An extra-special, 3 days early Christmas present from one of my clients! EXTRA-special!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Got this email this morning before I had my first cup of coffee:

Hello (My Real Name),
Hope all is well with you. Could you please let me know what the Username and Password is so the new Menu can be downloaded to the Website.
Happy Holiday!
Thanks,
(My Client)

So:

A competitor re-designed her menus, but you don't "download menus to the Website"...you upload them...and if it is the competitor's intention to upload PDFs of the menus, it will wipe out the text menus I've built. And as clients will sometimes do, she tells me about this after the work has already been completed. It was never discussed with me...I never had a chance to bid on it.

I also don't know if they re-designed the menus, the Website, or both...and if they stole any of my photos in the process. The last time this happened the competitor stole several of the photos I'd taken, the Flash application I'd built to display them, and ALL of the text I'd written. It was like all of my content had been placed into a shitty template thrown together by these Silicon Valley guys who "specialize" in restaurant Websites, and every site they spit out looks like EVERY OTHER ONE of their sites.

Clients think that when they pay for a Website, which includes multiple photo shoots, they "own" everything and can do with it as they wish...including handing it off to one of my direct competitors so they can present my work as their own. They fail to read the fucking contract they signed, and even if they did, they pull this stuff ANYWAY.

And the reality is that currently I have neither the time nor the financial resources to go after this client, even if she screwed me over. I have to just let it go and allow Karma to catch up with her later.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Phentex]

1. In laymen's terms?....

Look, I can't even post a picture here so that's why I'm asking.

Does this mean they can't do what they are telling you they are going to do? Will they wipe out their website? Did you respond?

Is this good or bad for you?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

3. It's like this...

1). I built this restaurant's website a year ago, almost to the day.

2). The client is asking for the User ID and Password to the site because either she approached one of my competitors, or they approached her, and they did one of two things. They re-designed her menus or they re-designed her menus AND the Website.

3). By asking for the User ID and Password for the Website, the competitor will either monkey with my Website files or wipe them out completely, to be replaced with theirs.

4). So my client did business with a competitor, didn't even have a conversation with me before doing so (and I acknowledge she was under no obligation to do so), so I may have lost a client, and the competitor may have stolen some or all of my work in the process. I won't know until the client responds to my email and tells me exactly what has happened. At minimum, it's not good, because a competitor has successfully dipped their beak into my client's pond, so to speak. If they haven't re-designed the website yet, to squeeze me out, they probably will attempt it, now that they've done some work for the client.

[Phentex]

5. Well that sucks!...

Can't you give them the wrong password? :evilgrin:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

7. Well, I could, but...

:rofl:

:toast:

[LiberalAndProud]

2. It's the why of it that keeps me wondering.

When clients take a hike, the lack of an explanation makes me crazy. What about our service did you find unsatisfactory? Hmmmm?

It feels like a kick in the gut, at any rate, so I'll send sympathetic vibes in your direction and hope a new client arrives soon to fill the void.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. Thanks, much appreciated.

You're right, because in terms of money, there have been no site updates, so no money, since I built the site a year ago. It's not a financial loss, it's a gut-punch of betrayal, and I am being perfectly honest in saying I did nothing to deserve it. This Website was used to sell another major restaurant account several months later, so it was a quality product. And you're right a second time, because I have to let this go and set my sights on the new client who will fill the void.

:toast:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. My dear Amerigo Vespucci...

Oh, sweetie...

How can people be so traitorous???

This is horrifying.

FUCK her, and not in a good way.

Things must get better for you, and shortly.

:hug:

[GalleryGod]

I Agree with Peggy's Sentiments!

I know lots about "gut punches" lately, too!
:hug:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

13. So we'll send each other good vibes for fewer gut-punches in 2011, OK?

:hi:

[GalleryGod]

26. Agreed!

:pals: :fistbump:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

8. Thanks, CP...I emailed my sister, and here's her reply:

All I can do is shake my head. I wish an angel would shower you with magic glitter or something. Sometimes people suck, and I mean REALLY suck. I just can't help believing that God gives those who try to do the right thing, a little nudge sometimes. Be on the lookout for the nudge, cause you never know when it will happen or what it will look like. I'll be waiting for the letter that begins like this:

Hey Donna,
GUESS WHAT!!? YIPPEE! You'll never guess...............

It'll get better.

So I think it all begins with looking inside and examining our own heart, and I have no regrets. I just have to hang on and wait for the wheel to turn, as it must eventually. I just hope there are no more "Christmas presents" between now and the first of the year.

:rofl:

:toast:

[GalleryGod]

9. Love this! I Agree.

"So I think it all begins with looking inside and examining our own heart, and I have no regrets. I just have to hang on and wait for the wheel to turn, as it must eventually"
:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. There had better not be any more "Christmas presents"!

The wheel will turn........and I hope it runs over her!

Grrr.

Merry Christmas, my dear friend...

:hug:

[HopeHoops]

11. Username: 2TellU4Now Password: 4kU&UpYrs

[Amerigo Vespucci]

12. EXCELLENT!

Reminds me of the old Star Wars satire short "Hardware Wars" and the droids, 4Q2 and Artie Deco.

:rofl:

:toast:

[HopeHoops]

14. Ah yes. I just happen to have the link to that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7p96aiE32k&feature=related (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UVVBctvylU&feature=related (part 2)

I love the wookie eating the bun on Princess whats-her-name's head.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

18. The classics never die...

...thanks for posting!

:toast:

[HopeHoops]

25. Old geeks never die...

...The just put in another quarter.

I just made that up! :woohoo:

[Duer 157099]

15. If I were you...

The first thing I'd attempt is a reply like "It would be better if you sent me the files (menu) to be added to the site so that I can put them in in such a way as to not disrupt any other of the site's functions" or something like that to communicate the possibility that the site can fall apart easily if someone else mucks with it (which is probably a real liklihood).

Then you add the content and remain in control. Right?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

19. You're right...

...I'm waiting for a reply so that she can tell me exactly what this person plans to do. And of it involves monkeying around with my files (and I'm guessing that's exactly what's going to happen), I've already planned a response very similar to what you've suggested.

The thing is, you tell them that and they don't care. I did a talk at a local Rotary club, and afterward, someone in the group approached me and asked me to redesign their site. He asked "Is there any way for you to work with my Web guy?" I said no, because part of my compensation is presenting the finished result as my work in order to solicit new business.

I took a look at his "guy's" work. It was like someone took a plain text MS Word document...no graphics at all...and uploaded it to the Web.

So a few months ago...a little over a year since the time I redesigned his site...he emails me and it's the same thing as today, "can I have my User ID and password..."

So I sent an email almost identical to what you posted here, and he said "I'd be more comfortable working with my guy."

Now, this guy is an uptight, unpleasant little man, so I weighed the pros and cons of attempting to persuade him further and decided "not worth fighting for." I haven;t looked at the site since his "guy" got his hooks into it. I don't plan to.

Some people in life...once they've made up their mind...won't listen to reason. They've mentally purchased a bill of goods. They want what they want and unless you give it to them, they see you as an antagonist. At that point, unless you have the time and money to do battle with them, you say a polite "goodbye" and move on to better clients.

[Brickbat]

16. Gah. You have my sympathies and empathies.

I'm in arbitration right now with a client who is mad because I didn't do work that wasn't requested. That's just what I want right before Christmas: arbitration hearings.

Here's hoping to a lucrative 2011 for you! :toast:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

21. I was in Small Claims Court last Friday for the same reason.

Short version is the client LIED (I had it all in writing and brought a ONE INCH THICK stack of documents to court, separated by eight binder tabs and a one-page introductory note at each tab...three copies...one for me, one for the client, one for the judge).

(This is a different client, not the one in my O.P.)

That's why this morning's events hit me a little harder than they would under different circumstances. There were some people in the last two years that I SHOULD NOT have done business with. The economy made it hard to refuse ANY work, although...in hindsight, which is worthless...there were some clients I should have avoided like the plague.

[Brickbat]

22. Oh, I'm so sorry!

It's a terrible sinking feeling to realize you're wrapped up with a client you never should have taken on...but I know, it's hard to turn anything down.

[RandomThoughts]

17. There is a presumption on that stuff.

That is thinking that there is some power in a declaration like that.

Because someone says something, that they 'own' something, does not make it true. Some web site does not own the ideas I post, nor do I even own them, nor would I want to. They are shared thoughts from many people over much of time. The ideas that are better are said in many places by many people.



The contract only has value if the concept is credible. Think of it like a law ruled unconstitutional removing all concepts of ownership of people, thoughts, or ideas. I like to think of it that way.



And when I think of people taking my thoughts to use for their own purposes, I think of the Henry V speech. However those that use the claim of ownership can set up a metaphorical hostage situation, then there is work to be done. And the muzzle flashes can help with that. Since if they think that way, they have thought that way before, and in rolls the Trojan horse, or something like that.


Side note, most people don't know fighting is not fighting, since if you fight, you become like those you fight, and are not really fighting but joining.

(Side Side note, 'posting on a web page' just as an example, not a presumption of DU actions.)

[Moondog]

20. There's no sugar-coating that one. It sucks. My sympathies.

:(

[Auggie]

23. As a freelance designer I concur... it sucks.

Hopefully this is rare ... client X out of how many dozens? Shucks, I've been thrown out of meetings, ignored, humiliated, insulted and bullied by clients. But I've also been thanked, lauded and respected --- much more often than the former.

You're right -- Karma will catch up with this moron. Here's to a rockin' 2011.

:toast:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

24. It is rare...I've had maybe a half-dozen bad clients in 10 years

The bad ones were really bad...but overall, most of my clients see my enthusiasm and commitment reflected in the final product and appreciate it. Just last week I finished a site and the client wrote "Thank you so much for doing a wonderful job...we are all very pleased with the new web site."

So you take a deep breath when you tangle with a bad one and keep moving forward.

:toast:

[baldguy]

27. Why not reply "No, I won't give out the username & password."

If they're talking to your competitor, let them start from scratch. Or quote them a (steep) price for the rights to alter your work.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

28. She has Web hosting from Network Solutions

So she can just pick up the phone and get it herself, which is what I (politely) told her to do, with instructions, because this competitor asked her to EMAIL THE ID & PASSWORD, and anyone with half a brain knows that ANY email can be hacked / intercepted in transit by even an "entry level" hacker.

I'm going to wait to see how she replies, but if this person helped themselves to my work...ESPECIALLY the food photos (many of which I posted on DU the day I shot them), we WILL speak.