and you don't have to go through it alone. it was totally amazing to me how knowledgeable psychotherapists are about alcoholism, and very understanding, and sensitive, and patient.

[Skittles]

32. awesome post, and sound advice

it's amazing that some of the most thoughtful and wise people were raised by alcoholics

[kimi]

34. Yes, this makes eminent sense

I grew up in a family where alcohol was the be-all and end-all. It ended, all right. I had issues myself with substance abuse later in my life - I do definitely believe that there is a genetic component to alcoholism. We all struggle with issues throughout our lives -- being cursed with the genes that make this more possible - it f&*king sucks.

I'm sorry that you went through this, and I don't think you sound insensitive.

Responsibility is a great thing. Some folks need to learn how to take it. And therapy -- don't know where I'd be without it.

[DemocratAholic]

36. children of alcoholics

you bring up a very important subject, the statistics are clear and staggering...if you come from a home where there is an alcoholic (or any substance abuser), your chances of becoming an alcoholic (or substance abuser) are substantially increased. it is unbelievable to children who are growing up with an alcoholic because they witness its destructiveness firsthand, and they grow up thinking...their lives are going to change drastically once they get away from the alcoholic. i read a book called 'It Will Never Happen to Me!' Children of Alcoholics: As Youngsters - Adolescents - Adults by Claudia Black...WOW, hit me like a brick wall. i finally connected with emotions i had been feeling my entire life and never understood. i realized i was not alone...the pain, denial, guilt, shame, embarrassment, the feeling of being different from everyone else, trying to hide and cover up the alcoholic's behavior, my own alcohol abuse... it was the first step towards recovery...identifying and connecting with those emotions. unfortunately, the disease doesn't stop affecting children because they move away. anyone reading this...if you have alcoholism in your life, i can't recommend it enough. very short and easy read. one of the comments about this book on Amazon said, "It was like she was in the house I grew up in." i couldn't say it any better. it's hard to believe when you grow up with that insanity, but there are countless numbers of us and our experiences are eerily similar.

on a positive note, some of the most wonderful people i have ever met in my life are people who are recovering from experiences like this. their insight, sensitivity, empathy, sense of humor...is amazing. we can sit around and laugh and cry, we share a common experience...suffering, dare i say...perhaps has even made us "better" people.

[Pool Hall Ace]

33. I'm married to an active alcoholic.

And I totally hear ya. He sits around and drinks all day and has the nerve to call *me* a princess who doesn't contribute anything.

I've cut him off financially, taking more than one job and opening my own bank account so I can keep the bills paid. If he wants to piss away money on booze, he will have to find a job.

In the mean time, I try to stay as busy as possible working and just hanging out with kind, decent, normal people. Listening to the verbal abuse that my husband doles out becomes tiresome; it's amazing how much the simplest kindness from someone else can just make my day.

[kimi]

35. Hey, take care

Sounds like my life in my 20's. (Which was back in the Mesozoic Era, but never mind that.)

Srsly. Take care. There is help, and there are folks who care. Lots of us have been through it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

37. Selfishness in the extreme is a main characteristic of the alcoholic

as described in the AA Big Book. The solution to that and the other problems is a lifestyle of unselfishness and service.

Suffice to say, it works to the extent the individual is willing to enact it, and maintain it.

Also, alcoholism is the only disease people yell at you for having. :rofl:

[K8-EEE]

38. My dad is the most giving person in the world but when he was drinking

he was a selfish a-hole too. Any addict pushes everything but the addiction to the back of the line. That's part of the nature of the disease.

What you do, you go to Al-Anon, meet a lot of nice people in the same boat, and get some coping strategies. Whether you decide to get the person out of your life or include them with boundries you can deal with, you will get lots of help and advice from people who KNOW!!